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Is this the most talented team we've ever had ?
- Thread starter EllisUnit
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I honestly didn't think Tim Brown should make it and basically the only argument was longevity. That's not AJ. But damn not going to do this again. Particularly not agaimst Hopkins the shiny jump ball sideline catcher.
I agree, man. But, unfortunately, I'm not sure that HoF voters are all that informed. Dr. Doom should be in, but he's been ignored. Jerome Bettis is in, and I don't think he should be (same reason Brown got in, longevity).
My fear is that A.J. spending most of his career on an "expansion team" won't have the exposure and numbers. On any other successful team with good QB, he's a first ballot talent. I'm concerned that he gets Dr. Doomed by the voters, especially with a logjam at WR due to pass-friendly rules the past 10 years.
I'm not arguing that A.J. shouldn't be in. IMO, he's a no-brainer. But, I'm pointing out the reality of the fallacy of the HoF sometimes.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I get that but 2 of your 3 examples are people getting in. Doom I don't get for being left out. Bettis I quasi get for being in because for the 1st 5 years he had the most nimble feet of any even semi-heavy RB - then he became just a heavy back.
'eh, what Bettis had going for him was being an iconic Steeler for his generation, SB ring, popularity, and longevity and subsequent numbers. He was never the best RB during any given season and never held a single rushing title. I think they lowered the bar for an exception with Bettis. Terrell Davis was a better RB in his prime, but he lacks longevity/numbers.
As for Brown, he had to wait 5 years to get in. Imagine how many eligible receivers will be on the list by the time A.J. is on it around 2022 (or beyond, depending on when he finally hangs it up). The HoF doesn't average one WR per year, much less multiple receivers. A.J. will most likely be waiting. How long is the question. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. I hope so.
As for Brown, he had to wait 5 years to get in. Imagine how many eligible receivers will be on the list by the time A.J. is on it around 2022 (or beyond, depending on when he finally hangs it up). The HoF doesn't average one WR per year, much less multiple receivers. A.J. will most likely be waiting. How long is the question. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. I hope so.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You aren't remembering Bettis before he got to the Steelers. But like I said he was a meh for me.
I always figured him for a poor man's Christian Okoye
Bettis got in because of his last season. He did the John Elway and won a ring and hung 'em up.
With a lot of the voters a big part is whether you won any championships. And he won his right before he retired so that would stay fresh in their little heads.
Didn't hurt that he followed that up by getting on ESPN either.
With a lot of the voters a big part is whether you won any championships. And he won his right before he retired so that would stay fresh in their little heads.
Didn't hurt that he followed that up by getting on ESPN either.
Watching the Rams highlights, he's got a Beast Mode vibe earlier in his career. 'cak is right, I don't remember any of it.
I'm not upset he's in the Hall, rather my own perception is that he was one of those "cusp players". He sure fumbled a lot in the early half of his career, tho'.
Anyway, back to the original thread topic, this current roster certainly has the potential to be the best in Texans history. But, those kinds of evaluations are best left in hindsight, when we can compare season to season, and more specifically, season results.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Could it just be the lack of familiar names? Lots of folks were around earlier that aren't now...
To be sure I'm not part of the really old club of posters here, but there is a pretty familiar community that sticks here and lots that come and go throughout the years
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I also think another difference is AJ, in his prime, has always been considered a Tier 1 receiver... arguably the best receiver in the game. To people outside of Houston, Hopkins is considered a Tier 2 receiver. He's not considered in the same league with the Julio Jones and Antonio Brown's of the league.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Hopkins is a great NFL receiver. AJ was an all time great NFL receiver. Hopkims could possibly maybe make that stature. He ain't freaking close yet and this argument is stupid. We have a game to watch.
Maybe it's because it's hard to get excited about a wash rinse repeat not-ready-for-prime-time team.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
How's this comparison working out for folks now?
Really you Texecutioner? We have more talent on the team and coaching ("clearly you idiots who even want to have the slightest conversation about this") and yet lost miserably to your alternate (real) favorites.
F'k your verbose posts. The football acumen conveyed is the same skippimg over them as reading. Perhaps worse for the gullible but patient . (Now go back and read that again because I know you didn't get it the 1st time.)
Really you Texecutioner? We have more talent on the team and coaching ("clearly you idiots who even want to have the slightest conversation about this") and yet lost miserably to your alternate (real) favorites.
F'k your verbose posts. The football acumen conveyed is the same skippimg over them as reading. Perhaps worse for the gullible but patient . (Now go back and read that again because I know you didn't get it the 1st time.)
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Texans lose one game, and you're in here cursing and stomping your feet like you've been waiting like a rabid dog at the chance for some meat? Lol!
