In case you were starting to doubt him

[TheCD]

98 yards on 28 carries? And so if I go out and get 100 yards on 150 attempts you would think those were good stats?

Name how many times a team has run 150 plays in a single game in the history of the NFL. Exactly. 3.5 ypc is above average (although slightly) and by no means poor performance. If you remember, our line played poorly in all areas of the game last year, and that includes running the ball. I'd say that, considering the circumstances, he played FAIRLY WELL. The running back (and the quarterback as well, for that matter) can't do everything on their own...they need a little help.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

In the West Coast offense, these types of pass plays are generally a common substitue for running plays. Not sure if that was the idea the team was going for...but Steve Young has always said that's how they played when he was there...

88888888888888888

Carreer Rushing to Passing yards ratio:

Edgerri James ~3.2:1

Eddie George ~5:1

Domanick Davis ~2.5:1

Tiki Barber ~1.9

Roger Craig (Young's RB) ~1.6

 

[TheCD]

Not quite sure what you're getting at Cloak...what point are you making, exactly?


Likewise, in another game, DD had 29 att for 153 yards, with a 5.3 ypc average against Baltimore. Is that the work of a supbar running back against a defense that ranked 5th in the NFL last year? I think not.


And just because DD hasn't produced the numbers that the other guys have doesn't mean he's not as good. An offensive line can make or break a runner's game.

Case in point: San Diego's game against Philadelphia last year. LT had 14 att for 7 (yes, SEVEN) yards, and a 0.4 ypc average for the game. Is that the marker of a "good" running back against a defense that ranked 23rd last year? I think not.

 

[texan279]

Not quite sure what you're getting at Cloak...what point are you making, exactly?


Likewise, in another game, DD had 29 att for 153 yards, with a 5.3 ypc average against Baltimore. Is that the work of a supbar running back against a defense that ranked 5th in the NFL last year? I think not.


And just because DD hasn't produced the numbers that the other guys have doesn't mean he's not as good. An offensive line can make or break a runner's game.

Case in point: San Diego's game against Philadelphia last year. LT had 14 att for 7 (yes, SEVEN) yards, and a 0.4 ypc average for the game. Is that the marker of a "good" running back against a defense that ranked 23rd last year? I think not.

Just because DD had one good game against one good defense and LT had one bad game against a bad defense, it is not going to convince me that DD is an elite back...

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Not quite sure what you're getting at Cloak...what point are you making, exactly?


Likewise, in another game, DD had 29 att for 153 yards, with a 5.3 ypc average against Baltimore. Is that the work of a supbar running back against a defense that ranked 5th in the NFL last year? I think not.


And just because DD hasn't produced the numbers that the other guys have doesn't mean he's not as good. An offensive line can make or break a runner's game.

Case in point: San Diego's game against Philadelphia last year. LT had 14 att for 7 (yes, SEVEN) yards, and a 0.4 ypc average for the game. Is that the marker of a "good" running back against a defense that ranked 23rd last year? I think not.

I am agreeing with you.........and not dogging DD. With the classic West Coast Offenses, you do expect the low ratios similar to what you see produced by DD..............but if you look at the QB passing stats in such successful schemes, they are usually quite impressive and make up for the more modest rushing stats of their RB's. DD had respectable stats for such an offense with no compensation/compliment by Carr's passing numbers. This year, either DD's stats or Carr's stats have to markedly improve for us to be heading in the right direction.

 

[texan279]

Not quite sure what you're getting at Cloak...what point are you making, exactly?


Likewise, in another game, DD had 29 att for 153 yards, with a 5.3 ypc average against Baltimore. Is that the work of a supbar running back against a defense that ranked 5th in the NFL last year? I think not.


And just because DD hasn't produced the numbers that the other guys have doesn't mean he's not as good. An offensive line can make or break a runner's game.

Case in point: San Diego's game against Philadelphia last year. LT had 14 att for 7 (yes, SEVEN) yards, and a 0.4 ypc average for the game. Is that the marker of a "good" running back against a defense that ranked 23rd last year? I think not.

Look at what else DD did throughout the season against bad defenses....

Against Buffalo 14 carries 48 yards 29th ranked defense
Against Seattle 18 carries 40 yards 17th ranked defense
Against Cleveland 29 carries 91 yards 16th ranked defense
Against KC 13 carries 57 yards 25th ranked defense
Against St Louis 25 carries 78 yards 30th ranked defense

 

[TheCD]

Look at what else DD did throughout the season against bad defenses....

Against Buffalo 14 carries 48 yards 29th ranked defense
Against Seattle 18 carries 40 yards 17th ranked defense
Against Cleveland 29 carries 91 yards 16th ranked defense
Against KC 13 carries 57 yards 25th ranked defense
Against St Louis 25 carries 78 yards 30th ranked defense

I never even once considered or said he was an "elite" back. I just said that 98 yards in a game was a fairly good performance. 100 yards in a game is a good game no matter who you are.

