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Is Pearce the answer at RB2?

House of Pain

House of Pain

Wild Speculator
If this has already been posted or this is the wrong thread to post this in, Mods, please combine with that respective thread if need be. I apologize for the inconvenience.

I would like to start by professing my admiration of DP. You want a guy like this on your team. His teammates and coaches love him. I would want nothing more than to see him succeed in the NFL, especially on our team. He runs and plays hard every snap, and everything I've heard he works extremely hard in the offseason. On a personal level, he strikes me as a humble, decent person. Please don't interpret the rest of my post as that I'm "hating" on him because I think he would be a great compliment to Mixon.

I've heard many fans point to his performance in the last game (4 carries, 4 yards) attributed to having bad blocking from the O line. Pearce may have not had clean lanes and holes to run through. He may have not our starting OL when he played. But do we really want to rely on a guy that requires everything to go perfect for him to get average production? Akers and Jordan played with worse talent (on both sides) and seemed to do just fine to get at least 2-3 yards per carry, even on plays that weren't executed properly. Also, CJ was still in the game so the defense definitely had to worry about the pass more than when Mills, Boyle or Lord Keenum was in the game. If this was in the "dead zone" era of Texans football (2020-2022), then I would have no problem holding on to him and hoping he develops. (It should be noted that I think this is more of a scheme fit issue with DP, and not a failing as him as a player. Some players don't have the vision required to play in the zone scheme.)

If this team truly has championship aspirations (either Superb Owl or AFC), we cannot afford to have any player that is a feel good story or "I hope he develops" running with the "Ones" or "Twos." We can't keep him at RB3 because I'm pretty sure that Ogunbowale has the spot locked up for ST reasons. Unless DP shows something in this TC or the preseason, I would move on from him and try to improve that position. I guess we could possibly keep 4 RBs, but at what cost to the rest of the roster? Do we have to get rid of one of the WRs, DLineman, or possibly the FB or a TE because we "hope" that he improve? Championship teams don't do that. I know we're excited about the future, but realistically, we don't know how many shots we're going to get with all this talent? Didn't we think that 2012 was going to be foundation that we were going to build on and the next step was the AFC championship game? Things change quickly, ask the Bills or Bengals. A couple of key injuries at the wrong time and that window slams shut.
 
I posted my thoughts elsewhere on DP and the RB room more generally. I think his ability as KR gives him a good chance to make the roster but could also see him being traded to a team running more power.

As it relates to last Saturday, I saw the end zone view in slo-mo. On 3 Carries, the right side of the line did him no favors. Reed and Broeker weren’t in unison, missed blocks, etc. it wasn’t good. On those even the best backs are maybe getting a couple yards. Just poor blocking.

BUT…on the fourth carry the line had it blocked up perfectly. He was again running right and the line created a north-south cutback lane. All he needed to do is shift from pressing the line to the right, and make a sharp cut straight north. Easy 8-10 yard gain available. Instead he kept pressing slowly right..one step, two steps, three steps…cut cut cut for god sakes take the cut north! Instead he was tentative and stayed behind his blockers and landed in mo man’s land.

It’s one carry, but it just showed me he hasn’t gotten it yet. Foster would have run for 10 yards on that carry. I think DP ended up with maybe 2.
 
House of Pain said:
If this has already been posted or this is the wrong thread to post this in, Mods, please combine with that respective thread if need be. I apologize for the inconvenience.

I would like to start by professing my admiration of DP. You want a guy like this on your team. His teammates and coaches love him. I would want nothing more than to see him succeed in the NFL, especially on our team. He runs and plays hard every snap, and everything I've heard he works extremely hard in the offseason. On a personal level, he strikes me as a humble, decent person. Please don't interpret the rest of my post as that I'm "hating" on him because I think he would be a great compliment to Mixon.

I've heard many fans point to his performance in the last game (4 carries, 4 yards) attributed to having bad blocking from the O line. Pearce may have not had clean lanes and holes to run through. He may have not our starting OL when he played. But do we really want to rely on a guy that requires everything to go perfect for him to get average production? Akers and Jordan played with worse talent (on both sides) and seemed to do just fine to get at least 2-3 yards per carry, even on plays that weren't executed properly. Also, CJ was still in the game so the defense definitely had to worry about the pass more than when Mills, Boyle or Lord Keenum was in the game. If this was in the "dead zone" era of Texans football (2020-2022), then I would have no problem holding on to him and hoping he develops. (It should be noted that I think this is more of a scheme fit issue with DP, and not a failing as him as a player. Some players don't have the vision required to play in the zone scheme.)

