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Is the Secondary fixed?

Is the Secondary Fixed?

  • It's even worse than it was last year.

    Votes: 11 42.3%
  • It's better than last year but it's still not good.

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • It's better than last year and needs work but should be fine for this season.

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • It's better than last year and will make the rest of the defense better.

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • OMG BEST SECONDARY EVER!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm too scared to have a take so I'll just choose this option.

    Votes: 2 7.7%

  • Total voters
    26

House of Pain

Knee-jerkless
We on TT, love to say how terrible is the OL and how all the OL coaches should be tared, feathered, and publicly shamed, but what about the secondary as whole?

I know some of you really wanted HB and wanted to keep KJax, but with the changes, what say you? Better? Worse? About the same?

I think that secondary is better than last year and should be okay this season. I think improvements to the physical makeup of this group will help as a whole. Probably will need to draft another CB next year after we draft a pass rusher.
 

Fred

Veteran
Lost HB and KJax (not counting Kevin Johnson). Added a bunch of "maybe, don't know, hopefully, probably not". So maybe, but I don't know. I'm hopeful its improved - but seriously, probably not.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I jumped the gun last offseason, thinking, well very confident after certain addition to the secondary. Oh how I was wrong. So I will play the wait and see game on this one.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Lost HB and KJax (not counting Kevin Johnson). Added a bunch of "maybe, don't know, hopefully, probably not". So maybe, but I don't know. I'm hopeful its improved - but seriously, probably not.
Kevin Johnson was the most important cog that failed last season. Bless his heart... he was supposed to be the kind of guy you can leave on an island giving you flexibility with how you use you Safeties & LBs.

But he got hurt & Sharice Wright ain't that guy. Kareem Jackson, bless his heart, ain't that guy.

& when you don't have that guy, you've got to have smart safeties. Mathieu, bless his heart, ain't that guy. Maybe Reid will grow into that guy.

Bradley Roby might be that guy. He didn't look like it last year, so I'm told.

I like KJax as a small safety, but I think his coverage skills are lacking. I used to defend him, but he hasn't developed into a top corner in this league.

I liked Body Calhoun in Cleveland. Not a top CB either, but solid.
 

banned1976

American
Zero depth in the secondary could rear its ugly head this year. The Texans needed to do a whole lot more for the secondary this offseason. MHO is that the Texans will need to win some shootouts in order to win more than 8 games because the secondary is going to get torched.

I believe the secondary is slightly worse than it was last year. Joseph is a year older, Roby is inconsistent, Gipson is ok, nothing special. And the rookie has a lot of work to do.
 

LikeMike

Veteran
The secondary just became a much bigger question mark. I have no idea if it is better or worse or just different. On paper, I'd say it is about equal, but I haven't followed the other players and it is a question of fit and scheme. Our secondary had three main problems last year:

1. allowed a ton of short, quick completions - part of this was a scheme thing, since we gave the opposing guys a ton of cushion because...
2. Deep ball could hurt us. KJax is great, but he ain't great at defending when his back is to the QB. JoJo is getting up there in age.
3. TEs killed us. None of our safeties or LBs could really cover them.

Maybe all of that has improved? Maybe we will play some more press coverage, because our safeties are better in coverage? Maybe we added some speed? Maybe we finally got that safety that can cover TEs? Maybe we will see a ton more missed tackles and easy completions... This area is just as difficult if not more to evaluate than the OL.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Kevin Johnson was the most important cog that failed last season. Bless his heart... he was supposed to be the kind of guy you can leave on an island giving you flexibility with how you use you Safeties & LBs.

But he got hurt & Sharice Wright ain't that guy. Kareem Jackson, bless his heart, ain't that guy.

& when you don't have that guy, you've got to have smart safeties. Mathieu, bless his heart, ain't that guy. Maybe Reid will grow into that guy.

Bradley Roby might be that guy. He didn't look like it last year, so I'm told.

I like KJax as a small safety, but I think his coverage skills are lacking. I used to defend him, but he hasn't developed into a top corner in this league.

I liked Body Calhoun in Cleveland. Not a top CB either, but solid.
You would have to be an idiot to depend on Kevin Johnson.

How many seasons has he played 16 games and he wasn't the guy you are describing when healthy. #Busty
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
The secondary just became a much bigger question mark. I have no idea if it is better or worse or just different. On paper, I'd say it is about equal, but I haven't followed the other players and it is a question of fit and scheme. Our secondary had three main problems last year:

1. allowed a ton of short, quick completions - part of this was a scheme thing, since we gave the opposing guys a ton of cushion because...
2. Deep ball could hurt us. KJax is great, but he ain't great at defending when his back is to the QB. JoJo is getting up there in age.
3. TEs killed us. None of our safeties or LBs could really cover them.

