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Jaws gives breakdown on Schaub (AFC South Blog)

In week 1 vs. the Colts, the Texans started the game with 11 running plays and 9 passing plays to go up by 17.

They continued with the game plan with 18 rushing attempts and 17 passing attempts to double the lead.

It was only then when they switched to the run game to kill the clock.
 
If this team were to only run the ball OR pass the ball....

Which would do better???

Who here thinks we have a Colts/Saints offense designed to pass, pass, pass and score lots of points...then toss the occasional sweep to a RB or an occasional RB draw?

Who here thinks we have a Giants/Steelers offense designed to run and compliment with the pass with lots of TE action and the one extraordinary WR who is a deep threat?

You can strive to "be" anything you want. What ARE you, though, at the end of the day? We're a team who runs the ball so freaking beautifully that the passing game is a token byproduct of the run game. And the OL, beginning with Myers, is the key to that.
 
GP said:
You can strive to "be" anything you want. What ARE you, though, at the end of the day? We're a team who runs the ball so freaking beautifully that the passing game is a token byproduct of the run game. And the OL, beginning with Myers, is the key to that.
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Which is why we led the league in passing and receiving with NO RUSHING GAME.

Token is beyond ridiculous. It is what came on first. 9140 yards in two seasons is not token.
 
Against the Raiders, a team that was known to be mediocre at defending the run, one would expect the Texans would at least run as much as they did in 2010.

However, thie year, the Raiders were determined to stop the Texans running game. They played mostly single safety, and even zero coverage to bring more men into the box.

The Texans ran the ball 16 times and passed the ball 21 times in the first half.
Then they started the second half with roughly the same distribution (7 runs and 10 pass attempts) as the Raiders continued with their defensive game plan and forged ahead by 8 with 10 minutes to go in the 4th.

It was only then that the Texans switched full gear to the passing game.

The Texans tried to stay with the running game for as long as possible even though it wasn't working.

With the Raiders going 3 and out twice, the Texans controlled the ball for almost 9 minutes (of the 10 minutes remained in the game.)
The lone rushing attempt by Foster in the last 3 drives resulted in a net loss of 4 yards.

In fact, a case could be made for the Texans to throw a few more times in the first 3 quarters given the defensive game plan by the Raiders.
 
GP said:
If this team were to only run the ball OR pass the ball....

Which would do better???

Who here thinks we have a Colts/Saints offense designed to pass, pass, pass and score lots of points...then toss the occasional sweep to a RB or an occasional RB draw?

Who here thinks we have a Giants/Steelers offense designed to run and compliment with the pass with lots of TE action and the one extraordinary WR who is a deep threat?

You can strive to "be" anything you want. What ARE you, though, at the end of the day? We're a team who runs the ball so freaking beautifully that the passing game is a token byproduct of the run game. And the OL, beginning with Myers, is the key to that.
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See the Raiders game that I just recapped.
 
76Texan said:
In fact, a case could be made for the Texans to throw a few more times in the first 3 quarters given the defensive game plan by the Raiders.
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The passing game (sans Andre Johnson) wasn't working either. Schaub was 1-11 with a game ending interception when trying to connect with Jacoby Jones.
 
76Texan said:
Nah, up until the last two drives (starting with 2:52 left in the game), Foster ran 27 times while Yates attempted 28 passes.

At any rate, the point is that Kubiak did not give up on the running game.
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With 12:29 left in the 4th, Foster would only carry the ball twice for the rest of the game. The score was 17-13 Baltimore.

After the missed field goal by Rackers, we got the ball back with 13:30 on the clock. Foster carried the ball three times back to back. 6 yards, 7 yards, then 1 yard. We then passed for two consecutive times, then punted.

We got the ball back, same score, 17-13 Baltimore with 9:34 on the clock. A pass to Dre for 19 yards, a Screen to Foster, losing 7 yards. A run by Foster picking up 2 yards, the fumble, Jacoby picks it up. 3rd & 12..... int.

They score a field goal. we get the ball back with 2:44 to go. Two big passes, we get to the Balt38. We go for the bomb again..... INT.