Let me put it in perspective for you:

If you rush 28 times for 100 yards, for an average of 3.6 ypc in every game, then by the end of the season these are your stats:

448 att. for 1600 yards, (still) for an average of 3.5 yards per carry.

Say what you want, but regardless of how many times you carry the ball, 1600 yards is a good amount.

Thus, you see, 98 yards is still a good average for a single back.


The NFL average for rushing yards per game for a TEAM last year was 112. So, a single player garnering 98 yards (just 14 yards shy of the average) in a game is alright by me.

 

[TexansSeminole]

I never even once considered or said he was an "elite" back. I just said that 98 yards in a game was a fairly good performance. 100 yards in a game is a good game no matter who you are.

Let me put it in perspective for you:

If you rush 28 times for 100 yards, for an average of 3.6 ypc in every game, then by the end of the season these are your stats:

448 att. for 1600 yards, (still) for an average of 3.5 yards per carry.

Say what you want, but regardless of how many times you carry the ball, 1600 yards is a good amount.

Thus, you see, 98 yards is still a good average for a single back.


The NFL average for rushing yards per game for a TEAM last year was 112. So, a single player garnering 98 yards (just 14 yards shy of the average) in a game is alright by me.

Id have to agree with that.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

DD's situational stats broken down many ways.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/player/splits/2005/395946

Whoa. Last year, he played 11 games. In 3 of them he averaged less than 3.5 yards a carry (Seattle, St. Louis, and Buffalo). In the others, he had some great games where he was tearing off more then 5 yards per pop (Baltimore, Cincy, KC, and Tennessee). Against the Titans, he averaged 6.6 yards per carry in 2 games.

Personally, I think that IF he's healthy and in an offense that gives him a chance, he's going to become a great back. I want to see him actually in this offense before I hail him as the next coming of the Earl, though.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

f you think those stats are "fairly well", I would hate to see a poor game.

18 attempts for 40 yards against Seattle. That was DD's worst game last season.

Or how about 17 attempts for 7 yards.... oh... wait... that was LaDanian Tomlinson.

Or how about Corey Dillon who had 4 games where he averaged less than 3 yards per carry.

But really, back in the day when a 1000 yard season meant something (way back when it was a 12 game season), you had to average 83.3 yards per game. 98 yards in a game for DD is fine. A 98 yard game is very good and nothing to sneeze at.

 

[thunderkyss]

Not trying to dis your opinion, but to me a great back is a Priest Holmes, LaDanian Tomlinson, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Edge James, or Clinton Portis. I just cannot put Davis into the same class of running back as these guys are in, and I do not think he will ever make it into that class IMO. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Davis sucks, I think he is a good running back, just not a great one.

Neither ShaunAlexander, Tiki Barber, or Priest Holmes had over 3000 yards their first 3 seasons in the NFL......

I pray that DD can come back healthy....... I hope to see what he can do behind a real Oline, with a real passing attack.......

 

[texan279]

18 attempts for 40 yards against Seattle. That was DD's worst game last season.

Or how about 17 attempts for 7 yards.... oh... wait... that was LaDanian Tomlinson.

Or how about Corey Dillon who had 4 games where he averaged less than 3 yards per carry.

But really, back in the day when a 1000 yard season meant something (way back when it was a 12 game season), you had to average 83.3 yards per game. 98 yards in a game for DD is fine. A 98 yard game is very good and nothing to sneeze at.

Ok how about these games by DD
Against Buffalo 14 carries 48 yards
Against Seattle 18 carries 40 yards
Against Cleveland 29 carries 91 yards
Against KC 13 carries 57 yards
Against St Louis 25 carries 78 yards

How about these games by LT
21 carries 192 yards against the Giants
25 carries 134 yards against New England
31 carries for 140 yards against Oakland
25 carries for 107 yards against the Jets
25 carries for 184 yards against Washington
19 carries for 92 yards against Denver

Just because DD's worst game last season was better than LT's worst game means nothing. He had 3 games over 100 yards, and 2 of those were against the titans, whose defense was ranked 22nd against the rush last season, and the other against Baltimore which I will give him credit for.

 

[texan279]

Neither ShaunAlexander, Tiki Barber, or Priest Holmes had over 3000 yards their first 3 seasons in the NFL......

I pray that DD can come back healthy....... I hope to see what he can do behind a real Oline, with a real passing attack.......

Shaun Alexander started one game his rookie season, and he has rushed for over 1100 yards in the 5 seasons since his rookie season, including 2 seasons with over 1600 yards rushing. Tiki Barber started 11 games total in his 1st 3 seasons, yet in his last 4 seasons he has rushed for over 1200 yards. Priest Holmes started in 17 games in his first 3 seasons, but in '01, '02, and '03 when he started in all games he rushed for over 1400 yards each of those 3 seasons, which in '02 he only played/started in 14 games and still got over 1400 yards and those 3 seasons are the only seasons he has started in at least half of the games for the season.

