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"I want 'Texans' on my chest" ~ Vince Young
- Thread starter Tale Gator
- Start date
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Carr Bomb said:
I just don't get some of you people's reasoning. No matter the situation they still had to come in as young players and play and succeed. When people make excuses for players on this board they say it is because they had to get up to speed after college..then people turn around and say that these guys just lucked into situations. If this was how the NFL worked then Ryan Leaf and many others with talent would have been dropped, eventually, on a talent laden team and won. It isn't the luck. It is the player. Roeth and Brady have something that others don't..poise and leaderships ability. Confidence in their game. When Brady stepped in that 3rd game of the year Bledsoe had been getting pounded. How come it didn't affect him and where did he learn how to be so good in the pocket?Excuses go both ways and you can't have it both ways. These guys are good and there are analysts praising them daily because they have an ability that most guys that are QBs in the league lack.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Hulk75 said:
Just like posters that tell people to leave the board and say a man is immature because he dances.
Some people need to step off the ledge and take a break. Wanting Bush or VY or Leinart or trading down really isn't so bad that you have to get so personal. I want Bush but can see why people love VY or Williams or Hawk...not Carr
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Wolf said:
Correct. Good post. When you are a rookie or a 2nd year guy that confidence isn't automatic in most and no matter the team you still have to step in and play. It reminds me of the days when people used to say Aikman was overrated because he was surrounded by talent. Well he took a massive pounding his rookie year and I still saw a guy threading passes to guys. You can have as much talent as necessary but you still have to check down, call audibles, move and be comfortible in the pocket and be able to put the ball on the money and to the right people. Maybe the QB makes those guys better. I just am not going to take away things from guys who are naturals.
HoustonFan
Veteran
Damn, Vince.
Can't even be mad at that. The guy wants to play for the team reppin' his city. That's awesome to me. I'm inching over to the VY band wagon all of a sudden. However, the team still needs other personnel to help improve this team and ultimately make it a playoff calibur and championship team.
And as much as I like the Cowboys - really hoping that those talks b/w Jerry Jones and Tom Benson fail - I hope he doesn't end up in Dallas. That would hurt more than VY ending up in Tennessee.
Can't even be mad at that. The guy wants to play for the team reppin' his city. That's awesome to me. I'm inching over to the VY band wagon all of a sudden. However, the team still needs other personnel to help improve this team and ultimately make it a playoff calibur and championship team.
And as much as I like the Cowboys - really hoping that those talks b/w Jerry Jones and Tom Benson fail - I hope he doesn't end up in Dallas. That would hurt more than VY ending up in Tennessee.
Tale Gator
________
Vinny said:
No propaganda, no spin in this thread.
Just discussing a kid who's showing some love and wanting to play for his hometown.
This is the most outspoken Vince has been about being a part of our team -- certainly deserves some solid discussion from both side of the fence.
JDizzle
I'm a dude
I really like that about Vince. He's not a typical, recycled interview kind of person, which is something we could really use here. When you hear kids interviewing, or heck, even professional players (save for the occasional loudmouth) it all sounds like recycled professional sports jargon to me. A personality like Vince Young becoming a face for our franchise would be a good thing IMO.
Decisions, decisions ....
Decisions, decisions ....
Cheap_Sunglasses
Practice Squad
Hulk75 said:
So why don't you leave us alone? We might not know football (according to you), but at least our town can get an NFL franchise, unlike So Cal.
I think you're nothing more than a bitter USC fan who is pissed off that your beloved Reggie Bush might not go #1 in the draft. If you're not, why all the VY bashing? It's even in your sig!
TreWardTxn
Waterboy
Hulk75 said:
This simply isn't true. Quarterbacks get lambasted all the time when they (and therefore the team) fail to bring in wins for the franchise. Just recently, Tim Couch was receiving death threats by the time he was run out of town and Joey Harrington is going through it right now. When a team does not win, the first player to be attacked is usually the QB. Dilfer was ousted by Billick after he was the QB of a Superbowl winning team. QBs (usually) get all the credit and they (almost always) get all the blame for offensive bumblings.
And I will say this; I don't profess to know a lot about David Carr, but one thing I do distinctly remember is reading an SI article on him while still at Fresno State and the article tried to drive home two points; one, that Carr was a loyal person, as he grew up next to Fresno St. and good as he was, still went there to play in college, and two, that he was a God-fearing family man. I do feel that the Texans org (McNair) let the latter quality factor greatly into selecting Carr, and in (likely) retaining him as well. Having a wife and family at a young age does not translate as well into football success, as having the gift of charisma, and being able to inspire teammates to play their best. Because Carr is so loyal and a (seemingly) genuine person, it might be tough for McNair to cut him loose, effectually giving up on him.
