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Johnathan Joseph a TEXAN! (Cut March 11, 2020)

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Now all of a sudden people are trying to question whether Joseph is better than Nnamdi?? Man, this place is amazing at times. Lol!
We are signing him for the future, not the past. Joseph is certainly inferior to Nnamdi as a press corner.

However, here are some significant pros (in addition to being less costly):

1. almost 3 years younger
2. proven to be proficient in all coverages: man, press man, and zone coverages
3. appears to have superior ball skills
 

keyser

Veteran
I'm glad the Texans ended up getting a top CB. We needed one, and from what I understand JJ is good. I'll say that I'm disappointed that we didn't get Aso (though that disappointment might go away if he has ends up with some outrageously high contract, or be even more disappointed if he ends up with a small one), but it sounds like the front office went all out to do what they could to help us improve. I really hope that JJ is as close to Aso as people are saying (I felt I knew what we'd be getting with Aso, but I don't know much at all about JJ).

As far as this, though:
From Adam Schefter, interesting stats:
Interesting stats... RT @KCJoynerTFS: Joseph has a better 2-yr YPA than Asomugha on nearly 3 times as many targets.
I'm a bit confused - if I read this right, it means that JJ was thrown at 3 times as often as Aso. If so, that's not a good thing. It means that JJ was leaving his receiver open enough that the QB felt the receiver would be a good target. Lower YPA is good, but even better is to not get thrown at at all. If you're giving up 5 YPA (I don't know what JJ was), but getting targeted every down, the other team can just march down the field.

I remember one point where Deion Sanders was getting criticized by some people who didn't know better on some statistical basis - he had too few interceptions or something. But, the thing was, he was hardly ever being thrown at - it was a time when he was really shutting down half the field. A true shutdown corner might have few INTs, and even possibly a not-good-looking YPA.
 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
Saban also coached Kareem "NFL Ready" Jackson. Maybe Saban is just a little overrated in developing defensive backs.

Anyway, glad that the Texans are no longer wearing a bag over their head in the offseason. Building through the draft is great. If you're great at the draft. If you're so-so, you better hit the free agent market. They did that, so you have to give them a :fans:.
Yea, in college. Is there a difference between receiving good coaching while playing in the NFL and receiving good coaching while playing in college? Hell yes. There is a huge difference. Is Saban supposed to have developed K Jax to his maximum potential in college? No, that is never the case, players need to continue to receive good coaching and direction.

Saban tried to work with Allen at two positions. He sucked at both.

And to everyone that says Allen was let go by Miami bc he failed at safety have zero critical thinking skills. Nobody gets cut cause they can play corner but suck at safety. No team is dumb enough to say, "we need a safety but this kid is only good at corner. In fact he is real good at corner. Too bad he can't play safety, he has no value to us." That's crazy talk.

I'll bet anyone 50 bucks that K Jax plays much better than Allen at corner next year. Much better.
 

Joe Texan

Inducted 04
All I can say is this is why I dig the way the Texans do it while you yahoos sit on the couch and watch with me. We are building a champion and that takes time
 
As far as this, though:

I'm a bit confused - if I read this right, it means that JJ was thrown at 3 times as often as Aso. If so, that's not a good thing. It means that JJ was leaving his receiver open enough that the QB felt the receiver would be a good target. Lower YPA is good, but even better is to not get thrown at at all. If you're giving up 5 YPA (I don't know what JJ was), but getting targeted every down, the other team can just march down the field.

I remember one point where Deion Sanders was getting criticized by some people who didn't know better on some statistical basis - he had too few interceptions or something. But, the thing was, he was hardly ever being thrown at - it was a time when he was really shutting down half the field. A true shutdown corner might have few INTs, and even possibly a not-good-looking YPA.
It was either throw at him, or Leon Hall. Either way, it was bad. So teams chose JJ.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
We are signing him for the future, not the past. Joseph is certainly inferior to Nnamdi as a press corner.

However, here are some significant pros (in addition to being less costly):

1. almost 3 years younger
2. proven to be proficient in all coverages: man, press man, and zone coverages
3. appears to have superior ball skills
That doesn't make him a better signing than Nnamdi would have been. You can try to rationalize it in all these little forced positive ways all you want, but Nnamdi is most likely a HOF CB. HE shuts down elite guys like AJ even without a good pass rush to help him. The guy is incredible. Joseph was a good signing and I'm happy about it, but stop kidding yourself.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Not from this particular thread Tex, but are you still believing this? I think you posted it less than 24 hours ago :spin:
I like these signings. This is the best off season I've seen from the Smithiak era. I'm surprised they got Joseph and Manning that quickly together.
 

