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Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

PapaL said:
Here's the million dollar question; if Winston is there at 16, do we take him?
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Most definitely. Winston is a talent. You just hope BoB can whip that young man into shape. If you took Winston's on field play, combined with Mariota's off field personality, you would have the sure #1 pick. I just think Mariota has higher potential to bust than Winston, who I think can come in and be a productive rookie QB. I don't want Winston in the division (so Titans only real threat), unless he is on the Texans.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Most definitely. Winston is a talent. You just hope BoB can whip that young man into shape. If you took Winston's on field play, combined with Mariota's off field personality, you would have the sure #1 pick. I just think Mariota has higher potential to bust than Winston, who I think can come in and be a productive rookie QB. I don't want Winston in the division (so Titans only real threat), unless he is on the Texans.
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Admittedly I haven't watched him enough, but nothing I've seen says NFL material, most certainly not 1st round material
 
Hey, I'm no scout either, but I like the way he wills his team to wins (not tonight though). He seems like a very good teammate. He has decent speed and pretty good pocket awareness imo. Also goes through his progressions. His off the field stuff isn't NFL material, but I really think his on field play is made for the NFL.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
His off the field stuff isn't NFL material, but I really think his on field play is made for the NFL.
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And do you think his "off the field stuff" will just magically vanish into thin air when he gets into the NFL?

I got a bridge to sell you if you do. :)
 
Winston should really start hitting the weight room with a purpose. He's on pudgy side compared to most of the other top tier QBs that have come into the league. He can get away with it now cause he's young, but he'll need a stronger physique if he wants to last long in the pros.
 
Marcus said:
And do you think his "off the field stuff" will just magically vanish into thin air when he gets into the NFL?

I got a bridge to sell you if you do. :)
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Best chance for that to happen is for him to take a long soul suckling tumble on draft day.
 
Marcus said:
And do you think his "off the field stuff" will just magically vanish into thin air when he gets into the NFL?

I got a bridge to sell you if you do. :)
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Of course not. Winston is a sociopath. But you never know, he could grow up and be better able to control his emotions.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
Of course not. Winston is a sociopath. But you never know, he could grow up and be better able to control his emotions.
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Having millions of dollars just enhances who you are, it doesn't change who you are. If your a poor sociopath, having millions of dollars just allows you to get in even more trouble. JMO, but Winston is going to be Jamarcus Russell 2.0 and out of the league in a 3 yrs. along with Manziel if he doesn't grow up quickly.
 
I really don't get the Jamarcus Russell comparison.

Russell was addicted to drank.

I can see the Manziel-russell comparison if you want to say that drugs and not taking football seriously may cost him...

But Winston to me compares more to Big Ben with his play and his off field transgressions.

IF Winston fails I don't think it will be because he doesn't take his job seriously and just wants to blow his money on drugs.

And if he's there when we're up, I'd take him and not think twice.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I really don't get the Jamarcus Russell comparison.

Russell was addicted to drank.

I can see the Manziel-russell comparison if you want to say that drugs and not taking football seriously may cost him...

But Winston to me compares more to Big Ben with his play and his off field transgressions.

IF Winston fails I don't think it will be because he doesn't take his job seriously and just wants to blow his money on drugs.

And if he's there when we're up, I'd take him and not think twice.
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And that's how we'd have to take him. Without thinking...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I really don't get the Jamarcus Russell comparison.

Russell was addicted to drank.

I can see the Manziel-russell comparison if you want to say that drugs and not taking football seriously may cost him...

But Winston to me compares more to Big Ben with his play and his off field transgressions.

IF Winston fails I don't think it will be because he doesn't take his job seriously and just wants to blow his money on drugs.

And if he's there when we're up, I'd take him and not think twice.
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Are there rumors of Winston having an incredibly poor work ethic or an inability to learn an offense?
 
I really do not understand the man-crush some of you have on Winston.

Some of the teams He came from behind to win, should have been blow-outs. Their schedule was so soft. Louisville - come on man.

