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I watched the game again last night and was surprised

bckey said:
I watched the game again today on my dvr also. You're right. With the emotions stripped away I was able to see things different too.

The offensive line wasn't as bad as I thought. One sack came on a stunt between Wade and Wiegert but the rest were on the outside. Greer got one on the inside of Wade but that was because Wade was locked up with someone else. Actually he was back with Carr because his man was so fast around the edge. Other than that it was the backs that couldn't block that led to sacks.

The defensive line did play a good game other than penalties. GFunk could be back. Maybe TJ being here is a motivating factor.

I didn't see the ILB's much because I was paying more attention to the DL so I won't comment on them. I don't want to rewatch the game again to see their play

OLB's did pretty good from what I could tell and did get some pressure on Losman but he proved to be pretty elusive and also got rid of the ball to avoid sacks.

DRob is awesome. Nuff said. PBuc played soft in the first half but did a little better in the 2nd half. Tackled better than advertised.

CCBrown was good against the run and around the ball alot. I didn't see him good enough in coverage to comment.

M Robinson is no worry. We know what we have there.

Carr wasn't as bad as I thought either so I dis agree with you on this one. Some of the balls were on the money. Bradford had one perfectly thrown to him that he should have caught even with the coverage. It would have moved us at least in field goal range and given us a first down. Same with Gaffney not turning around. We are desperately hurting for someone to emerge as an legit #2 receiver. The ball to AJ in triple coverage was not very smart but at that point the Texans were beginning to get desperate to make something happen and Carr tried to force it in to AJ. I'm not ready to see Carr benched yet.

Game changing plays.

Peek not intercepting and taking it to the house along with Bradford not catching the pass to him in the 3rd quarter. These 2 plays would have made the score either 19-17 or 21-19 and put us right in the thick of things.

Penalties that gave the Bills first downs and extended their drives especially the roughing the passer call on Simmons.

The ball that was stripped from Carr before his arm went forward. It was the result of another effortless block.

I won't comment on the coaching staff because most alredy know how I feel about Capers/Palmer/Fangio and it hasn't changed. I don't think anyone will lose their job this year unless wehave 7 wins or less with the exception of Palmer. If we look bad against Pittsburgh and don't have much production from our offense he could be gone during the bye week and replaced with Pendry.
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And you forgot about another crucial 3rd down, when DC threw 80 on a slant and he dropped it. No one is superman. They all had dropped balls that hit their hands at the same time with being smashed. Now u tell me the difference!!!! If there is any.
 
texans coach said:
That wasnt a drop! Even Troy Vincent said he looked at him(Bradford) the whole play and when the ball was there, vincent was there also. How is that a drop, when the safety beats the ball? I can tell u never played the game.
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Wrong play there Capers. On Vincent 1st interception he said he had is eye keyed on Andre to make sure he didn't break up field, Carr's options at that point were limited because he was outside the pocket. On Bradfords, it was clear as day that Bradford had it in his hands and really did nothing to help himself get the ball.
 
i wish i had as big a tv as some of you guys, cause on my tv i dont get to see the wr's running their routes that often. i would like to be able to see the wr's because i think that is the key to how well car is doing. we already know carr doesnt have a long time to get rid of the ball so the next question is, does he have anyone to throw it to? if the answer is yes then we need to start pointing the finger at carr. if the answer is no then we need to leave him alone an address the other positions(you cant expect a quarterback to do much with no time and one open)
 
markbeth said:
i wish i had as big a tv as some of you guys, cause on my tv i dont get to see the wr's running their routes that often. i would like to be able to see the wr's because i think that is the key to how well car is doing. we already know carr doesnt have a long time to get rid of the ball so the next question is, does he have anyone to throw it to? if the answer is yes then we need to start pointing the finger at carr. if the answer is no then we need to leave him alone an address the other positions(you cant expect a quarterback to do much with no time and one open)
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Trust me, it's a team effort, Carr is bearing more than his share of the blame however.
 
