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Is keeping Casserly a mistake?

Is keeping Casserly a mistake?

  • Total voters
    149
Nighthawk

Nighthawk

Rookie
Here's the question, and I admit that for my money it's a last ditch effort to display public opinion in a way that might remotely impact McNair's decision: Is it a mistake to keep Casserly? I think it is. I think this team has ONLY showed strength (insofar as it has showed strength) since Reeves was hired. I think Reeves for GM and work from there. Get real football people in this club and turn it into something.

So I give you the poll: Is keeping Casserly a mistake?
 
I think keepin Casserly would be a mistake. He IMO has not been able to make solid decisions in the draft or free agency. Overpayed a number of players. He got rid of veteran player off the defense. He still has not been able to place a decent offensive line in front of Carr. Which i would probaly only extend him for 2 years.
 
JJ has said on many occasions that the talent level on this team is not were it needs to be. While you can blame some of that on the coaches, getting talent to Houston is the GM's job.

Fire his butt now!
 
Wharton said:
JJ has said on many occasions that the talent level on this team is not were it needs to be. While you can blame some of that on the coaches, getting talent to Houston is the GM's job.

Fire his butt now!
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coaches tend to blame GM's and GM's tend to blame coaches.

Just sayin.

Personally I'd keep him if I were McNair but I'd seriously reign in that urge Casserly seems to have to take wild chances with my money and my team. The PBuc trade and the story about how little info they had on him is a perfect example. I believe the first version, not CC's "Oh we looked real closely at him and watched more than four tapes" follow up amd I think it's ok to bring Casserly back as long as the leash gets held a lot tighter on him.

If he doesn't like that then fine, he can go work somewhere else.
 
In an odd way, I would say no. There's too many questions / thoughts I have at this point to have no doubt that he should be gone...

- Some bad pick trades, yes - but was that at result of coaches "want"?
- Some good picks that have panned out. Hind sight 20/20, probably could've done better - but I would think an average GM overall?
- Entirely clean house, will we ever know what was truly the issue?
- Posts have been made that the talent is better than (now) 2-14... so isn't that a positive for the GM?
- Reeves brought in as a consultant - apparently he gave his viewpoint to McNair, and he may just stick around as a consultant... as McNair's right hand... to verify Casserly makes the correct GM calls.
- What other GM to take his place? Easy to launch... can you name a better replacement?

If anything, Casserly may need to review his scouting department....

Edit - I do think he's on the clock though to make the "perfect offseason" and better selections of coach and players.
 
OK. How many who voted yes were excited about McNair hiring Dan Reeves?

GMs usually get two head coaches. Casserly is apparently going to get his chance to prove that he wasn't the problem - or that he was. It's hard to figure out for sure who was to blame if they both (Capers and Casserly) get fired at the same time.
 
A4toZ said:
In an odd way, I would say no. There's too many questions / thoughts I have at this point to have no doubt that he should be gone...

- Some bad pick trades, yes - but was that at result of coaches "want"?
- Some good picks that have panned out. Hind sight 20/20, probably could've done better - but I would think an average GM overall?
- Entirely clean house, will we ever know what was truly the issue?
- Posts have been made that the talent is better than (now) 2-14... so isn't that a positive for the GM?
- Reeves brought in as a consultant - apparently he gave his viewpoint to McNair, and he may just stick around as a consultant... as McNair's right hand... to verify Casserly makes the correct GM calls.
- What other GM to take his place? Easy to launch... can you name a better replacement?
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All excellent points. Every one of them.
 
Wharton said:
I don't have a problem with Reeves being GM, but I think Dan wants to coach again.
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I have heard the exact opposite. I think he is our GM, just not officially yet. :)
 
A4toZ said:
In an odd way, I would say no. There's too many questions / thoughts I have at this point to have no doubt that he should be gone...