Of course we've got to pass now, 0:45 left in the game, 4 straight passes..... game over.​

I don't know. We ran the ball 4 times in the 4th Qtr & the score wasn't really a factor until the last 3 minutes. Even if take out the last 4 passes, that's 8 passes to 4 runs... far as I can tell, we finished the game with 2 timeouts left.
 
Lucky said:
The passing game (sans Andre Johnson) wasn't working either. Schaub was 1-11 with a game ending interception when trying to connect with Jacoby Jones.
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Foster and Chris O ran the ball 24 times for 70 yards.
That's less than 3 ypc.

Schaub atttempted 51 passes for a net of 403 yards; that's nearly 8 ypa.

I don't see how you can say that the passing game wasn't working, despite JJ (and the rest of the guys for that matter.)
It's not Schaub's fault that some of the passes were dropped.
It wasn't just JJ.
Vickers, for example, also dropped a sure TD when he was wide-open.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't know. We ran the ball 4 times in the 4th Qtr & the score wasn't really a factor until the last 3 minutes. Even if take out the last 4 passes, that's 8 passes to 4 runs... far as I can tell, we finished the game with 2 timeouts left.
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Come on TK, you're trivializing things a little too much.

4th Qtr
Ravens led 17-13

Houston Texans at 13:30
1-10-HST 20 (13:30) A.Foster right guard to HST 26 for 6 yards (R.Lewis).
2-4-HST 26 (13:01) A.Foster right guard to HST 33 for 7 yards (L.Webb). R13
1-10-HST 33 (12:29) A.Foster right guard to HST 34 for 1 yard (B.McKinney).
2-9-HST 34 (11:54) T.Yates pass incomplete short left to B.Tate.
3-9-HST 34 (11:48) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass short right to K.Walter to HST 40 for 6 yards (B.Pollard).
4-3-HST 40 (11:16) (Punt formation) M.Turk punts 35 yards to BLT 25, Center-J.Weeks, out of bounds.

That's 3 runs and then a quick throw to Tate (which TJ short-armed for an incompletion). Then it was 3rd and 9; a pass to Walter isn't out of line here.

Houston Texans at 9:34
1-10-HST 31 (9:34) T.Yates pass deep right to A.Johnson to HST 50 for 19 yards (L.Webb). P14
1-10-HST 50 (8:57) T.Yates pass short left to A.Foster to HST 43 for -7 yards (R.Lewis).
2-17-HST 43 (8:11) (Shotgun) A.Foster up the middle to HST 45 for 2 yards (H.Ngata). FUMBLES (H.Ngata), recovered by HSTJ.
Jones at HST 48. J.Jones to HST 48 for no gain (R.Lewis).
3-12-HST 48 (7:28) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass deep middle intended for K.Walter INTERCEPTED by L.Webb at BLT 29. L.Webb
to BLT 29 for no gain (K.Walter).

A pass to AJ followed by a pass to Foster (which is basically a run).
Then a run by Foster even though it was 2nd and 17.
And finally a pass attempt to Walter on 3rd and 12.
I don't see anybody abandonning the run.

Then the Ravens went up by a TD with 2:52 to go, playing soft like I already described; there was nothing wrong with switching to the pass in that situation with the defense they were playing.
 
infantrycak said:
Which is why we led the league in passing and receiving with NO RUSHING GAME.

Token is beyond ridiculous. It is what came on first. 9140 yards in two seasons is not token.
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Lets just go back to the beginning and bash Carr and Capers if you are going to continue to insist on bringing up the past to try and prove a point that has no merit. We are a run first team NOW. Watch the games sparky.
 
ckhouston said:
Lets just go back to the beginning and bash Carr and Capers if you are going to continue to insist on bringing up the past to try and prove a point that has no merit. We are a run first team NOW. Watch the games sparky.
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Who's bringing up the past?

We were a run first team LAST year because we had a sh$tty quarterback.

Now that Schaub is back we will see what kind of team we are.

And cak may be a lot of things, but sparky is not what I'd call him.
 
ckhouston said:
Lets just go back to the beginning and bash Carr and Capers if you are going to continue to insist on bringing up the past to try and prove a point that has no merit. We are a run first team NOW. Watch the games sparky.
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You try watching the games. Run first teams don't go for 4000 yards passing.

