htownfan32
Hall of Fame
I've watched him live for the past few years too. Don't agree. Little bit overrated? Sure. Not as much as you make it sound.
Joeckel was the better prospect, sure.
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Jake Matthews now #1
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
I've watched him live for the past few years too. Don't agree. Little bit overrated? Sure. Not as much as you make it sound.
Joeckel was the better prospect, sure.
Mr.Scarface
Rookie
#1 Tackle only benching 24 reps? A&M, what's up with your weight room?
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
This discussion has already gone on. Duane Brown only did 24 reps, iirc.
I'm going to quote Bah007, because he said it better than anyone else.
bah007 said:
Texian
Hall of Fame
If the Bench Press was a bad and ineffective as you and Bah think it is, you can rest assured that it would not be part of the NFL Combine drills.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Is Duane Brown the high water mark ?
bah007
Hall of Fame
I never said it was bad. I said it was an ineffective way to gauge power, as a max rep is a test of muscular endurance.
Has the combine changed at all ever since the NFL Network started showing it? It's about viewership now just as much as it's about the prospects.
If I had to guess I would say that the bench press stays in the routine because it is a glamour lift and probably the most famous weightlifting exercise that there is. The casual fan has no clue what a powerball toss is but say the words bench press and you're sure to get their attention.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If I was going to play it safe I would take Matthews . If I was going to take the guy I think is going to be a dominate player , I'd take Robinson .
bah007
Hall of Fame
I think Matthews is a future OG so with that in mind I would take Robinson without hesitation.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I'm not sure I wouldn't pick Robinson #1 if I were the Texans . Start him at RT for a few years and he may end up being the best LT in the NFL .
bah007
Hall of Fame
I'm not totally against it but it's my third choice behind Bridgewater and Mack.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I can see Teddy but I'm not sold on Mack . To me it's risky like taking Fisher over guys in better conferences .
bah007
Hall of Fame
It is a risk because you have less film to pull from. You have to take all his tape against inferior opponents with a grain of salt. But his tape against superior teams is equally good.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
You would have to have balls as big as church bells to take Mack at #1 .
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Not seeing it. Really like the kid, but not that early.
Scooter
Funky
i could probably put this in another thread, but a great example is here. i have a question for the draft guys because i'd really like to learn and better understand the process ... why do guys rise and fall? through much of the season and after the season, jake matthews was the #1 tackle and as the topic reads was the top overall prospect. a couple months after the season his stock has dropped a bit, even to where he's probably not best fit at tackle anymore. at the same time greg robinson is shooting up the boards. what happened after the games were played?
i change my mind by the second, if i can even get off the fence long enough to form a solid opinion - so i get the fluidity. i'm curious though what goes into the thought process of those who are giving this their full attention. is there more access to games? is it a better digestion of the tape? is it someone's opinion that catches fire and spreads?
what goes into the ups and downs for the people who do this for a hobby or even a living?
i change my mind by the second, if i can even get off the fence long enough to form a solid opinion - so i get the fluidity. i'm curious though what goes into the thought process of those who are giving this their full attention. is there more access to games? is it a better digestion of the tape? is it someone's opinion that catches fire and spreads?
what goes into the ups and downs for the people who do this for a hobby or even a living?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Matthews has been a high visibility prospect awhile & for good reason. He fits in a zone blocking scheme best where linemen are required to move in space. His measureable arm length combined with lower reps suggest he relies on being a technician. He is versatile, can fill several needs along the line in that system.
Robinson is more your prototypical LT with huge wingspan, lower body & torso strength who is nearly as fluid enough, but not a technician but shows willingness & understanding needed to keep improving. By time all is said & done I feel comfortable in saying he'll be NFL All-Pro tackle half a dozen times in his career before all is said & done.
As to why they move as much as they do when nothing really is happening is because there is so much football played prospects get lost in shuffle often times or play for smaller, lesser known schools. I follow year round to keep up but fall short simply because of time constraints & player access. Now we get to know them better, up close & personal.
This is also first time for coaches & staffs to spend time reviewing game tape to grade performance, verify & make corrections (need list). They are so busy playing catch-up with College game getting updated via scouting department & getting together for meetings, free agent meetings, post combine meetings, pro day meetings then their big board is constructed, prospects settled with final workouts & interviews.
That is my long winded version.
Short version as to why prospects rise & fall is naked exposure to medical concerns, verified size/weights etc, character/interview & background checks from former players/coaches to family & friends. Not to mention chemistry once you get to know a player better.
Scooter
Funky
great response, thank you. i'd like to hear from as many as possible in this regard as to what changes your mind personally. for a guy like me who doesnt watch much college ball and only does research on specific potential target players, word of mouth changes my opinion drastically because it points to players that i should look at more critically. i watch a bit of tape, look for very focused qualities such as punch, squat, reads/reactions, and lateral agility in this case of offensive tackles and make my decisions fairly quickly - and that assessment is unlikely to change. combine means zilch to me, because the only game changer would be the interview (or medical issues).
i chose this thread instead of the quarterbacks or another position battle because it's more of a rise and fall instead of a consistent back and forth on who's better. BL i know you've been very active in the draft for years as well as several others so i enjoy the thought process behind yall's decisions as much or more than the decisions themselves.
i chose this thread instead of the quarterbacks or another position battle because it's more of a rise and fall instead of a consistent back and forth on who's better. BL i know you've been very active in the draft for years as well as several others so i enjoy the thought process behind yall's decisions as much or more than the decisions themselves.
