Is this the most talented team we've ever had ?

[Sonny]

Schaub had a good play action, but so what? It doesn't really matter when be had little accuracy beyond 25 yards and couldn't throw it far enough to hit flying receivers 9 out of 10 times.

 

[Uncle Rico]

I voted yes, mainly on the cohesion I see and the chemistry being achieved so quickly particularly on offense. Having great individual talent only takes you so far in football, I prefer 11 above average players on either side vs 2-3 'great' players and the rest "JAGS" ... so Im genuinely impressed so far. Offensive line is a big concern, but Oz is showing that he can deal with the rush and still deliver balls and scramble when needed.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Osweiler is better than Schaub in his prime and has a much higher ceiling. That is making the biggest difference right now out of anything. He puts the ball where it needs to be, 90+ percent of the time. Can't wait to see how he improves. BOB, next order of business should be to build an amazing line around him and we will be basically unstoppable. Protect him ASAP so he doesn't turn into a fetal-position QB like Schaub. We see this happening with Andrew Luck at the moment. Luck has been sacked 380 something times since joining the league. No one can last that type of punishment.

D-Hop and Fuller are the next best reasons we are succeeding right now.

Followed closely by our pass rush (Watt, Clowney, Merciless)

Those 3 reasons are why we are killing it.

Everything else is meh and total expendable.

Lamar Miller is pretty good, but nothing extraordinary so far.

I've yet to be impressed at all with Miller. I place a lot of blame on the online, but Miller hasn't helped much at all. He doesn't seem to have very good vision at this point. Maybe that'll change? Who knows

 

[sandman]

I've yet to be impressed at all with Miller. I place a lot of blame on the online, but Miller hasn't helped much at all. He doesn't seem to have very good vision at this point. Maybe that'll change? Who knows

One of his biggest strengths was being patient behind the line then bursting through a hole. This line really isn't giving him a lot of places to burst. He isn't a Blue that you have lower a shoulder into a lineman's ass for 3 yards and a cloud of dust. IMHO, I think they are still trying to figure out how to drive their shiny new toy with a patchwork OL, which has been underwhelming so far in run blocking.

 

[jradMIT]

Tough call between this team and 2011 Texans pre Matt Schaub injury.

That team could have won the Super Bowl with prime Schaub at QB instead of rookie Yates.

I agree, that team had a dominant O-line, AJ in his prime, and Arian was the best RB in the league that year, OD was still solid. This defense might be slightly better in the pass rush dept, and has better CB's, but that team healthy would have had Cush pre injury, Mario, Connor, Pre DMVP Watt, and better safeties Quinn and Manning. I think offensively that team was not as explosive, but with the O-line and Arian and AJ could pretty much move the ball at will and dominate T.O.P. The O-line and RB situation really give 2011 the edge to me, people forget how dominating Arian was that year, and how good the O-line was, if TJ wasn't so terrible and Jacoby an idiot, we win that game and go to NE.

 

[Texecutioner]

Schaub had a play-action fake that rivaled Manning. He may have been the best in his era as far as reading (and beating) mid and deep zone defenses. Our team was finally starting to form up when injuries made a mess of his career. It was no accident that Schaub lead the league in passing yards with Andre and Kevin Walter, nor that he was a ProBowl MVP. The past 20 years are littered with quarterbacks who have done worse than 'good Schaub' and won rings. He most certainly was capable of going all the way, sadly he only had 1 shot at it before his foot was turned into an accordion and his mind broke shortly after.

Your revisionist history is always hilarious. Trying to cite Pro Bowl MVP's as actual accomplishments? Lol!

He had a few good years, but no one other than Texans dreamers ever looked at Schaub as a guy that was going to put the team on his back in a post season run and go all the way. He was never that kind of guy that could play hard as hell when the chips were down or improvise well when things didn't play out perfect for him. He was the model trademark of a QB that needed everything to go well on the offense from a productive running game and great pass blocking for him to be successful. When things didn't go that way, Schaub always struggled and things never go that way in the post season for any team hardly. It damn sure wouldn't have for the Texans as they never had a dominant team that would have made it that way for him. He wasn't capable of pulling a Joe Flacco run which surprised people when the Ravens won. Flacco can improvise a lot better than Schaub ever could. Having a play action fake is not an accomplishment by the way either.