You come charging in here like you couldn't wait for them to lose a game just so you could defend some 2011.
Texans are 2-1, and I've seen them look this bad before and bounce back. The sky isn't falling, and my jimmies ain't rustled like yours are over a loss in weak 3 against a top team.
Fact is this if this is the most talented team then we fans should all be very sad.
Duane Brown sux
Duane Brown sux
Yes EMPHASIS on "YOUNG" and "UP AND COMING"
(So we don't leave the team plane stranded in New England and locked out of Houston, and consider it a "youth" issue.) This "talent" still has a ways to go from on the paper into real life obviously
And not at BEGINNING, but at END of year into postseason ...
deucetx
Rookie
Even ignoring last night...which isn't easy to do...I would say no. It's too early to even have this type of talk because the chemistry on this team from coaching to personnel is still shaky as can be. At this point I would say the team that reached the second round of the playoffs against the Ravens was the most talented because they worked together in fluid motion. If Schaub had been there I certainly see a different outcome to that game as it is. The run and passing games were perfectly aligned and the defense solid.
That team had an offensive line that was consistent and produced on the field. We got something out of the tight end position. Foster was more than just a running back but a receiving threat. We truly could come at you from various directions offensively. This team simply can not right now. Brock still has issues going through progressions, coaching is rather conservative and putrid at the moment, line is inconsistent as can be, we aren't working the underneath passing, etc., etc.
So yeah, let's hold off a bit and see how things play out because talent isn't just physical ability but mental and we have yet to show that.
That team had an offensive line that was consistent and produced on the field. We got something out of the tight end position. Foster was more than just a running back but a receiving threat. We truly could come at you from various directions offensively. This team simply can not right now. Brock still has issues going through progressions, coaching is rather conservative and putrid at the moment, line is inconsistent as can be, we aren't working the underneath passing, etc., etc.
So yeah, let's hold off a bit and see how things play out because talent isn't just physical ability but mental and we have yet to show that.
I don't mind the lost. What I do mind is the fact that a third string qb, a limping TE, and a team behind them have more confidence than supposedly our team that had more offensive weapons and a better defense.
Yeah it's one game, but the Texans didn't even show the same amount of competitiveness as their opponent. That's what irks me.
Just frustrating.
Yeah it's one game, but the Texans didn't even show the same amount of competitiveness as their opponent. That's what irks me.
Just frustrating.
Get that Kubiak luv'n crap out of here. Man up & just say you're in love with Gary Kubiak
Seriously... I get what you're saying. Regardless what you thought about Kubiak, there are serious flaws in this coaching staff. O'Brien says the right things. He conveys the right attitude, but when it gets down to it... somethings missing.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Talk to me again when they hopefully go 9-7 again.
We're in the 3rd year of 'offensive genius' and just scored 0 points.
But thank you for not writing 27 paragraphs in justification. Guess even you ran out.
Get that Kubiak luv'n crap out of here. Man up & just say you're in love with Gary Kubiak
Seriously... I get what you're saying. Regardless what you thought about Kubiak, there are serious flaws in this coaching staff. O'Brien says the right things. He conveys the right attitude, but when it gets down to it... somethings missing.
Yep, the hate for O'brien comes from the love of all things Kubiak.
What's missing is toughness, I still expect the Texans to win 10 games this yr and go out early in the playoffs. BOB is just starting to put together his offense and Os just started his 10th game rough patches are to be expected, especially with a beat up OL.
What bothers me though is the total unpreparedness and the lack of fight in this team. The Texans have to get tougher in the trenches if they ever want to be more than an afterthought as a true SB contender. Last night should be a wakeup call for the Texans (McNair's) to see how far the team is from being a true championship contender.
Exactly. I think it's just a huge letdown to have the hope that we have a team that can compete and stand toe-to-toe with an elite team, only to see them come out completely flat and apparently unprepared in every phase of the game.
Much has been said about fan reaction, but I think what we are seeing is not only air being let out of the hope balloon, but a giant *pop* of that hope balloon from over-inflation. I admit that I was overly optimistic, too. I expected something that I really had no basis to expect. This team has a lot of new parts, and is probably a year or two away from truly being able to go into a place like Foxboro and giving the Patriots a run for their money. In hindsight, I realize that my expectations should have been tempered and grounded in reality.
No more koolaide for me.
Would anyone be as upset as you are now had this happened in O'Briens first year?
Basically that's where he is with this offense. Would have been nice had he done it, rebuild this offense as he saw fit, three years ago, but he didn't. Circumstances being what they were, we didn't get to this point until now.