The Winston I saw yesterday is definitely not a QB I would ever want. The Oregon defense had him totally bamboozled. If he can't read a good college defense, he sure will not be able to read a good NFL defense. There are a lot of really good college QBs but very few can take the leap to being a good NFL QB. This guy has BUST written all over him. Just like Vince, Russell, RGIII, and probably Manziel.

I will give him credit for at lease shaking hands with Oregon after the game, unlike 3/4 of his team that were crybabies and just walked off.
 
I'm not going as far to say Winston sucks, but there's no way I'm taking the dude in the first 2-3 rounds.

Imo, there's one QB that might be worthy of a first round pick and that's Mariota.

Unless something drastic happens, he'll be a Buc in a few months
 
There's always overreaction to bowl games. One way or another. Winston has two very good years of tape to go off of. As a football player and QB, he certainly is worth the investment of a 1st round pick, if you need a QB. He's not perfect. But he has a lot of talent. Someone made the comparison of a Steve McNair type, and I agree. Winston had and has to throw into much tighter coverage and under more pressure than Mariota has. Not suggesting that Mariota isn't as good or even better prospect than Winston.

Winston as a person you want to bring into an organization? I don't know. That's why you interview, investigate, interrogate these prospects. Some team's going to go through the process and say, "Yes, let's take him." That's how it works.
 
Grams said:
I really do not understand the man-crush some of you have on Winston.

Some of the teams He came from behind to win, should have been blow-outs. Their schedule was so soft. Louisville - come on man.

The Winston I saw yesterday is definitely not a QB I would ever want. The Oregon defense had him totally bamboozled. If he can't read a good college defense, he sure will not be able to read a good NFL defense. There are a lot of really good college QBs but very few can take the leap to being a good NFL QB. This guy has BUST written all over him. Just like Vince, Russell, RGIII, and probably Manziel.

I will give him credit for at lease shaking hands with Oregon after the game, unlike 3/4 of his team that were crybabies and just walked off.
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For the bolded is why I would consider taking him. He can play football, so the talent is there.
Also, last night's game could have been a wake up call for him. If he wants to be a good quarterback, then he'll take yesterdays game and improve on it. If not, then I could see him being a bust like many others.

I wouldn't mind having him since Mariotta would probably be out of our reach anyway.
 
santo said:
For the bolded is why I would consider taking him. He can play football, so the talent is there.
Also, last night's game could have been a wake up call for him. If he wants to be a good quarterback, then he'll take yesterdays game and improve on it. If not, then I could see him being a bust like many others.

I wouldn't mind having him since Mariotta would probably be out of our reach anyway.
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So you're going to ignore All the ignorant crap this moron has done over the last couple of years because he shook hands with the winning team? Reaks of desperation.
 
mussop said:
So you're going to ignore All the ignorant crap this moron has done over the last couple of years because he shook hands with the winning team? Reaks of desperation.
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Not really. If he's been clean since then, then why not give him a shot. A lot of young players do stupid things and keep on doing them and never learn from them. But if he shows maturity, then I see no reason not to give him a look. It's not like we're drafting Aaron Hernandez. :fingergun:
 
mussop said:
So you're going to ignore All the ignorant crap this moron has done over the last couple of years because he shook hands with the winning team? Reaks of desperation.
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I just want to know I have a comprehensive list of his misdeads. Putting aside the rape deal, there's:

Shoplifting crab
Shooting bb guns
Yelling something inappropriate at a woman

Is that correct or are there others?
 
santo said:
Not really. If he's been clean since then, then why not give him a shot. A lot of young players do stupid things and keep on doing them and never learn from them. But if he shows maturity, then I see no reason not to give him a look. It's not like we're drafting Aaron Hernandez. :fingergun:
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Yeah, it kinda is. I'd put rape up there with murder, if not worse.
 