Wolf

100% Texan
SPN's Adam Schefter reported early Thursday evening that the Texans reached a contract agreement with free agent cornerback Johnathan Joseph, formerly of the Bengals.

Mark Berman of Fox 26 Sports in Houston followed up with a report that Joseph received a five year deal worth $48.75 million, including $23.5 guaranteed and a $12.5 million signing bonus.

Joseph was considered by many to be next in line after Nnamdi Asomugha on the most desired free agent corner list.

The signing of Joseph (age 27), presumably at a lower price than what the 30 year old Asomugha would have cost the Texans, should free up space for the team to sign a free agent safety which remains a need in Wade Phillips' 3-4 defense revitalization project in Houston.

Before everyone freaks out because the Texans didn't break the bank on 'the' name guy, consider this:

Joseph has a better yards per pass attempt defended average than Asomugha over the past two years on nearly 3 times as many targets. (KC Joyner - TheFootballScientist.com)
And just two short years ago, James Walker writing for ESPN, said that Joseph and Leon Hall were among the best cornerback duos in the league.

Joseph doesn't come without risk. He's been bothered by foot and ankle injuries during two of the past three seasons missing eight games in 2008 and four games in 2010.

An interesting coincidence is that Joseph attended college at South Carolina, as did Dunta Robinson. Joseph's agent is Jason Chayut, who also happens to represent Robinson.

One big difference between Joseph and Robinson, however, is that Joseph won't have to write 'Pay me Rick' on his shoes as Joseph got the guaranteed money that Robinson reportedly turned down.

Also worth a read >>>: "It's time for the Texans and Robinson to kiss and make up," This is that article that, much to my surprise, prompted Joseph and Robinson's agent to contact me.
http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/texans-get-their-corner
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
It about two weeks we'll find out what's what. Until then, it's just speculation as usual. And even that first pre-season game won't really tell us much, other than what the team looks like after a small amout of practice.

And like the kid that keeps getting his candy taken away I'm not jumping on any bandwagons yet. I'm just hopeful that someday I'll get that candy.
 

False Start

On # 69
The Texan haters are out in full force today on the radio, knocking the JJ signing. They are of course knocking the Texans for being cheap for not signing Nnamdi. Some people are never satisfied. :slap:
 
The Texan haters are out in full force today on the radio, knocking the JJ signing. They are of course knocking the Texans for being cheap for not signing Nnamdi. Some people are never satisfied. :slap:
But I got rail roaded for saying this fan base sucks ass. A lot of people in this city are critical as hell for no reason.
 

DX-TEX

#TomSavageDontCare
The Texan haters are out in full force today on the radio, knocking the JJ signing. They are of course knocking the Texans for being cheap for not signing Nnamdi. Some people are never satisfied. :slap:
Fans in this town are just not really knowledgeable. Remember this is thr group that still wants to replace Schaub with Young.
 

Mr. White

H-Town Beatdown
But I got rail roaded for saying this fan base sucks ass. A lot of people in this city are critical as hell for no reason.
Maybe you should clarify "sucks ass," because you've been saying it since last season.

What does it mean? How do you define "sucks ass?"

What's your frame of reference? How do you know that our fan base sucks ass anymore than any other fan base?

Is there an "Ass Suck Meter?"
 

Wolf

100% Texan
Gotta be his agent spreading this. No way in hell we have the money.
he is going to be a jet so his agent knows he needs to get the most money and it his his last big contract .. no way houston has the money for it
 

Mr. White

H-Town Beatdown
he is going to be a jet so his agent knows he needs to get the most money and it his his last big contract .. no way houston has the money for it
Yup. This defies all common sense.

Not to mention, we're still talking about Bob McNair and Rick Smith. Their heads were probably about to explode with the Manning signing....they're not used to making this much of an impact in free agency.
 
KickASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Hats off to Rick Smith and Company......great job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am so freakin happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was getting worried we were not going to get someone....we got Joseph and with money to spare for a safety in Manning......
 

Ole Miss Texan

Hall of Fame
LOL I can't see us still going after Nnamdi. But just for fun I'll entertain the thought. We would just go from the league's WORST secondary to the league's BEST. Haha, that's one way to improve. jeez
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
How pumped were we as a fanbase when we dumped Carr for Schaub?
Well I'm just glad that they actually signed two guys that they needed. Still wanted Nnamdi though. THe thing is when you don't get a guy like that you've got to consider where he might land and right now it looks like he'll be landing in NY where the Texans will have to go through those guys if they make it to the post season. If the get Nnamdi I don't see how throws on the Jets unless they're hitting the TE in the middle. I still want to see Rick Smith have more than one off season where he upgrades the team in free agency though. I don't want him to feel like he has signed these guys now so he can chill for a few years, you know what I mean?
 

