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Is Mario Williams NFL ready?
- Thread starter gtexan02
- Start date
Vinny
shiny happy fan
all physical games have a certain amount of instinct. I wouldn't consider Steve Francis very instinctive at the point guard...but no doubt he is an incredible athlete....but he can't make plays like less athletic point guards like Steve Nash. Some guys have it, and some guys don't....and no amount of coaching will get you there if you don't get it.
It's more than that. I've seen him come from behind a running play and he just looped around the backfield instead of aggressively cutting to the runner to make the stop. He was trotting in his loop, rather than exploding toward the ball. He should know to go after the guy with the ball.
Lance on 610 this morning was saying that Mario just doesn't seem to have great football skills...I think he was saying he does all the combine stuff like Superman but when it comes to the play on the field then he seems to be lacking and not have that natural ability so many seem to have.
Before this game I was sort of ambivalent; you know it's just been a few games, he's a rookie, he's got a lot to learn, new coaches, coming from college to the pros isn't easy.
After reading this thread and some others elsewhere and hearing the radio guys I'm seriously rethinking my opinion and it's worrisome as a fan.
They really couldn't afford to blow this pick.
Before this game I was sort of ambivalent; you know it's just been a few games, he's a rookie, he's got a lot to learn, new coaches, coming from college to the pros isn't easy.
After reading this thread and some others elsewhere and hearing the radio guys I'm seriously rethinking my opinion and it's worrisome as a fan.
They really couldn't afford to blow this pick.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
This is what I keep seeing. The DL goes for the blitz, LB's go into pursuit and the DBs play zone and give up yardage when they get thrown on.
We may as well start trying safety blitzes. They'll give up the pass anyway.
Having said that, I'm not a big X's and O's guy and watch the games from home. There's a lot that I don't see.
phantom17
Rookie
! Good point!
Nawzer
Alienz
Mario Williams clearly does not look like someone deserving of the no.1 pick. That doesn't mean he won't become a great player but at this point he's not there. We're just going to have to sit back and watch how it works out. And don't tell me how much Reggie Bush or Vince Young could've made things different. Unless those 2 guys can play defense we probably would have the same results as we do now. Also blaming Mario for the defense stinking it up is not fair. There are other guys on that line who haven't done squat!!!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I watched a good portion of the Den/NE game last night & the LB's were picking up their RB pass responsibilities as they came out of the backfield. The secondary did the same, they didn't let their reciever just run free. All this came together forcing brady to hold a split second longer, The Texans LBs & secondary aren't doing that, they're chasing theirs out & around. With the exception of Demeco & Dunta, these other LBs & DBs just aren't that good in zone pass coverage.
I did notice however that the DC blitzed more often than ours, but for the most part their D-line wasn't pressuring brady all that much by themselves either.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
Mario is raw and I agree that his instincts and technique both need work. He is "NFL ready" in the sense that he's functional but then again this is only a surprise to you if you forget that he came out as a junior from NcSt ... hardly a football mecca or a notable schedule. We drafted him for his physical gifts and for his upside, not because he had 14.5 sacks against a bunch of nobodies. Whether or not it was the right draft decision, it's the one we made and there were a lot of good reasons for it.
Nobody is content to just write off poor play and his salary as a learning curve and accept it, but you have to recognize what he came into the league as; a freak athlete who admittedly from the jump was going to need a lot of coaching and technique work. If he improves his technique he stands to be the monster we all hope he will be.
OTOH throwing a blitz now and then might help free him or his teammates up for a sack or two. Defensively we are in the bottom half of the league talent-wise, and there have been many instances where I have watched tape and seen someone clearly overpursue, botch a tackle, or make some other variety of personal error, but scheme is a big, big part of defensive success, or lack of it, and right now we're flat out not putting our guys in a position to make plays.
Nobody is content to just write off poor play and his salary as a learning curve and accept it, but you have to recognize what he came into the league as; a freak athlete who admittedly from the jump was going to need a lot of coaching and technique work. If he improves his technique he stands to be the monster we all hope he will be.
OTOH throwing a blitz now and then might help free him or his teammates up for a sack or two. Defensively we are in the bottom half of the league talent-wise, and there have been many instances where I have watched tape and seen someone clearly overpursue, botch a tackle, or make some other variety of personal error, but scheme is a big, big part of defensive success, or lack of it, and right now we're flat out not putting our guys in a position to make plays.
sleepwalker
Waterboy
I watched the game again last night...I specifically watched mario and the defense...He was single handedly owned on 2 touchdowns...It's going to take some time people, deal with it.
I agree this guy is very green, but he has great strength and speed...I don't know if you saw this play, but he did run down santana moss from the opposite side of the field !!!