So let's add it up...

Alexander started started in 28 games and played in 48 games in his first 3 seasons and rushed for 1806 yards total. Tiki Barber started 11 games and played in 44 games his first 3 seasons and rushed for 935 yards total. Priest Holmes started in 17 games his first 3 seasons, played in 32 games his first 3 seasons, and DID NOT make ONE rushing attempt in his rookie season and rushed for 1514 yards. Davis has started in 36 games and played in 40 and rushed for 3195 yards his first 3 seasons.

Alexander - started in 28 games rushed for 1806 yards 32 TD's
Barber - started in 11 games rushed for 935 yards 3 TD's
Holmes - started in 17 games rushed for 1514 yards 8 TD's
Davis - started 36 games rushed for 3195 yards 23 TD's

Of course Davis will have more yards rushing his first 3 seasons, he started in 8 more games than Alexander, started in more than double the games Holmes started, and more than triple the games Barber started.

 

[texan279]

Also, to even try and compare DD to Holmes, Barber, and Alexander at this point is nuts. Davis has not even had a season with over 1200 yards or a season where he can stay healthy and start all 16 games, both of which the other 3 have done...

 

[thunderkyss]

Also, to even try and compare DD to Holmes, Barber, and Alexander at this point is nuts. Davis has not even had a season with over 1200 yards or a season where he can stay healthy and start all 16 games, both of which the other 3 have done...

At this point?? I'm comparing DD to those guys at their 3 year mark. They produced squat compared to DD............. Just wait, put DD on a good team, and he'll make those guys look like the chumps they are.

Of the three guys we are talking about, only Shaun Alexander went over 1200 yards, and was healthy for all three full seasons... their first three years....... you've got to stop comparing our three year running back to guys who've been in the league 5 or more years..... I don't doubt the really special guys, the LTs, the Emmit Smiths, the Barry Sanders, and Walter Paytons...... you know what you got in thier first three years....

but the other "great" backs...... Tiki, Holmes, LJ, Rikki Williams, Ron Dayne.....etc........ it takes a little time.....

Of course, he may never get the chance, since Capers done ran his knees to ****.......

I bet in the 3rd season of Shaun Alexanders career, or in Holmes 3rd year, or Barber's third year, you thought they weren't worth a damn.

Alexnder had one good year(1300 yards), and two piss poor years(one 1175, which is nothing by today's standards).........

Tiki Barber broke 500 yards once in three years....... he was available for 16 games 2 of the three years, and 12 games for the third....

& Priest Holmes was just injury prone........

IF DD had done all this on a team that was constently over .500, then I'd agree with you........ he's average at best, and won't ever produce much more than he has.

but on a team that has never been .500, a team with a week, inconsistant passing attack, a team with a conservative run on 1st & 2nd down mentality... you've just got to assume that he's got more to give.

I have to assume that you missed it, so I'll repeat it. you name the stakes. No excuses, no qualifiers. DD vs Jamal Anderson in 2006...... rushing yards vs rushing yards. I'm picking DD.

I honestly don't see how you've got David Carr going to the HOF, with the performance he's giving us.... a 4 year rookie...... and you've got DD slipping into oblivion. One was a #1 overall, who has not performed up to expectations........ the other a 4th round selection who has performed/produced well beyound all speculation..........

and this goes way beyound run blocking is different than pass blocking. We've had what 4 running backs in here prior to DD being named the starter..... none of them did squat......... those are avg running backs......... good but not great.

 

[TheCD]

But for all we know we might have tapped out DD's potential and left him injury prone and unable to play an entire season.


I can see the potential for disaster in DD as easy and you fail to see the potential for success in Carr.



Give our guys a break, PLEASE. They're about to be placed in a system that will set every one of them up for success. All I ask is that we give our guys 2 more years before we start saying they need to leave. By then, Carr's contract will only have one more year left anyways, so let's just try SUPPORTING our team rather than criticizing the guys who have underperformed thus far.


The coach's (and media's) job is to criticize, that's why we're not paid millions of dollars a year.

 

[texan279]

At this point?? I'm comparing DD to those guys at their 3 year mark. They produced squat compared to DD............. Just wait, put DD on a good team, and he'll make those guys look like the chumps they are.

Of the three guys we are talking about, only Shaun Alexander went over 1200 yards, and was healthy for all three full seasons... their first three years....... you've got to stop comparing our three year running back to guys who've been in the league 5 or more years..... I don't doubt the really special guys, the LTs, the Emmit Smiths, the Barry Sanders, and Walter Paytons...... you know what you got in thier first three years....

but the other "great" backs...... Tiki, Holmes, LJ, Rikki Williams, Ron Dayne.....etc........ it takes a little time.....