Plain and simple Carr must shoulder much of the blame on offense. Missed reads, not looking off defenders, a 3 step drop and still holding the ball too long...
The other part of the collapse on offense - COACHING. How many times do we have to see a rolling pocket work only to abandon it. Hey if the O line is not going to protect or support a pocket passer then we must adjust to Carr's strengths...operating on the run.
 
Of course Vincent is going to talk trash, he got 2 picks. And right after that in the same column:

The most glaring problem isn't Carr. It's what's going on around him. There still isn't a legitimate second receiver on the roster to complement Johnson, who certainly will face double coverage all season. There also isn't a tight end that could be considered a reliable receiver. So when you talk about the weapons Carr has at his disposal, it basically amounts to two people -- Johnson and running back Domanick Davis. That isn't going to get it done. Moreover, Carr still isn't getting enough pass protection. After all the talk about using more three- and five-step drops and timing routes to help keep Carr upright -- he had been sacked 140 times in his first three NFL seasons -- Houston still had no answers for Buffalo's pass rush.


Nice try Toro.
 
SESupergenius said:
Of course Vincent is going to talk trash, he got 2 picks. And right after that in the same column:

The most glaring problem isn't Carr. It's what's going on around him. There still isn't a legitimate second receiver on the roster to complement Johnson, who certainly will face double coverage all season. There also isn't a tight end that could be considered a reliable receiver. So when you talk about the weapons Carr has at his disposal, it basically amounts to two people -- Johnson and running back Domanick Davis. That isn't going to get it done. Moreover, Carr still isn't getting enough pass protection. After all the talk about using more three- and five-step drops and timing routes to help keep Carr upright -- he had been sacked 140 times in his first three NFL seasons -- Houston still had no answers for Buffalo's pass rush.


Nice try Toro.
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No, not a nice try. There is a difference between someone giving their observation that actually played in the game, Vincent, and a reporter who does not cover the Texans on a regular basis.

Large difference.
 
And Vincent can say that for every game they play this year, they are not the Patriots where they hide much of the packages. They just have a great defense with great players.
 
The biggest problem with Carr to me is that he looked like a beat up QB. You can't let the other team see that you've been beat. If you look at Farve and Brady.. when they get sacked, throw an INT, over throw or miss a WR, they can't wait to get back in there.. they have the looks that said I'm not down yet...Carr just sets there and puts his hands on head. He should've at Least went straight to the phone instead of waiting for the equipment guy to call him to it.
 
bckey said:
I watched the game again today on my dvr also. You're right. With the emotions stripped away I was able to see things different too.

The offensive line wasn't as bad as I thought. One sack came on a stunt between Wade and Wiegert but the rest were on the outside. Greer got one on the inside of Wade but that was because Wade was locked up with someone else. Actually he was back with Carr because his man was so fast around the edge. Other than that it was the backs that couldn't block that led to sacks.

The defensive line did play a good game other than penalties. GFunk could be back. Maybe TJ being here is a motivating factor.

I didn't see the ILB's much because I was paying more attention to the DL so I won't comment on them. I don't want to rewatch the game again to see their play

OLB's did pretty good from what I could tell and did get some pressure on Losman but he proved to be pretty elusive and also got rid of the ball to avoid sacks.

DRob is awesome. Nuff said. PBuc played soft in the first half but did a little better in the 2nd half. Tackled better than advertised.

CCBrown was good against the run and around the ball alot. I didn't see him good enough in coverage to comment.

M Robinson is no worry. We know what we have there.

Carr wasn't as bad as I thought either so I dis agree with you on this one. Some of the balls were on the money. Bradford had one perfectly thrown to him that he should have caught even with the coverage. It would have moved us at least in field goal range and given us a first down. Same with Gaffney not turning around. We are desperately hurting for someone to emerge as an legit #2 receiver. The ball to AJ in triple coverage was not very smart but at that point the Texans were beginning to get desperate to make something happen and Carr tried to force it in to AJ. I'm not ready to see Carr benched yet.

Game changing plays.

Peek not intercepting and taking it to the house along with Bradford not catching the pass to him in the 3rd quarter. These 2 plays would have made the score either 19-17 or 21-19 and put us right in the thick of things.