Folks forget that we began the year 11-1 and were Superbowl favorites before the season started.

Going 11-1 is not an accomplishment when 1-4 happens right after that. Lol!

Talk about trying to cherry pick sections of stats. That actually shows how soft and poorly coached they were to have been able to have won that many games, and then to completely fall apart where the running game struggled immensely due to poor blocking, and Schaub exposed himself as the guy who couldn't play well when everything else wasn't clicking at a high level. Finishing 1-4 on a season like that had fans all around Houston actually wanting TJ Yates back in there, and no one gave the Texans a chance going into the playoffs. They were pretty much a footnote at that point, and they were lucky to ge the Bengals in the first week where they could get a win, and once NE was up next week no one gave them a snow ball's chance.

This is a young team with all types of talent that will get to groom for years while other pieces will get added. That team fell apart and unraveled completely the very next year showing they were fool's gold from the start.

 

[jradMIT]

I've yet to be impressed at all with Miller. I place a lot of blame on the online, but Miller hasn't helped much at all. He doesn't seem to have very good vision at this point. Maybe that'll change? Who knows

I kind of agree with Miller, he just isn't making enough people miss in space, on that 3rd and 1 he was one on one with the defender, he has to be able to win that matchup and get that yard, he didn't. Im kinda down on him, he is fast, but haven't seen him do much else, especially in space.

 

[ObsiWan]

The defense is the best we've put on the field. No explanation required. Wade = RAC but RAC has a better selection of tools.

the offense, not so much. Speedy laid it out....

Schaub - Foster - Tate - Casey - Andre - Walter - K Martin - Daniels - Dreessen(2011)/Graham (2012)
Brown - Smith - Myers - Brooks - Newton

Osweiler - Miller - Blue - Prosch - Hopkins - Fuller - Miller - Anderson - Feido
Brown - XSF - Mancz - Allen - Newton

Potentially (and I hate that word) they could be better than the 2011/12 Texans.
- WR? Definitely more speed at WR. Whether that translates into sustained production remains to be seen. Looks pretty good now though.
- TEs? OD and Dreesen > Fiedorowicz and Anderson. Dreesen & OD combined for 9 TDs and 1000 yds. Don't anyone see that happening with Fiedo and Anderson? To be fair, I'm not sure if current lack of production is play calling or talent level.
- RBs? In 2011 Foster & Tate combined for over 2100 yds. Anyone see Miller and Blue matching that? I don't. Foster had 17 TDs and 1600+ yds from scrimmage in 2012. Can Miller do that. I think he can. IF the O-line shapes up.
- O-line? See RB production. Plus, in 2011 Schaub was only sacked once/game (on avg.).
- QB? Right now too early to call. 2011/12 Schaub had been in the same system for 4-5 yrs. Not fair to grade Osweiler yet since he's only been in this system for 2 real games. But if he shows year-to-year development like Schaub did, he could own all the Texans passing records when he hangs 'em up.

All that to say, right now, I vote no. But that's more a "show me" thing than a "no way in hell" thing.

 

[jradMIT]

I think it's more like 2 or 3 weeks from being an almost unstoppable team.

Slow down JamTex we need to blow out some people first. Still see some weaknesses against the Run, need to cover RBs/TEs better, this D is about 2.5 players away from being historic though, Still alot of improvement needed from Miller/Os/O-line, Brock can't turn the ball over like this. O-line needs to be able to impose its will on a front. Miller needs to do more in space. But its good that we can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and there are only a handful of things that need to be changed so that we can win any game anywhere.

 

[Texecutioner]

This is by far the most talented team the Texans have had. It's not even close.

People keep acting like this team is anywhere near their full potential. They're just getting started as one of the youngest offensive units in the entire league and the team had serious injuries to the Oline with guys who aren't even playing.

Demeco, Cushing, young Watt, Smith, young Jackson, younger Joseph, McCain, Manning.