Maybe all of that has improved? Maybe we will play some more press coverage, because our safeties are better in coverage? Maybe we added some speed? Maybe we finally got that safety that can cover TEs? Maybe we will see a ton more missed tackles and easy completions... This area is just as difficult if not more to evaluate than the OL.
How did KJax come into the discussion?
 

LikeMike

Veteran
How did KJax come into the discussion?
I was talking about our problems last season - KJax was one of the players, that had a big problem with defending the deep ball and he is a player that was replaced on the roster by Roby. That's why I highlighted him. He was part of this specific problem and he is gone. Does that mean we will be better at defending the deep ball now with Roby? I have no idea. But KJax brought several other good traits to the team, like great tackling that may be missed now.

He was just one player I used to show, how difficult it is to evaluate, if this position is now fixed...
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Good man/press CBs are unlikely to be found just coming out of college. Probably a major reason for this void is the way college CBs are trained today to stay up with their man. In the NFL, it is mandatory that these type of CBs to be successful must be able to back pedal and quickly change direction (any direction) when needed. Colleges are now typically not teaching backpedaling..........they are teaching side shuffling.......a technique which makes it almost impossible to acutely change direction opposite of the direction they are facing. Good NFL receivers are savvy enough to take advantage of this technique every time.
 
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HaveMercy

Passing Through
It seems to me that the defensive backfield will still need help this year. However, if they can slow down the tight ends and quick crossing routes a bit, that may give the pass rush the extra time it needs to impact (imPACT!) the QB more often. I recall many instances of Watt & Clowney being oh so close.

At this juncture, I anticipate that Gaine will put a higher priority on the defensive backs in the next draft.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
I would think we should be better against TE's, but we still have nobody that comes close to matching up with the TY Hilton's of the world.

Also, Clowney is currently sitting out and our main depth rusher just tore his achilles so that doesn't help.
 

Dejaview

Rookie
It seems to me that the defensive backfield will still need help this year. However, if they can slow down the tight ends and quick crossing routes a bit, that may give the pass rush the extra time it needs to impact (imPACT!) the QB more often. I recall many instances of Watt & Clowney being oh so close.

At this juncture, I anticipate that Gaine will put a higher priority on the defensive backs in the next draft.
If so keep an eye on UT’s secondary. Tom Herman is a big fan of tall DB’s.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
It seems to me that the defensive backfield will still need help this year. However, if they can slow down the tight ends and quick crossing routes a bit, that may give the pass rush the extra time it needs to impact (imPACT!) the QB more often. I recall many instances of Watt & Clowney being oh so close.

At this juncture, I anticipate that Gaine will put a higher priority on the defensive backs in the next draft.
I can also remember many plays where the QBs could turn the callendar before needing to throw the ball.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
I was talking about our problems last season - KJax was one of the players, that had a big problem with defending the deep ball and he is a player that was replaced on the roster by Roby. That's why I highlighted him. He was part of this specific problem and he is gone. Does that mean we will be better at defending the deep ball now with Roby? I have no idea. But KJax brought several other good traits to the team, like great tackling that may be missed now.

He was just one player I used to show, how difficult it is to evaluate, if this position is now fixed...
KJax was never meant to be a deep ball defender. That was never his strength
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Agreed. And it sounds like OB's "complimentary football" speech.
B/c that's what it takes. Too many ways to exploit defenses with only 1 strength. D-linemen know they can't use 2-3 moves to get to the qb & the Lbs/DB's know that they don't stand a chance in stopping a passing attack consistently if the pass rush isn't disruptive.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
, but we still have nobody that comes close to matching up with the TY Hilton's of the world.

.
I don't know if every other team in the league has a guy who can match up with the Ty Hilton's out there. But there's a reason they play him, in particular, better than we do.

It's more than matching up with him. Something else breaks down. Inside help, safety over the top, something.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
KJax was never meant to be a deep ball defender. That was never his strength
Correct. The only reason so many mistakenly believe Roby replaces Kjax is because they forget Kjax, who was moved to Safety before the season began, was replacing Kjohnson who missed significant time the last two seasons.

