chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Thanks alot Bill O'Brien now this effing song is stuck in my head. It's kind of hard to look all suave and debonair walking thru the downtown tunnels when you're humming this song.
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Is O'brien's Approach to Poor Performance Really In Any Contrast to Last Year?
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
Thanks alot Bill O'Brien now this effing song is stuck in my head. It's kind of hard to look all suave and debonair walking thru the downtown tunnels when you're humming this song.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Meh, I didn't really see enough out of the other guys to really make a definitive "OH yeah that's my guy" for either Keenum or Savage.
I think this game was really just an eye opener to what our offense is going to look like this year, which is not good.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
O'Brien's Penn St. team was 67th in the country in total offense last season.
I'm not sure I know what his "system" is (or why it should be successful this year).
I'm not sure I know what his "system" is (or why it should be successful this year).
b0ng
Bad Hombre
After all the stuff that happened with JoePa and Sandusky it was nothing short of miracle that they were as good as they were that year.
Tolar's Ghost
Waterboy
So why was he brought in to coach the Texans? To pick up the pieces of a disastrous season?
I guess I just don't get why he was "the guy." That extensive search for a new coach sure ended quickly...
Hope he does better - a lot better - than the other assistants-turned-head-coaches from the Belichick Tree (i.e. Weis, McDaniels, Mangini, Crennel, etc.)...
I guess I just don't get why he was "the guy." That extensive search for a new coach sure ended quickly...
Hope he does better - a lot better - than the other assistants-turned-head-coaches from the Belichick Tree (i.e. Weis, McDaniels, Mangini, Crennel, etc.)...
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So you want to fire OB and his staff after the first pre-season game?
Texian
Hall of Fame
Why? Paterno didn't leave the cupboard bare. 2009 recruiting class = #19, 2010 recruiting class = #12, 2011 recruiting class = #33. Only a handful of recruits left the program.
These are people that never wanted him in the first place and are using the preseason debacle as evidence of their own superior intellect.
You mean like that awkward moment when Kubiak truly realized what he had, or more accurately, didn't have, in David Carr?
Gasp!! Yet ANOTHER Kubiak parallel!!!
(If I could only make a meme for that)
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Man some of you are a little quick to jump the gun on O'brien after one lousy pre season game. I dont care if we lose all the pre season games 30+ to nothing as long as come week 1 the guys are ready to compete.
If by game 2 of the regular season we see the same theme as the Arizona game then yes we can all start a fire O'brien soap club, but lord let's give him a chance when the game actually matters.
If by game 2 of the regular season we see the same theme as the Arizona game then yes we can all start a fire O'brien soap club, but lord let's give him a chance when the game actually matters.
speedfreek
All Pro
Nope, we're stuck with him. You can't fire a guy after only one season
(as an owner) without getting a bad reputation.
I was officially in the "wait for wisenhunt to interview" camp. But I would
also have been ok with Lovie.
I think the Obrien hire was about the biggest "impulse buy" I've ever
seen.
Everyone was blowing smoke up his butt, but I didn't see anything in
his career that said he had the experience to take the reins of a team
that people considered "close"
I hope the guy proves me wrong, because I am a Texans fan. But
the more I see the more I feel the need for an antacid..
(as an owner) without getting a bad reputation.
I was officially in the "wait for wisenhunt to interview" camp. But I would
also have been ok with Lovie.
I think the Obrien hire was about the biggest "impulse buy" I've ever
seen.
Everyone was blowing smoke up his butt, but I didn't see anything in
his career that said he had the experience to take the reins of a team
that people considered "close"
I hope the guy proves me wrong, because I am a Texans fan. But
the more I see the more I feel the need for an antacid..
Admittedly OB was not my first choice, but I have absolutely no problem with O'Brien... except the hype seems to be a little over-exaggerated.
My issues are solely around the guy they picked to be our starting QB & the extent they are going to trying to make it work.
I thought it was a bad joke, but it looks like they are serious about Fitzwhateveryouwanttocallhim.
Over the next few days I'm going to try to convince myself that Fitz is equivalent to Romo.
Yeah, it's that bad.
I wasn't referring to you tk, I know you wouldn't make a decision on O'Brien after one preseason game. These others have already made up their minds about him.
The key to O'Brien being successful is going to be something that Kubiak sorely lacked........ The ability to adjust and change his thinking and scheme to find a way to win.
That's where I was. Didn't we go down the rookie head coach path and didn't like the results?
I suspect McNair was enthralled with the Belichick connection and that's why he pulled the trigger on O'Brien.