How about that sparky? Name all the run first teams that go for 4000 yds passing three years in a row (last year on pace until Schaub went down)?

You have no freaking clue. Want to see a run first team? - look at the early 90's Cowboys. Aikman's top year ever was 3300 yds not 4770.

Last year with a rookie starting a third of the season the passing game still outscored the rushing game.
 
infantrycak said:
You try watching the games. Run first teams don't go for 4000 yards passing.

How about that sparky? Name all the run first teams that go for 4000 yds passing three years in a row (last year on pace until Schaub went down)?

You have no freaking clue. Want to see a run first team? - look at the early 90's Cowboys. Aikman's top year ever was 3300 yds not 4770.

Last year with a rookie starting a third of the season the passing game still outscored the rushing game.
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We ran the ball more, but it doesn't mean that we were a run-first team.

A couple of reasons why we ran more was because (1) we played against more teams with poor run defense and (2) we had more games with a lead (big lead at that).
 
ckhouston said:
Lets just go back to the beginning and bash Carr and Capers if you are going to continue to insist on bringing up the past to try and prove a point that has no merit. We are a run first team NOW. Watch the games sparky.
Click to expand...

Have you watched any games besides 2011 slick?
 
DBCooper said:
Who's bringing up the past?

We were a run first team LAST year because we had a sh$tty quarterback.

Now that Schaub is back we will see what kind of team we are.
Click to expand...

Even with Tj, Kubiak tried to be balanced. If ever we were not balanced, it wasn't for lack of effort.
 
76Texan said:
We ran the ball more, but it doesn't mean that we were a run-first team.

A couple of reasons why we ran more was because (1) we played against more teams with poor run defense and (2) we had more games with a lead (big lead at that).
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I'll say it again, because I think we're getting mixed up (all of us) on semantics.

The analysts are all agreeing--Kuharsky, Kiper, Jaworski--that THE bread and butter of this team is (drum roll please) the ZBS run game. As it goes, so goes the rest of the offense.

This doesn't need to break down into whether we "want" to be balanced, we "are" balanced, or whether we're "run first" or not. It doesn't have to be an argument about whether this team is one way WITH Schaub or another way without him. It doesn't have to depend on stats that show how we run, when we run, and how we pass and when we pass (though the stats GoatCheese provide are very nice to peruse).

At the end of the day, what do you see the Texans as: A great running team with a good pass game....or a great passing team with a good run game? The Colts never hurt defenses with their pure running attack...the RBs, if they got anything, it was always predicated upon Manning exploiting a defense's tendency to play the pass too much. Same with the Saints--Play the pass too heavily against Brees, and BAM! it's a sweep to Sproles and he's around the edge for 6.

It's not enough to say we're balanced. You guys/gals truly believe that our pass game is equal, all things considered, to the run game? I don't.

If a defense against us was only allowed to play straight-up D--no blitzes and no stacking the box--would the Texans wear out that opposing defense with the passing game? No. But our run game...it would get Foster (and Foster would get himself) to the next level every time. I know that's a bit of a stretch example, but still.

Teams respect our passing game, They FEAR our running game.
 
GP said:
I'll say it again, because I think we're getting mixed up (all of us) on semantics.

Teams respect our passing game, They FEAR our running game.
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It isn't semantics.

2007 - 11th passing, 22nd rushing.
2008 - 4th passing, 13th rushing.
2009 - 1st passing, 30th rushing.
2010 - 4th passing, 7th rushing.
2011 - 16th passing (damn no Schaub for a third of the season), 2nd rushing.

You can call it semantics (why is it people who want to use that term are almost always throwing it out dismissively? anyway) but the Kubiak Texans have never been a run first team. He's a freaking QB.

Being successful isn't the same thing as design. They spent 2 2nds and $50 mil on Schaub and no pick on Foster.
 
infantrycak said:
It isn't semantics.

2007 - 11th passing, 22nd rushing.
2008 - 4th passing, 13th rushing.
2009 - 1st passing, 30th rushing.
2010 - 4th passing, 7th rushing.
2011 - 16th passing (damn no Schaub for a third of the season), 2nd rushing.