infantrycak said:
Not to my knowledge. One incident seemed to be shoplifting crab legs from a grocery store.
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jameis-winston-crab-legs.jpg
 
HOU-TEX said:
Yeah, it kinda is. I'd put rape up there with murder, if not worse.
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It is IF CONVICTED. From my understanding Winston wasn't even charged. I know, allegations of a bent system and all but the fact is at this point it was an allegation and we presume innocence.
 
infantrycak said:
Not to my knowledge. One incident seemed to be shoplifting crab legs from a grocery store.
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Sounds like a fraternity prank. Or they're just not feeding him enough at mess hall. He'll be able to buy all the crab he wants soon enough. I don't see this a problem on draft day.
 
infantrycak said:
I just want to know I have a comprehensive list of his misdeads. Putting aside the rape deal, there's:

Shoplifting crab legs - caught on video, got him suspended from Baseball team
Shooting bb guns with a group - causing ~$4K damage
Yelling something inappropriate at a woman - vulgar actually, whilst jumping on a table - suspended for one game by universitypresident as he thought Jameis wasn't being honest

Is that correct or are there others?
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You missed the Burger King soda incident (alleged). :kitten:

Link Bolding not to correct, but to give a bit of context.
 
steelbtexan said:
Really, rape is worse than murder.
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In ways yes. One the victim lives with, often with a life destroyed.

But if we want to go further on this discussion we should take it to the NSZ.

But what does appear to be going on here is that some people are presuming guilt on the rape and then making out what would otherwise be minor crud as serious.

Are there any accusations of drug/alcohol abuse?
 
I would give him a pass on the BB gun thing. That is something an immature 18 year old would do. I remember before my first semester in school, I moved in early and was in a summer program. We were dumb and someone brought BB guns and was shooting them in the hallway. Our RA came out and yelled at us and told us to not do it again and no one did that summer. Standing on a table and yelling that well known meme was dumb too. Would be easier to forgive had he been a young freshman though.
 
I think Winston is a cross between Big Ben , JFF , and VY . Big and strong , immature , and highly irresponsible . Winston's father wanted FSU to have someone with Winston 24/7 because of his status . I'm surprised Uncle Nate didn't jump on that gig .
 
dtran04 said:
Hard to evaluate QBs in college. Seems like Winston has to thread the needle on almost every throw while Mariota is throwing to guys wide open. That offensive system is impossible to defend.
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Winston also showed some pretty good anticipation & very good ball placement.
 
The1ApplePie said:
Oregon players apparently mocked Winston with a "No Means No" chant set to the tomahawk chop:
http://deadspin.com/oregon-players-taunt-jameis-winston-with-no-means-no-1677030996
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See, that's the kind of crap talk I don't care for. After you beat the guy on the field, it should be done, over with. What else really needs to be said? It's like kicking a guy when he's down.

Now if they came into the stadium doing that, then ok. Strap up the cleats & let's play. Back it up, or you're just a punk.
 
infantrycak said:
I just want to know I have a comprehensive list of his misdeads. Putting aside the rape deal, there's:

Shoplifting crab
Shooting bb guns
Yelling something inappropriate at a woman

Is that correct or are there others?
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4000$ worth of damage with BB guns just hours after having police called on him for shooting it around campus. Burger King incident. Just listen to witnesses on how he acts in public. Google Burger King Winston and see how he treats people.

Ill tell you one thing that was not his fault. That fumble that turned into a Oregon TD. That wrestler came out of nowhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDsz-Kt30g8
 
HOU-TEX said:
I'm not going as far to say Winston sucks, but there's no way I'm taking the dude in the first 2-3 rounds.

Imo, there's one QB that might be worthy of a first round pick and that's Mariota.

Unless something drastic happens, he'll be a Buc in a few months
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Winston will go in the 1st round I am sure. I do agree that the Bucs are going Mariota unless that drastic thing happens. That drastic thing would be Mariota staying for his senior year because he doesn't want to go to Tampa or demanding a trade ala Elway or Eli Manning.

