Is David Carr all that bad?

[jerek]

Okay, let's assume this is true. I'll give David the Benefit of the doubt for these next three questions.

1) Dom Capers had to have known his job was in jeopardy.. Why wouldn't he let David take over, if he knew that what David did worked..... if he knew we(he) would have more wins if he didn't put a knoose around David, than if he did, then why not let the kid play?? This is his job on the line, and you're telling me he couldn't see what all the Carr supporters see, even though he(Dom) spent more time watching and evaluating David than any of us??

it just don't make sense to me.

2) Why didn't David throw off the knoose?? If he is the leader of the team, and knows the most important thing for the team, is to win games, why didn't he stick his neck out there more often, and not only when he is allowed?? Sometimes, you've got to just take charge, you shouldn't be told when to do it, and when not to. I understand, that he should listen to(obey) the head coach as much as possible, but at 2-14, if the coach is the problem.... what's it going to take for David to show that he is a leader?? If he's got the team behind him, then it shouldn't have been too difficult.

3)When things didn't go well, who did David express his frustrations too?? Have you ever seen him having a heated discussion with Capers on the sideline??

(1) It has been reported that Capers had too much faith in his assistants. Call him loyal, call him sackless, call him ignorant, but apparently the guy thought Pendry/Fangio were going to get the job done. Tell me Fangio's defense wasn't the epitome of disaster: well, I suppose Carr's magical FO stranglehold had something to do with that too? For that matter why did Capers, a "defensive specialist" continue to allow Fangio to ruin an NFL defense? ... Whatever Capers situation, you cannot make it a question of Carr's place in it. There was clearly a lack of intelligent leadership from top to bottom on this coaching staff and that is why most of them no longer work for us.

(2) This is really, really dumb. Carr is supposed to what, ignore Pendry's playcall, flip him the bird, convene the huddle, and substitute his own? Do that, and Pendry will be screaming for him to come out. So then what? Carr ignores Pendry, calls his own play again? Pendry runs out onto the field and puts Carr in an arm lock and leads him off? The players all rally around Carr's spirited display of insubordination and drive 99 yards and ... then what?

That **** only happens in the movies. No NFL player of any kind is going to sit there and do his own thing, because if there is one thing you can say about any NFL player it is that they like their paycheck. After we get through cutting Carr for that display, no coach in the league is going to take a quarterback who says **** you coach, I'm calling my own plays, no matter how "right" he may have been. TO was a ridiculously gifted player who was "right" about a lot of things, and he spent last season on his couch. An NFL team is still an organization, still a team, and there is still management and subordination and the necessity of respecting it. It just doesn't happen. As much as professional athletes are not particularly a model of decorum, there are certain professional standards and traditions that you do not violate. Come game day, a coach calls plays, a coach structures a quarterback's room to audible, and it is respected. As far as Vince's "dispute" with Mack Brown, Vince took it behind closed doors, talked it out, and apparently Brown gave him the freedom, switched up his offense to accomodate Vince. Vince didn't say screw you coach I am calling this instead in the middle of the game. There is a big, big difference, which leads me to ...

(3) Carr expressed his frustrations with the coaching staff, mostly behind closed doors. This I know, don't ask, you will not get an answer, so take with a grain of salt if you wish. Even if I am wrong, you cannot be mad at the guy because he chooses to show his coaches respect and doesn't ***** them out like a prima donna on the sidelines. Believe it or not, there are wrong ways and right ways to confront a person, and more than that there are personality traits that each player will act out of, and you can't fault Carr because he has the self control not to scream like an *****. This is right up there with those "haircut-equals-loser" arguments ... a guy doesn't cry and moan and pitch a fit, so he is heartless. Then those same posters who attack Carr for being heartless accuse him of being a bad locker room influence and disrespected by his teammates when he actually does get demonstrably pissed at Corey Bradford dropping his fifth pass of the game. Which is it? Decide, please, because this double standard is getting old fast.

 

[texplayer2]

((2) This is really, really dumb. Carr is supposed to what, ignore Pendry's playcall, flip him the bird, convene the huddle, and substitute his own? Do that, and Pendry will be screaming for him to come out. So then what? Carr ignores Pendry, calls his own play again? Pendry runs out onto the field and puts Carr in an arm lock and leads him off? The players all rally around Carr's spirited display of insubordination and drive 99 yards and ... then what?

That **** only happens in the movies. No NFL player of any kind is going to sit there and do his own thing, because if there is one thing you can say about any NFL player it is that they like their paycheck. After we get through cutting Carr for that display, no coach in the league is going to take a quarterback who says **** you coach, I'm calling my own plays, no matter how "right" he may have been. TO was a ridiculously gifted player who was "right" about a lot of things, and he spent last season on his couch. An NFL team is still an organization, still a team, and there is still management and subordination and the necessity of respecting it. It just doesn't happen. As much as professional athletes are not particularly a model of decorum, there are certain professional standards and traditions that you do not violate. Come game day, a coach calls plays, a coach structures a quarterback's room to audible, and it is respected. .

I watched a show the other day about how Bernie Kosar left the Browns. Called his own play and it went for a TD. Belichek let him go that week.