- Some bad pick trades, yes - but was that at result of coaches "want"?
- Some good picks that have panned out. Hind sight 20/20, probably could've done better - but I would think an average GM overall?
- Entirely clean house, will we ever know what was truly the issue?
- Posts have been made that the talent is better than (now) 2-14... so isn't that a positive for the GM?
- Reeves brought in as a consultant - apparently he gave his viewpoint to McNair, and he may just stick around as a consultant... as McNair's right hand... to verify Casserly makes the correct GM calls.
- What other GM to take his place? Easy to launch... can you name a better replacement?

If anything, Casserly may need to review his scouting department....

Edit - I do think he's on the clock though to make the "perfect offseason" and better selections of coach and players.
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My sense is that these are either (a) questions to which there are answers available, just not necessarily to us, or (b) remarks that have no meaning (such as, will we truly ever know? who cares? let's move along).

As I said, I think Reeves might be a good GM and I think there are several others available.

It sounds as if McNair has already made up his mind to keep Casserly, which seems to me a fundamental mistake. Casserly has run the farm for the last 4 years, and what you saw today, what you saw all year, is the best he can do.

He should go.
 
So you are trusting Charlie Casserly?The same guy that gave up multiple high picks for Jason Babin? The same guy that gave up multiple high picks for Buchanan?The same guy that took Jabar Gafney with the #1 pick of the 2nd round. The same guy who took 3 dbs in rounds 2-3 one year and NONE of them are on the team anymore. The same guy who took backup QBs and RBS in the 2nd and 3rd round yet skipped the O-line. The same guy that passed on Derrick Johnson and took Travis Johnson when they traded down?He is horrible and has ruined this team.
 
htsone said:
Without a doubt... Remember, he's the moron responsible for the Boselli fiasco.

hts
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And do not forget Buchanon. Everyone on the west coast new he sucked but not Casserly.

  • 1)Fire:homer: :homer:
 
Nighthawk said:
Here's the question, and I admit that for my money it's a last ditch effort to display public opinion in a way that might remotely impact McNair's decision: Is it a mistake to keep Casserly? I think it is. I think this team has ONLY showed strength (insofar as it has showed strength) since Reeves was hired. I think Reeves for GM and work from there. Get real football people in this club and turn it into something.

So I give you the poll: Is keeping Casserly a mistake?
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y'all are operating on premise John McClain knows anything, just weeks ago he had Reeves being GM/HC now says Capers goes and Casserly stays and y'all buy into it. I think McClain should stick to something he's qualified for...and just as soon as we figure it out we will let you know
 
HoustonFrog said:
So you are trusting Charlie Casserly?The same guy that gave up multiple high picks for Jason Babin? The same guy that gave up multiple high picks for Buchanan?The same guy that took Jabar Gafney with the #1 pick of the 2nd round. The same guy who took 3 dbs in rounds 2-3 one year and NONE of them are on the team anymore. The same guy who took backup QBs and RBS in the 2nd and 3rd round yet skipped the O-line. The same guy that passed on Derrick Johnson and took Travis Johnson when they traded down?He is horrible and has ruined this team.
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Strong argument. Send it to McNair before tomorrow.
 
I watched Bob Allen interview Casserly on the Houston Texans show @ 10:30 and he mentioned that Cass had already been told by McNair that he would be here next year. Casserly said yes.
 
If you say our talent in the middle rounds is good on a team that just finished 2-11, I'd have to say you need to look again. Most commentators that do our games agree that we just don't have good talent. This has been a agrument going well back to the Boselli days so I don't really need to rehash it again, but trust me this collapse isn't all on Capers.
 
A4toZ said:
- Some bad pick trades, yes - but was that at result of coaches "want"?
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That right there is the very reason Casserly must go. Casserly blamed the Bennie Joppru pick on Capers the same way he blamed the Heath Shuler pick on Norv Turner.

Here's a newsflash to Casserly: You are Capers' boss! Capers is NOT YOUR BOSS! Your job is to pick players. Why in the hell is the coach doing YOUR job for you?

I cannot stand irresponsible people. It is absolutely inexcusable in a General Manager. I don't care what the coach wanted, the ultimate decision was Casserly's. If your GM can't take responsibility for his own decisions, he must go. I can't believe that anyone would consider bringing this irresponsible bum back. He has an excuse for everything. I have no respect for him. He is a loser who passes the buck.
 