This year : Prime Watt (Way better than a rookie Watt), Mercilious (Better than any player on that team), Clowney, (Who should be better than Smith if healthy) Older Cushing, Prime Jackson (Much better than Jackson of 2010 or 11), Joseph, Johnson (Better than any CB we had on that team), Bouye (Way better than McCain. Not even close), Wilfork, McKinney (Very good LB right now), Hal, and Demps (I"ll gladly take them over Manning and whoever else we had at saftey.

The only advantages that the 2010/11 Texans had was a better Cushing and a younger Joseph. Other than that, I don't see them better anywhere defensively. This pass rush is better and so is the secondary. Plus, we have WATT on this unit. The rookie version of Watt was nowhere near the one this unit has. Mercilious trumps any player on that team as well.

On offense:

Schaub, AJ, Walter, Foster, younger Brown,

2016 offense:

Oz, Hopkins, Fuller, Miller, Miller WR, older Brown,

The only parts that seem better here are Foster and the Oline. This year's Oline has injuries though, so it isn't that fair of a comparison until the season is over but that was pretty much going to be our weakness any way. The Texans couldn't rebuild that Oline in one off season when they had to get so many other weapons which they got. Johnson and Hopkins are a push, and Foster is better at RB but mainly due to the Oline. Outside of AJ/Hopkins the receiving core we have is light years ahead of what the Texans had back then. I'll take Oz over Schaub any day. Even this Oz. He looks like he has way more ways to improvise on plays and a much stronger arm. He looks like he has quite a bit of room to go before he hits his ceiling as well, so I'd gladly take him over Schaub.

 

[thunderkyss]

Osweiler is better than Schaub in his prime and has a much higher ceiling.

I'd love this to be true.

But we haven't seen anything to prove it to be. Not yet. Unless you're just taking a shot at Schaub, you're making way too many assumptions.

& I'm no Schaub fanboi... I just recognize Schaub did a damn good job, overall, while he was here. The man wasn't clutch for the most part. & I'm not seeing Osweiler as clutch either. 0-4 in the redzone yesterday & we threw the ball a lot in the redzone.

 

[jradMIT]

Any team led by Matt Schaub pre or post injury was not a team ready to contend in playoff atmosphere or in any important game on the national/big stage. Facts!

I disagree the Schaub injury year, that team overcome tons of injuries and would have had a bye or a real shot at HFA. If you look at the Ravens game, they flat out dominated the line of scrimmage, Yates had all day to throw his INT's, the D had 6 sacks. Arian was an absolute monster. They because of TO's. They could have beat anybody that year the the O-line and Arian, and that D-line. But with a rookie 3rd stringer not so much. People forget Schaub pre injury or average in post and pre injury together. Pre injury he was solid, and give time with the weapons they had would have been formidable anywhere.

 

[JB]

I disagree the Schaub injury year, that team overcome tons of injuries and would have had a bye or a real shot at HFA. If you look at the Ravens game, they flat out dominated the line of scrimmage, Yates had all day to throw his INT's, the D had 6 sacks. Arian was an absolute monster. They because of TO's. They could have beat anybody that year the the O-line and Arian, and that D-line. But with a rookie 3rd stringer not so much. People forget Schaub pre injury or average in post and pre injury together. Pre injury he was solid, and give time with the weapons they had would have been formidable anywhere.

Schaub was pretty good pre-injury... until it got to crunch time, then he folded like a wet blanket

 

[jradMIT]

Going 11-1 is not an accomplishment when 1-4 happens right after that. Lol!

Talk about trying to cherry pick sections of stats. That actually shows how soft and poorly coached they were to have been able to have won that many games, and then to completely fall apart where the running game struggled immensely due to poor blocking, and Schaub exposed himself as the guy who couldn't play well when everything else wasn't clicking at a high level. Finishing 1-4 on a season like that had fans all around Houston actually wanting TJ Yates back in there, and no one gave the Texans a chance going into the playoffs. They were pretty much a footnote at that point, and they were lucky to ge the Bengals in the first week where they could get a win, and once NE was up next week no one gave them a snow ball's chance.