If this team truly has championship aspirations (either Superb Owl or AFC), we cannot afford to have any player that is a feel good story or "I hope he develops" running with the "Ones" or "Twos." We can't keep him at RB3 because I'm pretty sure that Ogunbowale has the spot locked up for ST reasons. Unless DP shows something in this TC or the preseason, I would move on from him and try to improve that position. I guess we could possibly keep 4 RBs, but at what cost to the rest of the roster? Do we have to get rid of one of the WRs, DLineman, or possibly the FB or a TE because we "hope" that he improve? Championship teams don't do that. I know we're excited about the future, but realistically, we don't know how many shots we're going to get with all this talent? Didn't we think that 2012 was going to be foundation that we were going to build on and the next step was the AFC championship game? Things change quickly, ask the Bills or Bengals. A couple of key injuries at the wrong time and that window slams shut.
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Id agree and say great teammate, great work ethic, and good POWER runner...just doesnt fit with what we are doing here....hope the best for him going forward but we need all the roster spots for players that are going to contribute to this teams goals.
 
Porky said:
I posted my thoughts elsewhere on DP and the RB room more generally. I think his ability as KR gives him a good chance to make the roster but could also see him being traded to a team running more power.

As it relates to last Saturday, I saw the end zone view in slo-mo. On 3 Carries, the right side of the line did him no favors. Reed and Broeker weren’t in unison, missed blocks, etc. it wasn’t good. On those even the best backs are maybe getting a couple yards. Just poor blocking.

BUT…on the fourth carry the line had it blocked up perfectly. He was again running right and the line created a north-south cutback lane. All he needed to do is shift from pressing the line to the right, and make a sharp cut straight north. Easy 8-10 yard gain available. Instead he kept pressing slowly right..one step, two steps, three steps…cut cut cut for god sakes take the cut north! Instead he was tentative and stayed behind his blockers and landed in mo man’s land.

It’s one carry, but it just showed me he hasn’t gotten it yet. Foster would have run for 10 yards on that carry. I think DP ended up with maybe 2.
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I haven't been on the board for a while and I missed this, sorry if I jacked your post. I think that probably a good amount of fans share our sentiments.
 
Thorn said:
Cam Akers, if he can stay healthy, which I doubt seriously he will, would be a batter backup RB than Pierce. But if Pierce ever finds again his ability run like he did as a rookie, then he'd be the better back. Ifs buts and maybes.
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Yes, this is correct. It also doesn't feel great knowing that more than likely Mixon is going to miss a couple of games during the year. It would kill me if this team couldn't establish a running game due to injury or ineptitude, considering they knew these problems were likely so early in the offseason.
 
Honestly unless one of the rookies steps up or they find someone after cuts, the depth at RB is a big issue. Pierce doesn’t fit the scheme, who knows what Akers has left after not one but two Achilles, and Ogunbowale has never done much of anything.
 
Thorn said:
Cam Akers, if he can stay healthy, which I doubt seriously he will, would be a batter backup RB than Pierce. But if Pierce ever finds again his ability run like he did as a rookie, then he'd be the better back. Ifs buts and maybes.
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I guess something we haven't touched on much is that Pierce lost weight to go into 2023, then lost more weight going into 2024. So the 2022 version of Pierce that was so difficult to tackle, doesn't really exist atm.
 
cland said:
I guess something we haven't touched on much is that Pierce lost weight to go into 2023, then lost more weight going into 2024. So the 2022 version of Pierce that was so difficult to tackle, doesn't really exist atm.
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I mentioned this too, and I think it was Badboy that swore that he gained weight last year and then lost some this year. That was not my recollection, and at least one other person remembers it the same way. Right now he's on the island of misfit toys. He lost weight to better fit the scheme physically...but his mentality is all power...which he now doesn't have the body for. He's like a John in the box or a raggedy Mandy doll.

The best thing that can happen for him personally is a trade to a power team. I think the Cowboys run power and they could use some help at RB. They are WAY more RB needy than the Texans. Pick up the phone and speak with Jerrah. Might get a 6th or some kind of pick swap - DP and a 6th for a 4th back (maybe). Not sure what the market is right now to be honest. Recency bias would say...not a whole lot.
 