Looking back at CCs track record at Washington (i looked at drafts from 1995 to 1999).. he was NOT very impressive there at the end... not at all.

He has done alot better here than he was doing over there.

But looking at those drafts.. ya know who I would really like as my general manager? Rich McKay.. the general manager of the falcons. During that timespan I checked..he was general manager of the Tampa Bay Bucs.. and man.. he was building a championship team from 1995 till 2003. He had some great picks in the first 3 rounds. Looks like hes doing a good job with the Falcons as well. Interesting how similar the Bucs and Falcons are.. from the perspective of the type of players the draft, and the type of offense and defense they run.
 
I can't wait to hear McNair's rationale for keeping Casserly. Continuity? Yeahright. Outstanding record assembling talent? Not. Ability to cleverly but despicably shift blame onto others in order to save his job for one more year? Now you're on the right track.

Then there's that issue of CC only having one year left on his contract. That brings up other questions if he's not (god forbid) extended.
 
Grid said:
Looking back at CCs track record at Washington (i looked at drafts from 1995 to 1999).. he was NOT very impressive there at the end... not at all.

He has done alot better here than he was doing over there.

But looking at those drafts.. ya know who I would really like as my general manager? Rich McKay.. the general manager of the falcons. During that timespan I checked..he was general manager of the Tampa Bay Bucs.. and man.. he was building a championship team from 1995 till 2003. He had some great picks in the first 3 rounds. Looks like hes doing a good job with the Falcons as well. Interesting how similar the Bucs and Falcons are.. from the perspective of the type of players the draft, and the type of offense and defense they run.
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Casserly was horrible in Washington. His one good year was when he was helped by Bethard and Gibbs. When on his own he drove the team into the ground!!
 
It sounds like the club has agreed on Bush, so the number one overall pick is a no-brainer. The key will be picks 2-7. Here's an interesting question: if the club gets Bush and keeps Davis will they trade Morency and/or Wells for additional picks?
 
Wells is an unrestricted free agent if he's not given a new contract before March 2 (don't count on that happening).

Morency has better trade value than DD. He's much cheaper and not coming off surgery.
 
barzilla said:
It sounds like the club has agreed on Bush, so the number one overall pick is a no-brainer. The key will be picks 2-7. Here's an interesting question: if the club gets Bush and keeps Davis will they trade Morency and/or Wells for additional picks?
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IF we take (and keep) Bush we may keep Davis, Wells, and Morency too. I think Hollings is obviously the odd man out. I don't think they have good trade value - it seems few running backs do.

Morency is cheap. Wells is far better respected and more highly rated by his teammates than he is on this board. I would not be surprised in the least if they are here next year.
 
aj. said:
I can't wait to hear McNair's rationale for keeping Casserly. Continuity? Yeahright. Outstanding record assembling talent? Not. Ability to cleverly but despicably shift blame onto others in order to save his job for one more year? Now you're on the right track.

Then there's that issue of CC only having one year left on his contract. That brings up other questions if he's not (god forbid) extended.
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Actually aj, I think it's a lot simpler than that. All the 'good' GMs are already happily employed by other teams. You can listen to all the fans blather on about Jimmy Johnson, Wolf, Reeves, and so on, but they're not interested.

Casserly is the GM because McNair can't find anyone better.
 
Runner said:
IF we take (and keep) Bush we may keep Davis, Wells, and Morency too. I think Hollings is obviously the odd man out. I don't think they have good trade value - it seems few running backs do.

Morency is cheap. Wells is far better respected and more highly rated by his teammates than he is on this board. I would not be surprised in the least if they are here next year.
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I agree. And Wells is increasing his value each year. He contributes as needed as a running back (and heck, the Texans proved that they can get injured down to the #3 running back during the course of a seaon) and he's provided even more value on special teams. He's been a very good value for a 5th round pick. So if the Texans can keep him, I think they will.
 