Bronco Texan
Waterboy
All you Vince Young homers are getting more and more pathetic each and every day! I can't believe you are really going to hold this statement against Bush. It is nice the Young holds his home town so close to his heart, but it isn't like every player in the Texans locker room really wanted to play for the Texans. Truth is deep down every football player just is grateful to be on an NFL team. It isn't like Bush is saying "Well I really don't want to play for the Texans, but since they have the first pick what the hell." The guy is saying no matter what team he is pumped to not only be the first pick but to be playing for an NFL team. You really can't hold that against him, especially since that is how almost every other NFL player views their situation. Wether it be the Texans or the Steelers every NFL player is glad to be in the league. I wonder what the threads will look like on Draft day when the first pick is called out and it wont be Houston wasting it on VY. Yes I said wasting, because that is what it is called when you use the first overall pick on the second rated QB(3rd rated player) in the draft. Just let it go. VY is talented and at least you will get to see him play in Houston every year when the Titans come into town.
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
Bronco Texan said:
Couple of points here on your radundant post:
I'm sick and tired of the hating that goes on from the people who despise VY lovers just because he's from here. Majority of us think he's the BPA. Problem is we'll never know until 2-3 years pass but I'm sure it'll still be a hot topic of debate on these MB's for the next 10 years. Especially if we don't take him and he and Bud get to hoist a Lombardi Trophy or 3 while we still tinker with Carrs' football senses and watch Bush run all over the place between the 20's.
And to your 3rd rated QB crap. Ben R-Berger was the 3rd rated QB but that seemed to have worked pretty good for him. Draft boards are usually off a bit any ways.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
No message
We'll never know which of any of the players in this years draft is the BPA........ Never. Especially not these two, since one is a QB, and the other is a RB........ one will go to the worst team in the league, and the other will go to the second worse.... Neither team needs a QB, neither team needs a RB. Neither team needs recievers either. They both suffer in the same area, OLine, and Defensive Pressure. I'm sorry, I'm getting off on another subject......
Point is, they are going to different teams, and will be doing different teams. If Bush Goes to N.O., I think he'll have a better carreer, than if he came to Houston. That team to me, is more StLois Rams, than Houston...... speed Stallworth, a solid #2 WR, Horn, who has better than avg speed, and is physically small, but is probably the best possesion reciever in the league right now. Both block well for the running back, who is pretty stout, and pounds the ball...... then 8 games out of the year, they will be playing on turf.. They've got a young offensive minded creative coach.... and a QB with a cannon(not much between the ears, but if ever a QB needed coaching....) In N.O., I think he will get the opportunity, to continue doing what he did in College..... share carries, recieve out of the backfield, and be a slot or 4th reciever....
By that Token, Vince would also have a much better Carreer, if he played in N.O. they play out of the shotgun 80%-90% of the time already. He'll be able to start from day one. N.O.s depth at RB isn't as deep as ours though, so he'll be in trouble if Duece goes down, and he becomes the only real rushing threat on that team. But again, I like our recievers better, but in N.O., you have a definitve #2 threat, who has good hands, and makes plays when he needs to, and we've got to find out who our #2 is. Or at least he has to prove that he is a #2, by catching the ball. Both Horn & Dante can get down the field in a hurry, and they've had good production from their tightend, in the passing game.
But, back to my point..... they'll go to completely different situations. Their contributions to their respective teams are going to be different. Either of them can get hurt early in their carreer, and never get a chance to do anything, so we'll never know which is the BPA.
Point is, they are going to different teams, and will be doing different teams. If Bush Goes to N.O., I think he'll have a better carreer, than if he came to Houston. That team to me, is more StLois Rams, than Houston...... speed Stallworth, a solid #2 WR, Horn, who has better than avg speed, and is physically small, but is probably the best possesion reciever in the league right now. Both block well for the running back, who is pretty stout, and pounds the ball...... then 8 games out of the year, they will be playing on turf.. They've got a young offensive minded creative coach.... and a QB with a cannon(not much between the ears, but if ever a QB needed coaching....) In N.O., I think he will get the opportunity, to continue doing what he did in College..... share carries, recieve out of the backfield, and be a slot or 4th reciever....
By that Token, Vince would also have a much better Carreer, if he played in N.O. they play out of the shotgun 80%-90% of the time already. He'll be able to start from day one. N.O.s depth at RB isn't as deep as ours though, so he'll be in trouble if Duece goes down, and he becomes the only real rushing threat on that team. But again, I like our recievers better, but in N.O., you have a definitve #2 threat, who has good hands, and makes plays when he needs to, and we've got to find out who our #2 is. Or at least he has to prove that he is a #2, by catching the ball. Both Horn & Dante can get down the field in a hurry, and they've had good production from their tightend, in the passing game.