Porky said:
I mentioned this too, and I think it was Badboy that swore that he gained weight last year and then lost some this year. That was not my recollection, and at least one other person remembers it the same way. Right now he's on the island of misfit toys. He lost weight to better fit the scheme physically...but his mentality is all power...which he now doesn't have the body for. He's like a John in the box or a raggedy Mandy doll.

The best thing that can happen for him personally is a trade to a power team. I think the Cowboys run power and they could use some help at RB. They are WAY more RB needy than the Texans. Pick up the phone and speak with Jerrah. Might get a 6th or some kind of pick swap - DP and a 6th for a 4th back (maybe). Not sure what the market is right now to be honest. Recency bias would say...not a whole lot.
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Agreed, I think the best we do is to use him in a "trade" so that we don't have to wait for the waiver wire on a player that's going to be cut.

Back to the weight thing, here's an article showing that he lost weight for 2023 and we agree that he lost more in 2024. In the zone-scheme and primarily this offense I don't think shedding weight does him any good. The Texans aren't in need of a home-run hitter that goes long if he sneaks through the line untouched, we need a a guy that can churn out 7-yard runs and break-through arm tackles consistently.
 
Porky said:
I mentioned this too, and I think it was Badboy that swore that he gained weight last year and then lost some this year. That was not my recollection, and at least one other person remembers it the same way. Right now he's on the island of misfit toys. He lost weight to better fit the scheme physically...but his mentality is all power...which he now doesn't have the body for. He's like a John in the box or a raggedy Mandy doll.

The best thing that can happen for him personally is a trade to a power team. I think the Cowboys run power and they could use some help at RB. They are WAY more RB needy than the Texans. Pick up the phone and speak with Jerrah. Might get a 6th or some kind of pick swap - DP and a 6th for a 4th back (maybe). Not sure what the market is right now to be honest. Recency bias would say...not a whole lot.
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Now that Jerry owns the most valuable sports franchise in the world he just might be willing to make a trade to strengthen his product.
 
He's not grasping it and some rbs just can't do it. It was a main reason why Slayton as a rookie could run for 1200 and Reggie Bush didn't fit. You have to be very, very disciplined and trust the cutback or keep it outside.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
If Pearce doesn’t show more during camp or preseason, it might be worth exploring other options to strengthen RB2 and avoid potential roster headaches.
 
Pingto said:
If Pearce doesn’t show more during camp or preseason, it might be worth exploring other options to strengthen RB2 and avoid potential roster headaches.
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True but I think a 1-2 punch of Mixon and Akers with young jordan on the PS and Ogun on ST's and is a decent runner in this scheme compared to DP...I think that will be enough to carry us through the season
 
I’m not writing off Pierce yet…but the window is closing. Both he and Metchie need to show up and show out tomorrow. Both are trade candidates as well. If the season was ending tomorrow, I see Akers as the clear #2.

Of course they will scan the waiver wire and seek sensible trades as well…so it’s a fluid situation.
 
Porky said:
I’m not writing off Pierce yet…but the window is closing. Both he and Metchie need to show up and show out tomorrow. Both are trade candidates as well. If the season was ending tomorrow, I see Akers as the clear #2.

Of course they will scan the waiver wire and seek sensible trades as well…so it’s a fluid situation.
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What more do you need to see? He has zero vision, and Slowik is not changing his scheme just so a failing RB can look decent. Time to trade him or cut him loose. He’s a waste of a roster spot .
 
Mangler said:
What more do you need to see? He has zero vision, and Slowik is not changing his scheme just so a failing RB can look decent. Time to trade him or cut him loose. He’s a waste of a roster spot .
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That’s a little harsh to me. He has value as a KR and ST more broadly. Remember he busted one for a TD late last year. If he is the 3rd guy he won’t get many snaps on offense anyway. He also only had 4 Carries this PS behind a makeshift line. I want to see him with the first teasers before drawing any final conclusions.

That said as stated, he is a release or trade candidate if he doesn’t show improvement. This is what PS is for. Let it play out…
 
Mangler said:
What more do you need to see? He has zero vision, and Slowik is not changing his scheme just so a failing RB can look decent. Time to trade him or cut him loose. He’s a waste of a roster spot .
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Slowik in his most recent presser actually did say they're going to be playing more gap and it's actually taking Akers some time to learn and adjust to that.
 
Wrote this in October. Feel like it still applies and would fall into this discussion well.