Everyone makes fun of Casserly and his draft picks, but if you have ever listened to him around the draft. The players and the deals that he has made is because Capers has really wanted those players. Capers wanted Babin!! Capers is the one who wanted Phillip Buchanon (yes I know this was a trade).

Capers wanted help on the D-Line and the guy he wanted they got. He wanted Travis Johnson, who was rated the top d lineman in last years draft. Not only did Casserly get T. Johnson he also picked up the 2nd overall pick in the 3rd for moving down 5 spots from last years draft.

What about the players Casserly have been successful with. Everyone wanted Cass to trade up a couple of years ago to get DeAngelo Hall, but Cass and Capers wanted D. Robinson more, I think that turned out well.

What about Dom. Davis (3rd Rd)? Jerome Mathis(4th rd) (our lone pro bowl player) CC Brown (6th Rd) ( I think CC is going to be a darn good SS for years to come), Demarcus Faggins (6th Rd)?? These players have already helped this team and will continue to help these team.

Casserly wasn't the problem. Capers was and thats why he lost his job. I'm happy they kept Casserly.
 
texanfan2002114 said:
Everyone makes fun of Casserly and his draft picks, but if you have ever listened to him around the draft. The players and the deals that he has made is because Capers has really wanted those players. Capers wanted Babin!! Capers is the one who wanted Phillip Buchanon (yes I know this was a trade).

Capers wanted help on the D-Line and the guy he wanted they got. He wanted Travis Johnson, who was rated the top d lineman in last years draft. Not only did Casserly get T. Johnson he also picked up the 2nd overall pick in the 3rd for moving down 5 spots from last years draft.

What about the players Casserly have been successful with. Everyone wanted Cass to trade up a couple of years ago to get DeAngelo Hall, but Cass and Capers wanted D. Robinson more, I think that turned out well.

What about Dom. Davis (3rd Rd)? Jerome Mathis(4th rd) (our lone pro bowl player) CC Brown (6th Rd) ( I think CC is going to be a darn good SS for years to come), Demarcus Faggins (6th Rd)?? These players have already helped this team and will continue to help these team.

Casserly wasn't the problem. Capers was and thats why he lost his job. I'm happy they kept Casserly.
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He is still the one that pulls the trigger and is therefore responsible. It iosn't his job to bow down to Capers. It is his job to study and make sure what he is hearing is right. He did no homework on Buchanan and the owner later did.
 
texanfan2002114 said:
Everyone makes fun of Casserly and his draft picks, but if you have ever listened to him around the draft. The players and the deals that he has made is because Capers has really wanted those players. Capers wanted Babin!! Capers is the one who wanted Phillip Buchanon (yes I know this was a trade).

Capers wanted help on the D-Line and the guy he wanted they got. He wanted Travis Johnson, who was rated the top d lineman in last years draft. Not only did Casserly get T. Johnson he also picked up the 2nd overall pick in the 3rd for moving down 5 spots from last years draft.

What about the players Casserly have been successful with. Everyone wanted Cass to trade up a couple of years ago to get DeAngelo Hall, but Cass and Capers wanted D. Robinson more, I think that turned out well.

What about Dom. Davis (3rd Rd)? Jerome Mathis(4th rd) (our lone pro bowl player) CC Brown (6th Rd) ( I think CC is going to be a darn good SS for years to come), Demarcus Faggins (6th Rd)?? These players have already helped this team and will continue to help these team.

Casserly wasn't the problem. Capers was and thats why he lost his job. I'm happy they kept Casserly.
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DD was a 4th round pick.

Casserly has been solid with 1st round picks and has been really good at bargain picks in the later rounds.
 
HoustonFrog said:
He did no homework on Buchanan and the owner later did.
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That's not true. Casserly thought Buchanon had an upside that the an undisciplined ball club like the Raiders couldn't exploit. His opinion was that Buchanon's defects could be cured with coaching. And so far, I'm not inclined to disagree. I'd like to see what the new coach can do with Buchanon before I write him off as a player.
 