But, back to my point..... they'll go to completely different situations. Their contributions to their respective teams are going to be different. Either of them can get hurt early in their carreer, and never get a chance to do anything, so we'll never know which is the BPA.
TreWardTxn
Waterboy
Wolf said:
Wait a minute...if Carr (that is who you are talking about?) is lacking confidence in himself and his teammates, that is certainly an indictment of him, because the QB always has to believe that the guys around him can make plays or there is no hope from the start. The only way you do that is to work and sweat with those guys to the point where there is no doubt in your mind that they can perform to the highest of levels and do anything you expect of them. This is not to say that it still can't come crashing down around you, but if a guy doesn't believe in the 5 or 7 of the players around him, it will be quite awhile before the org. can replace those guys, and then due to cap issues, replace them with quality talent; if that's the route they choose to go...
CarrIsFine
Noob
Sounds like we might be able to get Bush and Young. Think about it, VY loves Houston and dearly wants to play for the Texans. He is a charitable guy and wants to make amends for not bringing the Heisman to Texas. Houston needs VY and VY needs Houston.
Draft Bush first and pay him a ton of money. Just tell VY all of his dreams can come true by refusing to sign with any other team (see E. Manning) and pay him a salary = to the average QB in the league. Since it is not about the money, but about Houston, VY would jump at this opportunity and everyone would win. As a bonus, he could use his superpowers to fight crime in his off time. This is a no-brainer.
Draft Bush first and pay him a ton of money. Just tell VY all of his dreams can come true by refusing to sign with any other team (see E. Manning) and pay him a salary = to the average QB in the league. Since it is not about the money, but about Houston, VY would jump at this opportunity and everyone would win. As a bonus, he could use his superpowers to fight crime in his off time. This is a no-brainer.
TreWardTxn
Waterboy
CarrIsFine said:
Funny, but anybody who would knock Vince for simply saying it is his dreams to play for his hometown team needs to reevaluate some things. Elway refused to go to the team that drafted him and Eli and family engineered him an exit from San Diego, and they are both reverred by fans, Elway to legendary proportions. Talk to your people at Nike and get Vince a (guaranteed) $125M shoe contract or somethin before even steppin on the field, that might make his decision a bit easier...
CarrIsFine
Noob
I'm not knocking VY, that is great that he wants to play for his hometown, who wouldn't? I was just poking fun at some of the posts on this thread.TreWardTxn said:
cadahnic
Rookie
Elway and Eli are not revered by fans. Actually if you talk to people from Colorado, it took them a long time to accept Elway's bravado and abrasiveness. Eli is not overly liked in NY. They see the potential, but they feel for all the stink he raised he needs to be doing more. Elway eventually came to be a beloved member of the NFL and Eli may also but 2yrs in the league he is not close yet.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Kaiser Toro said:
Or phrased another way, the hyperbolic projections of VY's NFL (already in the hall of fame) career or the ridiculous exaggeration of problems with David Carr's game (note the statement people--exaggeration, not a denial that he has problems--an assertion that some overstate them). But ideological extremists is a fair description.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
infantrycak said:or the ridiculous exaggeration of problems with David Carr's game (note the statement people--exaggeration, not a denial that he has problems--an assertion that some overstate them)QUOTE]
Now who would be doing that?
Here, Kaiser says "I don't know what is worse, the free ride given to Carr, or the flat out denial of Vince's Talent. I don't want Carr, and I don't want Vince, but the Carr supporters remind me of the liberal's who don't understand they keep loosing because of their politics, and not in spite of them.
Here, infantrycak says........... "or the way I understand what you are saying..... the unrealistic expectations of Vince Young in the NFL vs Carr never had a fair chance(entitlement excuse). Ideological extremes for sure."infantrycak said:
My reading comprehension may be a little off, but I don't think you understand what Kaiser is saying, as your post puts you firmly in the group of people Kaiser finds ridicule with.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
thunderkyss said:
Yeah, you are a little off, because I was pointing out the other extreme for Carr-haters/Vince Young-lovers to add to his ideological extremists.
infantrycak said:
Ok, I see...... my fault. It's just when I see
I assume that you're saying the same thing but in a different way, and not pointing out the extreme opposite position.
But you are in fact saying the other extreme.... Vince is God... David is a bust.. arguments are just as tiring as the Vince will bust.... David never had a fair chance... arguments.
thanks for clearing that up.
inVINCEable Texan
Practice Squad
Dear Santa,
All I want for X-mas this year is a Vince Young Texan Jersey!!
Thanx!
All I want for X-mas this year is a Vince Young Texan Jersey!!
Thanx!
travfrancis
Waterboy
no kidding, my bday is in march and im going to hold off on the presents until i see if vince is drafted by us or not, if so an authentic vince young texans jersey is in my future.