Of course, he may never get the chance, since Capers done ran his knees to ****.......

I bet in the 3rd season of Shaun Alexanders career, or in Holmes 3rd year, or Barber's third year, you thought they weren't worth a damn.

Alexnder had one good year(1300 yards), and two piss poor years(one 1175, which is nothing by today's standards).........

Tiki Barber broke 500 yards once in three years....... he was available for 16 games 2 of the three years, and 12 games for the third....

& Priest Holmes was just injury prone........

IF DD had done all this on a team that was constently over .500, then I'd agree with you........ he's average at best, and won't ever produce much more than he has.

but on a team that has never been .500, a team with a week, inconsistant passing attack, a team with a conservative run on 1st & 2nd down mentality... you've just got to assume that he's got more to give.

I have to assume that you missed it, so I'll repeat it. you name the stakes. No excuses, no qualifiers. DD vs Jamal Anderson in 2006...... rushing yards vs rushing yards. I'm picking DD.

I honestly don't see how you've got David Carr going to the HOF, with the performance he's giving us.... a 4 year rookie...... and you've got DD slipping into oblivion. One was a #1 overall, who has not performed up to expectations........ the other a 4th round selection who has performed/produced well beyound all speculation..........

and this goes way beyound run blocking is different than pass blocking. We've had what 4 running backs in here prior to DD being named the starter..... none of them did squat......... those are avg running backs......... good but not great.

Did you not post THIS in another thread?

running for 1000 yards is a big deal

And of course Davis got more yards than the other three, he started more games than all of them did in their first 3 seasons, Davis started more than double the games Holmes started in his 1st 3 seasons, more than triple the amount of games Barber started in his first 3 years, and 8 more games than Alexander started.

 

[TheCD]

Did you not post THIS in another thread?



And of course Davis got more yards than the other three, he started more games than all of them did in their first 3 seasons, Davis started more than double the games Holmes started in his 1st 3 seasons, more than triple the amount of games Barber started in his first 3 years, and 8 more games than Alexander started.

Yes, 1000 yards is a big deal, but the supposed "benchmark" is now between 1200-1500 depending on who you ask.


I take it with a grain of salt, though, because stats don't really prove the measure of a player.

If LT rushed for only 950 yards and 5 touchdowns in 16 games or Peyton Manning threw only 15 td's in a full season, does that automatically make them a bad player? No. you might fail to see that Philip Rivers (or whomever the QB may be) threw for 4000 yards and 40 td's or Joseph Addai/Dominic Rhodes rushes for 2000 yards and 27 overall td's.

Of course, these aren't necessarily likely to happen, but you see what I mean.

 

[texan279]

Yes, 1000 yards is a big deal, but the supposed "benchmark" is now between 1200-1500 depending on who you ask.


I take it with a grain of salt, though, because stats don't really prove the measure of a player.

If LT rushed for only 950 yards and 5 touchdowns in 16 games or Peyton Manning threw only 15 td's in a full season, does that automatically make them a bad player? No. you might fail to see that Philip Rivers (or whomever the QB may be) threw for 4000 yards and 40 td's or Joseph Addai/Dominic Rhodes rushes for 2000 yards and 27 overall td's.

Of course, these aren't necessarily likely to happen, but you see what I mean.

Go back and read my posts through this thread, I am not trying to say Davis is a bad player. The point I am trying to make is that Davis is a GOOD back not a GREAT back...

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Just because DD's worst game last season was better than LT's worst game means nothing. He had 3 games over 100 yards, and 2 of those were against the titans, whose defense was ranked 22nd against the rush last season, and the other against Baltimore which I will give him credit for.

That wasn't the point.

You said that if someone thought a 98 yard game was an example of running fairly well (which it is), you'd hate to see examples of bad games. So, I showed you some examples of bad games.

The point was that a 98 yard rushing game is a very good game. Anything over about 80 yards a game is very good. Domanick hasn't been able to get the consistency that he needs to be a great back. He hasn't rushed for over 1300 yards in a season, yet. But part of that is how he has been used and another part of that has been his health. Hopefully, both of those will cease to be problems in the near future.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

And of course Davis got more yards than the other three, he started more games than all of them did in their first 3 seasons, Davis started more than double the games Holmes started in his 1st 3 seasons, more than triple the amount of games Barber started in his first 3 years, and 8 more games than Alexander started.

Yeah. See. The point is that at this point in his career, DD was starting and these other guys weren't (or weren't as much). So, over the same periods of their careers, DD has been more productive.

 

[texan279]

Yeah. See. The point is that at this point in his career, DD was starting and these other guys weren't (or weren't as much). So, over the same periods of their careers, DD has been more productive.

