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Injury report: Texans vs eagles

infantrycak said:
Crack fans and media say he's a pansy for not playing through.
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My #2 son had the same injury from a slide tackle at his alumni game . He got scoped and missed his club year in college . He said what Clowney said that straight ahead was fine it was when he tried to cut it hurt .
 
Playoffs said:
Cushing and Clowney are OUT vs. Eagles.
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Source:
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock
Texans ILB Brian Cushing is OUT for tomorrow's game against the Eagles. Smart to get the 2 for 1 with the bye next week.
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infantrycak said:
Crack fans and media say he's a pansy for not playing through.
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thunderkyss said:
8.5 months??? whoa..... I missed that.
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
My #2 son had the same injury from a slide tackle at his alumni game . He got scoped and missed his club year in college . He said what Clowney said that straight ahead was fine it was when he tried to cut it hurt .
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Yeah, somebody needs to be advocating for these players whose careers are in the hands of these doctors...

And somebody needs to be advocating for the fans for all of the lost player-minutes and lost quality-player-minutes due to medical decisions made in contradiction to accepted research/practices. ( Do you think Derek Newton contributed to 2-14 last year?)

Dr. CND is/has been doing that -- is qualified to do that -- and if you go down that wormhole with him it's pretty darned eye-opening.
 
Playoffs said:
Source:
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock
​






Yeah, somebody needs to be advocating for these players whose careers are in the hands of these doctors...

And somebody needs to be advocating for the fans for all of the lost player-minutes and lost quality-player-minutes due to medical decisions made in contradiction to accepted research/practices. ( Do you think Derek Newton contributed to 2-14 last year?)

Dr. CND is/has been doing that -- is qualified to do that -- and if you go down that wormhole with him it's pretty darned eye-opening.
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http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/215119.You_re_Okay_It_s_Just_a_Bruise

http://espn.go.com/gen/s/2002/0912/1431095.html

Just as he had been cleared to practice after the team doctor noticed Novak could barely walk anymore and decided to cut open the bruise in order to squeeze the thick, coagulated blood out of a one-inch crevice -- like grape jelly from a condiment dispenser.

So, given the go-ahead, Jeff Novak pushed his 290 pounds all over an Ericsson Stadium field made muddy by a driving rain. And when his job was done that wet, sloppy evening, he picked the last of the grass blades from the hole in his bloated shin, shed a pair of bloody socks made pink by the rain, and once again turned to Dr. Stephen Lucie for answers.
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Last edited:
Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock
All 3 Texans players that were listed as QUESTIONABLE, Clowney, Cushing, Morris, will NOT play tomorrow.

Nope. Planned to play at beginning of week, ankle responded poorly. He's OUT, too. >>>>>>>>>> Morris back?
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Worst news so far, we needed his speed.
 
Playoffs said:
Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock


Worst news so far, we needed his speed.
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No matter how sick one might be, a healthy 21-year-old can sometimes recovery in a miraculously short-period of time. I get a bad feeling that it's JDs knee more than a bug. Damn I hope he doesn't end up being out the rest of the year.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
TK, I presented my thoughts on Clowney's potential course.......and the 2014 NFL study that Playoffs is referring to 3 weeks ago. I think you (and whoever else missed it) would probably find it interesting.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2400805&postcount=238
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I remember that... from that post:

CloakNNNdagger said:
Because the Texans put out such a short return to play prediction, I had to assume that the excision was a VERY small area. And yet I stated in an early post that I felt that rehab if all went well would legitimately require at least 6-8 weeks.......if all went well........and the injury was very minor (without additional "withheld" injury).



It would seem that the 4 short rehab outliers had very minimal meniscus damage in order to return so much sooner than the 8.5 month average. We can only hope that Clowney is one of those with minimal damage. However, we must always remember that short return to play period forced early due to inadequate rehab tends to carry bad outcomes.
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So right now, we don't know the extent of the tear, or that anything went wrong at all. Trusting these doctors are professionals, it isn't too far fetched to assume that the tear was minor since they stated a 4-6 week recovery time... & that the Texans did their due dillegence since he didn't return for 7 weeks.

Playoff's post makes it sound like we got more definitive information that the tear was indeed serious, or that there were other complications.
 
thunderkyss said:
So right now, we don't know the extent of the tear, or that anything went wrong at all. Trusting these doctors are professionals, it isn't too far fetched to assume that the tear was minor since they stated a 4-6 week recovery time... & that the Texans did their due dillegence since he didn't return for 7 weeks.

