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Is the OL fixed?

Is the OL fixed?

  • Yes, Watson will be among the least sacked QBs in the league

    Votes: 6 9.7%

  • Hell no, but I can't do anything about it.

    Votes: 56 90.3%
  • Total voters
    62
badboy said:
I think Roby and Joseph are better at their positions than any of our OTs. Robey is a man corner with speed which we haven't had ever IIRC which will be interesting if healthy.
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Agreed on 1st, doubtful on 2nd. Both came to the Texans @ 27 years old. Coming out JJo was a 4.31s 40 & Roby was 4.39.
 
infantrycak said:
Agreed on 1st, doubtful on 2nd. Both came to the Texans @ 27 years old. Coming out JJo was a 4.31s 40 & Roby was 4.39.
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True but Joseph was never a man corner, he's always excelled in zone. I don't know about Roby, but I have hopes
 
maverick512000 said:
Note I said "better part of the decade" BoB has been there better part of a decade at this point and since he has been there we haven't had a QB worth a damn except Watson and yes I believe the QBs we have had were BoBs pick. I think he bought his own hype about being a QB guru and thought that he could turn just about anyone into an elite QB. When they didn't work out Texans seemed to switch to lets win it with defense, whether that was a Smith call, a McNair call or a BoB call or all three is up for debate but we seemed to have invested more high picks overall in the defense.

This is my tin hat theory but I find it telling that the time Smith seemed to have gone rogue and drafted the QB he wanted that looked nothing like the kind of QBs BoB likes it did away with the classic excuse of "how can he hope to win when he has such bad QBs". Everyone talks about how bad at drafting Smith was, and there is valid argument, but again I wonder how much of that was Smith drafting and how much was the "joint decision". There are a lot of things I think BoB actually is good at as a coach, talent evaluation is not one.
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Yet the yr after the former GM was gone the Texans had one of their best drafts without 1st or 2nd rd picks.

BOB wanted Os? LOL
 
infantrycak said:
Totally incorrect narrative prior to OB. Kubiak always had a priority on OL. Out of the box tried to get bookend tackles with 3.65 & 3.66. Might have used 2.33 but they were shocked DeMeco fell to them. When things weren't coming along fast enough they got the best ZBS coach in the NFL. Spent a 1st on the 7th OT because he was built for the system. OLmen went from 6th round backups to probowlers.

The commitment went beyond the OL. Even with a sloth footed QB they moved the pocket. TEs protected the QB not by being sh!tty blockers but by being wide the fu@k open safety valves. Run oriented such that even with the league's leading rusher they spent a 2nd on a RB.

OB has spent more and achieved less. None of it is cohesive. Flexible mediocrity over honed excellence or square pegs in round holes. And the horizon is not bright. NOW we get a "blocking TE." They didn't see that need last season when he was also available? FFS if they aren't going to run a route stick an OT out there.

Now we are going to see if they have put themselves in such dire straits they draft out of desperation. Can someone explain why Ryan Griffin is still on the team?
Click to expand...

I can see you felt Kubiak needed a hanjob today.

11-5 and playoff wins as Texans HC. Tell me the records of both HC's?

Both were/are mediocre HC's.
 
infantrycak said:
Agreed on 1st, doubtful on 2nd. Both came to the Texans @ 27 years old. Coming out JJo was a 4.31s 40 & Roby was 4.39.
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I think Roby faster now and better man now than Joseph is now. Latter has played in man some but usually gives a cushion regardless of why.
 
What's the definition of "fixed" btw? Everyone probably has a different definition. And do we necessarily need a "fixed" OL to be a contender?
 
mws said:
Gary Kubiak
-------------
Season Record
82/75/0 .522
Playoff Record
5/2 .714
Superbowl Win

Bill O'Brian
-------------
Season Record
42/38/0 .525
Playoff Record
1/3 .250
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I didn't realize Kubiak won a SB with Texans, which is what I was talking about.

What was Kubiak's record in the playoffs with the Texans?
 
Gary Kubiak Texans Record
---------------
Season Record
61/64/0 .488
Playoff Record
2/2 .500

In my opinion you should judge a Head Coach by his complete body of work not cherry pick good or bad times.

Case in point. If you judge Belichick by his record at Cleveland alone both Kubiak & O'Brian are better coaches than he is.

Bill Belichick Browns Record
---------------
Season Record
36/44/0 .450
Playoff Record
1/1 .500
 
mws said:
Gary Kubiak Texans Record
---------------
Season Record
61/64/0 .488
Playoff Record
2/2 .500

In my opinion you should judge a Head Coach by his complete body of work not cherry pick good or bad times.

Case in point. If you judge Belichick by his record at Cleveland alone both Kubiak & O'Brian are better coaches than he is.