This is a young team with all types of talent that will get to groom for years while other pieces will get added. That team fell apart and unraveled complete

Schaub wasn't exposed, he just was never the same post injury. He had a weak arm and needed his legs to throw, once the foot went bad he couldn't do it that year. I remember going to the game they lost to the Vikings and walking out know they had no chance despite being like 11-2, but pre injury Schaub with the 2011 squad could have won the Super bowl that year, especially since there was no overly dominant team.

 

[thunderkyss]

Any team led by Matt Schaub pre or post injury was not a team ready to contend in playoff atmosphere or in any important game on the national/big stage. Facts!

Except we had Arian Foster. Arian, the Defense, & Schaub made this team contenders.

 

[jradMIT]

Schaub was pretty good pre-injury... until it got to crunch time, then he folded like a wet blanket

You remember the bad, but what about the times he was clutch. The Redskins 4th down TD to AJ, The comeback win against the Chiefs at Reliant to name a few, people remember the bad, forget the good, he was more than capable with that team around him to win a super bowl.

 

[JB]

You remember the bad, but what about the times he was clutch. The Redskins 4th down TD to AJ, The comeback win against the Chiefs at Reliant to name a few, people remember the bad, forget the good, he was more than capable with that team around him to win a super bowl.

I was talking big games more than big moments.... 2011 for example.

 

[Texecutioner]

Schaub wasn't exposed, he just was never the same post injury. He had a weak arm and needed his legs to throw, once the foot went bad he couldn't do it that year. I remember going to the game they lost to the Vikings and walking out know they had no chance despite being like 11-2, but pre injury Schaub with the 2011 squad could have won the Super bowl that year, especially since there was no overly dominant team.

He was exposed then and every other time the offense couldn't block extremely well for him or have a running game that supported the PA plays. Without that, Schaub was very below average. He was a complete statue from a mobility standpoint, so he wasn't able to improvise well at all against a strong pass rush like many other QB's, and he wasn't a QB that could just put a team on his back for an entire half and throw his way to a win like I see other QB's do. Schaub flourished when our running game was strong where PA pass worked nicely, and when he had a ton of time to throw without taking a lot of hits. When all of those things came together well was when he was effective. When they weren't he became a disaster pretty fast. People forget that Schaub spent his first two seasons here on and off the bench due to injuries where he couldn't sty healthy. Overall when you look at his entire tenure here as a Texan he was fragile as hell, and without superior blocking he just wasn't a guy that could take you that far.

 

[ObsiWan]

I was talking big games more than big moments.... 2011 for example.

What big games in 2011? Schaub got hurt in game 10 or 11 I think.
That was the year Yates was under center when we won our first playoff game. We were 7-3 when Schaub got hurt. We finished 3-3 without Schaub. Two of those losses were in our bldg and the other was to the suck-for-Luck Colts.

 

[thunderkyss]

You remember the bad, but what about the times he was clutch. The Redskins 4th down TD to AJ, The comeback win against the Chiefs at Reliant to name a few, people remember the bad, forget the good, he was more than capable with that team around him to win a super bowl.

Doing it once or twice in six years isn't good enough, does not earn the "clutch" descriptor.

 

[Texecutioner]

Doing it once or twice in six years isn't good enough, does not earn the "clutch" descriptor.

Right! Lol!

He had a few clutch performance games here and there, but so does every starter that exists on a team for like 6 0r 7 years. That isn't representative of being clutch at all when you look at the entire tenure.

 

[Brisco_County]

The 2011 team would've only been average without its three best players (Foster, Johnson, Watt). That's a risky model where one key injury has a bigger impact on the entire team.

We currently have a good team where the talent is more distributed. Remove the three best players (Hopkins, Watt, Merciless, or whoever you consider the best), and we're still competitive. That's the kind of talent distribution you can trust to go deep into the playoffs.

And we currently have the best defensive backfield in team history.

 

[kingtexan]

The backup tackles were Rashad Butler and Cole Pemberton! Yeah... who?

Hey, dont sleep on Cole Pemberton ...

 

[kingtexan]

Is this the best team we have ever had ?

