Blake
MMQB
A QB can still throw the ball from outside the pocket. The entire idea is to protect a QB while in a defenseless position, which is the act of throwing. Once he passes the LOS then you can be assured he is a runner only.
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James Harrison's illegal helmet to helmet hit on Colt McCoy
- Thread starter Dread-Head
- Start date
A QB can still throw the ball from outside the pocket. The entire idea is to protect a QB while in a defenseless position, which is the act of throwing. Once he passes the LOS then you can be assured he is a runner only.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
the clip in this thread makes it look way worse than it really was. It's easy to call it a dirty hit looking at it in super slo-mo but you've got to remember this stuff is happening in split seconds. Sure the ball was already gone but lets not act like the ball was waaayyy long gone to where Harrison had time to pull up. It was released a split second before the hit. Harrison or any other defensive player would've already likely committed to hit him since McCoy didn't assume the "qb-give-up" slide position. Plus, how many times have you seen a qb pump faking to get a guy in the air? It's ridiculous how much these new NFL have been slanted towards the offensive players & it's even worse how they are arbitrarily enforced by refs.
Yesterday Manning's hit on Simpson in the end zone should've technically been a penalty as Simpson was outstretched & defenseless in the air when Manning hit him...No flag of course b/c he caught it & was unhurt. But had Simpson gotten hurt on that play & Manning had hit him anywhere up top, that yellow flag would've come out & it would've been 1st down on the 1.
A big part of defense is intimidation & with these new rules the NFL has effectively taken a huge part of that away from defenses.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
I saw the play live, watched it several times on the DVR, seen the highlights, etc. The clip is zero'd in and slow down sure, and that's not what I made my opinion on, but it's still a dirty hit all the way around. The ball is gone, he takes a full step, leads with his head. It's not even debatable to me. If he hits him in the chest or anywhere else but in the head it's a clean play.
It's bang bang enough he can still lay him out, he just chose to use his head to do it with.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Pretty much yeah. Leave your ego in the locker room with your scrap book full of clippings of how you were the "greatest running QB" in college. That whole "I'm gonna run for it." schtick that served you well in the NCAA against teams 70 deep where MAYBE three would make it to the NFL DON'T WORK IN THE PROS BABY! Just ask Reggie Bush and if you can get a time machine ask Red Grange. Leave the pocket and you're saying (in best Samuel L. Jackson) "Go ahead muff-hugga. I dare ya...I DOUBLE DARE YA." Funny thing about guys like Harrison, Robinson, Polamalu, Reed and Ray Lewis they'll accept your dare. Mr Tebow will get his reality hit soon enough.
If London Fletcher gets a 15 yard penalty for a clean and legal hit on Tom Brady, Harrison should be banned for life in comparison*. Except that Colt McCoy isn't Tom Brady. He'd be done for the year if he hit Brady like this.
* -- not saying he should be banned for life, just pointing out how ridiculous that penalty on Fletcher was and how the NFL coddles its "elites" like Brady.
* -- not saying he should be banned for life, just pointing out how ridiculous that penalty on Fletcher was and how the NFL coddles its "elites" like Brady.
edo783
Hall of Fame
IMO, it is VERY clear that after watching the replay that harrison INTENTIONAlLy drove his helmet into Mc Coy's head. If this were were his 1st or maybe even his second infraction I would go with just a fine. in this case with as many time as this guy has done this, i would suspend him through the rest of this season and in this case well NOrTh of six figures in fines. I would recommend 250K. This guy is nothing but a thug and needs to be dealt with severally.
GlassHalfFull
Hall of Fame
per NFL network
1 Game Suspension
1 Game Suspension
TimeKiller
Guest
I guess Colt got hit in the wrong head?
James Harrison is a slug. He easily could've made a wrap up, form tackle. 1 game? How about the rest of the season?! Money and 1 game isn't going to stop him.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Well, the 1 game suspension ought to cost him about 250k in lost salary. I imagine that won't have any effect the way he hits people though.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I think it's quite obvious you don't know what you're talking about. Do us all a favor and stfu, moron
Part of playing defense is knocking the stuffing out of people. I agree that you can still hit hard and wrap up, but sometimes you have the opportunity to really dig off into someone and wrapping up does take away from that.
If you want to say that guys shouldn't hit guys as hard as they can or that guys should wrap up all the time ok. Make that a rule and you will eliminate a lot of the bone crushing hits. I have a feeling that rule is coming next.
Look at kareem's hit on roddy white. He smashed him and made no attempt to wrap up. A big difference though is that Kareem is shorter than roddy and it's easier for him to avoid the helmet to helmet.
The hit wasn't all that different except the heights of the players involved and the fact that Harrison hits harder. Kareem also led with his shoulder more, but his neck isn't as thick and strong as harrison's either.
Of course there are other differences, but my point is about the tackle itself. No wrap up attempted by either guy, they were trying to blow up the opponent.
Harrison has a bad rep, and he needs to know that qb's are going to be looked at differently regardless if they are thought to be runners it not.
But the fact that he didn't wrap up is not something new or exclusive to him. Most big hits in the NFL come when guys aren't wrapping up or performing solid blocking techniques. Yes on offense or special teams when you have those crushing blocks the are usually just like how Harrison or Kareem tackled. Lower your shoulder and head and launch yourself into a guy.
Folks are going to have their opinion if the hit, but I don't have a problem with the hit itself. If I were Tomlin my problem would be that he isn't being smart. He knows he's under microscope. He knows qb's are more protected than other positions. Be smarter than that.
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
Read his twitter feed. He says since he doesn't have to practice this week he's just going to hit the weights.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
I wonder if he regrets calling him Roger Fagdell yet?