For the record, I have changed my mind. As a season tix holder of the Bucs I am on the draft Mariota bandwagon. The system thing scares me but I would rather root for him.

I do feel bad for Glennon and would love to see the Texans pick him up. Glennon is a good guy and deserves a shot to start somewhere. At worst he will be one of the best backups in the league however I think he is already better than some staters right now, including what the Texans are throwing out there.
 
From an evaluation standpoint, I actually thought this was the best Winston has looked in quite some time.

He's had better games statistically, but most of his numbers tend to come off of chunk plays by wide open receivers.

This was the first game where the opponent was able to take away Greene and O'Leary, forcing Winston to actually have to go through progressions in the offense. He threw the one INT but it wasn't his fault. The only real negative play he had the entire game was the fumble.

His #1 reads only accounted for 7 catches and 63 yards. Contrast that with his RBs, who accounted for 9 catches and 95 yards. He spread the ball to eight different receivers.

Despite getting walloped, I actually come away from this game feeling a little better about Winston than I did before. My big issues for him are:

1) I don't know about his ability to go through progressions, because he is never really forced to. - He did a really good job in this game of going from #1 to #2 to #3.

2) He isn't consistently precise or accurate. - This was the first game in a while where he was forced to thread the needle consistently and I thought he did very well. He made a lot of NFL throws in that game, more than I've ever seen him forced to make.

3) He makes bad decisions under pressure or when his #1 receiver isn't open. - He made a lot of throws to his #2 read, and when neither #1 or #2 was open he dumped the ball to his RB instead of forcing it into coverage, which is what he typically does.

Based on the way that the game played out and the things that his coaches were asking him to do, I think this game is the closest indicator we've seen of what he could look like at the next level. FSU lost but if this is the Winston that shows up in the NFL then he will have a shot at success. He really showed up for this game, the other team was just clearly better than his. Too many mistakes for FSU on both sides of the ball.

This was the first time I've watched Florida St and Winston's QB ability stood out to me more than Fisher's offensive coaching ability. Part of that is because Fisher is an offensive genius, but he is also a control freak and doesn't like to let his QB have responsibility. So the QB is just a cog like a point guard.

But Oregon forced his hand and schemed in a way that forced Fisher to put decisions in Winston's hands. This is the first time that this has happened and he didn't look like crap.
 
bah007 said:
From an evaluation standpoint, I actually thought this was the best Winston has looked in quite some time.

He's had better games statistically, but most of his numbers tend to come off of chunk plays by wide open receivers.

This was the first game where the opponent was able to take away Greene and O'Leary, forcing Winston to actually have to go through progressions in the offense. He threw the one INT but it wasn't his fault. The only real negative play he had the entire game was the fumble.

His #1 reads only accounted for 7 catches and 63 yards. Contrast that with his RBs, who accounted for 9 catches and 95 yards. He spread the ball to eight different receivers.

Despite getting walloped, I actually come away from this game feeling a little better about Winston than I did before. My big issues for him are:

1) I don't know about his ability to go through progressions, because he is never really forced to. - He did a really good job in this game of going from #1 to #2 to #3.

2) He isn't consistently precise or accurate. - This was the first game in a while where he was forced to thread the needle consistently and I thought he did very well. He made a lot of NFL throws in that game, more than I've ever seen him forced to make.

3) He makes bad decisions under pressure or when his #1 receiver isn't open. - He made a lot of throws to his #2 read, and when neither #1 or #2 was open he dumped the ball to his RB instead of forcing it into coverage, which is what he typically does.
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Good analysis, which is why I wouldn't mind if we took him. He seemed to make tougher throws than Mariotta did.
 
Doubt Winston slips to Texans meaning if O'Brian wants him Rick Smith has to start making calls. Around what pick would y'all support such a move?