Holmes didn't start his first two seasons because Bam Morris was the starter for Baltimore at the time, Ricky Watters started ahead of Alexander for one season, Alexander started after the beginning of his second season, 3 different backs started in Barber's first 3 seasons for New York for whatever reason. Who has been here to challenge Davis for the starting spot? James Allen? Jonathon Wells? Tony Hollings? Stacey Mack? If I am not mistaken, James Allen and Stacey Mack no longer play in the NFL, so he has never had much competition. Sure, Davis has produced more in his first 3 seasons, but he played and started in more games than all of the other three backs.

 

[thunderkyss]

But for all we know we might have tapped out DD's potential and left him injury prone and unable to play an entire season.


I can see the potential for disaster in DD as easy and you fail to see the potential for success in Carr.

I don't doubt David's potential for success..... I don't understand the no criticism of Carr thing we've got going on this MB........

Did you not post THIS in another thread?

ahh.... yes..... I should have used the thing......... I do believe 1000 yards is a big deal, especially when it's back to back to almost back. you said 1000 yards ain't crap, so in his first three years, Alexander only had one good year, where DD had none.......

And of course Davis got more yards than the other three, he started more games than all of them did in their first 3 seasons, Davis started more than double the games Holmes started in his 1st 3 seasons, more than triple the amount of games Barber started in his first 3 years, and 8 more games than Alexander started.

Right, that's a different argument I'm trying to head off altogether.... the injury prone argument.....

trust me, get him healthy, put him on a good offense, 1400 yards easy.....

 

[thunderkyss]

Go back and read my posts through this thread, I am not trying to say Davis is a bad player. The point I am trying to make is that Davis is a GOOD back not a GREAT back...

& I don't have a problem with that...... but you also say that Davis will never be a great back, even though his first three years were more productive than guys you agree are great backs...

So.... if DD was supposed to stop playing today, he won't be assured a place in the Hall of Fame, or even a place on the Houston Texans Ring of honor. I agree with that.

But the man's got heart, and a will to succeed, that is rare in the NFL....... it's been mentioned, that we may have ran the wheels off the poor guy already. I hope that is not the case.......

DD is not a great back, but he will be.................. if.....

 

[wicked_wayz]

give DD the oline that shaun has and he'd produce the same numbers as shaun.....
shaun is great but he wouldn't produce as much yards if he had the oline that DD has dealt with

 

[thunderkyss]

give DD the oline that shaun has and he'd produce the same numbers as shaun.....
shaun is great but he wouldn't produce as much yards if he had the oline that DD has dealt with

I honestly think it would've been about the same either way....... DD in Seattle, or Shaun in Houston.........

 

[texan279]

give DD the oline that shaun has and he'd produce the same numbers as shaun.....
shaun is great but he wouldn't produce as much yards if he had the oline that DD has dealt with

So if we put Carr behind Indy's line and gave him Indy's WR's he would put up Manning like numbers?

 

[texan279]

& I don't have a problem with that...... but you also say that Davis will never be a great back, even though his first three years were more productive than guys you agree are great backs...

So.... if DD was supposed to stop playing today, he won't be assured a place in the Hall of Fame, or even a place on the Houston Texans Ring of honor. I agree with that.

But the man's got heart, and a will to succeed, that is rare in the NFL....... it's been mentioned, that we may have ran the wheels off the poor guy already. I hope that is not the case.......

DD is not a great back, but he will be.................. if.....

Sure he produced more, but he played in more games. And look at Alexander's TD total compared to DD's in 8 less games started.
Alexander - started in 28 games rushed for 1806 yards 32 TD's
Barber - started in 11 games rushed for 935 yards 3 TD's
Holmes - started in 17 games rushed for 1514 yards 8 TD's
Davis - started 36 games rushed for 3195 yards 23 TD's

 

[TexansLucky13]

I remember that game clearly. I do believe that Mathis got one of his two returns in the second quarter of that one. But that one game, in itself, made me hate the "voice of the Texans" guy on the radio. I apologize that I do not remember the name, he is not important enough to me for me to expend brain power.

He made this game sound like it was the worst performance the Texans have ever had. He completely undermined the accomplishments of Mathis, Robinson and DD and focused on the negatives instead. He neglected to talk about the fact that we were tied at halftime. He made me so angry and every time I think about it I want to spam his email. Grrrrrr.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Go back and read my posts through this thread, I am not trying to say Davis is a bad player. The point I am trying to make is that Davis is a GOOD back not a GREAT back...

You are so obsessed with technicallities...

The people you are talking about are All-Stars...

Davis is very useful, therefor he is a great player.

 

[wicked_wayz]

So if we put Carr behind Indy's line and gave him Indy's WR's he would put up Manning like numbers?

maybe, but how well do you think manning can play if he had the oline and one decent WR that most teams double up on that carr has had for the past four years

 

[texan279]

You are so obsessed with technicallities...