 

[thunderkyss]

(1)There was clearly a lack of intelligent leadership from top to bottom on this coaching staff and that is why most of them no longer work for us.

I'm just trying to get into their heads..... it doesn't make sense to me. Caper's Fires Palmer, and get's more of the same with Pendry.... how is it possible, that he doesn't listen to a word Carr says, even after his spectacular half in St. Louis...

(2) This is really, really dumb. Carr is supposed to what, ignore Pendry's playcall, flip him the bird, convene the huddle, and substitute his own? Do that, and Pendry will be screaming for him to come out. So then what? Carr ignores Pendry, calls his own play again? Pendry runs out onto the field and puts Carr in an arm lock and leads him off? The players all rally around Carr's spirited display of insubordination and drive 99 yards and ... then what?

That **** only happens in the movies. No NFL player of any kind is going to sit there and do his own thing, because if there is one thing you can say about any NFL player it is that they like their paycheck. After we get through cutting Carr for that display, no coach in the league is going to take a quarterback who says **** you coach, I'm calling my own plays, no matter how "right" he may have been. TO was a ridiculously gifted player who was "right" about a lot of things, and he spent last season on his couch. An NFL team is still an organization, still a team, and there is still management and subordination and the necessity of respecting it. It just doesn't happen. As much as professional athletes are not particularly a model of decorum, there are certain professional standards and traditions that you do not violate. Come game day, a coach calls plays, a coach structures a quarterback's room to audible, and it is respected. As far as Vince's "dispute" with Mack Brown, Vince took it behind closed doors, talked it out, and apparently Brown gave him the freedom, switched up his offense to accomodate Vince. Vince didn't say screw you coach I am calling this instead in the middle of the game. There is a big, big difference, which leads me to ...

The coach calls a play, David repeats it in the huddle, he sees the defense, and thinks I better call an audible. and he then audibles to whatever he wants.... when he gets to the sidelines, the coach can and he can have a talk about why he made the decisions he made. After this continues to happen, and Carr sees he can't win, then fine, do what they ask... Unless I've missed it, Carr hasn't had any beef, differences with the Coach. I don't know for that he blames Capers for the problems they have been having.

(3) Carr expressed his frustrations with the coaching staff, mostly behind closed doors. This I know, don't ask, you will not get an answer, so take with a grain of salt if you wish. Even if I am wrong, you cannot be mad at the guy because he chooses to show his coaches respect and doesn't ***** them out like a prima donna on the sidelines. Believe it or not, there are wrong ways and right ways to confront a person, and more than that there are personality traits that each player will act out of, and you can't fault Carr because he has the self control not to scream like an *****. This is right up there with those "haircut-equals-loser" arguments ... a guy doesn't cry and moan and pitch a fit, so he is heartless. Then those same posters who attack Carr for being heartless accuse him of being a bad locker room influence and disrespected by his teammates when he actually does get demonstrably pissed at Corey Bradford dropping his fifth pass of the game. Which is it? Decide, please, because this double standard is getting old fast.

There is a big difference between a heated discussion, and bitching out your coaches in public.... "My radio was screwed up, I thought that's what you said, won't happen again coach...."
Then what does it mean, that neither Palmer, Pendry, or Capers supported Carrs ability to think for himself?? or trust him enough to call real audibles?? Or that Carr couldn't convince people that a failing plan wasn't working?? 1 step drop?? How can you go into Sunday thinking that is going to solve your problems??

& for the record... I want to trade down.. I'm trying to come to terms of David Carr behind center one more year... I think drafting Reggie is the dumbest thing we can do, and hopefully all the dumb people left Houston when Capers heard the news. If we're going to draft someone with the #1 overall, I vote for Vince... But I'd much rather trade down.

 

[Wolf]

You saw what happened to some of the defensive players that made some noise about the coaching staff... deactivation.

 

[tsip]

I have a tough time accepting that it's OK for a RB or WR to make an adjustment on a called play but not the QB. If a run is called to go off LT-for example- but won't work, the RB may change the called play and try something else. If the QB gets into 'pressure' trouble, the WR may change the route and come back to the QB, for example. However, according to some posters, adjusting/improvising/changinging is not allowed by the QB-akin to a sin.

I still remember Montanna and Elway in the 4th qtr leading their teams to victory---was all that pre-determined and in the playbook? I don't think so...but that's just me.

 

[Wolf]

back to your question


1) I have no idea why Capers didn't cut Carr loose on the field. I have no idea why Banks played in SF instead of Ragone. I don't know why the Texans didn't sit Carr down when he struggled so maybe we could have gamefilm on someone else running our offense on gameday.

Capers is a better defensive coach IMO than a 31st or 32nd ranking for his team.. why didn't he take over the defensive playcalling???? esp when his job was on the line.

2) it is a thin line on that... If Carr starts doing his own thing, then rumors fly about him being a rebel or cancer in the locker room..and probably gets benched if he started doing his own thing.. so he follows his coaches decisions.IMO it is one of those things that when you win no one cares what you do, when you are losing,well the microscope get put on you