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If we take Bush, will you be upset?

tulexan said:
So tell me how you know for a fact that Vince Young will be better than all of them?
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Just look at what he did for Texas, a perennial underachieving, overrated college team that hadn't really gotten close in 35 years. Just watch the last two Rose Bowls. Just ask the players who have played with him. He wills a team to victory. He has what stop watches and scouting reports can't quantify. He is the best college football player in a generation. I'd risk it and wouldn't think twice. If he's a bust, so be it. Start over. If you screw up and let him kick your *** for a division rival that used to call your city home. That's just unacceptable. Especially for those of us who grew up with Luv ya Blue.
 
I would be disappointed.

Vince can do everything that Reggie does PLUS he can handle more than 15 touches a game.

200 pound - outside running scatback?

Pass.
 
Does anyone believe that Vince will start day 1? What about Reggie?

It's tough but I remember what Portis did with that cutback zone -blocking in Denver. He hit the hole and then hit the house. If we want to win right away, I think Kubiak will pick a guy who becomes our #1 back and our #2 WR from Day 1.

But I like Vince too...I just don't want to wait 2 more years....
 
Wordem said:
Just look at what he did for Texas, a perennial underachieving, overrated college team that hadn't really gotten close in 35 years. Just watch the last two Rose Bowls. Just ask the players who have played with him. He wills a team to victory. He has what stop watches and scouting reports can't quantify. He is the best college football player in a generation. I'd risk it and wouldn't think twice. If he's a bust, so be it. Start over. If you screw up and let him kick your *** for a division rival that used to call your city home. That's just unacceptable. Especially for those of us who grew up with Luv ya Blue.
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Yes lets see what he did with Texas. Two years ago they should have been a BCS team but got screwed because Oklahoma was ranked #2 and Kansas State won the Big 12. Last year they went to a BCS game and won. This year they went to the National Championship game because Oklahoma was in a rebuilding season. He didn't turn the team around from being one of the worst in the NCAA to a National Championship team. He turned them from a perrenial BCS team to a National Championship team. Congratulations on your win, but Vince Young is not God.
 
DRAMA said:
But I like Vince too...I just don't want to wait 2 more years....
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You'll still have to wait even with Bush. He's not getting this team anywhere in the next two years. He won't get them to the playoffs any more than DD. Take the special player. Take the difference maker. Do the right thing for the City of Houston and your fans. Take the hometown kid. You have absolutley nothing to lose in Vince Young. He's that good and he touches the ball every down.
 
TexanSam said:
Before Vince Young's marvelous game against USC, a bunch of you were all for Bush coming here. If the Texans do pay Carr for the next 2 or 3 years (depending on which option they take) and don't draft Young and take Bush, will you be upset?
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I'm afraid Casserly doesn't understand Houston well enough. Earl Campbell, Nolan Ryan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Roger Clemens, our homeboys have been embraced in a wonderful way, and made their respective teams a joy for the whole city.

The Texans have lost 1/2 of the city, bringing VY into the fold would get them back, they would even have apass for 3-4 more years to get good. As a quarterback you're either a winner and leader or you're not. David Carr is clearly not a winner. An offensive line does not a quarterback make. I've been a football fan my whole life. You can see a winner through his development, David Carr will never be a winner, and I can guarantee Casserly and Mcnair will lose between a quarter-half of the city until they are winners in the playoffs, which with Carr may never happen. Does anyone honestly believe Bush will make the difference. He will simply be a playmaker that may make us respectable, but he cannot lead us to Super Bowls. That comes from a Quarterback that won't be denied and a defense that says you ain't scoring on us. See almost every champion, (ie the Patriots, the Longhorns). If Casserly passes on Young the Texans will be destined to be a pathetic franchise forever and cursed forever. I hope he and Bob Mcnair truly understand how big of a mistake it will be to pass on Vince. Who is he most like Randall Cunningham, highest winning percentage as a quarterback in NFL history, Michael Vick, wins a lot more than he loses despite his inability to pass. I miss Luv Ya Blue. Houston can have that back. Bob please don't let Charlie screw this up!!! VY will be the franchise's savior, I don't care what we have to with Carr and what sacrifices we have to make short run to make that switch, build around him, you won't regret it, Kubiak can help his development. What do you think?
 