Penalties that gave the Bills first downs and extended their drives especially the roughing the passer call on Simmons.

The ball that was stripped from Carr before his arm went forward. It was the result of another effortless block.

I won't comment on the coaching staff because most alredy know how I feel about Capers/Palmer/Fangio and it hasn't changed. I don't think anyone will lose their job this year unless wehave 7 wins or less with the exception of Palmer. If we look bad against Pittsburgh and don't have much production from our offense he could be gone during the bye week and replaced with Pendry.
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I think most of you are wrong on the pick to AJ in the endzone. First off, it was on a play-action pass, that is supposed to at least force the safties to hesitate, AJ had beaten both Milloy and Clements, but becasue we had not been able to run the ball, there was no need to hesitate on Vincents part. That exact same throw on a 3rd and short and its 6 points....
 
right and we didn't go deep a lot and it was a great opportunity to catch them off guard. The play action pass worked few times so I had no problem with that call. People complain when we don't go deep and complain when we do.
 
I wish when they show the games on TV they would show it from behind. They do it in MNF and it's neat to see the play develop from the QB perspective. Often times we don't get to see what's happening in the secondary. What happens then is that when we play as bad as we did on Sunday all the blame will go on the o-line. I know the o-line was just horrible but I think Carr does stare at his receivers and that's not good thing. I think if we were able to see some of the stuff that was happening in the secondary it would become more clear who really is to blame. But for this particular game against the Bills we just stunk it up everywhere.
 
SESupergenius said:
right and we didn't go deep a lot and it was a great opportunity to catch them off guard. The play action pass worked few times so I had no problem with that call. People complain when we don't go deep and complain when we do.
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Agree, but David underthrew the ball and did not see Vincent. Admitted dig there. :)

I still want to see the ball go deep more often.
 
I thought that ball was right there, maybe a tad under, but still farther than the 2 trailing defenders. Vincent just made a great take on the ball. It's hard to throw to Andre long when there is cover 2 and guys are looking for Andre, like Vincent said. You have this funny way of making me agree to disagree with you but see your point. You'd make a great bar buddy.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Not quite sure how we can pin the goof on Gaffney as I did not hear the play call. How do we not know it was not Carr's fault. The play could have called for a throw 10 more yards down the field.

After watching the game, Carr was not on target the whole day. I am more likely to believe his decision making an accuracy were much more culpabale than Gaffney's play.
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You cant blame carr he hit bradford in the hands and dont get me started on the gaffney play
 
Kaiser Toro said:
At the leaves us with Carr and man was it worse than even I thought it could be. I started out counting how many seconds he had when he dropped back to pass. I conted around on average of 3 seconds, which I think is fair amount of time to go through a couple of reads and step into the pocket for your other progressions. What is happening is that David drops back and is locked on a receiver and one of three things happen - 1) he throws and it ain't pretty; 2) he takes off and runs; 3) he takes off an tries to create something. Only taking off and run is the good thing. The point here is that the guy has happy feet, plain and simple. If he would just step up into the pocket (and yes OLINE haters there were planty of pockets) and get anohter look, this may solve our problems.
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when did you start to count. If you started counting on the snap then I dont think that three seconds is long enough.
 
Those of you who have rewatched the game - can you tell me how many times Gaffney was thrown to? He had the one that everyone talks about. Did he have any other chances?

Several have mentioned that Carr locks on his target. The problem is that his target is AJ.

AJ needs to be used as a decoy with Gaffney or the TE as the primary target. When Mathis returns, he needs to take Bradfords place and thrown to often - even if he drops the ball occassionally.
 
I personally couldn't stand to watch the game again and maybe or maybe not the OL had a good game..I would say I think the whole offense stunk up the field. OL included. All I can say is something is wrong and been wrong for 4 seasons.. It is either the OL doesn't block on a play or the WR's don't know how to get open or Carr doesn't go through the progressions fast enough (or it is AJ to DD progression)

I think what bugs me the most is the "hype" of the triplets that the networks talk about of DD,Carr, and AJ.. and talented ? yes they are so .. if the OL is playing well what does that say about everything else?
 