DX-TEX

#TomSavageDontCare
Well I'm just glad that they actually signed two guys that they needed. Still wanted Nnamdi though. THe thing is when you don't get a guy like that you've got to consider where he might land and right now it looks like he'll be landing in NY where the Texans will have to go through those guys if they make it to the post season. If the get Nnamdi I don't see how throws on the Jets unless they're hitting the TE in the middle. I still want to see Rick Smith have more than one off season where he upgrades the team in free agency though. I don't want him to feel like he has signed these guys now so he can chill for a few years, you know what I mean?
Easily solved. Run right at them and dink-n-dunk em in the middle of the field.
 

Ole Miss Texan

Hall of Fame
Alright so I just did some quick statistical work regarding Johnathan Joseph and his partner over in Cincy, Leon Hall. Looking at both of them I think helps put things a little in perspective. Stats from nfl.com and this place.

Joseph allowed 42 completions on 64 targets (66% completion rate).
Hall allowed 44 completions on 74 targets (59% completion rate).

Joseph's completions allowed represented 13.0% of the Bengals total allowed completions. His targets represented 12.5% of the QBs' total pass attempts.

Hall's completions allowed represented 13.6% of the Bengals total allowed completions. His targets represented 14.5% of the opposing QBs' total pass attempts.

Joseph gave up 436 yards or 10.4 yards per catch: 12.1% of total passing yards allowed.
Hall gave up 579 yards or 13.2 yards per catch: 16.1% of total passing yards allowed.

Bengals allowed 20 passing TDs of which 3 were attributed to Joseph and 5 for Hall.

Joseph had 3 INTs with 1 returned for a TD; Hall had 4 INTs.

Teams attempted roughly 511 passes (61%) against the Bengals as compared to 330 rushes (39%).

Not sure you can read TOO much into this without looking around the league for comparisons.
 

fiasco west

All Pro
Alright so I just did some quick statistical work regarding Johnathan Joseph and his partner over in Cincy, Leon Hall. Looking at both of them I think helps put things a little in perspective. Stats from nfl.com and this place.

Joseph allowed 42 completions on 64 targets (66% completion rate).
Hall allowed 44 completions on 74 targets (59% completion rate).

Joseph's completions allowed represented 13.0% of the Bengals total allowed completions. His targets represented 12.5% of the QBs' total pass attempts.

Hall's completions allowed represented 13.6% of the Bengals total allowed completions. His targets represented 14.5% of the opposing QBs' total pass attempts.

Joseph gave up 436 yards or 10.4 yards per catch: 12.1% of total passing yards allowed.
Hall gave up 579 yards or 13.2 yards per catch: 16.1% of total passing yards allowed.

Bengals allowed 20 passing TDs of which 3 were attributed to Joseph and 5 for Hall.

Joseph had 3 INTs with 1 returned for a TD; Hall had 4 INTs.

Teams attempted roughly 511 passes (61%) against the Bengals as compared to 330 rushes (39%).

Not sure you can read TOO much into this without looking around the league for comparisons.
Would be interesting to see these numbers for the Texans CBs last year. Could see how much of an improvement was made.
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
They can't get Joseph and Aso without severely hamstringing subsequent moves. As far as how it would effect Mario, I want us to franchise him next year and then let him walk unless he blows us all away with his play this year.

Proud of Rick for knowing when to cash his chips in. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Getting Manning gives us an experienced player in the secondary who can help in KR game and prevent us from putting Nolan on the field.
 

El Tejano

Hall of Fame
What made the Joseph signing great was how it allowed us to even get Manning too. One of the major reasons our secondary sucked was because of a very young set of DBs and horrible safety play. We got a good vet for a CB and better safety play yesterday.
 

skenney_11

Practice Squad
I think that the Texans have kept back 12-14 Mil for Aso. Maybe thats why McClain has said all along that they didn't have much cap room because it was kept for Aso
 

Shaft75

All Pro
They can't get Joseph and Aso without severely hamstringing subsequent moves. As far as how it would effect Mario, I want us to franchise him next year and then let him walk unless he blows us all away with his play this year.

Proud of Rick for knowing when to cash his chips in. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Getting Manning gives us an experienced player in the secondary who can help in KR game and prevent us from putting Nolan on the field.
:wow: Positive response about Smith from SH. The tides are definitely turning!
 


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