TreWardTxn
Waterboy
Bronco Texan said:
The thing about the draft is that for the top 2-3 guys in it, perhaps for the only time in their upcoming careers, they are not like "every other player", during those few days, they are the object every bad team in the league wants to get their hands on, and yes, going #1 has a lot to do with money and prestige, but don't think guys have no preference in where they would like to go. There are lots of concerns, warm weather v. cold weather, small market vs. big market ($$), close to family v. far from family. If I were an incoming pick I would rather chat up the Texans than Saints, so I can have a home, rather be in the big city of Houston, rather than be in country Tennessee, and if I were from California, I'd much prefer the weather here then in NY...
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
Cuz they'll be sold out for at least a yearHulk75 said:<<<<<waiting for a Young Texans jersey...........
DRAMA
Rookie
Tulexan - I need some Bush energy from you...I'm starting to waver back and forth between VY and Bush....
When VY said he WANTS that Texans across his chest, I won't lie - that did something for me. I still think Bush is the better pick of the two...but as Captain Kirk would say...
Can't........................breathe..........................need........................to make...............a....................................decision......................Spockkk!
When VY said he WANTS that Texans across his chest, I won't lie - that did something for me. I still think Bush is the better pick of the two...but as Captain Kirk would say...
Can't........................breathe..........................need........................to make...............a....................................decision......................Spockkk!
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Of course they wouldn't be this enamored with him if he didn't go to Texas. That is the reason why we are having the Vince v. Reggie debate, and not the Vince v. Reggie v. Matt v. Jay debate. If QB was truly a desperate need of the Texans, then we would be having the debate of which QB helps us the most. But it is not, so we are not having that debate.
And for all of the people who are going to equate Reggie into that argument, don't bother. Reggie is clearly head and toes above the rest in the RB class and is even in the upper echelon of the WR group. If Vince was clearly the best, then you could make that argument, but he is not clearly the best. Some would argue that he isn't even clearly the 2nd best.
And for all of the people who are going to equate Reggie into that argument, don't bother. Reggie is clearly head and toes above the rest in the RB class and is even in the upper echelon of the WR group. If Vince was clearly the best, then you could make that argument, but he is not clearly the best. Some would argue that he isn't even clearly the 2nd best.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
tulexan said:
This is the most telling part of the draft debate. No one has uttered a peep about former Rose Bowl champ and Heisman winner Matt Leinart, a guy who is projected by a substantial majority of scouts, analysts, and NFL executives to be as good a quarterback, if not better - as well as more immediately NFL-ready - than Vince.
NO ONE HAS SAID A WORD ABOUT LEINART ON THIS BOARD. Or any other QB (Cutler, etc.) for that matter.
For the slow witted amongst us, I will tell you why. It is because this is not about drafting a quarterback so much as it is finding a scapegoat (David Carr) and matching that perceived problem with a guy whom the UT fans and hometown guys really, really, desperately want to play for us.
It is fine to like Vince and fine to want to see him play for the Texans. I guess it just amazes me the lengths to which the Vince bandwagon will go to try to make a case for the guy. And yes, of course, I am a David Carr homer myself, so commence with ignoring the logical substance of what I have just said and keep firing away.
Edit: And of course, I should qualify that with "most of" the Vince bandwagon. There are several posters who want Vince and can make an articulate, even compelling case, for drafting him. They are the substantial minority, however, amongst a majority of "VINCE OR BUST CAUSE THIS CARR SUCKS!!!" type B.S.
AustinJB
Rookie
tulexan said:
I am so sick of people speaking in absolutes. If you think that Bush is "clearly head and toes above the rest in the RB class," that is fine. I don't. I think he will be a good back in the NFL, but I think that Lendale White and DeAngelo Williams are just as good. Bush gets so much publicity b/c of his explosiveness (as does VY,) but that doesn't mean that he'll be that explosive against NFL defenses. If you put D.Williams on the USC team and give him the ball when Bush got the ball, I have to think the results would be close to the same (of course this is my opinion and pure speculation.)
And I do think that VY is the best QB in this draft. I've never really been impressed w/ Leinart. I've seen Leinart make just as many bad passes, if not more, than VY. VY gets a bad rep just b/c of his side-arm motion and the fact that he has better wheels than Leinart.
The top five PASS DEFENSES that Leinart faced (not counting the Rose Bowl) are ranked like this: 31st, 45th, 68th, 72nd, and 77th.
VY's are ranked as: 15th, 23rd, 43rd, 53rd, and 56th.
Against TOTAL DEFENSE rank, it goes like this.....
Leinart: 34th, 38th, 44th, 46th, and 75th
VY: 5th, 11th, 13th, 30th, and 41st
Based upon their numbers and the level of competition they faced, I think VY is better. If you don't, that is fine, but I have the stats to back up my belief.