Number19 said:
Those of you who have rewatched the game - can you tell me how many times Gaffney was thrown to? He had the one that everyone talks about. Did he have any other chances?

Several have mentioned that Carr locks on his target. The problem is that his target is AJ.

AJ needs to be used as a decoy with Gaffney or the TE as the primary target. When Mathis returns, he needs to take Bradfords place and thrown to often - even if he drops the ball occassionally.
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I do not know, but to give a liberal guess - twice
 
We needed to show a lot more formations than the 2 rec 2 te formation we showed. Even though you give the offensive line credit, I still believe we are very prone to the delay blitz as our lineman seem to separate as the play begins and instead of forming a pocket they form like a stonhenge looking formation. Too many times i saw the tackles on an island witha good 3 ft or more between them and the guards. Also too many times i saw our interior lineman give up real estate and get pushed back in on Carr. While that may not be a sack it sure can make a QB very nervous. I think DC after the initial drive was unnerved and did not feel safe so he started to just try and unload the ball.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
Firstly, The offensive line played very well on Sunday. I counted one sack allowed. The rest were Davis's, Murphy's and a receiver's (was out of the picture on the edge) fault. Run blocking good, pass blocking good. Bravo to the O Line.
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I'm glad the team looks better than miserable when the game is watched after the heat of the moment. However, "very well" seems a little of an overstatement, as well as saying our run blocking was good.

Davis: 14 carries/48 yards
Johnson: 2 carries/7 yards

Looks like a lot of room for improvement.


Remember, Dre was embarrassed, Riley admitted to confusion and miscommunication on the line, and the offense just didn't produce. If the O-line played very well, we may have to say they were "spectacular" when we run for 90 yards and only give up 3 sacks and 10 hurries.
 
I don't have to re-watch anything to know that the offense sucked on Sunday. 25 yards passing is good for a drive but not for a game.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
To add to my long post here are the significant plays:

1st Half:
Davis missed block and a hold.
Receiver missed block, sack
Payne offsides
Payne defensive holding
Carr Rollout, horrible pass to AJ on a 15 yard out
Delay of the game on the Texans at the Bills 5

2nd Half:
David hold
Peek missed interception
Davis missed block, sack
Murphy missed block, sack
Carr interception by Vincent. Carr did not see Vincent at all.
Roughing the passer, on Simmons?
Murphy missed block
Carr runs but does not get first
Takeo causes fumble, Carr no vision and if he made one step up into pocket avoids Takeo.
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On of those missed blocks by a TE was Bruener, Not Murphy. But either way they were avoidable. The flip side however is that it looked on both occasions like the TE's released their man expecting Carr to dump to them when they did, but he never saw them. I'm a Carr fan and have been since the begining, but the kid gloves have to come off this season. He needs to read the defense better and scan his options quicker. I'm hopeful this week he'll be in more of a rythem with the home crowd backing him.
 
Number19 said:
Those of you who have rewatched the game - can you tell me how many times Gaffney was thrown to? He had the one that everyone talks about. Did he have any other chances?

Several have mentioned that Carr locks on his target. The problem is that his target is AJ.

AJ needs to be used as a decoy with Gaffney or the TE as the primary target. When Mathis returns, he needs to take Bradfords place and thrown to often - even if he drops the ball occassionally.
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The pass that hit him was the only one that came his way. I agree with your post 100%. you want to free up AJ, throw the ball to someone else and force the D to play man Coverage or Zone rather than double AJ all day long.

Honestly, I think that damn ball hit Gaffney because he had no faith whatsoever that the ball would be coming his way this game. At least not at that point.
 
William.carter said:
The pass that hit him was the only one that came his way. I agree with your post 100%. you want to free up AJ, throw the ball to someone else and force the D to play man Coverage or Zone rather than double AJ all day long.

Honestly, I think that damn ball hit Gaffney because he had no faith whatsoever that the ball would be coming his way this game. At least not at that point.
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The number 1 way to not have the ball thrown to you is to do what he did. I understand thst you need to take pressure off of AJ, but if Gaff isnt even gonna LOOK for the ball why throw to him?
 
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