I think it will prove out to be.

It isn't at full health yet, but when we get there, and if we can stay healthy, we should be in the AFC championship game with a chance to win it all.

Cant wait for Thursday ...

 

[Scooter]

The 2011 team would've only been average without its three best players (Foster, Johnson, Watt). That's a risky model where one key injury has a bigger impact on the entire team.

Watt was a rookie and nowhere near the phenom we see today, and behind near the same offensive line Ron Dayne was averaging 4+ ypc in the system. Even Foster's backup Tate put up nearly 1000 yards. But, you're really going out on a limb by saying a team without it's 3 best players would be in trouble.

 

[Norg]

I throw this question out will this team be Better when O brien dumps all of the Kubes era players and gets his guys in 100%

Brown ,Newton,Cushing, Jackson, J joe

I would say JJ and Nuke but that would turn a riot in this town LOL

well if u look at the roster kubes era players are getting smaller and smaller maybe like 12 players

 

[Texecutioner]

Watt was a rookie and nowhere near the phenom we see today, and behind near the same offensive line Ron Dayne was averaging 4+ ypc in the system. Even Foster's backup Tate put up nearly 1000 yards. But, you're really going out on a limb by saying a team without it's 3 best players would be in trouble.

Revisionist history again. This team you keep describing did FALL APART that very season they went 11-1 which you keep trying to describe as a SB win here. They plummeted into a complete disaster going 1-4 at the end of the season. Then the very next year, the team goes 2-14 and Kubiak gets canned, so the evidence is on his side of the argument, because it happened. Just not exactly how he described. The team was total **** compared to how your nostaligic memory always likes to describe it. The 2010 team that had Yates playing for it looked a lot stronger actually.

 

[Texecutioner]

I think it will prove out to be.

It isn't at full health yet, but when we get there, and if we can stay healthy, we should be in the AFC championship game with a chance to win it all.

Cant wait for Thursday ...

Even KingTexan is on board with this team.

 

[Scooter]

Revisionist history again. This team you keep describing did FALL APART that very season they went 11-1 which you keep trying to describe as a SB win here. They plummeted into a complete disaster going 1-4 at the end of the season. Then the very next year, the team goes 2-14 and Kubiak gets canned, so the evidence is on his side of the argument, because it happened. Just not exactly how he described. The team was total **** compared to how your nostaligic memory always likes to describe it. The 2010 team that had Yates playing for it looked a lot stronger actually.

Why is it anytime I see 'ignored member' as the latest reply in a thread my immediate reaction is 'this idiot is probably quoting me and probably turning something I said into a Kubiak rant'? You never fail to disappoint, though again, it's creepy the way you follow me around.

 

[Texecutioner]

Why is it anytime I see 'ignored member' as the latest reply in a thread my immediate reaction is 'this idiot is probably quoting me and probably turning something I said into a Kubiak rant'? You never fail to disappoint, though again, it's creepy the way you follow me around.

Not really hard to do that when 80% of your posts are about Kubiak and 2011.

You can't help yourself from constantly writing a false narrative of the past to discredit this current team and the coaching staff. Your posts are always fun to read with how predictable they're going to be, because you can't stand it to see that all your ranting and hating on OB isn't working out as planned and that this team is headed into a great direction. You can put me on ignore all you want, but as long as you're writing the fictional revisionist failures that crashed and burned quickly here I'll be right there to refute it. You're starting to unravel again like you did last season when you went full tard on SteelBtexan and myself. Get used to it, because the Texans aren't going to crash and burn like you're hoping for.

 

[klockWork]

Wow. Two games into the season and you guys already comparing teams. Will there be a crack in the sky if we lose next week or the week after? Even if it's mid season where things are more materialized this still gets a wow from me. But alright, I'll take part of this game.