Look, we all like Vince here but let's be serious for a moment. You can't be talking about him as a running QB, his best featuree, because NO QB runs in the NFL - period (Don't use Vick - he sucks!). So, you must be talking about his arm, leadership, etc...which i agree are all very good. But to call him a sure thing because he's a freak is not accurate. Freaks does not equal franchise.

However, Reggie Bush WILL be schemed for...as will Vince, I know. But if Kubiak can do with Carr what he did with Plummer (OMG!! Did I just say that??) then we'll be fine with Reggie and yes, he'll contribute instantly from day 1. Yes, he will make us MUCH better. Yes, he will fill 2 positions on our team. Yes, I think Vince Young will be fine.

Nobody in Houston whines because we didn't draft Jordan - only Portland does that. If we trade down, call us the Houston Bowies.
 
E-Dawg said:
I'm afraid Casserly doesn't understand Houston well enough. Earl Campbell, Nolan Ryan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Roger Clemens, our homeboys have been embraced in a wonderful way, and made their respective teams a joy for the whole city.
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This is why VY will be a Texan. McNair would be a fool not to take him. If not, there will be just as many Titans jerseys in Reliant when VY comes to town as there are Texans jerseys. He'll come to his financial senses and take Young. He's not that stupid.
 
Wordem said:
No--but he's by far the best player on the board. By far.
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You've got to be kidding me. Is that you Bus? Bus Cook what are you doing in here stirring the pot up for? How much are you going to make on ol' Vince anyway? Just asking.
 
This is a total no-brainer. With Vince Young the Texans get a leader.
A quarterback that can run. How many times has Carr had to scramble and then throw the ball away on 3rd down. With Vince we pick up the 1st down and move the chains!! Vince Young will put a lot more people in the stands then Reggie Bush. They may even have to add seats.
 
I really wish this board had the "classic moments" like on the Clutchfans BBS. All of these absolute statements made in the past couple of days would be great to look back at in a couple years. :)
 
TexanSam said:
Before Vince Young's marvelous game against USC, a bunch of you were all for Bush coming here. If the Texans do pay Carr for the next 2 or 3 years (depending on which option they take) and don't draft Young and take Bush, will you be upset?
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I will be pissed, and to be honest, I'll probably be holding a grudge until they prove to me that they made the right decision. I agree that not everyone is on the Bush bandwagon....I've been VERY skeptical of that option. BTW...I think a lot of people in Texas were for Bush coming here because he was the best "gamebreaker" in the draft. Most Texans that keep track of the Longhorns didn't expect VY to come out this year. It wasn't his spectacular game that made us want him...we've seen that in many different games. It WAS his spectacular performance that propelled him to entering the draft this year instead of next year. That changed everything. Now VY is the best "gamebreaker" in the draft.
 
dtran04 said:
I really wish this board had the "classic moments" like on the Clutchfans BBS. All of these absolute statements made in the past couple of days would be great to look back at in a couple years. :)
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No doubt about that...

jza7nb.gif


:cool:
 
i wont be upset....i will be a little sad, especially if all of my predictions of him being a bust come to fruition...if reggie bottoms out i can here you now......

but, but, its not reggies fault, nobody could run behind this line. Im already hearing the excuses. I will be first in line for my crow if bush is half the superstar you think he is. i would rather have young or dbrick. just remember who predicted reggies falling if he does.
 
Rocknroll said:
Vince Young will put a lot more people in the stands then Reggie Bush.
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Exactly. Reggie Bush will not sell tickets nearly as much as VY, until VY comes as a Titan. Taking Vince not only makes football sense, it makes financial sense.