I'm not saying we should sit on our hands & wait three years before the offense is competitive. I'm saying wait till Thanksgiving. I'm not pulling that out my but, several times O'b mentioned you don't know what kind of team you have until Thanksgiving. We started at ground zero, there will be growing pains.
I'm not O'Briens biggest fan. I don't hate the man, I'm just taking a step back & letting him do his thing. I am confident this team will be a better team in 5 weeks.
Basically that's where he is with this offense. Would have been nice had he done it, rebuild this offense as he saw fit, three years ago, but he didn't. Circumstances being what they were, we didn't get to this point until now.
I'm not saying we should sit on our hands & wait three years before the offense is competitive. I'm saying wait till Thanksgiving. I'm not pulling that out my but, several times O'b mentioned you don't know what kind of team you have until Thanksgiving. We started at ground zero, there will be growing pains.
I'm not O'Briens biggest fan. I don't hate the man, I'm just taking a step back & letting him do his thing. I am confident this team will be a better team in 5 weeks.
It's not "hate". Not like the hate I saw towards all things Kubiak. It's deep disappointment.
And, over three seasons, he's earned it.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Exactly. I think it's just a huge letdown to have the hope that we have a team that can compete and stand toe-to-toe with an elite team, only to see them come out completely flat and apparently unprepared in every phase of the game.
Much has been said about fan reaction, but I think what we are seeing is not only air being let out of the hope balloon, but a giant *pop* of that hope balloon from over-inflation. I admit that I was overly optimistic, too. I expected something that I really had no basis to expect. This team has a lot of new parts, and is probably a year or two away from truly being able to go into a place like Foxboro and giving the Patriots a run for their money. In hindsight, I realize that my expectations should have been tempered and grounded in reality.
No more koolaide for me.
You sure, I was just about to make up another batch.....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
BS. OB came in free rein, didn't have a Carr to try to reinvent. This is on him.
I'm not denying it's O'Briens fault.
EVOLVIST
Kid A
Some good points, but to your last point, from a global perspective, it's cool that you're taking a step back and waiting (which very well might be the right thing to do); however, OB took a giant step back, before he even started with the way he handled the QB position, which was total crap. Here we are today. For all I know this could be a Superb Owl team, and at least OB has finally went all in with QB of his choice (as if he didn't choose the other QBs). That said, if we don't make the playoffs, or if we get bounced from the playoffs early, then I will be calling for OB's head because his early mistakes (big ones) have culminated into his ineptitude now.
To the OP's question. It can't be the most talented team we've ever had due to the offensive line, alone. On the other hand, you can't really make that call until the season is over, because that judgement call is a cumulative result.
He's still trying to rebuild a 2-14 team.
BTW, I'm as down on BOB as I've ever been. This team was totally out coached in every aspect of the game. Good news is atleast McNair finally got his QB. If Os is any good is the million $$$$ question.
More than record because the OL is injured and likely not to improve enough to be serious contenders, I will be judging BOB by the progress Os makes throughout the season. If BOB is fired after the season hopefully McNair has the sense to fire Rick too and eat the contract extension. (When pigs fly, the legend of Rick Smith will continue to be an albatross around this franchises neck.)
houstongrrl
Practice Squad
until brock proves that he is even half as good as matt schaub pre-mental breakdown, we arent in any way better than we were 2011 & 2012.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
OB was never rebuilding a 2-14 talent team.
And for God's sake stop hitting reply like a gerbil in need of food. Once and walk away.
For god's sake there was a person that liked that post. (Obviously not you.) But let's see since BOB has taken over, New LT/LG/C/RG/RB/TE/WR on defense new NT/LDE/ILB/OLB/CB/S. You should be praising the Texans orgs rebuild for staying competitive during the rebuild.
But thanks for giving me your opinion.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Someone liked one of your double posts, yay you. Stop hitting reply like a gerbil. They probably liked what you said not that you stutter.
Half the NFL changes in 3 seasons. Come at me with something non-dumb ass.
Half the NFL changes in 3 seasons. Come at me with something non-dumb ass.
Tell me how much turnover has the Pats/Packers/Steelers etc... had in the last 3 yrs. The Texans have had way more than most.
Speaking of dumb asses, how have you been doing?
BTW, Quite a few people have had issues with double posts since the board was updated. I'm not alone, you should start a poll.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I'm no longer a Texans fan but I still want to talk football or rant....That out of the way....
My disdain for OB as a coach has nothing to do with Kubiak. I wanted Kubiak gone for a while before it finally happened. Matter of fact I still don't like him as a head coach but he's probably grown some since leaving here.
As far as that **** show of a game this past Thursday, that was all about coaching. Period, the end. All the Oline stuff, Brock the lock, invisible Watt, fumbles....whatever.