Been thinking about moving up four spots to get Parker, that alone would cost Texans a 3rd. Imagine move into Top 10 a first. Top 5 1st & 2nd plus.....
 
santo said:
Good analysis, which is why I wouldn't mind if we took him. He seemed to make tougher throws than Mariotta did.
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He surely made tougher throws in this game than Mariota did, but I still like Mariota more as a prospect. Winston is not nearly as much more NFL ready than people think he is.

From the perspective of a college football fan, this game was a disaster for Winston and Florida St. But from the perspective of scouting guys to the next level, this was a very solid performance for Winston. One of his best on the year.

However, in the 14 games they played this season I thought Winston looked like a NFL QB in about five or six of them. That's not consistently good enough. And one solid performance against a superior team is not enough for me to just ignore everything else that I've seen this year.

I would still take Mariota first. The guy is just flat out fundamentally sound in every area. He is just raw.
 
bah007 said:
He surely made tougher throws in this game than Mariota did, but I still like Mariota more as a prospect. Winston is not nearly as much more NFL ready than people think he is.

From the perspective of a college football fan, this game was a disaster for Winston and Florida St. But from the perspective of scouting guys to the next level, this was a very solid performance for Winston. One of his best on the year.

However, in the 14 games they played this season I thought Winston looked like a NFL QB in about five or six of them. That's not consistently good enough. And one solid performance against a superior team is not enough for me to just ignore everything else that I've seen this year.

I would still take Mariota first.
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Yeah, but getting Mariota would take an RG3 type deal to make it happen. Too bad that he didn't declare last year. If Winston falls to us, then I wouldn't have a problem if Houston decided to take him, but I don't want them to trade up to get him either.
 
bah007 said:
He surely made tougher throws in this game than Mariota did, but I still like Mariota more as a prospect. Winston is not nearly as much more NFL ready than people think he is.
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This is why I asked the question a while back comparing him to EJ Manuel. To the eyeball, it looks like a "pro system" but Ej Manuel was definitely unprepared to be a QB at this level.
 
santo said:
Yeah, but getting Mariota would take an RG3 type deal to make it happen. Too bad that he didn't declare last year. If Winston falls to us, then I wouldn't have a problem if Houston decided to take him, but I don't want them to trade up to get him either.
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Feel the same way. I wouldn't trade up for either.

I thought Bortles and Bridgewater were both better prospects last year than Mariota is this year. But he'll go early because he's the best available.

Personally, I wouldn't draft Winston. But I've seen enough to understand why someone would. I wouldn't cry if we took him but I wouldn't be confident at all that it's going to work out.
 
bah007 said:
He surely made tougher throws in this game than Mariota did, but I still like Mariota more as a prospect. Winston is not nearly as much more NFL ready than people think he is.

From the perspective of a college football fan, this game was a disaster for Winston and Florida St. But from the perspective of scouting guys to the next level, this was a very solid performance for Winston. One of his best on the year.

However, in the 14 games they played this season I thought Winston looked like a NFL QB in about five or six of them. That's not consistently good enough. And one solid performance against a superior team is not enough for me to just ignore everything else that I've seen this year.

I would still take Mariota first. The guy is just flat out fundamentally sound in every area. He is just raw.
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Great post. MSR.

A lot of people are saying that Winston is much more NFL ready because of his offense, but if you watch FSU play you will see Winston in shotgun more than you see him under center and his coach is still calling the offense. Yes Winston makes audibles or adjustments at the line, but these are adjustments that are built into the plays. This isn't Andrew Luck or Teddy Bridgewater basically calling the offense on the field. It's just the QB running Fisher's offense. E.J. Manuel and Christian Ponder did the same thing at FSU and they were completely unprepared for the NFL game.

Agree on Mariota. He has all the tools, he just needs development in some key areas. I will say that I have watched Mariota a lot and that 1st half of the Rose Bowl was the worst I've seen him look. Very inaccurate in that 1st half. He rallied in the 2nd half but the game got out of hand so quickly that he wasn't really forced to make any tough throws.
 
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