Both Wiz and Lovie had success with less than ideal QBs which is where we are so I thought they would give us the best chance to turn things around without it being a 3-4 year rebuild.
As you say, I'm a Texan fan so I hope O'Brien's weirdness translates into winning football.
That's where I was. Didn't we go down the rookie head coach path and didn't like the results?
I suspect McNair was enthralled with the Belichick connection and that's why he pulled the trigger on O'Brien.
Both Wiz and Lovie had success with less than ideal QBs which is where we are so I thought they would give us the best chance to turn things around without it being a 3-4 year rebuild.
As you say, I'm a Texan fan so I hope O'Brien's weirdness translates into winning football.
Well, when McNair allowed Rick Smith to come up for air, he said that one of the things they were looking for was a Coach who could make adjustments... I liked Lovie, but I think that took him out of contention. McNair was dealing with his cancer at that time, so he was probably thinking he don't have another 12 years.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Pretty much spot on. Re: your "Impulse Buy" comments, IMO I believe McNair already had his mind made up about hiring BOB when he went through his long list of prerequisites he wanted in his new coach. It was like he was describing Bill O'Brien to a tee at Kubiak firing conference. Most owners/gm describe a new coach search along the lines of, we will leave no stone unturned in our search to find the best HC for this team. Not McNair, he was very specific.
Why would anyone have a very tight and limited set of parameters for hiring a new head coach unless they already had their mind made up? They wouldn't. If they did it's Flawed Thinking.
I was on the Jimbo Fisher bandwagon. The National Championship game was one of the BEST jobs of coaching I have seen. A good coach, is a good coach, is a good coach. Jimbo Fisher is a Good Coach. Fisher is a winner. When you think of a winning coach you think Jimbo Fisher NOT Bill O'Brien.
I think you've got to be pretty vague about what you're looking for when you start your search. Then put your fillers out, see who's interested, then rank your candidates, then get to know them...
I think OB was high on their list for whatever reason & when they finally met him & realized the feeling was mutual, there was no reason to go any further.
They may very well have wanted Jimbo Fisher, they were probably describing Fisher at Kubiak's firing, but Jimbo probably had no intention of leaving Florida State.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I don't believe so, Fisher didn't meet several of the prerequisites and parameters set by McNair. Therefore why would McNair even contact Jimbo? He wouldn't.
My gut feeling (fwiw) has always been that McNair had his sights set on O'Brien. The Lovie interview was solely to satisfy the Rooney Rule.
For better or for worse, O'Brien will be the Texans head coach for the next several years, so we'd better settle in and get used to it. I certainly hope we do not see any pink soaps in 2014.
That said, O'Brien chose Fitzpatrick and immediately named him starter, so that decision is either going to show some mad genius if successful, or stain his early reputation with a decision that many of us thought was bad from the beginning. I hope that I am proven wrong, but I honestly doubt it. Fitzpatrick is what he is in the past decade. Putting sprinkles on it does not magically make it a brownie.
Texian
Hall of Fame
We agree on O'Brien, the process was a mere formality. McDaniels made it 9 games in to his 2nd season. Rod Chudzinski lasted 1 season. If last Saturday was foreshadowing what is to come, O'Brien could go the way of Chudzinski.
My initial problem with O'Brien is he knew from day 1 that QB was this teams highest priority. Yet BOB waited until almost all of the available FA QBs had been signed before signing Fitzpatrick. Then BOB waited until the end of the 4th rd before drafting a QB.
For me, the first red flag was some of the coaches BOB hired. The 2nd red flag was the decision to cut Daniels and Manning and replace them with lesser talent knowing that keeping Daniels and Manning would likely result in respectable comp picks in 2016. And then there was Saturday night, the worst game I have ever seen the Texans play.
speedfreek
All Pro
The thing that came to mind was how McNair hired Dom. According to
what I heard, Capers and Casserly came in with a thick book with a plan
and McNair bought in hook line and sinker.. How often do you hire
the first contractor that shows up at your door for anything?
But, none the less, we ended up with 4 years of mediocre.
Then McNair hires Reeves and his suggestion is Kubiak. lo and behold,
Kubes is our guy for 8 years! Granted, at least Gary had serious NFL
cred behind him at the time. I was actually optimistic about the hire..
(boy was I wrong).
Then we need a new guy after year 12. We interview one coach that
has had superbowl experience, pass, and won't even wait for the other
(because his team is in the playoffs..) who does that?