You can call it semantics (why is it people who want to use that term are almost always throwing it out dismissively? anyway) but the Kubiak Texans have never been a run first team. He's a freaking QB.

Being successful isn't the same thing as design. They spent 2 2nds and $50 mil on Schaub and no pick on Foster.
Click to expand...

After this season is over you will look foolish ... football wise. I am sure you are very edumucated on basket weaving, knitting, and parades for alternative lifestyles.
 
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76Texan said:
Foster and Chris O ran the ball 24 times for 70 yards.
That's less than 3 ypc.

Schaub atttempted 51 passes for a net of 403 yards; that's nearly 8 ypa.

I don't see how you can say that the passing game wasn't working, despite JJ (and the rest of the guys for that matter.)
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I think you have to see the game, rather than the stats. The Texans passed 2X the number of rushes, yet you are saying they didn't pass enough? And passing ypa will always be greater than rushing yards per attempt. The Texans hit on 3 big pass plays to get a big chunk of that yardage. And only came away with 10 points off those plays. It was a poor offensive showing all around, but it was the negative plays in the passing game (ints & sacks) that kept the Raiders in the game, and eventually lost the game for the Texans.
 
ckhouston said:
After this season is over you will look like the fool you are. Football wise. i am sure you are very edumucated on basket weaving, knitting, and parades for alternative lifestyles.
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Well, we sure are fortunate that we have you to show us the truth, because no one besides you seems to understand the complexities of football.

Do you have any real friends? (I'm serious)
 
As long as we're a score early and often offense, I don't care which is the chicken or which is the egg...


...can we PLEEEEASE git some futball around here?!?!
:pissed:

We're running out of real stuff to argue about!!
:barman:
 
GP said:
At the end of the day, what do you see the Texans as: A great running team with a good pass game....or a great passing team with a good run game?
Click to expand...

I'm going with option C) a great offense.
 
I know this for certain that when Schaub is healthy we almost always open up games throwing the ball quite a bit on our opening drive or 2. Someone may know where to find the ratio on this but Kubiak loves to come out putting the ball in the air. Is this passing to set up the run? I'm not sure, nut one could certainly make that argument.
 
Texn4life said:
I know this for certain that when Schaub is healthy we almost always open up games throwing the ball quite a bit on our opening drive or 2. Someone may know where to find the ratio on this but Kubiak loves to come out putting the ball in the air. Is this passing to set up the run? I'm not sure, nut one could certainly make that argument.
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In the games that Schaub started last year...

In 7 of the games, our first 10 plays were split 5-5 between run and pass. Against the Steelers, we ran 6 times in the first 10 plays; against the Ravens and Buccs, we threw 6 times in the first 10 plays.

7 of the 10 games started with a pass being the first play. 5 of the 10 games started with the first 2 plays being passes. Against the Titans and Jags, our first two plays were rushes. In the first two plays overall, we have 13 passes to 7 rushes.

It's interesting to me that the Buccs, and (iirc) the Ravens, had talked a lot the week before the game about how they were going to stop the run. And then we came out passing.

So, yeah. I could see how you could get the feeling that Kubiak likes to come out airing the ball out. He does throw a lot in the first 2 plays of the game but after 10 plays, it normally balances out.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
In the games that Schaub started last year...

In 7 of the games, our first 10 plays were split 5-5 between run and pass. Against the Steelers, we ran 6 times in the first 10 plays; against the Ravens and Buccs, we threw 6 times in the first 10 plays.

7 of the 10 games started with a pass being the first play. 5 of the 10 games started with the first 2 plays being passes. Against the Titans and Jags, our first two plays were rushes. In the first two plays overall, we have 13 passes to 7 rushes.

It's interesting to me that the Buccs, and (iirc) the Ravens, had talked a lot the week before the game about how they were going to stop the run. And then we came out passing.

So, yeah. I could see how you could get the feeling that Kubiak likes to come out airing the ball out. He does throw a lot in the first 2 plays of the game but after 10 plays, it normally balances out.
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That's kind of been Kubiak's MO since Schaub has been here to open up the game throwing the ball. Like you put in your post though it seems to balance out after the first few plays.

