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I smell a Peek or Babin Trade!

G

[[Gary Kubiak]]

Guest
I just feel that this will happen one way or another. Two guys who were drafted to fit a 3-4 specifically. They can't be LBs cause they can't cover worth a lick on the 4-3.

More indications:

Weaver and Kalu
Peek getting a 1st round grade = inflating his value?

We could get a 2nd rounder for either guy.

:stirpot: :stirpot:
 
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
I just feel that this will happen one way or another. Two guys who were drafted to fit a 3-4 specifically. They can't be LBs cause they can't cover worth a lick on the 4-3.

More indications:

Weaver and Kalu
Peek getting a 1st round grade = inflating his value?

We could get a 2nd rounder for either guy.

:stirpot: :stirpot:
Click to expand...

Both guys were 4-3 DE's in college drafted by the old regime to play LB in the 3-4. I don't see them being traded without seeing what they can do at DE.
 
texan279 said:
Both guys were 4-3 DE's in college drafted by the old regime to play LB in the 3-4. I don't see them being traded without seeing what they can do at DE.
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True, but I don't think they were rated very high as 4-3 defensive ends - they were rated higher as tweeners. I'm wondering if one will remain at LB. We'll see what happens - I'm sure they'll get every chance to prove themselves.
 
Runner said:
True, but I don't think they were rated very high as 4-3 defensive ends - they were rated higher as tweeners. I'm wondering if one will remain at LB. We'll see what happens - I'm sure they'll get every chance to prove themselves.
Click to expand...

On Babin...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2004/draft/players/48367.html

Explosive pass-rushing prospect that's been a complete defender on the college level. Breaks down, plays with leverage and quickly gets off the snap. Fast off the edge, immediately alters his angle of attack and pursues from the backside with speed. Outstanding range and makes plays in every direction. Smart, locates the ball and known as a player that spends a lot of time studying film. Deceptively strong and puts up good numbers in the weight room. One of the fastest defensive ends at the Combine and turned in a great workout.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jason_babin

Outstanding pass rusher and two-time All-American who is one of the fastest down linemen in the game of football … The former high school state wrestling champion also excels on special teams, using his excellent leaping ability to block three punts during his career … The Defensive Hard Hat Award winner also saw time on offense the last two years, blocking in the Power-I formation … Started 25 of 47 games for the Broncos, recording 299 tackles (202 solos) with 38 sacks for minus-188 yards, 75 stops for losses of 283 yards, 43 quarterback pressures, eight forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries, two pass deflections and three receptions for 35 yards (11.7 avg) … His 38 sacks topped the old school career-record of 34 by Joel Smeenge (1986-89) and his 75 stops behind the line of scrimmage broke Smeenge's previous WMU record of 66. Has good body structure with a thick chest, broad shoulders and developing thighs and calves … Leader by example who needs to be accounted for by the opponent … Plays with pain, practices hard and has outstanding character off the field … Has good short-area quickness and acceleration, quickly locating the ball … Shows above-average lateral agility and good effort in his pursuit to the ball … Effective wrap-up tackler who stays low in his pads and drives hard with his legs to rock the ball carriers back … Very effective edge rusher who uses his hands well to grab and maintain position … Has good flexibility and knee bend to get down the line of scrimmage … Has the sudden burst to close on the quarterback and inside run plays.

http://www.nflfans.com/draft/2004/showplayer.php?key=Jason+Babin

He has been a dominant DE against the run and pass. He plays with intensity and enthusiasm & is a disruptive force. Jason has agility, good leverage, good run diagnostics, quick, finishes well, and a leader on the field. There is no doubt that he has had an extremely successful college career at DE. “Twice chosen MAC Defensive Player of the Year, Babin leads the nation in tackles for loss (2.75 per game) and ranks second in pass sacks (1.25 per game). The 6-4, 276-pound Babin also paces the MAC with 33 TFLs and 15 sacks and topped the Broncos in tackles (115). Babin is exploring his post-season options after having received invites from the East-West Shrine, Hula Maui and Senior bowl games.”
 
The reason I wouldn't think there would be a trade is that there is no value to the Texans in doing it. Their value isn't that high right now (except maybe Peek), so teams would underpay for them. The idea of trading someone appeals if others will overpay, not just give you scraps for them.

Besides, the other poster was right. They were brought in because they were athletic DEs (maybe a little undersized) who could be (supposedly) ideal OLB in a 3-4. That turned out to NOT be the case, at least in Babin's situation. But that doesn't mean he couldn't contribute in a 4-3. At least, if we give them a chance, they could play well enough to be worthwhile as trade bait.

But trading them now makes no real sense unless someone comes knocking with real value for them.
 
texan279 said:
On Babin...
Click to expand...

I get the point you are making, but you have to be fair. This is why so many people are surprised when highly touted draftees enter the pros and aren't instant pro-bowlers. They sounded perfect! Look at all the posts where people here are thinking 3rd and 4th rounders are instant starters - they aren't looking at both sides of the coin.


From the same sources:

NEGATIVES: Slow-shedding blocks or handled by ordinary lineman. Neutralized at the point in run defense.