I agree, if you're locked in on a college coach -- Obrien wasn't the best
candidate in that case either! Heck, if my criteria was limited to only
college staffs then go after championship guys (Fisher) or guys who have
out of the box schemes.. Mahlzan, Sumlin, Briles, etc. Chip Kelly is showing
us that it can work (at least for the short sample window we have)
7-5 & 8-4 at Penn St. is not credentialed in my opinion.
cdollaz
Rookie
Fitzpatrick is likely here as a placeholder until next year's draft, when the QB talent available is a damn sight better than this year's draft. I would rather that be the case than having taken a lesser prospect this year just because we needed one. That is a desperation move that can set you back a few years. See Jacksonville and Tennessee.
The simple-minded continue with the "why didn't they go out and get a quality starting QB" nonsense. If it was as easy as just going and getting one, every team would have a good QB. There wasn't a worthy one in the draft, apparently, and any team with a mediocre or better QB isn't going to trade you theirs. Getting a great QB seems to be as much about luck and timing as anything else. See Indianapolis. A team can't just go and get one at their own whim. There aren't enough to go around.
I thought Fisher & O'Brien had about the same credentials.
I'm thinking when McNair put the feelers out, word came back that Fisher wasn't interested.
Texian
Hall of Fame
McNair said from the get go that the new coach would have NFL experience, Fisher did not.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Well...Those other guys just got moved down the depth chart...
Getting cut just became a very real possibility for Harris.....If he slides further than corner #4....
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Would NEVER have happened under Kubiak and please don't say it would have. Starters never lost their jobs for any reason under him unless you were ben Tate for some weird reason.
You never cut the player outright after one preseason game. He moves down the depth chart until he is cut. Unless half the members here become head coaches then god help us.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I personally thought Kubiak would have been a much better coach if he didn't final say on the 53 man roster as part of his contract. Also I believe Kubiak would have been a better coach if he had to answer to a real GM (not McNair) who had final say. Kubiak's player evals and transactions were mediocre at best. During the years the Texans were winning there is a good chance the talent level would have been better if a real GM had been in charge.
While I understand the point you're trying to make that quality QBs don't grow on trees, as it were.
However, I will counter with, yes you CAN go out and get a solid QB if you do your homework and find a guy that fits your philosophy. See Niners/Kaepernick or Seahawks/Wilson. Please note that neither was drafted in the first round. But their coaches knew that they could take the talents those guys brought to the table and make max use of those talents.
I will give you this... those guys were among the final pieces inserted into teams that were already solid pretty much everywhere else.
That begs the question, for me anyway, is that O'Brien's master plan? Is he trying to build a solid team while he scouts for just the right quy at QB??
You can put sprinkles on a turd, but it's still a turd. And probably brownie colored.
This years QB FA's are a dumpster fire. Vick was easily the most talented, but is everything that BO'B isn't looking for in a QB.
IMO, BO'B went with Fitz because he's smart enough to pick up the playbook quickly.
I'm with ya on the draft. I would've really liked Bortles but I think Smith not being able to trade out of #1 over all forced BO'Bs hand and he didn't think the top QB's were worth that spot with Clowney sitting there. I liked several QB's much more than Savage, but know, I'm pulling just as hard for him as I would the other guys.
I think McNair has a serious man-crush on the Patriots organization as a whole and Belichick in particular. BO'B wasn't my favorite pick, by far. Neither was Whisenhunt. I'll take BO'B over Whisenhunt, personally. I do tend to agree that Mr. McNair had him targeted all along.
My bad... I thought he was in Miami with Saban.
I like the way you used that word in a sentence better than speedfreak.
This is what I was waiting to see from BO'B. Making changes instead of letting the same ole same ole's "work their butts off and battle" like Kubiak would do.
On top of that, the player you just demoted might actually be the better talent and the demotion lights a fire under his azz. Good motivation there.
I do not get the placeholder mentality. Unless the Texans are in the top 8-10 picks, they will most likely not have a shot at the top QBs in next year's draft. Are they going to "play to lose" for a freakin' draft position this season? I do not think so, as that reeks of loser mentality.
And hoping for a QB to drop in the draft is not sound draft philosophy.
It is not simple-minded to want someone other than Fitzpatrick. He is scraping the bottom of the barrel and even admits that this is his last shot at a starting job. If he is cut today, no team would pick him up as a starter. Some might give him a kick on the tires as a potential backup, but that's as far as it gets.
I'm not going to roast O'Brien and form a hard judgement based on the Fitzpatrick connection. But, that said, it is still his decision and part of his early career as a pro head coach. If he is a placeholder for part of a season until Savage is ready to start, so be it. But placeholder until 2015 draft? That's just lame.