Saunders did a good job preparing his guys and making Mario look like a rookie ...In fact, Saunders called an excellent game against us and made Rick Smith look like a jack*****, especially the prevent defense that gave up the touchdown up the gut to Portis just before halftime.
Rediculous calls like that are part of the problem and the players know it.
I agree this guy is very green, but he has great strength and speed...I don't know if you saw this play, but he did run down santana moss from the opposite side of the field !!!
Saunders did a good job preparing his guys and making Mario look like a rookie ...In fact, Saunders called an excellent game against us and made Rick Smith look like a jack*****, especially the prevent defense that gave up the touchdown up the gut to Portis just before halftime.
Rediculous calls like that are part of the problem and the players know it.
DirtyPrince
Practice Squad
Hell to the No.
Sometimes opinions reflect reality...and in this case, nothing can be provided as evidence that these opinions are not based in reality.
While a rookie, green, inexperienced, whatever, the simple fact of the matter is that Mario has yet to give us even ONE "wow" play in three games. Heck, he hasn't even given us an "oh" play (meaning "oh, I see why they chose him with the first overall pick").
Wolf
100% Texan
I hope that isn't the case for a 32nd ranked defense in 2005 that couldn't stop anyone and we draft DL #1 overall and he has to sit because he needs to learn the game.
I hope that isn't the case. If that was the case, we should have just traded down some spots and took whatever draft picks that they would have given us
Yes..... I see very little concern for the run game from our front 4 against Washington. It looked like the four DLinemen were individually going for the QB on every play... except maybe Seth... he had a better game than I expected.
But they are rushing upfield(or trying to) leaving big holes for the run game.
No...... maybe different expectations.... Like Xtruroyalty said.... when I rewatched the DVD-R....... He looks like a mOnster.... physically. His Power, his speed.....
His instincts are like you say..... poor. I don't beleive you can teach those, but you can teach him on certain plays, it's not a good idea to run the tackle/TE around the QB. Instead, in some situations........ it's better to close off the end.
I understand he is raw...... but I see more problems with what RichardSmith is asking him to do, not only does it look like his instincts are poor, but his focue is off........... when we expect a run...... go get the RB. When we expect a pass, go get the QB..... try to teach him to recognize the reverse..... etc... etc...... I wonder what exactly are they talking about through the week.... Looks like they are working on his Bench, and shuttle time.
blockhead83
Rookie
After thinking about the situation with Mario for a while two things come to mind.
1. It isn't the plays where Mario gets close to the quarterback but is too late that disappoint me, it's ALL of the other plays where he's a non-factor. He simply hasn't impacted the way the opposing team goes about their business. There's a handful of plays where he used his abilities to get close to the QB or the RB, but there's 20 plays for each of those where he just gets stood up or takes himself out of the play. It's unacceptable at this point, and I'm not sure it's going to get better this year.
2. Is it me or has nobody looked good on our defense this year? We do have talent on the defensive side of the ball.... Dunta isn't a pro-bowler but he's quite talented, as is Anthony Weaver. Even the people we know to be talented players have looked like street free agents to this point. That allows me to hold out some hope for Mario that maybe, just maybe if we can fix the things that are going on fundamentally and game-planning wise with this defense, he could show us that he's better than we think he is at this point.
1. It isn't the plays where Mario gets close to the quarterback but is too late that disappoint me, it's ALL of the other plays where he's a non-factor. He simply hasn't impacted the way the opposing team goes about their business. There's a handful of plays where he used his abilities to get close to the QB or the RB, but there's 20 plays for each of those where he just gets stood up or takes himself out of the play. It's unacceptable at this point, and I'm not sure it's going to get better this year.
2. Is it me or has nobody looked good on our defense this year? We do have talent on the defensive side of the ball.... Dunta isn't a pro-bowler but he's quite talented, as is Anthony Weaver. Even the people we know to be talented players have looked like street free agents to this point. That allows me to hold out some hope for Mario that maybe, just maybe if we can fix the things that are going on fundamentally and game-planning wise with this defense, he could show us that he's better than we think he is at this point.
all i read in this message board this offseason was how mario is 6'7 300 pounds with a 42 inch vertical leap and runs a 4.6. who cares this guy makes no plays and shouldnt even be on the field the only reason he starts is because he was the number one pick. if he was drafted in the 5th round you would hardly see this guy on the field.hey lets stop the hate on the local kid vy. hes not shown any reason to think he will be bust unlike mario. wheres all the walli lundy fans during the preseason they were all over the board bragging about how we dont need bush we got lundy and in this sytem any back can put up 1500 yards.right now our offense stinks the defense is even worse and the future doesnt look much better. we are now 2-17 our last 19 games freaking pathetic.maybe this organization should focus on bringing in good football talent instead of trying to prove how much smarter they are compared to other organizations. theres not one team in the league who would have taken mario number one and i dont think there is another team that would have stuck with carr this long
Yeah, the "Mario Onslaught" was a bit of hyperbole... & yes, Kubiak said he didn't play well..... he also said David didn't play well.