The people you are talking about are All-Stars...

Davis is very useful, therefor he is a great player.

Sorry, but in my book, being useful does not translate into being great. I work with people who are useful workers, but not great workers. My piece of junk truck is useful, but not great, etc. And I am not obsessed with technicalities, there is a difference between a good player and a great player.

 

[TexansLucky13]

Sorry, but in my book, being useful does not translate into being great.

From what I understand, you are trying to say that DD is not a "great" RB, but could be if he were more durable?

If that is true, I agree. He is injured too often to be put in the same league as LT, Marshall Faulk, Edge, and others.

Now, if he can stay healthy all year.... we may have ourselves a contender.

P.S.- Either way, we have an above-average RB core. I'm excited to think about seeing Antowain Smith playing for the Texans, and it would be awesome to watch him carry the ball for us. Morency is a proven backup and I think he will fill in perfectly when called upon.

 

[HOU-TEX]

From what I understand, you are trying to say that DD is not a "great" RB, but could be if he were more durable?

If that is true, I agree. He is injured too often to be put in the same league as LT, Marshall Faulk, Edge, and others.

Now, if he can stay healthy all year.... we may have ourselves a contender.

P.S.- Either way, we have an above-average RB core. I'm excited to think about seeing Antowain Smith playing for the Texans, and it would be awesome to watch him carry the ball for us. Morency is a proven backup and I think he will fill in perfectly when called upon.

That is a big IF! It hasn't happened yet, so what would make anyone think it would be different this year. I think we should have multiple backs running the ball. DD has obviously not been able to handle the every down beatings of the NFL. So let's mix it up a little by rotating Smith, Lundy and maybe Morency. It would be fresh legs on the field.

Morency, IMO, hasn't proven jack! What has he done? I remember the Cardinals game I went to last year, he had a nice run for a TD and was flagged for taunting I think. So to me that hasn't been very impressive.:brickwall

 

[thunderkyss]

From what I understand, you are trying to say that DD is not a "great" RB, but could be if he were more durable?

If that is true, I agree. He is injured too often to be put in the same league as LT, Marshall Faulk, Edge, and others.

Now, if he can stay healthy all year.... we may have ourselves a contender.

P.S.- Either way, we have an above-average RB core. I'm excited to think about seeing Antowain Smith playing for the Texans, and it would be awesome to watch him carry the ball for us. Morency is a proven backup and I think he will fill in perfectly when called upon.

DDs production his first three years, are right in line with LT, Faulk, Edge, and others.... but he was on teams, that have been worse all around, than all the teams of those guys.....

Total Yards, Games played, YPC, etc.....

For some reason people want to believe Larry Johnson, Priest Holmes, Tiki Barber, Warrick Dunn, whoever........ were proBowlers from Day1, and they weren't. They couldn't even crack the starting line-up, and one guy was even accused of wearing a diaper.........

Ronnie Brown?? Cadillac Williams?? where they at?? DDs rookie year on a second year expansion team, was better than theirs........ and they both got hurt their rookie year...... and Cadillac started for 14 games and barely cracked 1000 yards...... Is Caddy ever going to be great?? I bet you think he will. Even though he did what he did on a playoff caliber team.

It's easy to judge talent when you look backwards, which is what some people are doing........ Tiki Barber is great....... Priest Holmes is great..... Larry Johnson is great....

 

[TexansSeminole]

Sorry, but in my book, being useful does not translate into being great. I work with people who are useful workers, but not great workers. My piece of junk truck is useful, but not great, etc. And I am not obsessed with technicalities, there is a difference between a good player and a great player.

There is also a difference in your POS truck, and the national football league.

 

[real]

Im sorry guys, but I just don't understand how you can label DD as a "great" back...He's good...But he's far from great...I don't see DD as the type of back that strikes fear into opponents...I doubt teams gameplan for him...I doubt defenders are worried about him when hes in the game...Im not saying they look at him as a scrub...I just don't think he can be classified as great...Honestly I look for DD to be replaced in the next two years...

 

[HOU-TEX]

Im sorry guys, but I just don't understand how you can label DD as a "great" back...He's good...But he's far from great...I don't see DD as the type of back that strikes fear into opponents...I doubt teams gameplan for him...I doubt defenders are worried about him when hes in the game...Im not saying they look at him as a scrub...I just don't think he can be classified as great...Honestly I look for DD to be replaced in the next two years...

I agree, due to injuries he probably won't last 2 more years. I think this year's hopefully going to take more load off of him going with rotating backs. I wish we could get a back like the one in your avatar

 

[TexansSeminole]

We'll see this season .