Texaninlild
Veteran
Harrison made no attempt to lower his target area. Harrison (5'11") is probably 2"'s shorter, so height is not an issue. Colt is a relatively short QB, but most these days are 6'4" plus, so this guy has to go head-hunting many times.
He deserved the $250K vacation.
He deserved the $250K vacation.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Nope. He told Jerome Bettis he won't even attempt to avoid hits such as this and expects further fines and suspensions. That tidbit is going to come back to haunt him next time Goodell is deciding the appropriate punishment.
Goodell - "can you hear me now?"
He lowers his helmet to hit with the crown instead of lifting to go face to face. He was going for maximum impact on what he knows is an illegal hit since he has been fined for it multiple times before.
Goatcheese
Texan
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lol, you never get ready to "run through someone" & hit them face to face...In fact most guys getting ready to blow someone up do exactly what harrison did b/c they're bracing for the hit themselves. The head always comes down like that.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
73K is his game check.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
The Steelers just released the x-ray's of James Harrisons head.
As a Texan fan who's ALSO a Steeler fan I take issue. Mr Harrison's brain is nowhere NEAR that big!
Yeah...Harrison doesn't play for money. He's all about the "glory" of the game and the "big hit".
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Where did you hear that? I'm just looking at his contract numbers:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/1632/james-harrison-contract-details
I don't know if the bonus is included, but if it's not it should be around 215k per week (17 weeks), 268k if the bonus is included. Unless of course his salary changed or the contract was renegotiated.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Contract was re-negotiated sometime recently, they ran it on ESPN or NFLN and broke it down by the week/game check. Sorry.....no linky.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Spare me the instructional video defense...as the tackling dummies:
aren't running & changing directions in split seconds....
aren't changing their pad levels
& don't have arms to stiff arm you.
For these reasons & now the new rules, "the form tackle" is nearly impossible to execute in live game situations on a regular basis anyway.
Furthermore, i'd like to see you try to keep your head up & on the numbers or face to face with this running downhill right at you 15-20 times a game.
You'd eventually:
-get your neck broke.
-be out of a job b/c you're not making a form tackle up high on a guy like that
-be on a highlight reel.
In any event, it seems as though it doesn't matter how & when you hit a qb these days, you'll still get flagged for it depending on how the refs feel about it; Look no further than Tom Brady & London Fletcher this past weekend.
I stand by what i said. Harrison did nothing that most of these other defense guys wouldn't have...The only difference here is that it's a guy who's got a "history".
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah all these coaches who have said heads up for decades formed their opinions solely on practice dummies and have no idea about real game tackling. LOL - sure.
180 degrees wrong. Neck injuries are specifically why you are told to get your head up. Your neck is designed to move forward, back and side. It is not designed to be compressed.
Head up means that you don't hit with the very top of your helmet. That's called spearing. You should still be able to see the opponent.
But you are supposed to have your head slightly tilted. In fact, it's almost impossible to get low and attempt a tackle or hit and not tilt your head.
"head up" means you shouldn't be looking at the ground when trying to tackle. But you are supposed to lead with your hair line.
That's how most players make contact. From ball carriers to blockers to tacklers. You are slightly tilting your head and that is often the first thing that makes contact. Then you bring your hands.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
TimeKiller
Guest
I guess Colt McCoy runs as hard as Brandon Jacobs now....
Yeah, Kareem knocked the poo outta that receiver....except the big difference is that guy didn't have a mild concussion and KJ isn't getting fined or suspended. So take that however you like. Harrison could've hit McCoy with all his fire, knocked the poo outta McCoy by making a real tackle. Player safety begins with the player. He can act like it isn't his fault, it's just a game and Gooddell is some blow hard with power but the consequences are real. He and his broken orbital bone should know.
Yeah, Kareem knocked the poo outta that receiver....except the big difference is that guy didn't have a mild concussion and KJ isn't getting fined or suspended. So take that however you like. Harrison could've hit McCoy with all his fire, knocked the poo outta McCoy by making a real tackle. Player safety begins with the player. He can act like it isn't his fault, it's just a game and Gooddell is some blow hard with power but the consequences are real. He and his broken orbital bone should know.
Maybe I don't understand that last part, but you should tilt your head forward not backward.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No. Imagine yourself standing normally. If you look up your neck is contracting toward your back to tilt your view up. Vice verse for looking down. Same thing applies to the terminology and reality in tackling. Heads up is taught (a) for safety and (b) to keep your eyes on the play. If as is typical in tackling you are leaning forward rather than standing straight and you tilt forward you are looking even more toward the ground and taking your eyes off the play. Instead you heads up elevating your view to keep track of the play.
I just watched a bunch of Cushing highlights. You don't see that dude spearing guys. Perhaps that's why he doesn't get fined and suspended?... 
I think Harrison's public comments reveal his intentions. He's not hiding anything here.
I think Harrison's public comments reveal his intentions. He's not hiding anything here.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I remember so many in here in high favor of wanting to bring Harrison to this team after all of the scummy and cancerish things he said about his own teammates, but at the same time love to criticize dirty plays by different players on other teams. Lol!
Harrison is the last guy I'd want on my football team. I'm all for certain players with checkered pasts depending on what it is, but not a scumbag like Harrison. I draw the line with him.
Harrison is the last guy I'd want on my football team. I'm all for certain players with checkered pasts depending on what it is, but not a scumbag like Harrison. I draw the line with him.
Goatcheese
Texan
Exactly. He basically said he thought it was fine for him to go head hunting once the QB left the pocket.
He's going out there looking to hurt people. Dirty.