There were somethings David did well...... getting AJ involved early in the game.... hitting 6(??) recievers....... managing the no huddle, hurry up offense.
But there were some things he didn't do well, that makes his overall game poor.
Same with Mario..... he got up the field, he made a play of two.... he showed good hustle.....
But he was indecisive...... didn't contain the reverse (didn't stay at home).... didn't shed blocks........ failed to identify the run..... etc.
I think Mario has shown that he belongs in this league..... he was a half a second away from his first sack on several occasions, and was actually robbed of a sack by an offensive hold....
I'd love for him to have a rookie season like JuliusPeppers, JevonKearse & Darren Howard.... he still has 13 games to do so.
We will see.
Umm.... I thought we could take 6th round talent to the probowl with the right scheme....... 2000 rushing yards and all.
If our guys could cover their recievers for 2 seconds, we'd get sacks.
Did you guys not notice the recievers coming out of the backfield were open??
When David does those dinks & dunks, we criticize him and blame him for our inept offense....... at least I do.
but both Philly & Washington hung 500 yards on our back 7 with dinks & dunks... are they that much talented than us at runningback....... tightend....... & fullback??
They are more talented, with Clinton Portis, and Brian Westbrook, but while they are running in 34 yard screens & shouvle passes, our guys are getting dropped at the spot they caught the ball... why?? Because their Linebackers & Safeties are actually helping their defensive lines.
Bull......
The play where Mario was held, was a wow play. the Play where he tossed Runyan to chase McNabb out of the pocket(McNabbs only rush for a first in the philly game) was a wow play. there are actually several Wow plays.... unfortunately, they haven't paid off.....
Open your eyes, as soon as we stop giving up 30+ yards on screens(the responsibility of the people who are supposed to cover the recievers who regularly catch screens) & 50+ yards on underneath routes...... routes that don't take but 2 seconds to develop...... then you'll see Mario, TJ, Babin & Peek get multiple sacks per game.
I honestly can't see how people can go back and watch the game.... tivo'd or what ever & not see why we picked him #1. There is no question. He's definitely worth the pick, and he's going to be something all Texans can be proud of........
1. How many sacks did Darren Howard get against us?? None. How many batted balls?? None..... he was basically a non factor the whole game. Jevon Kearse only got one sack..... no batted balls, no forced fumbles..... one tackle... he was a non factor for the other 30 some odd snaps?? He & Howard both were on the sideline for three of the 5 sacks.
2. You can not be watching our games, if you think Weaver is amoung the more talented players on our Jason Babin, I think is our best DE....... he's got the power & the speed to get to the QB. TJ is playing very well, Sanders is playing very well...... Earl is playing well........ Demeco is making an impact...
Dunta & Weaver are closer to the bottom of the list so far.
Sanders is playing well? Now I can't read the rest of the post.
Stop watching ESPN.... tape the games.... a VCR will work, and rewatch the game. Slow mo it...... time the QBs release. Mario is playing like a #1 pick. I'd love to hear what the OLines of the Eagles, the Colts, & the Redskins have to say about him. Most likely they'll say once Mario gets his head in the game, he'll be hell on legs......
Vy....... I love Vince. I wish we would have drafted him. But I don't think Mario was a bust, & I don't think it was a mistake to Draft Mario.
& Lundy would do well....... anyone can run for 1500 yards in this system..... but we aren't running the ZBS, and haven't since the Denver preseason game.
Sanders is playing well. Not very well, but well. He's our best Corner through three games. in passing defense...... against the run, it's Dunta hands down....
give me a break... i dont care if your watching espn fox cbs on a vcr or tivo. it is so easy to see that mario doesnt make plays consistently gets handled at the line of scrimmage and really doesnt play with enough intensity to be consistent. if you think this guy is playing like a number one pick i think your about the only one have another sip because you got more than kool aid in that cup. but i understand no matter how he performs your gonna see what you want to see
It already seems like Mario moves in slow motion.