Negatives: Timed speed is deceptive, as the player shed 20 pounds before his workout and generally plays in the 280-pound range … Not as explosive when he's at his playing weight … Shows strength against the run, but does not split the double team or neutralize blockers when engaging in head-up action … Weight-room strength does not translate to the football field (would rather elude than take on the blocker) … Uses his hands well, but is not a hit-and-shed type … Best pass rushing off the edge, as he would rather not take on and defeat the offensive tackle or tight end (tries to throw rather than use shed moves to disengage).

Cons: Has been playing weak schedules and may struggle against big time talent. He needs to add power to the lower body to hold up against the big boys. He also should improve his balance and brush up his overall techniques for the NFL.
 
Runner said:
I get the point you are making, but you have to be fair. This is why so many people are surprised when highly touted draftees enter the pros and aren't instant pro-bowlers. They sounded perfect! Look at all the posts where people here are thinking 3rd and 4th rounders are instant starters - they aren't looking at both sides of the coin.


From the same sources:

NEGATIVES: Slow-shedding blocks or handled by ordinary lineman. Neutralized at the point in run defense.

Negatives: Timed speed is deceptive, as the player shed 20 pounds before his workout and generally plays in the 280-pound range … Not as explosive when he's at his playing weight … Shows strength against the run, but does not split the double team or neutralize blockers when engaging in head-up action … Weight-room strength does not translate to the football field (would rather elude than take on the blocker) … Uses his hands well, but is not a hit-and-shed type … Best pass rushing off the edge, as he would rather not take on and defeat the offensive tackle or tight end (tries to throw rather than use shed moves to disengage).

Cons: Has been playing weak schedules and may struggle against big time talent. He needs to add power to the lower body to hold up against the big boys. He also should improve his balance and brush up his overall techniques for the NFL.
Click to expand...

All prospects have negatives, I was pointing out what was said about him as a DE since you said you didn't think babin or Peek were rated high as DE's, look at what I highlighted. And everything that was written about him that I posted was written abouty him playing DE in college.
 
texan279 said:
All prospects have negatives, I was pointing out what was said about him as a DE since you said you didn't think babin or Peek were rated high as DE's, look at what I highlighted. And everything that was written about him that I posted was written abouty him playing DE in college.
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Right - he was a DE in college. All I'm saying is that he was drafted higher to be a 3-4 OLB than he would have been as a 4-3 DE. Many of the negatives listed detracted more from him as a DE than as an OLB, for instance the speed/explosiveness vs weight item.
 
nunusguy said:
Will this be the epitaph for Babin's NFL career ?
Click to expand...

We can hope not. I think he is a better player than he's had the opportunity to show so far. I also wouldn't be surprised if we mixed in some 3-4 sets this season, so that might help.

If this year goes poorly for him he may eventually end up on another 3-4 team, and that may not be all bad for him. Players with 3-4 experience are harder to come by.
 
[[Gary Kubiak]] said:
I just feel that this will happen one way or another. Two guys who were drafted to fit a 3-4 specifically. They can't be LBs cause they can't cover worth a lick on the 4-3.

More indications:

Weaver and Kalu
Peek getting a 1st round grade = inflating his value?

We could get a 2nd rounder for either guy.

:stirpot: :stirpot:
Click to expand...

2nd rounder for Babin?

lmao!

now that is funny
 
I agree with the sentiment that it would be nice to trade them for something and start fresh - but we couldn't get a 3rd for both of them.

Plus, we need bodies and one of them might pan out. If not, we draft a RDE next year (and a CB since Buchy will be given another chance this year also).

Babin, in the Chronicle last weekend, said that the "dropping back" and coverage required by a LB had confused him and slowed him down (or words to that effect). Maybe (hopefully) restoring him to his old position where he does not have to think as much will let him develop.

My dream trade: Buchy, Wade and #65 for a high 2nd rounder.
 
Xman said:
My dream trade: Buchy, Wade and #65 for a high 2nd rounder.
Click to expand...

that would be great, but I dont think there is that big of sucker out there. apparently we were the only ones stupid enough to trade for P Buck and sign Wade to LT money.
 
Trenches said:
that would be great, but I dont think there is that big of sucker out there. apparently we were the only ones stupid enough to trade for P Buck and sign Wade to LT money.
Click to expand...

Maybe a running team could use Wade (or Miami would want him back).
Plus, we take the hit on the signing bonus, so whoever traded for him would get him at a much cheaper cap price than we are paying.
 
i'll give up a 3rd rounder in next year's draft at best for him. saban likes young talented players in the front 7, he'd be a great addition. not a starter, but depth is as important as your starters.
 
If we had a team considering trading for Babin we should be happy. That guy needs to worry less about exotic hunting....and more about trying to be an NFL player.
 
We had few bright spots on D last year. Babin was one of them, especially as pointed out, in the last three games.

Trading Babin right now, will hurt us more than help us......... Unless, you're looking at drafting Mario....
 
Yeah, now I think about it....giving Babin a chance at his natural position will prove more benficial than trading him for what little we would get for him as of right now. Not to mention....we only have one other DE (Weaver).
 