HoustonFrog said:
He is still the one that pulls the trigger and is therefore responsible. It iosn't his job to bow down to Capers. It is his job to study and make sure what he is hearing is right. He did no homework on Buchanan and the owner later did.
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Wrong!! Its Capers fault!! Capers wanted these players and told his GM that he would make them work and it didn't work out and thats why Capers will not be here next year. Cass. isn't going to draft players or sign players that the HC doesn't want because its not Cass's system out there on the field, its the HC's system.

Capers wanted P.Buc because he felt he could cover 1 on 1 and he was wrong and again like I said before, Capers will not be here after today!!
 
texanfan2002114 said:
Wrong!! Its Capers fault!! Capers wanted these players and told his GM that he would make them work and it didn't work out and thats why Capers will not be here next year. Cass. isn't going to draft players or sign players that the HC doesn't want because its not Cass's system out there on the field, its the HC's system.

Capers wanted P.Buc because he felt he could cover 1 on 1 and he was wrong and again like I said before, Capers will not be here after today!!
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It is his job to research them and to figure out whether the coach is doing his homework. He didn't do it on Buchanan. It is also his job to make the deal and not give up too much. He did a bad job. How can it not be the GMs fault when he is responsible for personell?No matter what Capers said, it is always in the hands of the GM in the end. If he doesn't feel comfortible with a move, then he can veto it. Did you not read the article about how McNair found out after the fact that other GMs and teams were saying to stay away from Buchanan?They had a cover corner in Glenn and they drafted three in the middle rounds in 2004.
 
HoustonFrog said:
It is his job to research them and to figure out whether the coach is doing his homework. He didn't do it on Buchanan. It is also his job to make the deal and not give up too much. He did a bad job. How can it not be the GMs fault when he is responsible for personell?No matter what Capers said, it is always in the hands of the GM in the end. If he doesn't feel comfortible with a move, then he can veto it. Did you not read the article about how McNair found out after the fact that other GMs and teams were saying to stay away from Buchanan?They had a cover corner in Glenn and they drafted three in the middle rounds in 2004.
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Yes I read the article but I guess you didn't read that Cass. had P.Buc rated very high coming out of college. If I am correct, Cass. had P.Buc rated the 1st or 2nd top DB coming out in the draft 4 years ago. I truely believe that with a good coach P. Buc will be a good player.
 
Marcus said:
Actually aj, I think it's a lot simpler than that. All the 'good' GMs are already happily employed by other teams. You can listen to all the fans blather on about Jimmy Johnson, Wolf, Reeves, and so on, but they're not interested.

Casserly is the GM because McNair can't find anyone better.
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There are probably a few 'good' GMs-to-be that are out there right now that we haven't heard of yet. They may be working as executive assistants or in some other high level capacity within an organization and haven't gotten their shot yet. I don't have any names to throw out but I'm sure the owners know (or at least I hope ours knows) who the hi - po's are that are out there working in the other 31 organizations. Whether any of them are available is another question.
 
Let's look at what Charley's done over the past few years.

Right off the bat, he had us counting on Tony Boselli to be our cornerstone at left tackle. HORRIBLE MOVE. This crippled the franchise from the very beginning by lending false hope and kept us from seeking out help elsewhere. Willie Roaf was available in the expansion draft and was still a quality starter for Kansas City as recently as yesterday.

Charley has done a fair job at selecting talent in the first round. But even a nitwit like me can just flip through a Mel Kiper draft book and tell you that a David Carr or an Andre Johnson is the best player available at the top of a draft. Dunta Robinson was an outstanding pick at # 10 overall, but what about Travis Johnson over Derrick Johnson? What about Jason Babin? What about Phillip Buchanan? What about Tony Hollings? What about selecting Jabar Gaffney AND Chester Pitts over Clinton Portis? WHAT!?!?!!!

See the Texans' drafts below and think about them. Has Travis Johnson really proved himself worthy of being taken over Derrick Johnson? Is Jason Babin really 1st round material? Was Bennie Joppru a good 2nd rounder? Was Dave Ragone really worth that 3rd rounder? "You can't have enough good quarterbacks." Allrighty then... Charles Hill???? Another wasted 3rd round pick.