Bill Belichick Browns Record
---------------
Season Record
36/44/0 .450
Playoff Record
1/1 .500
Click to expand...

No cherry picking

Texans only record is apples to apples comparison.

They both had the same GM until last yr.

BTW, Belichick is the guy who got the Browns/Ravens started heading towards a SB win.
 
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mws said:
Gary Kubiak Texans Record
---------------
Season Record
61/64/0 .488
Playoff Record
2/2 .500

In my opinion you should judge a Head Coach by his complete body of work not cherry pick good or bad times.

Case in point. If you judge Belichick by his record at Cleveland alone both Kubiak & O'Brian are better coaches than he is.

Bill Belichick Browns Record
---------------
Season Record
36/44/0 .450
Playoff Record
1/1 .500
Click to expand...

No one is comparing Kubiak overall (who took a SB team back to the SB) to OB overall. And throwing in BB is non-sensical
 
JB said:
No one is comparing Kubiak overall (who took a SB team back to the SB) to OB overall. And throwing in BB is non-sensical
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People who do this lose credibility

There are plenty of reasons to not like BOB.

But comparing BOB to Kubiak (They are basically mediocre HC's) only means this guy like his koolaid in maroon flavors only.
 
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steelbtexan said:
People who do this lose credibility

There are plenty of reasons to not like BOB.

But comparing BOB to Kubiak (They are basically mediocre HC's) only means this guy like his koolaid in maroon flavors only.
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If you do overall as mws did, yeah.

Non-maroon guys see it more clearly
 
I never offered an opinion on who was mediocre or not. You asked for their head coaching record so I posted it.

But to give my opinion:
I don't think Kubiak was a good head coach. But I do think he is a much better offensive mind than O'Brian will ever live to be and if I'm stuck with either Kubiak or O'Brian calling the plays and running the offense I'll take Kubiak every time.
 
mws said:
I never offered an opinion on who was mediocre or not. You asked for their head coaching record so I posted it.

But to give my opinion:
I don't think Kubiak was a good head coach. But I do think he is a much better offensive mind than O'Brian will ever live to be and if I'm stuck with either Kubiak or O'Brian calling the plays and running the offense I'll take Kubiak every time.
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Kubiak is a better offensive mind, but OB is a better HC. Give me OB as HC and Kubiak as OC
 
DocBar said:
Since neither OB or Kubes play or coach OL, why are we talking about their records? I ((*&^^%$#@@!@$%^&*(()*&^^%%^$$%%^&*())_(_())(*&*^&%^& hate the off-season.
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You do remember how long it took some to quit talking about David Carr? It will not stop with regular season.
 
More I think about it the more I believe BoB is ultimately his own worse enemy and his management style, not coaching but management, is pretty much exactly what you see from any first time manager. Yes, yes he was a coach in college but this is the NFL and its his first gig as an NFL HC. For that reason he seems to feel like he has to do everything himself and nothing will be done right unless he does it himself. I've seen it more times than I can count from first time managers and usually it takes a higher up sitting them down and explaining that they can't wear all the hats and they have to give up trying to control every detail.

If I had one big knock against the McNair's its that they haven't done that and instead have let him micromanage the offense. They should have made him hire an OC 2 years ago. Best advice I ever got my first time as a manager was don't try to know everything about everything, just learn something about everything then surround yourself with people that know everything about one thing. Its a big part of BBs success, he is a good HC but a big part of that is he gets the very best coaches to work under him that he can.
 
maverick512000 said:
More I think about it the more I believe BoB is ultimately his own worse enemy and his management style, not coaching but management, is pretty much exactly what you see from any first time manager. Yes, yes he was a coach in college but this is the NFL and its his first gig as an NFL HC. For that reason he seems to feel like he has to do everything himself and nothing will be done right unless he does it himself. I've seen it more times than I can count from first time managers and usually it takes a higher up sitting them down and explaining that they can't wear all the hats and they have to give up trying to control every detail.

If I had one big knock against the McNair's its that they haven't done that and instead have let him micromanage the offense. They should have made him hire an OC 2 years ago. Best advice I ever got my first time as a manager was don't try to know everything about everything, just learn something about everything then surround yourself with people that know everything about one thing. Its a big part of BBs success, he is a good HC but a big part of that is he gets the very best coaches to work under him that he can.
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I agree with you.

Jimmy Johnson/Belichick disagree with you.
 
steelbtexan said:
I agree with you.

Jimmy Johnson/Belichick disagree with you.
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The last thing you could say about Jimmy Johnson was micromanager. He rarely interceded in the play calling. And most of those weren't on the play per se but on a statement he wanted to make, e.g. he wanted to make a statement after a turnover, would tell Norv "big play here." He told him the desired result not the specific play.
 
infantrycak said:
The last thing you could say about Jimmy Johnson was micromanager. He rarely interceded in the play calling. And most of those weren't on the play per se but on a statement he wanted to make, e.g. he wanted to make a statement after a turnover, would tell Norv "big play here." He told him the desired result not the specific play.
Click to expand...