Playoff's post makes it sound like we got more definitive information that the tear was indeed serious, or that there were other complications.
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The fact that Clowney is experiencing "severe pain" indicates those professional doctors screwed up. At a minimum, they let him come back too soon.
 
thunderkyss said:
Playoff's post makes it sound like we got more definitive information that the tear was indeed serious, or that there were other complications.
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Playoffs said:
You have a surgery that calls for up to 8.5 months of recovery in NFL players...
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My post was only in reference to the study of NFL players who underwent the same procedure and the expected return to play time, authored by Dr. James Andrews amongst others...
Of the 77 partial lateral meniscectomies performed, 61% resulted in the athlete returning to play at his previous level of competition with an average length of time to RTP of 8.5 months...
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We can only infer with Clowney ( though there seems to be an information leak from within), but reports that even today he is experiencing "severe pain" in the knee is a pretty good sign they're pushing him back too quickly. Another sign is requiring Toradol injections to play last week(reported by McClain), as would be the knee needing to be drained.
 
Playoffs said:
My post was only in reference to the study of NFL players who underwent the same procedure and the expected return to play time, authored by Dr. James Andrews amongst others...
​
We can only infer with Clowney ( though there seems to be an information leak from within), but reports that even today he is experiencing "severe pain" in the knee is a pretty good sign they're pushing him back too quickly. Another sign is requiring Toradol injections to play last week(reported by McClain), as would be the knee needing to be drained.
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Clowney's knee has been drained?
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
You got the news on Saturday thusly it's time to pour .:party::beerfunnel::glasshalffull:
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Yep, I reloaded the fridge this morning.

10426549_10154854418250165_3297243452036518745_n.jpg
 
Playoffs said:
My post was only in reference to the study of NFL players who underwent the same procedure and the expected return to play time, authored by Dr. James Andrews amongst others...
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From that same report:

BACKGROUND:
Lateral meniscal injury is a common and possibly career-threatening injury among players in the National Football League (NFL). The rate of return to play (RTP) and factors that affect RTP after lateral meniscal injury in NFL players are currently not defined.
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& again, CnD took the 4-6 week recovery time as evidence as a minor tear & no further complications from the surgery.


Playoffs said:
We can only infer with Clowney ( though there seems to be an information leak from within), but reports that even today he is experiencing "severe pain" in the knee is a pretty good sign they're pushing him back too quickly. Another sign is requiring Toradol injections to play last week(reported by McClain), as would be the knee needing to be drained.
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I agree with this... in hindsight we can make further assumptions, but we're still talking assumptions based on information filtered through pancakes. If he misses the game tomorrow, they'll most likely blame it on the flu, we won't know till after the bye how his knee is. Either he plays or he doesn't, can't trust coach speak.

Playoffs said:
Study of NFL players says average time to return to play is ~8.5 months -- crack medical staff with the Texans give him pain shots and push him back out there in 7 weeks. Pain, smain. :runaway:
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But this..... this is different. This is using those assumptions as if they were fact. Before this study that came out this year, the "avg" RTP time was not defined & there were 4 cases of players coming back much sooner than 8.5 months....... for all we know, Jd could be the 5th.
 
thunderkyss said:
I remember that... from that post:



So right now, we don't know the extent of the tear, or that anything went wrong at all. Trusting these doctors are professionals, it isn't too far fetched to assume that the tear was minor since they stated a 4-6 week recovery time... & that the Texans did their due dillegence since he didn't return for 7 weeks.

Playoff's post makes it sound like we got more definitive information that the tear was indeed serious, or that there were other complications.
Click to expand...

"At least 6-8 weeks" means if all the stars lined up..........i.e., very minor tear/excision AND appropriate rehab progression without problems for being allowed to advance to practice OR game play..........being able to run in a straight line but not being able to cut and change direction, in addition to experiencing ongoing significant let alone severe pain, does not fall into the category of appropriate rehab progression for even full practice.
 
thunderkyss said:
From that same report:

​

& again, CnD took the 4-6 week recovery time as evidence as a minor tear & no further complications from the surgery.




I agree with this... in hindsight we can make further assumptions, but we're still talking assumptions based on information filtered through pancakes. If he misses the game tomorrow, they'll most likely blame it on the flu, we won't know till after the bye how his knee is. Either he plays or he doesn't, can't trust coach speak.



But this..... this is different. This is using those assumptions as if they were fact. Before this study that came out this year, the "avg" RTP time was not defined & there were 4 cases of players coming back much sooner than 8.5 months....... for all we know, Jd could be the 5th.
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These misinterpretations of both my post AND the NFL study are so egregious, they seem to be purposeful for the sake of argument only. I need to take a break.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
These misinterpretations of both my post AND the NFL study are so egregious, they seem to be purposeful for the sake of argument only. I need to take a break.
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I never claimed to be the smartest man in the room. I'm just laying out what I've read & how I understand it. Not trying to misrepresent anything & not trying to be argumentative.

It's curious that we recognize coachspeak for what it is when it doesn't fit what we "know" then how it's practically gospel when it supports our agenda. Who knows what it means when "someone" tells Mclain someone else felt "intense pain." All of a sudden, Mclain has unfettered access to the players? But when he says, "The Texans will draft a QB with the first pick in the 2014 draft," he's utterly clueless.