Great response. I learn a bit about the process myself.
I'll throw in something else I heard today that may factor in. When juniors declare for the draft, the scouts and coaches doing the evaluating have to go back and re-watch game tapes and maybe make some investigative calls to these juniors' coaches to get background info. Since they don't declare until after all the bowl games are done that means this "homework" has to be done between early Jan. and now. These additional re-evaluations - especially when we have the huge number of juniors we had this time - must, naturally, also result in adjustments to rankings.
A lot of people wanted Robinson to declare, but it wasn't a sure thing he would. A couple of guys here were telling me they would rate Robinson as the best OT in this draft if he came out.
Another thing... they're all under a whole new microscope now the season is over. They aren't just watching them play on Sunday. They are breaking down every snap & situation then comparing.
What they are doing before the draft.... working out & skipping media row at the Super Bowl, & things of that nature speaks to some of those intangibles everyone is so worried about. Combine results, pro days... a lot of stuff still to come.
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Another thing... they're all under a whole new microscope now the season is over. They aren't just watching them play on Sunday. They are breaking down every snap & situation then comparing.
What they are doing before the draft.... working out & skipping media row at the Super Bowl, & things of that nature speaks to some of those intangibles everyone is so worried about. Combine results, pro days... a lot of stuff still to come.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
First off, you have to remember that what you're seeing is the opinions of the DRAFT EXPERTS.
Those opinions are formed by
1) Their watching of tape. As they watch more tape on guys, their own opinions will go up and down.
2) What they hear other EXPERTS saying. They may hear someone say something and realize that they've got a guy too high or too low.
3) The opinions they hear trickling out of the various front offices.
4) Their estimations of how the teams are going to draft.
For the teams, this is a process. Each team's board may be very, very different because it's based on their team's needs, their estimation of which guys will fit in their schemes, and their estimation of where a player will be on OTHER teams' boards.
For the experts, they're trying to merge that all together to figure out where these guys are going to go. They have to try to figure out which teams are going to be interested in which players.
For the teams, they start chopping their lists down pretty early. The experts boards might have 400-500 guys on them while a team's board may only have 100.
What's more, the teams are throwing smoke screens out there. They don't want the other teams to figure out how they've got guys ranked and which guys they're targeting in each round. So they're feeding these draft experts both good and bad information.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I really got into the draft thing in high school,which was 86-90. Even though I played basketball,a lot of my friends were football players going to big time programs. We used to talk about the draft as they got further in their collge careers.
As I progressed and have stated,the combine is just part of the process. To me and and to my friends who are scouts and used to be scouts, no player rises or falls more than 1/2 a round at best. What the combine does is make u go back to the tape one way or the other. Scouts want to see if it matches either way.
Wth the social media and internet,everyone has a board,lol. Everyone claims you don't draft for need,but bpa. That's all in the eye of the beholder. Teams set up their board vertcal and horizontal. My board may look totally different from another guys and bpa is relative. I mean, no team truly takes bpa according to public. Its what the organization sees as bpa,that's all that matters.
In terms of matthews,I think he's gonna be a good pro. I think he's a technician and that will help him when most battles. If I'm stl and its between he and robinson,I take robinson? Why? He's more power in a division of power. When you have to block those fronts in the nfc west, a power tackle like robinson makes a lot more sense.
As I progressed and have stated,the combine is just part of the process. To me and and to my friends who are scouts and used to be scouts, no player rises or falls more than 1/2 a round at best. What the combine does is make u go back to the tape one way or the other. Scouts want to see if it matches either way.
Wth the social media and internet,everyone has a board,lol. Everyone claims you don't draft for need,but bpa. That's all in the eye of the beholder. Teams set up their board vertcal and horizontal. My board may look totally different from another guys and bpa is relative. I mean, no team truly takes bpa according to public. Its what the organization sees as bpa,that's all that matters.
In terms of matthews,I think he's gonna be a good pro. I think he's a technician and that will help him when most battles. If I'm stl and its between he and robinson,I take robinson? Why? He's more power in a division of power. When you have to block those fronts in the nfc west, a power tackle like robinson makes a lot more sense.
Much respect to you leebigeztx. Takes a big man to admit it took 5 years to finish highschool. No big thang, we can't all be born with average intelligence. Not saying you're not average intelligence, maybe you weren't good with tests... maybe you were distracted & didn't apply yourself.... it's no big thang.
I kid.
Much respect to you leebigeztx. Takes a big man to admit it took 5 years to finish highschool. No big thang, we can't all be born with average intelligence. Not saying you're not average intelligence, maybe you weren't good with tests... maybe you were distracted & didn't apply yourself.... it's no big thang.
I kid.
Must not have needed math skills where ever you went
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Much respect to you leebigeztx. Takes a big man to admit it took 5 years to finish highschool. No big thang, we can't all be born with average intelligence. Not saying you're not average intelligence, maybe you weren't good with tests... maybe you were distracted & didn't apply yourself.... it's no big thang.
I kid.
Dammit TPN, you beat me
it's okay though...
TK just had a minor brain