I'm sorry, Charley. I used to be a BIG fan of yours. I used to defend you when I didn't necessarily agree with some of your moves. But ENOUGH ALREADY! This team has a few marquee names, but it is still SORELY lacking in the kind of talent it takes to compete and you simply aren't allowed to get worse rather than better in your 4th year......It's time for you to go.


2005
Round 1: DT Travis Johnson, Florida State
Round 3: RB Vernand Morency, Oklahoma State
Round 4: WR Jerome Mathis, Hampton
Round 5: C Drew Hodgdon, Arizona State
Round 6: S Ceandris Brown, Louisiana-Lafayette
Round 7: LB Kenneth Pettway, Grambling

2004
1 10 Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
1 27 Jason Babin OLB Western Michigan
4 122 Glenn Earl SS Notre Dame
6 170 Vontez Duff DB Notre Dame
6 175 Jammal Lord DB Nebraska
6 200 Charlie Anderson OLB Mississippi
7 210 Raheem Orr LB Rutgers
7 211 Sloan Thomas WR Texas
7 248 B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech

2003
1 3 Andre Johnson WR Miami
2 41 Bennie Joppru TE Michigan
3 67 Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati
3 75 Seth Wand T N.W. Missouri
3 88 Dave Ragone QB Louisville
4 101 Domanick Davis RB Louisiana State
6 192 Drew Henson QB Michigan
6 214 Keith Wright DT Missouri
7 217 Curry Burns DB Louisville
7 233 Chance Pearce C Texas A&M

2002
1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State
2 33 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
2 50 Chester Pitts G San Diego State
3 66 Fred Weary G Tennessee
3 83 Charles Hill NT Maryland
4 99 Jonathan Wells RB Ohio State
5 136 Jarrod Baxter FB New Mexico
5 153 Ramon Walker SS Pittsburgh
6 173 Demarcus Faggins CB Kansas State
6 190 Howard Green DT Louisiana State
7 229 Greg White DE Minnesota
7 261 Ahmad Miller DT Nevada-Las Vegas
 
aj. said:
There are probably a few 'good' GMs-to-be that are out there right now that we haven't heard of yet. They may be working as executive assistants or in some other high level capacity within an organization and haven't gotten their shot yet. I don't have any names to throw out but I'm sure the owners know (or at least I hope ours knows) who the hi - po's are that are out there working in the other 31 organizations. Whether any of them are available is another question.
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I think this is exactly what is happening. They can't find anyone better. I'm sure it will be dependent on this next year. TexansFanatic, great post. I've been saying that this whole time. Which one of those middle round players makes you go "Wow". Not many. He has wasted more picks then he got right and where are the O-lineman in those middle rounds. I see Dbs, RBs and QBs.
 
Bob Mcnair Must Really Like Throwing His Money Away Keeping This Trash On The Payroll, This Is The Guy Who Picked Up Phillip Buchanon, Who Can Be Burned By A 5 Year Old Playing Pee Wee Foootball. Get Real Bob Please Get Rid Of This Trash Fast, This Guy Has Made Too Many Bad Choices, And Watching Him On Tv On Ch. 13 Every Sunday Is Getting Old Licking The Same Wounds We Licked The Week Before.
 
TexansFanatic said:
Right off the bat, he had us counting on Tony Boselli to be our cornerstone at left tackle. HORRIBLE MOVE. This crippled the franchise from the very beginning by lending false hope and kept us from seeking out help elsewhere. Willie Roaf was available in the expansion draft and was still a quality starter for Kansas City as recently as yesterday.
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How so? Chester Pitts was chosen in the 2nd round of the Texans' first draft.

Willie Roaf did work out for KC, but he was a huge gamble because he was having really bad personal problems to go with his own injury problems.

And Boselli was never counted on. The Texans took him to get Gary Walker and Seth Payne - and I think Boselli was worth what we got in Walker and Payne.
 
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