JAXwithanX said:
If we had a team considering trading for Babin we should be happy. That guy needs to worry less about exotic hunting....and more about trying to be an NFL player.
Click to expand...

Do you realize Babin injured his shoulder in the preseason last season and played through the injury until he was benched? In the last 3 games of the season Babin had 11 tackles, 4 assists, 4 sacks, and a forced fumble. He looked a lot better at the end of last season coming out of the 3 point stance instead of playing upright.
 
Yeah....i realized that.....thus the post right above yours. Now i don't think that Babin is going to be pulling of those last 3 game numbers all season next year....no way....but at least it was a hopeful glimpse of who he can be. I am not just going to forget about his production before then (even if you disregard the whole 05 season because of his shoulder injury....his rookie season sure wasn't much of anything to get stirred up about).
 
JAXwithanX said:
Yeah....i realized that.....thus the post right above yours. Now i don't think that Babin is going to be pulling of those last 3 game numbers all season next year....no way....but at least it was a hopeful glimpse of who he can be. I am not just going to forget about his production before then (even if you disregard the whole 05 season because of his shoulder injury....his rookie season sure wasn't much of anything to get stirred up about).
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His rookie season he had 63 tackles and 4 sacks, that's not bad at all for a 4-3 college DE playing OLB his rookie season in the NFL for Fangio's 3-4 defense. I still remember my first real impression of him in his first regular season game against San Diego when he made that open field tackle on LaDanian Tomlinson for a loss and had 5 other tackles in that game. I think if we put Babin at the 4-3 DE like he played in college with his hand on the ground and just let him attack he will succeed. Playing the OLB in the 3-4 for Fangio he had to make reads, drop into coverage, a lot of reading, thinking, and then reacting in general. I say stick him on the end and let him attack.
 
Babin is due, he will have a break out season. I don't see the Texans taking Mario Williams because of the Peek/Babin/Weaver/Kalu situation we got going for us, but then again I also remember saying W.T.F. and shooting the bird at the T.V. when the Bud called out The Houston Texans select Travis Johnson DT Florida State. That one blew my mind. Maybe he will produce this year? Shoot maybe he will get to play this year.
 
I think the real question is that not only did peek get the 1st round tender, he is going to be the starter. despite what many think, peek has value around the league and that was why he was given the high tender. if he is on the market he would have been picked up very quickly.
 
texan279 said:
His rookie season he had 63 tackles and 4 sacks, that's not bad at all for a 4-3 college DE playing OLB his rookie season in the NFL for Fangio's 3-4 defense. I still remember my first real impression of him in his first regular season game against San Diego when he made that open field tackle on LaDanian Tomlinson for a loss and had 5 other tackles in that game. I think if we put Babin at the 4-3 DE like he played in college with his hand on the ground and just let him attack he will succeed. Playing the OLB in the 3-4 for Fangio he had to make reads, drop into coverage, a lot of reading, thinking, and then reacting in general. I say stick him on the end and let him attack.
Click to expand...

I can see that scenario....I do think he has the chance to be a big part of our D when I remember we are switching to the 4-3 finally (thank god).
 
JAXwithanX said:
I can see that scenario....I do think he has the chance to be a big part of our D when I remember we are switching to the 4-3 finally (thank god).
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The problem is that in the 3-4 the OT didnt know if babin was coming or not. Now, if he is in, they will know he is rushing, and his speed is not that great nor is his spin move. I really dont see him doing much. Peek has speed and with TJ next to him one of them will get doubled and the other should be able to do some damage.
 
Cincinnatikid said:
The problem is that in the 3-4 the OT didnt know if babin was coming or not. Now, if he is in, they will know he is rushing, and his speed is not that great nor is his spin move. I really dont see him doing much. Peek has speed and with TJ next to him one of them will get doubled and the other should be able to do some damage.
Click to expand...

At this point I think its really just a toss up on how he will perform....does he still have the dominate DE qualities? Does he still have enough weight on him after switching to LB? I think we could be pleasantly surprised.....he has shown flashes of being a defensive leader....but flashes are flashes and i don't think anyone would be incredibly surprised if he proves to be not a lot more than average at this point. But i think he will prove to be more.
 
I think Babin can easily play at the size that would be "ideal" for a DE, but I am not sure how good his athleticism is, and I question whether or not he has enough good pass rushing moves and the fire/heart to ever be very successful.
 
Cincinnatikid said:
The problem is that in the 3-4 the OT didnt know if babin was coming or not. Now, if he is in, they will know he is rushing, and his speed is not that great nor is his spin move. I really dont see him doing much. Peek has speed and with TJ next to him one of them will get doubled and the other should be able to do some damage.
Click to expand...

Babin has the same speed as Peek, actually posted the same 40 time and he was 14 pounds heavier than Peek.

Babin's 40 time @ 260 pounds - 4.65
Peek's 40 time @ 246 pounds - 4.65

Babin's college stats - 296 tackles, 74 tackles for loss, 38 sacks
Peek's college stats - 201 tackles, 57 tackles for loss, and 27.5 sacks
 
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