The only thing the 2011 has over this team is Arian Foster. Miller, while is an upgrade over Blue and Grimes, doesn't impress me. His vision is limited to only between the tackles. He has the speed to take chances outside but doesn't take it. Schaub 4700 passing season was his ceiling. Even if he never suffered that lisfrac injury his mind were too fragile to deal with the attrition of the defenses he would've encounter in the playoffs. Sorry guys, but nothing in Schaub's best days has ever convince me that he were more than a prolific passer. Osweiller is the wild card in this bunch. I say Os has a higher ceiling than Schaub because of his competitiveness and confidence in his players to make plays. Take for instance, Chief's best corner Peterson, was ballhawking all game long, picking off some and breaking up a few. But that didn't stop Brock from going back into his neighborhood play after play. That kind of ballsiness can either take us all the way to the SB or buried us somewhere in the playoffs.

 

[dream_team]

The OP's question was "most talented". Not "better team", "more potential", "more clutch", or "better coached". Just compare talent at that time, plain & simple.

 

[JB]

The OP's question was "most talented". Not "better team", "more potential", "more clutch", or "better coached". Just compare talent at that time, plain & simple.

Exactly! And when you look at all 53, there is no doubt it's the 2017 team...

 

[Texecutioner]

The OP's question was "most talented". Not "better team", "more potential", "more clutch", or "better coached". Just compare talent at that time, plain & simple.

Thank you.

And on defense it isn't even close. On offense the best Texans team before this one has one player above ours which is pretty much Foster, however I'm not even sure if Foster is more talented than Miller. He might be better than he was, but talent wise they are about on par especially since Foster wasn't even drafted.

 

[dream_team]

Exactly! And when you look at all 53, there is no doubt it's the 2017 team...

I know that's your stance, and it's a fair stance. But I see too many picking today's team based on potential or how the 2011 team folded in the end. I don't think those are fair arguments.

 

[Texecutioner]

I know that's your stance, and it's a fair stance. But I see too many picking today's team based on potential or how the 2011 team folded in the end. I don't think those are fair arguments.

Being that the team was the worst team in the league that very next season makes it completely fair. This team doesn't have to do that much to surpass anything they did.

 

[dream_team]

Being that the team was the worst team in the league that very next season makes it completely fair. This team doesn't have to do that much to surpass anything they did.

So what you're saying is we need to wait until 2018 to fairly compare 2016 vs 2011? We have the unfair knowledge of what happened in 2011 to sway our decision. We've seen this team play all of two games!

 

[dream_team]

Being that the team was the worst team in the league that very next season makes it completely fair. This team doesn't have to do that much to surpass anything they did.

Btw, are we comparing the 2011 or 2012 Texans? I thought we were talking 2011, which they went 12-4 the very next season.

 

[Texecutioner]

So what you're saying is we need to wait until 2018 to fairly compare 2016 vs 2011? We have the unfair knowledge of what happened in 2011 to sway our decision. We've seen this team play all of two games!

Where did I say that? This question is about talent. TALENT. I would have given you the same answer about this team before the season started. They're by far more talented on this team.

 

[Texecutioner]

Btw, are we comparing the 2011 or 2012 Texans? I thought we were talking 2011, which they went 12-4 the very next season.

Well that was the same roster was it not? For a team that some of you keep trying to act like was some all time great team, they didn't accomplish hardly anything at all. They won a bunch of regular season games and went into the tank at the end of the year, and then were the worst team in the league. Are you saying that you think this team will have anything close to that kind of fall off?

 

[Insideop]

The trouble with trying to make the assessments is assuming potential. I'm lower than anyone on Brock, but you pointed out where I put my hope over objectivity into the discussion (something I tried not to do) - what Brock CAN do against what Schaub DID do. Similar with Clowney and Simon vs Barwin and Reed. As for the receivers, you're certainly right about AJ - but Hopkins has hit 1500+ yards like AJ and has more TD's. Fuller has already proven himself better than Walter, and we're better at WR3 simply by not having Martin.

Edit: for Smith and Wilfork, the positional bias was the tie-breaker. I'm one of few who really appreciated how good Smith was for us, and it aggravated me to see him go. I'm a fan of the fat guy though (and I'm on record wanting us to draft Wilfork a million years ago), so what Vince does at NT has a slightly heavier favor from me than what Smith did at DE. We rushed 3 a few times today and Vince still put his guys in Alex's lap. No sack, no QB hit, but Smith had 2 of his lineman interfering with the throw.