It used to drive me nuts in 2010 when Arian was just shredding teams up, but I also thought there was a method to his madness because Arian would seem to get stronger late in the games. I can't remember hardly any games in 2010 when we came out running the ball early. Again, this is based purely on my memory so I could be wrong. At the end of the day though, the balance always seems to be there when we have an efficient running game whether it was with Slaton, or Foster/Tate.
 
76Texan said:
Foster and Chris O ran the ball 24 times for 70 yards.
That's less than 3 ypc.

Schaub atttempted 51 passes for a net of 403 yards; that's nearly 8 ypa.

I don't see how you can say that the passing game wasn't working, despite JJ (and the rest of the guys for that matter.)
It's not Schaub's fault that some of the passes were dropped.
It wasn't just JJ.
Vickers, for example, also dropped a sure TD when he was wide-open.
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Yeah, that made my heart sink. No defender within15 yds and the goal line straight ahead. That cost us the game right there. I had a sick feeling in my gut.
 
Kubiak opens with passing game because defenses are keying on the run.

They've got Arian Foster on their mind all week leading up to the game against us. They've got Foster on their mind Sunday breakfast. And in the locker room. And during warmups. And during the national anthem.

So you go with a few passes right off the bat...because they're anticipating Foster.

Then the run game. Then the play action. Then AJ or OD. And soon, the defense doesn't know what to defend.
 
It's only Monday morning but I think ckhouston's next nicknames(post-"kiddo" above) for Cak are going to be either "braugh" or "coolguy." Could be wrong..just saying.
 
HoustonFrog said:
It's only Monday morning but I think ckhouston's next nicknames(post-"kiddo" above) for Cak are going to be either "braugh" or "coolguy." Could be wrong..just saying.
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I'm laying 2/1 odds on either sport, broham, or friendo
 
I don't think that they have been a run-first team at all. I honestly can't remember the specific games last season, but there was a loss or two in which many of us thought "Why the heck is Foster watching the game from the sideline while Gary is stubbornly sticking with a weak passing offense?"

I agree with those who think that Gary will pass first if at all possible.
 
ckhouston said:
Does anything but 2011 matter ... slick?

Its 2012 there kiddo, welcome to the present.
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Yeah it matters. Especially when you have the most of the same staff and personnel from those previous years, son.

EDIT: And Kubiak preached on, ad naseum, about how he wants to use the run to open up the pass, even in the years (2009, 2007, etc etc) where we had no run game. It drove most of us crazy when he said crap like that and Schaub was putting up 300 yard games all the time.
 
DocBar said:
:handshake: It's a team sport and takes all facets working together to be successful. IMO, that all starts with the OL executing. None of the "skill" positions look nearly as "skilled" when they don't.
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Yep...

And a lot of the defensive players reads in the front 7 are based on what the O-line is doing as well...Especially the D-line and OLB's...

Keeping that backside DE guessing is very important to the stretch run and PA bootleg...
 
Somebody asked, "What are we, right now?". Well, Right Now, with Shaub back in the fold, we are more of a passing team with a really good run game. Last year, before Shaub went down, we were a passing team with a really good run game. When TJ started, we were a running team, who sometimes passed it with buttholes clinched. Why do people argue just for arguments sake when you could look stats up? Come on guys, we all root for the same team.
 
b0ng said:
Yeah it matters. Especially when you have the most of the same staff and personnel from those previous years, son.

EDIT: And Kubiak preached on, ad naseum, about how he wants to use the run to open up the pass, even in the years (2009, 2007, etc etc) where we had no run game. It drove most of us crazy when he said crap like that and Schaub was putting up 300 yard games all the time.
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I seem to recall he made the run work well enough to beat Indy/Manning with Dayne as our "feature back" and HWWNBN under center.

Bottom Line: Kubiak will go with whatever works.
 
ObsiWan said:
I seem to recall he made the run work well enough to beat Indy/Manning with Dayne as our "feature back" and HWWNBN under center.