All I'm saying is we won't know the extent of Clowney's injury until he is on the field. If he's not on the field (which I'm being told is still a game time decision) against Philly, they're going to blame the flu..... whether or not it is his knee. If he's not on the field after the bye, I doubt it will be because of the flu & it would be hard, then, to rule out the knee.
 
From Dale Robertson:

Cushing, however, practiced Friday for the first time since before the Monday-night game in Pittsburgh and said his left knee was feeling much better. He sat out against the Titans after experiencing pain and weakness – he’s undergone major season-ending operations on the joint in each of the last two seasons – and there has been speculation that he wouldn’t return until the Texans’ next game, Nov. 16 in Cleveland.
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link

Funny the bits and pieces you pick up by reading various sources. I gather that "weakness" in this case is not being attributed to the flu (although that could be next week's excuse)........the most likely source of weakness, especially in his left knee is from long-term inability to practice (except sometimes for "limited") or to properly strength train as relates to his left leg due to pain and swelling and other things that have been going on in his knee for quite a while.
 
thunderkyss said:
But this..... this is different. This is using those assumptions as if they were fact. Before this study that came out this year, the "avg" RTP time was not defined & there were 4 cases of players coming back much sooner than 8.5 months....... for all we know, Jd could be the 5th.
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where did you find this statement, it's not in the linked article; which, granted is only the abstract of the whole study. I can't figure out how to get access to the entire study.
 
ObsiWan said:
where did you find this statement, it's not in the linked article; which, granted is only the abstract of the whole study. I can't figure out how to get access to the entire study.
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That's because it's only available through the full-subscription orthopedic medical journal. I've read the article in its entirety. Do you have a specific question I might be able to answer for you?
 
ObsiWan said:
where did you find this statement, it's not in the linked article; which, granted is only the abstract of the whole study. I can't figure out how to get access to the entire study.
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I got it from our local resource:
CloakNNNdagger said:

Keep the following in mind re. this study.

Among those who returned, the average length of time until return was 8.5 months, although 4 players returned during the same season. Regarding those 4 procedures, 2 surgeries occurred in October, with an average return time of 29 days, and the other 2 occurred in December, with return after 19 days in each case. However, 1 of these early returners required a subsequent partial lateral meniscectomy immediately after the season in
which he underwent the original surgery.

It would seem that the 4 short rehab outliers had very minimal meniscus damage in order to return so much sooner than the 8.5 month average. We can only hope that Clowney is one of those with minimal damage. However, we must always remember that short return to play period forced early due to inadequate rehab tends to carry bad outcomes.
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Like the man said, I'm just hoping Jd is one of those with minimal damage.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
That's because it's only available through the full-subscription orthopedic medical journal. I've read the article in its entirety. Do you have a specific question I might be able to answer for you?
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Apparently you'd already answered it in a previous post. TK re-posted it for me.
It was about the 4 unique players who beat the 8.5 RTP mean.
No way to know if Clowney will be the 5th or not.
I rather doubt it.
Simply because the Texans' luck has seldom been that good.
 
The Texans rushed Clowney back and are now using the flu excuse to cover their medical staffs incompetence. (Once Again)
 
610 is reporting that Clowney and Cushing are on the field "testing" if they can go today. I'm not going to comment on this except to say that, notwithstanding coming off of injury and the flu, I find it so questionable on all levels that they are even entertaining putting a rookie with NO practice for the entire week into a game.
 
houstonspartan said:
In fairness, some kind of bug is going around. It wouldn't shock me at all if Clowney is getting over some kind of bad head cold or something.
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NFL network showed him arriving at the stadium with a huge smile on his face... didn't look ill at all fwiw
 
Jadeveon Clowney, Brian Cushing inactive vs. PHI

Deepi Sidhu Writer/Columnist HoustonTexans.com
Link

Jadeveon Clowney and Brian Cushing top the list of players who will be inactive for Sunday’s game against Philadelphia.

Clowney, who returned last week against Tennessee following arthroscopic knee surgery, was listed as questionable with an illness and knee injury. Cushing practiced Friday after missing nearly two weeks while rehabbing his knee. The Pro Bowl linebacker was also inactive in Week 8.

Here is the complete list of inactive players in Week 9:

HOUSTON:
QB Tom Savage
WR DeVier Posey
CB Darryl Morris
ILB Jeff Tarpinian
ILB Brian Cushing
T Jeff Adams
OLB Jadeveon Clowney
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If only the rate of injury at NRG weren't so much worse than every other NFL stadium.
 
This game has been a very costly one for both sides.

Foles has a collar bone fracture which can show up on a simple x-ray. Tomorrow they will probably perform an MRI to see if there is any further shoulder trauma.
 
Herremans was placed on season-ending IR after having the utility of a one-armed blocking dummy........finally to have his torn biceps surgically repaired.
 
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