True

Jimmy Johnson was involved in all levels of personnel decisions and did most of his work on the defensive side of the ball. Particularly after Wannstedt left.
 
maverick512000 said:
More I think about it the more I believe BoB is ultimately his own worse enemy and his management style, not coaching but management, is pretty much exactly what you see from any first time manager. Yes, yes he was a coach in college but this is the NFL and its his first gig as an NFL HC. For that reason he seems to feel like he has to do everything himself and nothing will be done right unless he does it himself. I've seen it more times than I can count from first time managers and usually it takes a higher up sitting them down and explaining that they can't wear all the hats and they have to give up trying to control every detail.

If I had one big knock against the McNair's its that they haven't done that and instead have let him micromanage the offense. They should have made him hire an OC 2 years ago. Best advice I ever got my first time as a manager was don't try to know everything about everything, just learn something about everything then surround yourself with people that know everything about one thing. Its a big part of BBs success, he is a good HC but a big part of that is he gets the very best coaches to work under him that he can.
Click to expand...

Maverick512000, that's an excellent comment. I really like the way you've expressed some (probably) hard-earned life lessons that fit a lot of scenarios, not just football. Thank you.
 
I wonder, what would suffice for most of you in the draft? What addition of talent would make you pause and think, we might be ok on the line?

For me, I need an Lt in the first 2 rounds and an oc/OG in our first 4 picks.

In preseason, I want to see Watson move through his progressions faster, at least 1 other linemen show marked improvement (dav, rank, martin,) 3 step play calls on 3rd and short, improved blocking from one of our te's, the threat of a swing pass or well executed screen to a rb, hard counts on 3rd down that slow a rush, and short routes on blitzes. I keep hearing about this thing called a slant route. Might be nice?
 
powda said:
I wonder, what would suffice for most of you in the draft? What addition of talent would make you pause and think, we might be ok on the line?

For me, I need an Lt in the first 2 rounds and an oc/OG in our first 4 picks.
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I don't care about order (but reserve the right to beotch about the individual picked) but hope to see the top 4 picks include 2 OL, 1 CB & 1 RB. Won't be bent if DL sneaks in based on how things fall.

The way things are mocking out, staying at #23, Jacobs or Dillard look like prime suspects.
 
infantrycak said:
I don't care about order (but reserve the right to beotch about the individual picked) but hope to see the top 4 picks include 2 OL, 1 CB & 1 RB. Won't be bent if DL sneaks in based on how things fall.

The way things are mocking out, staying at #23, Jacobs or Dillard look like prime suspects.
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Hope Dillard is there. I think greedy is it.
 
powda said:
Hope Dillard is there. I think greedy is it.
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Dillard @ #23 I have no problem. Greedy over Jacobs I will be slightly upset not because of position but because I think Jacobs is more talented.

banned1976 said:
Either/or would be fine with me. If Gaine goes anything but OL or CB, strictly BPA we’ll know he really is a BPA GM and all bets are off.
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Jacobs is still a need position & could pull a lot of pressure off Watson.
 
powda said:
Maybe reid was bpa.
Rankin was need.
Adkins was coaches pick.

Rinse and repeat. Is this their m.o.?
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I don’t know. Since O’Brien arrived I’ve been somewhat puzzled by some of their picks. With Kubiak I knew what he wanted to do on offense. I have no earthly idea what BoB wants to do. Just “the more you can do” tag line, code for versatility. I don’t want a left tackle that is known for being versatile. I want a left tackle that is exceptional at playing left tackle. That’s it.
 
banned1976 said:
I don’t know. Since O’Brien arrived I’ve been somewhat puzzled by some of their picks. With Kubiak I knew what he wanted to do on offense. I have no earthly idea what BoB wants to do. Just “the more you can do” tag line, code for versatility. I don’t want a left tackle that is known for being versatile. I want a left tackle that is exceptional at playing left tackle. That’s it.
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Agreed. I'm working purely off last year's draft. (And guessing.)

Bpa.
Need.
Coach pick.

Recycle in no particular order.
 
infantrycak said:
Dillard @ #23 I have no problem. Greedy over Jacobs I will be slightly upset not because of position but because I think Jacobs is more talented.



Jacobs is still a need position & could pull a lot of pressure off Watson.
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I like Greedy

You sure are high on Jacobs, who would you compare him too?
 
steelbtexan said:
I like Greedy

You sure are high on Jacobs, who would you compare him too?
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I hate comparisons. Use historical ones and sh!t goes into over sell or under sell. If I mention balance and Emmitt there will be howls of rage. Pick someone recent, like LZ said Sony Michel, and it's unproven.