 

[thunderkyss]

Im sorry guys, but I just don't understand how you can label DD as a "great" back...He's good...But he's far from great...I don't see DD as the type of back that strikes fear into opponents...I doubt teams gameplan for him...I doubt defenders are worried about him when hes in the game...Im not saying they look at him as a scrub...I just don't think he can be classified as great...Honestly I look for DD to be replaced in the next two years...

Ok, as of now, I'm not saying he is great......... but that he has what it takes to be great......... simply because his first three years are comparable to many guys we all agree are great.....

When Marshall was with the Colts, he was just another 'back.......... when he started playing with the Rams, he was one of the greatest..... I think it is easy to draw the comparison.

What I find hard to believe, is that people on this board can look at one underperformer on this team, and have no doubt that he'll be a great player in this league...... Yet DD is one of the few who have produced on our team, and his greatness is in serious doubt..... heck, they'll dump him for the flavor of the month, on any given month......... especially in April..

 

[hollywood_texan]

Ok, as of now, I'm not saying he is great......... but that he has what it takes to be great......... simply because his first three years are comparable to many guys we all agree are great.....

When Marshall was with the Colts, he was just another 'back.......... when he started playing with the Rams, he was one of the greatest..... I think it is easy to draw the comparison.

What I find hard to believe, is that people on this board can look at one underperformer on this team, and have no doubt that he'll be a great player in this league, ...... Yet DD is one of the few who have produced on our team, and his greatness is in serious doubt..... heck, they'll dump him for the flavor of the month, on any given month......... especially in April..

I wonder whom thunderkyss is referring to?

Could it be...

You make a valid point.

The only things that have held Davis back are injuries and the team he has been playing on, which are really beyond his control. If he can stay healthly, Carr lives up to expectations, and Kubiak is as good as everyone thinks, Davis should become a very good back, and maybe even great, something like an Emmitt Smith.

Before anyone hammers me, all is ask is for the same slack you cut Carr. No more, no less.

 

[TwinSisters]

Before anyone hammers me, all is ask is for the same slack you cut Carr. No more, no less.

but you're not David Carr?



EDIT:

Also why is there an 8 on his wristband? Does he forget what number he is or something?? What's up with that?

 

[Wolf]

IMO what makes the difference between a great back and a good back

IMO DD is a very solid back. He runs hard. He keeps his feet churning and I am a fan of DD, BUT

Great backs have the ability to make people miss and then take it to the next level. Great backs can either pound a defense and wear them out and in the forth quarter break it.

DD I love his style, but he isn't a back that has breakaway speed and doesn't put the pressure on a defense (enough pressure) to specifically game plan around him.

Now with some real blocking on the OL, maybe with the blocking we can get him to the next level of the defense.

 

[Brandon420tx]

I wanna see DD go back to the way he played as a rookie, bouncing off of would-be tacklers, I remember the commentators referring to him as a pinball.

 

[TexansSeminole]

He should be getting back to that this year.

 

[texan279]

Ok, as of now, I'm not saying he is great......... but that he has what it takes to be great......... simply because his first three years are comparable to many guys we all agree are great.....

I guess going by that logic, Carr will be great also...Carr had a better completion percentage than all of these guys except Aikman in his third season and more passing yards in his 3rd season than everyone except Elway and Namath...


David Carr '02-'04

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 2002 hou | 16 | 233 444 52.5 25925.8 9 15 | 59 282 3 |
| 2003 hou | 12 | 167 295 56.6 2013 6.8 9 13 | 27 151 2 |
| 2004 hou | 16 | 286 467 61.2 3539 7.6 16 14 | 72 303 0 |

John Elway '83-'85

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1983 den | 11 | 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 | 28 146 1 |
| 1984 den | 15 | 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 | 56 237 1 |
| 1985 den | 16 | 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 | 51 253 0 |

Terry Bradshaw '70-'72

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1970 pit | 13 | 83 218 38.1 1410 6.5 6 24 | 32 233 1 |
| 1971 pit | 14 | 203 373 54.4 2259 6.1 13 22 | 53 247 5 |
| 1972 pit | 14 | 147 308 47.7 1887 6.1 12 12 | 58 346 7 |

Randall Cunningham '85-'87

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1985 phi | 6 | 34 81 42.0 548 6.8 1 8 | 29 205 0 |
| 1986 phi | 15 | 111 209 53.1 1391 6.7 8 7 | 66 540 5 |
| 1987 phi | 12 | 223 406 54.9 2786 6.9 23 12 | 76 505 3 |

Troy Aikman '89-'91

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1989 dal | 11 | 155 293 52.9 1749 6.0 9 18 | 38 302 0 |
| 1990 dal | 15 | 226 399 56.6 2579 6.5 11 18 | 40 172 1 |
| 1991 dal | 12 | 237 363 65.3 2754 7.6 11 10 | 16 5 1 |