I truly believe Fitzpatrick named starter in spring is the primary reason for AJ's depressing holdout attempt.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Not sure if that's directed at me, but I despised Kubiak as a head coach.
I know it wouldn't have happened. And a whole list of other things weren't going to happen...
b0ng
Bad Hombre
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323455104579014553720253962
O'Brien did a hell of a job re-recruiting those kids to stay at the school. JoePa's (in)actions certainly put those recruiting classes that you are touting in serious jeopardy.
EDIT: Since we are airing it out, I wanted Lovie to be the next coach of the Texans but I think O'Brien is a perfectly fine hire and am willing to give him a season or two to sort out whats going on. I have no qualms in saying the offense is probably going to be bad this year.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
cdollaz
Rookie
If you think you can get at a franchise QB in the draft, you trade up. And that is much easier to do in a draft like next year's which may likely have a few worthy of a higher first round pick, as you don't have to trade up as high as the options are not as few. In years when a QB doesn't go #1 overall, there is a reason for it. It is because none of them are considered to be long-term franchise QBs.
Waiting another year isn't lame, it is much better than reaching for one in the current draft just because you happen to need one. Once you draft one, he is going to be given at least 3 years to sink or swim. I don't want the Texans to be set back 3-4 years by overdrafting someone like Bortles, Manziel, etc. Much better to increase the talent at other positions and wait to get a better QB prospect in a later year.
I am tired of hearing "we should have gotten a QB other than Fitzpatrick" from people, since none of them can come up with anything that is definitively better. Given that there wasn't anyone worth drafting this year, no viable free agents that are obviously better than Fitzpatrick, and the fact that no one will trade anyone who is a remotely good quarterback, our options were limited. It was unfortunate that this happened to be the year we had the #1 pick. Do you really think that if Andrew Luck or someone remotely close to him was available for this year's draft we would have passed on them and settled for Fitzpatrick or some other free agent?
cdollaz
Rookie
Agreed, but those are the exceptions, not the rule, and given the Texans' draft history and their (in)ability to assess talent, I have no confidence in them finding "diamond-in-the-rough" players like that. Much better for them to stick with sure-things and obvious choices until they hire people who have a clue when it comes to drafting.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
speedfreek
All Pro
I won't miss him, but I'll be really curious to watch his team
play.
I want to see if they have the same kind of offensive
issues we had (start fast, finish lame, etc..)
I want to see if he really is "predictable" or if we really did
have such a talent deficit that his system was no longer feasible.
It's going to be a kick in the sack if they win their division and
we're in competition for the first overall pick in the draft..
play.
I want to see if they have the same kind of offensive
issues we had (start fast, finish lame, etc..)
I want to see if he really is "predictable" or if we really did
have such a talent deficit that his system was no longer feasible.
It's going to be a kick in the sack if they win their division and
we're in competition for the first overall pick in the draft..
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
To all the Fitzpatrick supporters:
Bortles,Manziel and Bridgewater ALL looked better than Fitzpatrick in their games.
Just sayin'
Bortles,Manziel and Bridgewater ALL looked better than Fitzpatrick in their games.
Just sayin'
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
One bad year and kicked to the curb. Damn shame.
So did pretty much every QB that took the field last weekend.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
Haha @ Fitz supporters. You really think anyone here is excited about Fitz? Texans did the right thing. Build from the trenches. Clowney is something the NFL hasn't seen recently. XSF will start and CJ will prove he can do it all. If Nix lives up to his name? Color me impressed. Get the big nasties first then you can spend a higher pick on a QB.
drs23
Veteran
drs23
Veteran
Quit that kind of heresy! Can't you see O'Brien is being stoned by the masses here? Pick up a rock or shut up, lest you be next...
Almost.
Bridgewater 6 of 13 for 49 yards. No TDs, No Ints, 1 fumble (even with the gloves)
Fitzpatrick 6 of 14 for 55 yards No TDs, 2 Ints, no fumbles (he also had 1 carry for 23 yards).
Is that a fact....??
You can't prove it by us...
- signed
Andre Brown, Tim Cornett, and Dennis Johnson
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Almost.
Bridgewater 6 of 13 for 49 yards. No TDs, No Ints, 1 fumble (even with the gloves)
Fitzpatrick 6 of 14 for 55 yards No TDs, 2 Ints, no fumbles (he also had 1 carry for 23 yards).
Hmm .. one is a rookie and one is a 10 year vet. Oh yeah, of course, duhhh Fitz has to learn a new system ... poor guy.
Bob F'd this team by not addressing the QB position. Until that slot is filled by a capable player this team will continue to suck, and players like AJ will continue to ask for their release. (Watt .. hint hint)