If McNair fails with Young, he will get a pass. If he fails with Bush and Young succeeds in Tennessee, he will never live it down in this city.
 
It's hard to be upset when we take a talent like Bush, who I think will help this offense in many ways SOON, and I will be excited to have him....

Yet, Vince Young in the long term is imo by far the better choice. If you want to win soon, take Bush, if you want to be even better in the long run take Young.

It's a nice dilemma to have. Two dyanimic talents who can both help take us to the show. It's almost a tie to me....but to me the tie breaker is that the QB has his hands on the ball every single snap, and that he is likely to have a much longer career than Bush, and then you have the emotional aspect...the poor hometown gangbanger made good, a real rags to riches story. From a marketing perspective, this isn't even close.

Lastly, I think there is actually much less risk in taking Young from a marketing persepctive. If they draft Bush, and he busts while Young is leading our arch rival to the SB, Mcnair will NEVER live it down. If they draft Young, and he busts, the fanbase will be much more forgiving. I can almost see the engraving on the tombstone now -

Bob Mcnair 1941 - 200?
Loving father and husband
Failed to draft Vince Young
Did we mention - Failed to draft Vince Young
 
Of the two, Bush will be the more successful player in the NFL at their respective positions. Vince will only be allowed to do 25% of what he did in college. 100% of Bush > 25% of Vince.

Draft Bush.
 
Until Reggie declares, VY is the #1 pick. Wouldnt it be great to see what would happen if Bush goes back to USC for his Senior year?
 
Keldar said:
Of the two, Bush will be the more successful player in the NFL at their respective positions. Vince will only be allowed to do 25% of what he did in college. 100% of Bush > 25% of Vince.

Draft Bush.
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You are mistaken. You'll see. Vince Young will change the NFL. Just wait. Reggie Bush is nice, but not special.
 
Keldar said:
Of the two, Bush will be the more successful player in the NFL at their respective positions. Vince will only be allowed to do 25% of what he did in college. 100% of Bush > 25% of Vince.

Draft Bush.
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WHAT? First of all, Bush didn't have Bush-like numbers against the only true defense he faced all season. In the NFL, all defenses are fast and atheletic (unless you're playing the Texans). It's not guaranteed that Bush will be as eye-popping in the NFL. He only carried the ball 12-15 times a game on average. That leaves unaswered questions about his durability...not to mention he's only 190 lbs.
 
LCROD said:
Until Reggie declares, VY is the #1 pick. Wouldnt it be great to see what would happen if Bush goes back to USC for his Senior year?
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We can dream can' we. Well, Bush hasn't declared yet. Maybe he has a sour taste in his mouth from his last game. Or maybe he doesn't want to be part of a team that has no O-line and will expose him. I'm sure he was hoping that SF got the #1 pick anyway so he could stay in Cali...I bet they would have stuck with their "hometown hero". We should do the same and take VY.
 
Porky said:
I can almost see the engraving on the tombstone now -

Bob Mcnair 1941 - 200?
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I know this was written in jest, but you could have at least put two question marks instead of just one. I am sure Bob plans to be here past 2009.

Long live Bob!
 
Scooter said:
i'll be disappointed if we draft either one of em.
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COuldn't have said it any better myself. I think we benefit getting a defensive player by trading down in the 1st round, then work on the O-Line and a TE! Just my opinion...

And ppl who think that VY is a mraketable move and a boost to our team, what if we get VY and we still lose. Was it still worth it if we lose games? Are ppl still going to flock to Reliant Stadium to see their hometown boy lead us to another losing season (not saying he will, it's just a hypothetical)...
The only way Bob McNair gets financial out of this franchise is to win, no matter who it is that helps turn it around, Reggie, Vince, Carr, DD or anyone else in the draft or FA...
 
Is the possibility of the Saints taking Young instead of Lienart being considered here?