JWLCASPER​

Waterboy​

CloakNNNdagger said:
This is not speculation! Pierce was drafted for a power scheme. Our run scheme has gone solidly to the ZBS. Pierce's forte is right up the middle of the gut. You hardly see him run to the outside.
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Let me stretch out the football fingers.
Damn I missed you all. Let’s talk about scheme and vision here for a moment.

@CloakNNNdagger is right here and it’s something that is frustrating to watch but a part of staff/roster turnover with new regimes. Pierce is an excellent Power Running back and would excel with Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New England, etc. Coming out of Florida - his vision was one of the things that worried scouting departments (not his natural ability). As a firm supporter of a ZBS/Shanahan/Kubiak/Slowik offense, vision is imperative to making the running scheme work, and why numerous “less talented” backs excel (because of exceptional timing / vision / understanding of what the offensive line is doing against certain fronts.) Watching Arian Foster / Terrell Davis / Clinton Portis run the ZBS Stretch is one of the most beautiful forms of football artistry. I repeat, this is not what Pierce is - he is a battering ram that is told to run in A gap, and he runs in A gap hard.

Singletary would be a better running back in this system, but I think the Texans brain trust (NC) is trying to justify the Pierce pick as well as keeping with status quo of shown talent from prior regimes. Looking ahead, I would love to see the the Texans select Trey Benson out of Florida State who is known for and has shown exceptional vision and one cut ability. I also like Raheim Sanders out of Arkansas as a physical specimen with superb balance and ability to pick running lanes out of a ZBS.

Pierce moving forward would be much better as an inside zone threat out of Shotgun (most of what he did at Florida) and as a pass blocker or as our 12 personnel back on double team blocking runs where he knows he is picking either of the A gaps or potentially a B gap at most. Asking him to choose his lane is asking for what we have seen - running into the back of offensive lineman.

I’m ecstatic that our offense is back in the Shanahan family tree - as I have studied it in depth for much of my adult life - and it’s one of the most beautiful forms of football ever created.

@steelbtexan When I disappeared for this last year I almost latched on with San Francisco in their contract department. They ended up going with an in house candidate but I was one of three finalists out of roughly 200 people. I was John Lynch’s favorite candidate and we hung out in his office for quite a while watching practice while he dipped and listened to Country Music. I never felt more at home haha. Getting that “no” and that they were going another direction was one of the toughest no’s I ever received - and I didn’t want to move to California anyway - but was going to do it for the opportunity of working with the best ran organization in football. Having Demeco and Slowik here has reinvigorated my Texans fandom, and damn it feels good.

Hope all the Texans family here is well and it’s time to catch back up with you all.

JWL
 
JWLCASPER said:
Wrote this in October. Feel like it still applies and would fall into this discussion well.

JWLCASPER​

Waterboy​


Let me stretch out the football fingers.
Damn I missed you all. Let’s talk about scheme and vision here for a moment.

@CloakNNNdagger is right here and it’s something that is frustrating to watch but a part of staff/roster turnover with new regimes. Pierce is an excellent Power Running back and would excel with Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New England, etc. Coming out of Florida - his vision was one of the things that worried scouting departments (not his natural ability). As a firm supporter of a ZBS/Shanahan/Kubiak/Slowik offense, vision is imperative to making the running scheme work, and why numerous “less talented” backs excel (because of exceptional timing / vision / understanding of what the offensive line is doing against certain fronts.) Watching Arian Foster / Terrell Davis / Clinton Portis run the ZBS Stretch is one of the most beautiful forms of football artistry. I repeat, this is not what Pierce is - he is a battering ram that is told to run in A gap, and he runs in A gap hard.

Singletary would be a better running back in this system, but I think the Texans brain trust (NC) is trying to justify the Pierce pick as well as keeping with status quo of shown talent from prior regimes. Looking ahead, I would love to see the the Texans select Trey Benson out of Florida State who is known for and has shown exceptional vision and one cut ability. I also like Raheim Sanders out of Arkansas as a physical specimen with superb balance and ability to pick running lanes out of a ZBS.

Pierce moving forward would be much better as an inside zone threat out of Shotgun (most of what he did at Florida) and as a pass blocker or as our 12 personnel back on double team blocking runs where he knows he is picking either of the A gaps or potentially a B gap at most. Asking him to choose his lane is asking for what we have seen - running into the back of offensive lineman.

I’m ecstatic that our offense is back in the Shanahan family tree - as I have studied it in depth for much of my adult life - and it’s one of the most beautiful forms of football ever created.