Reid replaced Kjax at Safety.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Point of fact: We had too much wrong to fix it all with one draft. We chose to fix the OL this year and patch the secondary as best we could. I have no problem with that. Secondary will be the point of emphasis next year.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Point of fact: We had too much wrong to fix it all with one draft. We chose to fix the OL this year and patch the secondary as best we could. I have no problem with that. Secondary will be the point of emphasis next year.
Point of fact: we weren't limited to the draft.

They were dumbasses not to do more in free agency. Fine missed on the best LT. Lots of other players out there at other positions.
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Point of fact: we weren't limited to the draft.

They were dumbasses not to do more in free agency. Fine missed on the best LT. Lots of other players out there at other positions.
Dam good point, and I agree. But no problem with the direction they went once the draft was upon them.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Point of fact: We had too much wrong to fix it all with one draft. We chose to fix the OL this year and patch the secondary as best we could. I have no problem with that. Secondary will be the point of emphasis next year.
I imagine Gaine had the freedom to consider getting in a bidding war for an over-priced free agent. For a number of reasons we'll probably never fully know...and, if we did, a lot of folks on this MB would deplore...he chose not to go that route.

Gaine knows his job and all of the accompanying ins and outs far better than anyone here does. I can have an opinion about the way he does his job, but that's all it is: an opinion.

I want him to be a shrewd and calculating gambler. I don't want him taking risks without carefully weighing both the upside and the downside, short term and long term.

So, I agree with what Seegara posted (quoted above). Gaine could have done more, he could have done less. But I like the direction Seegara and I think he's heading.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
B/c that's what it takes. Too many ways to exploit defenses with only 1 strength. D-linemen know they can't use 2-3 moves to get to the qb & the Lbs/DB's know that they don't stand a chance in stopping a passing attack consistently if the pass rush isn't disruptive.
So true. I didn't mean for the comment about complimentary football to be sarcastic, but I guess the way I wrote it left my intention open to interpretation.

OB is right, as are your comments. To win consistently, complimentary football is required. As you pointed out in this specific discussion, a good pass rush helps the backfield defenders and good backfield defenders help the pass rush.

But it can't all be fixed in one off season. Gaine showed a real commitment to fixing the OL debacle this time around. We'll see how it works next off season, but I expect the DB's to be a major focus.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Not sure where this comes from. More could have been done.
You're right, more could have been done. But none of us really know why it wasn't, though a few posters think they do.

Without question, Gaine and his folks know far more about the situation, both macro and micro, than we know. I will not assert otherwise. So, the only pleasant choice I think I have is to trust that he knows what he's doing more than I know what I think he should be doing.

Giving Gaine the benefit of the doubt may not last forever, but it's where I'm coming from for now.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I was talking about our problems last season - KJax was one of the players, that had a big problem with defending the deep ball and he is a player that was replaced on the roster by Roby. That's why I highlighted him. He was part of this specific problem and he is gone. Does that mean we will be better at defending the deep ball now with Roby? I have no idea. But KJax brought several other good traits to the team, like great tackling that may be missed now.

He was just one player I used to show, how difficult it is to evaluate, if this position is now fixed...
I'm terrible at evaluating CB''s, hopefully Roby surprises me.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
Since Gaine has gotten here they have been even less active than under RS.

NFL careers and contracts are too short to be this passive.

And spare me the "they know more" defense. Someone said the same thing about every HC & GM on the dust heap of NFL history.
That's also been said about every successful HC and GM throughout NFL history. So what's your point? If that's been said about ALL of them, you've made a meaningless attempt to deride my statement.

It's obvious that Gaine et al aren't making the choices and moves you would make. I can accept that. But what I said is unquestionably true.

They DO know more about what's going on than you or I or any of us do.

Do we know which other GM's and Agents, etc., Gaine has talked to recently? No, we don't.

Do we know what input Cal is giving in his closed door conversations with OB and Gaine? No, we don't.

Do we have the inside scoop from player personnel people, doctors, trainers, and coaches about player X and what he might bring to the Texans? No, we don't.

I could keep going. But what I said is true: Gaine DOES know more than we do. What he does with that knowledge a lot of folks on this MB won't agree with, and that's okay.

I choose to remain Happy, Hopeful, and Hoptimistic. That's my predisposition. That's the filter through which I choose to see things. There would be a lot less heartburn if more folks here tried it.

As for the defensive backfield, it hasn't been "long term" fixed (whatever that means), but Gaine is shaking things up and it should be better than last year. Plus, I think it will get serious attention in the next draft and off season.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
That's also been said about every successful HC and GM throughout NFL history. So what's your point? If that's been said about ALL of them, you've made a meaningless attempt to deride my statement.
Any assertion which provides no differentiation should be derided.
 


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