Bottom Line: Kubiak will go with whatever works.
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It was so weird. We pounded the snot out of the Colts in that game. And then a few weeks later, Larry Johnson and the Chiefs couldn't. Of course, that was the year Herm Edwards broke Larry Johnson by feeding him the ball too much, but still. I expected the Chiefs to beat the Colts in that game.
 
ckhouston said:
Does anything but 2011 matter ... slick?

Its 2012 there kiddo, welcome to the present.
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Yes it does. It shows a pattern of consistency under a regime. One season is determined by a lot of circumstances as to how an offense schemes and operates. DIfferent factors like injuries can change those variables throughout a season. Previous season statistics give us factual data to go off in order to draw a proper conclusion as to what this offense is and how it has operated under Kubiak. INfantry Cak provided some of that data and it definitely showed a pattern.

One of the biggest factors that I haven't heard anyone mention was that the Texans became more run oriented, because of Yates playing. He was a 5th round rookie thrown into the fire. Kubiak made the offense much more run oriented when that happened and rightfully so. The best WR Yates had at the time was Owen Daniels as well. They had to go more run oriented due to what the personal was on the team that was able to suit up. Since you keep wanting to talk about the "present and the future" going forward, this offense will be what it is able to be based on what QB is out there. If Yates has to play, than this offense will likely be very run oriented again. If Schaub is out there, than this offense becomes a balanced offense with a lot more passing involved. Why wouldn't they? Schaub is a top 10 QB that has proven that he can lead the league in passing yards.
 
Texecutioner said:
INfantry Cak provided some of that data and it definitely showed a pattern.
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Agreed and the stats speak for themselves, not arguing that. But what team was on the field then? Now Kubes knows his defense can stop the other team, so he doesnt have to hang 30+ on the board to have a chance every game. He has the best one two punch in the game IMO at RB, so if you can ... why wouldnt you run the ball, eat the clock, stuff the opponent, win the game ... everytime. Will there be huge passing plays? Sure because they will be open, but I believe you will see a focus to a ground and pound style offense that takes the pressure off the QB to have to win in the clutch. Kubes has made the mistake in the past of letting Matt throw in situations that he cost us the game when we could have just ran and ate up the clock. I think Gary is smart enough to learn from his mistakes.
 
ckhouston said:
Agreed and the stats speak for themselves, not arguing that. But what team was on the field then? Now Kubes knows his defense can stop the other team, so he doesnt have to hang 30+ on the board to have a chance every game. He has the best one two punch in the game IMO at RB, so if you can ... why wouldnt you run the ball, eat the clock, stuff the opponent, win the game ... everytime. Will there be huge passing plays? Sure because they will be open, but I believe you will see a focus to a ground and pound style offense that takes the pressure off the QB to have to win in the clutch. Kubes has made the mistake in the past of letting Matt throw in situations that he cost us the game when we could have just ran and ate up the clock. I think Gary is smart enough to learn from his mistakes.
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We don't agree much but I think you're spot on here. + You know the difference between 'then' and 'than'. :D
 
GP said:
Kubiak opens with passing game because defenses are keying on the run.

They've got Arian Foster on their mind all week leading up to the game against us. They've got Foster on their mind Sunday breakfast. And in the locker room. And during warmups. And during the national anthem.

So you go with a few passes right off the bat...because they're anticipating Foster.

Then the run game. Then the play action. Then AJ or OD. And soon, the defense doesn't know what to defend.
Click to expand...

teams must be kicking themselves for not noticing this complex, devious plan by kubiak during their film study every wk :choke:
 
ckhouston said:
Agreed and the stats speak for themselves, not arguing that. But what team was on the field then? Now Kubes knows his defense can stop the other team, so he doesnt have to hang 30+ on the board to have a chance every game. He has the best one two punch in the game IMO at RB, so if you can ... why wouldnt you run the ball, eat the clock, stuff the opponent, win the game ... everytime. Will there be huge passing plays? Sure because they will be open, but I believe you will see a focus to a ground and pound style offense that takes the pressure off the QB to have to win in the clutch. Kubes has made the mistake in the past of letting Matt throw in situations that he cost us the game when we could have just ran and ate up the clock. I think Gary is smart enough to learn from his mistakes.
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Gary is a west coast coach, we are not going to be a ground and pound type of team
 
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