Or will all the Longhorn/Texan fans become Longhorn/Titan fans because of the 100% certainty that the Saints will take Lienart and Young will end up in Possum Holler? How many Longhorn/Texan fans will become Longhorn/Saints fans if Young ends up in the Big Easy?

If Young or Bush is a Texan next season, I will still be at the games cheering for my team. If we trade the pick, I will still be at the games.
 
tulexan said:
How do you know? Have you followed Notre Dame and Louisville as much as you have followed UT? Have you even seen Ryan Perriloux play? And Jimmy Clausen isn't even in college yet.

So tell me how you know for a fact that Vince Young will be better than all of them?
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Darn what did Vince Young do to You? Did you lose money on the Rose Bowl? None of those you mention will amount to the class of 2002(Carr,Harrington). Stop the hating!!!!
 
LOL!

There's never any gray area in this discussion. One either hates Vince Young or hates Reggie Bush. There is no middle ground.
 
So because I do not believe that Vince Young will be the greatest QB of all time, I am hating?
 
I would be mildly upset if the Texans drafted Young or Leinart, but I know that won't happen so I'm not worried about it. I won't really be upset if we draft Bush, although I think the best option for our team will be to trade down.
 
gwallaia said:
LOL!

There's never any gray area in this discussion. One either hates Vince Young or hates Reggie Bush. There is no middle ground.
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i like both.


but i hate those trade downers!
 
DRAMA said:
Look, we all like Vince here but let's be serious for a moment. You can't be talking about him as a running QB, his best featuree, because NO QB runs in the NFL - period (Don't use Vick - he sucks!). So, you must be talking about his arm, leadership, etc...which i agree are all very good. But to call him a sure thing because he's a freak is not accurate. Freaks does not equal franchise.

However, Reggie Bush WILL be schemed for...as will Vince, I know. But if Kubiak can do with Carr what he did with Plummer (OMG!! Did I just say that??) then we'll be fine with Reggie and yes, he'll contribute instantly from day 1. Yes, he will make us MUCH better. Yes, he will fill 2 positions on our team. Yes, I think Vince Young will be fine.

Nobody in Houston whines because we didn't draft Jordan - only Portland does that. If we trade down, call us the Houston Bowies.
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Are u saying Carr is as good as Plummer?
 
stevo3883 said:
i like both.


but i hate those trade downers!
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Not to mention the Trade Downer crowd. They obviously hate both Young and Bush. How in the world can these people look themselves in the mirror when they are filled with so mush HATRED?
 
I would only hate the drafting of Bush decision if the Texans are doing it blindly. In other words, if they agree to a contract like a month or two before the draft like they did with Carr, they did not seriously pursue any other options like trade down, or really evaluating Vince young in detail.
 
tulexan said:
Yes lets see what he did with Texas. Two years ago they should have been a BCS team but got screwed because Oklahoma was ranked #2 and Kansas State won the Big 12. Last year they went to a BCS game and won. This year they went to the National Championship game because Oklahoma was in a rebuilding season. He didn't turn the team around from being one of the worst in the NCAA to a National Championship team. He turned them from a perrenial BCS team to a National Championship team. Congratulations on your win, but Vince Young is not God.
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He has improved every year and if you don't think the ONLY reason they won a national championship game wasn't VY, then you are blind. The guy is a leader and WINNER. They wouldn't even be in a champioship game or near one without him. He stepped up his game, worked hard in the offseasons, LED and was a WINNER. Things the Texans don't have...leader or winners right now.
 
Well, I would personally go with Reggie. One, he can run. Two, he can catch. Three, he can return punts. And finally, he can PASS too!!:drool:
 
common_fan said:
Well, I would personally go with Reggie. One, he can run. Two, he can catch. Three, he can return punts. And finally, he can PASS too!!:drool:
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I'm pretty sure Reggie Bush won't be our QB of the future. That title sticks with Carr. Although, I wouldn't mind Bush being the 2nd player to complete a pass to himself (Dave Ragone did it a couple of years ago when he started a game).