I've mentioned where Mario has been disappointing. But we didn't draft him as the most NFL ready DE. We drafted a Junior who is bigger, stronger, and faster than most any other DE drafted in the last 10 years.
thats great but is he better? i dont really care what a guy does in a combine workout. his own coach at nc. state said mario was inconsistent and often took plays off. this guy had one season in college and put up some big sack totals in a handfull of games against weak competition. look at the guys he played with on his own defense. the wolfpack was loaded on defense and they still didnt do much
Did you mention he was a junior??
blockhead83
Rookie
1. You spit out alot of nice stats there, but I'm going to address your comment on 2 right here, I did watch the games and Howard may not have batted any balls but he and Kearse were disrupting the Texans offense even on downs where they didn't earn a point in a stat column. You seem to have missed that point, which was the main point there. Mario doesn't have any sacks, and he hasn't made much of an impact on the stat columns period, but I could live with that if he was doing ANYTHING on those plays where he wasn't earning a tackle, or a sack, or a batted ball, or whatever. Mario isn't being disruptive. He's not man handling his blockers, he's not demanding double teams more frequently than our other DLineman, he's not making plays behind the line of scrimmage, he's not running down players downfield, he's not blowing up screens/reverses/sweeps, to be blunt he's not doing much at all that his spectacular physical attributes would suggest he's capable of.
2. If I'm not watching games, you're not thinking when you're reading my comments. I said I thought our entire D looked horrible, ya got that? I agree, Dunta and Weaver look bad so far, go back and read my post again. The fact of the matter is we know Dunta has game, he got robbed of a D. Rookie of the Year, and he's been a bright spot on this team in the past. We also know Weaver can play, he played a large role in what was one of the most dominant D's in NFL history on the Ravens when they won a super bowl. He's a talented young guy that can play. But guess what, you're right, they, as well as everyone else, have looked real bad so far. If guys that we know to be talented, or IMO are talented, can look this bad, maybe there's hope for Mario. I was just pointing out that Mario is an X factor at this point, he has no proven track record to go from. If known commodities look bad, maybe Mario is just falling victim to the same problem and could come around under better circumstances.
It was Mario that chased Donovan out of the pocket when he ran for a frist down. I think it was Mario that hurried McNabb on the deep pass to Stallworth that he didn't catch. it was Mario who was doubled that allowed GlenEarl to tag McNabb as he threw the ball that LJ made a miraculous(sp) catch. Mario one handedly tackled Brian Westbrook.
It was Mario chasing Peyton for a first down. IT was Mario who chased Addai down for a tackle. Mario hurried several incomplete passes from Manning.
Sunday.... I didn't take notes on Sunday's game, but Mario did not get handled by a TE, or a FB. if you beleive so, please tell me when on the game clock so I can find it, because I did not see it.
If our back 7 would do their jobs, then the pressure that our DLine is getting on the QB would be obvious. But it is soooooo bad, check out the play by play on NFL.com..... short pass...... shortpass........ shortpass.... that are being turned into 30+ & 70+ yard touchdowns.....
I'm just saying Dunta & Weaver are two of the worst of our starters.... you singled them out as..............
Ok, I read it wrong...... I thought you were saying they were two of our better players......
my bad.
well..... yeah. if you'd have said it like that, then I wouldn't have even said anything in this thread..... good point...
great post......
just ignore me.
blockhead83
Rookie
Well, the difference between Mario doing these things and Howard doing these things is that opposing teams are moving the ball in spite of him. Mario'd look much better if those hurried throws he was causing weren't going for 1st downs and touchdowns, and that's not his fault. If he caused a hurried throw for a pick, his QB hurry would look alot better. So yea, good points.
LORK 88
Wreck'em Ŧech!
No way im labeling anyone a bust til I give them 3 years. He's the 3rd youngest player in the NFL and needs time to further develop. Case in point, Alex Smith, the 1st overall pick in the 2005 who turned 21 after the draft ended up throwing 11 picks and 1 TD (against all of all teams), but now has the 10th best QB rating in the NFL right now. I know we want production now, but we gotta all be patient.
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
He's getting lit up by tight ends. Not good. I think he will play like a number one pick. Be patient. Got a kid who's done it all his career with raw physical ablity. He has so much naked phisical ablity he could steam roll people in college. That doesn't work any more in the NFL. Give him time. He'll get it. My bigest criticism is his lack of his use of hands. He stays locked up to long on the blocker and gets no seperation. He's laying on the blocker instaed of giving him a shot and getting seperation. Fundimental defensive football. In the NFL you've got to have a little technique. Everyone wants to pin the work out/combine warrior to his tale , you're going to look foolish a couple of seasons from now.
Texans86
Rookie
I believe there's only one thing that can't be taught, and that is your physcial stature. You can't teach 6-1, 291 lbs. Also, his raw strength gives him a big step against his competition. Spin moves, swim moves, positions on the line can all be taught and mastered with repetition, but his physical attributes alone are enough to give him a huge advantage. I think Karmelowitz probably has Mario practicing all those moves daily just to get him used to the movement. Things will eventually slow down for Mario, and that's when offenses will have to focus on him.