He's an every down RB in my low center of gravity style, catches easily so safety valve threat, can stick & go, patient which is something rarely seen in a Texans uniform, gets the last yard out of a run (like DD always milked one more body length), has some zone stretch/cut in him. So yeah, I like him.

What don't you like?
 
powda said:
I wonder, what would suffice for most of you in the draft? What addition of talent would make you pause and think, we might be ok on the line?
Click to expand...

I don't know & wouldn't know. Years past I would have gone through all the names that have popped up since January. Watching highlights, analysis, game film, to kind of form my own opinion. But this year, I'm just not feeling it.

I'm very close to thinking, with these clowns it just doesn't matter. I know talent is an issue. I know we haven't invested prime capital on offense until recently... but I'm starting to think there was a reason for that.

With Gibbs, it wasn't necessary. With Devlin it's a waste of resources.

So yeah, I'll be excited & pleased if we draft OL with three of the first four picks. But I bet we won't be happy with them, any of them, just two years from now.
 
infantrycak said:
I hate comparisons. Use historical ones and sh!t goes into over sell or under sell. If I mention balance and Emmitt there will be howls of rage. Pick someone recent, like LZ said Sony Michel, and it's unproven.

He's an every down RB in my low center of gravity style, catches easily so safety valve threat, can stick & go, patient which is something rarely seen in a Texans uniform, gets the last yard out of a run (like DD always milked one more body length), has some zone stretch/cut in him. So yeah, I like him.

What don't you like?
Click to expand...

I like him, just not in the 1st rd. He's a well rounded back, My comparison for him would be Ajayi with better hands. Best case scenario would be Kareem Hunt or maybe Dalvin Cook.

2 things give me pause, 1. He couldn't beat out Damien Harris for the starting job. 2. I have a bias against drafting Alabam RB's before the 3rd rd. Look at how many of them have washed out.
 
banned1976 said:
I don’t know. Since O’Brien arrived I’ve been somewhat puzzled by some of their picks. With Kubiak I knew what he wanted to do on offense. I have no earthly idea what BoB wants to do. Just “the more you can do” tag line, code for versatility. I don’t want a left tackle that is known for being versatile. I want a left tackle that is exceptional at playing left tackle. That’s it.
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Agree. Nail down one spot and that means less fiddling with the line.
Ultimately you want 5 guys that don't need to be constantly moved around trying to find their fit and this gives a chance for cohesion on that line to form.
A cohesive unit of even average guys might only give you an average line but if that puts us in the middle of the pack then that lifts our line substantially from where it is now.
 
powda said:
I wonder, what would suffice for most of you in the draft? What addition of talent would make you pause and think, we might be ok on the line?

For me, I need an Lt in the first 2 rounds and an oc/OG in our first 4 picks.
Click to expand...
I want a serious effort at addressing the OL. The draft is always a hit or miss stategem, but I want to see the effort by the organization.

My wish list is an OT in the first, any one of five: William's, Dillard, Taylor, Little or Risner.

One of our two seconds to be a C/OG: Lindstrom or McGovern. Also Elgton Jenkins, but he may be a bit of a reach in the second.

Our third to be another tackle, but one who may not be expected to start: Tytus Howard or Max Scharping.

I do not believe in "best player available". There is no such thing. What there are, are bubbles of players all graded out closely for areas where each draft pick falls. For this draft, we need to draft for position of need and our number one need, in my opinion, is offensive line.

Draft boards are subjective and no two are exactly the same, and almost all are changing right up to the day of the draft. The drafting guide that I like has the players I named falling in the draft position bubbles of our picks.

What one should take away from my wish list is not so much the individual players I wish for, but rather the strategy of a top heavy draft of offensive linemen to address what I consider our primary need.
 
Number19 said:
I want a serious effort at addressing the OL. The draft is always a hit or miss stategem, but I want to see the effort by the organization.

My wish list is an OT in the first, any one of five: William's, Dillard, Taylor, Little or Risner.

One of our two seconds to be a C/OG: Lindstrom or McGovern. Also Elgton Jenkins, but he may be a bit of a reach in the second.

Our third to be another tackle, but one who may not be expected to start: Tytus Howard or Max Scharping.

I do not believe in "best player available". There is no such thing. What there are, are bubbles of players all graded out closely for areas where each draft pick falls. For this draft, we need to draft for position of need and our number one need, in my opinion, is offensive line.

Draft boards are subjective and no two are exactly the same, and almost all are changing right up to the day of the draft. The drafting guide that I like has the players I named falling in the draft position bubbles of our picks.

What one should take away from my wish list is not so much the individual players I wish for, but rather the strategy of a top heavy draft of offensive linemen to address what I consider our primary need.
Click to expand...

I would like to see OT/CB in the first and CB/OT/CB/DL i the second
 
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