I say go with Bush or trade down. Nobody knows what Carr can do until he actually has more than 2 seconds to throw the ball. I don't want Vince Young. If half the stadium fills up with Titans jersey's with "Young" on the back if VY goes there, then that just shows me that half of the Texans fans are bandwagoners. I'm rooting for my team no matter who they choose. One player doesn't change my loyalties.
 
if we spend our 1st pick on reggie bush, there is no way they are gonna risk him by returning punts....so get that out of your head.
 
swtbound07 said:
if we spend our 1st pick on reggie bush, there is no way they are gonna risk him by returning punts....so get that out of your head.
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I'm just pointing out the abilities that he has. I'm sure the new HC wouldn't want VY out there risking any injuries due to the Oline. But I wasn't trying to say the Texans were actually going to put him out there for punt returns.
 
abbest said:
Are u saying Carr is as good as Plummer?
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I think he's saying that Carr might be but we'd never know because Carr spent the past four years trying to make an offense designed to please Chris Palmer, Dom Capers, and then Joe Pendry work.

It's a possibility. Considering what Kubiak did with Brian Greise and then looking at what he did once he got out away from the Denver offense I'd say it's even better than 50/50.
 
After the Rose Bowl I can't help but be somewhat swayed by the hype and lean towards wanting Young. However, I still think Bush could become a great RB. I like them both, and although I'd like Young or Bush for the instant gratification, it might be more fruitful in the long run to trade down. Each plan merits attention, and I'll withhold criticising the new regime until I see the results. I think any of those options will improve this team. Barring bad luck, there is no wrong choice, IMO. One player or draft will not make or break this franchise. Football is a team sport, remember?
 
blockhead83 said:
... it might be more fruitful in the long run to trade down... One player or draft will not make or break this franchise. Football is a team sport, remember?
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This post is the only reason I'm here: to give my opionion and maybe/hopefully have some impact on the front office, hell me and my family have been Houston pro football season ticket holders since 1977 and maybe they will read some of these lame threads.

Football is a team sport and Vince Young is one of the most phenomenal players to ever enter the NFL draft. He, as a single player, the quarterback, you know, the one who touches the ball every freaking play; dominated the supposedly "best college football team ever" to win the national championship. Who in there right mind didn't know that he would score on that last fourth down. Everyone watching knew he would run right and because he is such a good passer they were helpless. This is why this pick is so important, because it is rare to find a single player who can completely change a team and a franchise. Just like Jordan did.
 
lets just get something straight...vince young "willing his team to win" = tucking and running. yeah, him and andre are gonna be REAL close, wide open offense i tell ya'..."it is what it is". never thought i'd say this but...bush in '06 (following the heroyvel draft model) :redtowel:
 
Nah. Would not be upset. If the picks end up puting us in the same situation as this nightmare season, then yeah I'd be upset.
 
I'm a long-time Longhorn season ticket holder and a huge Vince Young fan. He is truly the greatest college football player out there this year.

That said, I don't think he'd be the smart draft choice for the Texans. There is a talented QB on staff already, that really hasn't been given a chance to perform with some solid protection. There's no real guarantee that Vince turns into an all-pro QB either.

He has freakish physical skills, can throw the ball, and is one of the greatest leaders that's been seen in college football. I'm not sure that'll translate into a championship caliber QB in the NFL.

I also do not think the number one pick would be well spent on Reggie Bush. He is a 15 carry per game back. He cannot/does not carry the ball inside. He is a game changer on the edge, but he tends to disappear for several games througout the year. Quite simply, I don't think we can risk a number one on a back who has a propensity to disappear in games, cannot/does not run inside, and will need to be complemented by another back anyway. That's not a number one pick.

My take is that we would be best served to trade the pick. Draft Lendale White, and add OL and defensive help with the extra picks.

With three or four starters (at the right spots) out of this coming draft, this is a playoff team in two years.

Go Texans and Hook 'em
 
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