If you switch the coaching staffs of those two teams and gave them the exact same available personnel Belichick would wipe his ass with OB again.
Belichick would've had that rookies head spinning and committing dumb mistakes and on offense he'd have marched the ball up and down the damn field.
The Texans won their first two games, BECAUSE of timely plays made by the talent on the field. The sorry ass Bears gave them all they wanted and that Chiefs game could've gone either way with a break here or there. The talent on this team is really good. Brock may not be an elite QB but he can win games against good teams with a damn coach that knows what they are doing.
OBs gameplan offense is **** and there is nothing innovative or game changing that he's doing. The most creative he got was the damn WattCat and that was the ugliest **** I've ever seen.
Other than that he's done nothing but make the playoffs in the AFC south when it was statistically THE WORST it's ever been.
There is something wrong at the core of the Texans organization. Coaches and players that are good in other places come here and look like crap. We rarely if ever get a guy who has underperformed elsewhere and then comes here and plays better. Seems like a whole lot of players over the years have come here and sucked. Not even been average. Just flat out SUCK.
That loss on Thursday was like thinking you are putting a fine piece of candy in your mouth only to bite down and realize it's candy coated feces and vomit. The only way that team gets better is if OB gets better. Gelling on offense, injured players coming back...that ain't gonna help.
No matter what team is made available this coaching staff is capable of being embarrassed on any given Sunday.
My disdain for OB as a coach has nothing to do with Kubiak. I wanted Kubiak gone for a while before it finally happened. Matter of fact I still don't like him as a head coach but he's probably grown some since leaving here.
As far as that **** show of a game this past Thursday, that was all about coaching. Period, the end. All the Oline stuff, Brock the lock, invisible Watt, fumbles....whatever.
If you switch the coaching staffs of those two teams and gave them the exact same available personnel Belichick would wipe his ass with OB again.
Belichick would've had that rookies head spinning and committing dumb mistakes and on offense he'd have marched the ball up and down the damn field.
The Texans won their first two games, BECAUSE of timely plays made by the talent on the field. The sorry ass Bears gave them all they wanted and that Chiefs game could've gone either way with a break here or there. The talent on this team is really good. Brock may not be an elite QB but he can win games against good teams with a damn coach that knows what they are doing.
OBs gameplan offense is **** and there is nothing innovative or game changing that he's doing. The most creative he got was the damn WattCat and that was the ugliest **** I've ever seen.
Other than that he's done nothing but make the playoffs in the AFC south when it was statistically THE WORST it's ever been.
There is something wrong at the core of the Texans organization. Coaches and players that are good in other places come here and look like crap. We rarely if ever get a guy who has underperformed elsewhere and then comes here and plays better. Seems like a whole lot of players over the years have come here and sucked. Not even been average. Just flat out SUCK.
That loss on Thursday was like thinking you are putting a fine piece of candy in your mouth only to bite down and realize it's candy coated feces and vomit. The only way that team gets better is if OB gets better. Gelling on offense, injured players coming back...that ain't gonna help.
No matter what team is made available this coaching staff is capable of being embarrassed on any given Sunday.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Strong post X. However what do Kubiak & O'Brian have in common?
McNair.
For some reason his expectations trickle down economics lay waste to any front office, medical team, coaching staff or player performance.
Hence Texans are not held accountable. They're just content to take your money, sit in box seats like fat cats they are because WE own NFL TEAM.
McNair.
For some reason his expectations trickle down economics lay waste to any front office, medical team, coaching staff or player performance.
Hence Texans are not held accountable. They're just content to take your money, sit in box seats like fat cats they are because WE own NFL TEAM.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I could do your reaearch for you once again but I won't. Proven you wrong 50 times in a row and you just keep on pulling crap out of your ass. Try for once in your life to prove you're right instead of demanding someone prove you wrong.
Scared, can't do it, wrong?
We both know the answer along with the fact your reply will be an attack on me rather than proof.
Be good.
If the post didn't seem to take immediately, don't hit "Post Reply" again, just refresh the page. You'll find the new post is right at the bottom. For some reason the Post Reply thing hangs up. It's there, but re-writing the page with the new post sometimes hangs things up. Just Refresh and you won't double post.
I don't really think this team is super talented. It has the talent of a 9 win team.
The OL sucks, the TE's suck, our second and third best WRs are rookies. Our RB is good but getting misused. The QB hasn't proven he's anything more than average.
Defense has a lot more talent though.
The OL sucks, the TE's suck, our second and third best WRs are rookies. Our RB is good but getting misused. The QB hasn't proven he's anything more than average.
Defense has a lot more talent though.