Steve McNair '95-'97

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1995 hou | 6 | 41 80 51.2 569 7.1 3 1 | 11 38 0 |
| 1996 hou | 10 | 88 143 61.5 1197 8.4 6 4 | 31 169 2 |
| 1997 ten | 16 | 216 415 52.0 2665 6.4 14 13 | 101 674 8 |

Warren Moon '84-'86

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1984 hou | 16 | 259 450 57.6 3338 7.4 12 14 | 58 211 1 |
| 1985 hou | 14 | 200 377 53.1 2709 7.2 15 19 | 39 130 0 |
| 1986 hou | 15 | 256 488 52.5 3489 7.1 13 26 | 42 157 2 |

Joe Namath '65-'67

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1965 nyj | 13 | 164 340 48.2 2220 6.5 18 15 | 8 19 0 |
| 1966 nyj | 14 | 232 471 49.3 3379 7.2 19 27 | 6 42 2 |
| 1967 nyj | 14 | 258 491 52.5 4007 8.2 26 28 | 6 14 0 |

Phil Simms '79-'81

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1979 nyg | 12 | 134 265 50.6 1743 6.6 13 14 | 29 166 1 |
| 1980 nyg | 13 | 193 402 48.0 2321 5.8 15 19 | 36 190 1 |
| 1981 nyg | 10 | 172 316 54.4 2031 6.4 11 9 | 19 42 0 |

Fran Tarkenton '61-'63

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1961 min | 14 | 157 280 56.1 1997 7.1 18 17 | 56 308 5 |
| 1962 min | 14 | 163 329 49.5 2595 7.9 22 25 | 41 361 2 |
| 1963 min | 14 | 170 297 57.2 2311 7.8 15 15 | 28 162 1 |

Steve Young '85-'87

| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1985 tam | 5 | 72 138 52.2 935 6.8 3 8 | 40 233 1 |
| 1986 tam | 14 | 195 363 53.7 2282 6.3 8 13 | 74 425 5 |
| 1987 sfo | 8 | 37 69 53.6 570 8.3 10 0 | 26 190 1 |

 

[TexansSeminole]

Nice, well i think the major concernes from Carr are his sometimes bad instincts, we'll call it inconsistancy. His inability to avoid the rush.

But he seems to get it done in the stat column, I dont expect bad things from Carr this season, he has ability, lets see if this new coach can utilize it.

 

[TwinSisters]

Simms and Bradshaw are pretty good evidence to submit to justify a case of Carr-Love. The rest of the guys on the list were already blowing it up in some capacity or another, so Carr cannot hold up to them.

Maybe McNair too ( but I think he was doing alright by his 4th season ).

The completion percentage stuff and yards are out of whack due to the changes in rules, number of games, etc. So in that light... Joe Namath 4,000 yards, hot daing!!

 

[texan279]

Simms and Bradshaw are pretty good evidence to submit to justify a case of Carr-Love. The rest of the guys on the list were already blowing it up in some capacity or another, so Carr cannot hold up to them.

Maybe McNair too ( but I think he was doing alright by his 4th season ).

The completion percentage stuff and yards are out of whack due to the changes in rules, number of games, etc. So in that light... Joe Namath 4,000 yards, hot daing!!

No Carr love, just trying to prove a point. The post as a whole was sarcasm. TK said that DD has what it takes to be great because his first 3 seasons are comparable to other great backs. So I posted Carr's 1st 3 seasons compared to other QB's 1st 3 seasons, so if he thinks DD will be great based on stats alone, then based on his way of thinking Carr will too be great. Which no one knows whether either will do anything spectacular in the NFL at this point...

 

[TwinSisters]

o yeah I understand what you are doing or saying Tex. I think I agree too.

( that's funny typing that here! Tex. @*&%@$ everybody is Tex! no wonder you used a number! )
---

But still Simms and Bradshaw make a good solid case for supporting Carr. Once Bradshaw got a crew around him, he didn't lose games. He won games with the threat of his arm and his defense afforded him lots of room to make mistakes and take risks. ( I will make this very clear though... Carr is nothing like Bradshaw from everything I have seen so far )
---

I don't think Davis is that good... HOWEVER I do believe he has performed better then Carr has in 3 years compared to Carr's 4. I say this because Davis ranked in the top ten of the 2004 NFL in a few categories, while Carr has never ranked in the top ten in any major category.

I don't pay much attention to completion percentage for various reasons... one important one would be that you should be throwing the ball away instead of taking a sack. The second one is that a QB might have thrown a safe short pass on 2nd/3rd and long when they should have gambled for the risky long WR for the first down.

Thus somebody might have a higher % and that would be a bad thing.

Here's the chart I was using to compare the two with the rest of the NFL
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/misc/leaderindex.htm

( The Hidden Game of Football is a good book to pick up too )