@steelbtexan When I disappeared for this last year I almost latched on with San Francisco in their contract department. They ended up going with an in house candidate but I was one of three finalists out of roughly 200 people. I was John Lynch’s favorite candidate and we hung out in his office for quite a while watching practice while he dipped and listened to Country Music. I never felt more at home haha. Getting that “no” and that they were going another direction was one of the toughest no’s I ever received - and I didn’t want to move to California anyway - but was going to do it for the opportunity of working with the best ran organization in football. Having Demeco and Slowik here has reinvigorated my Texans fandom, and damn it feels good.

Hope all the Texans family here is well and it’s time to catch back up with you all.

JWL
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That makes absolute ZERO sense. Why would Caserio be “trying to justify” drafting Pierce if he drafted him for an entirely different scheme/coaching staff?
 
Going to be interesting to see the Akers vs DP battle today against the giants. Really hoping Akers shows out and that the team remains healthy
 
House of Pain said:
But do we really want to rely on a guy that requires everything to go perfect for him to get average production?
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Personally I'm not saying everything has to be perfect for Pierce to be productive, only that it is difficult to tell if he's learning the system or not when it doesn't look like the OL has the "system" down well enough to be consistent.

I'm saying with what I remember from last season & so far this preseason I'm expecting Joe Mixon will probably average a whole yard less than his career average.

If the Texans move on from Pierce, I'm OK with that. If they don't I'm OK with that. But more than anything I want to see this OL working the way we believe it should. I want to see those bootlegs to work like they should. So far, it's not even close.

Cj Stroud is a dangerous man. Imagine if they get those big plays with the bootleg.
 
Thorn said:
Cam Akers, if he can stay healthy, which I doubt seriously he will, would be a batter backup RB than Pierce. But if Pierce ever finds again his ability run like he did as a rookie, then he'd be the better back. Ifs buts and maybes.
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I haven't seen Pierce catch the ball enough to have formed an impression. But I already think Akers & Jordan are huge improvements in that area. I can't see Pierce making the team at the expense of those two.

Maybe they can stash Jordan on the practice squad... but I'd rather he be on the 53.
 
I was looking at the Texans Roster and I was surprised at the ages of some of the RB's...

Like Jawhar Jordan and British Brooks are both older than Pierce. Jordan just turned 25 a few minutes ago and Brooks will be 25 in a couple of months. Pierce is going into his 3rd year and will not be 25 until after this NFL season ends. I can see why the staff has been so patient with him...He's shown the ability on this level for an entire season and he's also still young. He's younger than the two rookie RB's we brought in.

Another oddity to me was that Dare Obungawale will be 31 before Joe Mixon turns 29. I don't know why I thought Mixon was in his 30's and Dare was a younger player.

And just extra some bits, When Stroud and Will Anderson are entering their 6th years in the league they will be the same age that rookie Max Tooley is right now, which is 26. Tooley will be 30.

And the craziest thing to me that I didn't really realize is that some kind of way Danielle Hunter is entering year 10 and he's still in his 20's. He came into the league on some basketball type stuff...Young AF....
 
British Brooks had 2.5 times more yards in this game on 5 carries than Pierce has had in 2 games on 8 carries.

I know it’s different talent throughout the game and all, but take out Pierce’s 4 carries for 5 yards and the Texans had 109 yards on the ground at 3.9 YPC with everyone not named Pierce.

Regardless of his ST value, I don’t know how they justify giving him a roster spot.
 
C’mon dude. This stupid line of thinking is why I rarely post here anymore. It’s incredibly sad, state of affairs for Pierce, but I’m sure we wish him all well in his next adventure.

Brooks could be our answer @ FB. Similar build to Vonta Leach (try not to put on 260, just stay explosive). Low center of gravity, unlike any other on this roster, he should NOT be released to the poachers. Now I don’t know how well he blocks in protection or leds in the hole, but he’s electric with ball in his hands so I’m sure, he could be a destroyer of LB’s.
 
Speedy said:
British Brooks had 2.5 times more yards in this game on 5 carries than Pierce has had in 2 games on 8 carries.

I know it’s different talent throughout the game and all, but take out Pierce’s 4 carries for 5 yards and the Texans had 109 yards on the ground at 3.9 YPC with everyone not named Pierce.

Regardless of his ST value, I don’t know how they justify giving him a roster spot.
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You need to get your head out of the preseason spreadsheets and actually watch the games.
 
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