Not that it will make you feel any better, but I'm sure Smith is OK with everything now since he picked up some "hardware" as a backup DE for Denver last year!

 

[dream_team]

Where did I say that? This question is about talent. TALENT. I would have given you the same answer about this team before the season started. They're by far more talented on this team.

You didn't say that directly... but your arguments against the 2011/2012 team(s) is the results of what they accomplished as a team that year or the next year. You mentioned that team went 2-14 the next season. Therefore, to compare apples-to-apples, we need to wait until 2018, to see how this current team does next season, to make a fair comparison. Using your own words, it's about the TALENT, not what the team accomplished. There's alot more than just talent that goes into a good/winning team.

Well that was the same roster was it not? For a team that some of you keep trying to act like was some all time great team, they didn't accomplish hardly anything at all. They won a bunch of regular season games and went into the tank at the end of the year, and then were the worst team in the league. Are you saying that you think this team will have anything close to that kind of fall off?

No it was not the same roster, and no one is saying they're an all time great team. My position in all of this is the 2011 team is more talented than today's team, but no where am I saying they were a better team. Once again... we're comparing talent, not team accomplishments.

 

[Texecutioner]

You didn't say that directly... but your arguments against the 2011/2012 team(s) is the results of what they accomplished as a team that year or the next year. You mentioned that team went 2-14 the next season. Therefore, to compare apples-to-apples, we need to wait until 2018, to see how this current team does next season, to make a fair comparison. Using your own words, it's about the TALENT, not what the team accomplished. There's alot more than just talent that goes into a good/winning team.



No it was not the same roster, and no one is saying they're an all time great team. My position in all of this is the 2011 team is more talented than today's team, but no where am I saying they were a better team. Once again... we're comparing talent, not team accomplishments.

Well you have no argument for that unfortunately.

 

[JB]

I know that's your stance, and it's a fair stance. But I see too many picking today's team based on potential or how the 2011 team folded in the end. I don't think those are fair arguments.

That's why I said 2017... it's about how you end the season, now how you look in week 2

 

[JB]

No it was not the same roster, and no one is saying they're an all time great team. My position in all of this is the 2011 team is more talented than today's team, but no where am I saying they were a better team. Once again... we're comparing talent, not team accomplishments.

Look at all 53 of the roster, plus the coaching staffs, not just a handful of starters

 

[EllisUnit]

I think overall including depth this is the most talented roster we've had. Yes that is including potential.

 

[thunderkyss]

It's not enough we've got to deal with disgruntled fans telling us the Jags are more talented, or tha every GM in the league is better than ours, we're arguing 2011 Rick Smith vs 2017 Rick Smith.

Stupid sht that don't matter.

 

[fiasco west]

On defense. No question.

D-line is stacked. 2 future HOF players (Wilfork, Watt) and two young players that are really finding their groove in Mercilus and Clowney.

A secondary that is also pretty impressive. Kareem, KJ, and JJ are all more than solid. The rest of the guys can hold their own at the very least.

The weakest part of our team are the LBs but to be expected, your team is going to have holes with how the NFL cap is set up.

On Offense I don't know. Definitely our best group of WRs, Andre never really had a true #2 guy but our old trio of Schaub-Foster-Johnson were pretty prolific. I think people forget how good they were, they would be in these shootout games with other elite offenses and just lose on not having another possession or two.

 

[powda]

I'll take this defense and overall roster depth.

I'll take this group of wr's.

I'd take that ol, that running game, that te production.

Pre injury Schaub was better then what Oz is now. Kubiak's schemes we're better though his game management was always questionable.

I'd have to look at the special teams unit to form an opinion.

 

[ObsiWan]

Well that was the same roster was it not? For a team that some of you keep trying to act like was some all time great team, they didn't accomplish hardly anything at all. They won a bunch of regular season games and went into the tank at the end of the year, and then were the worst team in the league. Are you saying that you think this team will have anything close to that kind of fall off?

Now you're flat out lying. Please find the post where anyone said the 2011 team was an "all time great team"
I'll wait.