I have a question for all Reggie lovers.

[TreWardTxn]

Umm, you might wanna go back and review the footage. You are complaining because the guy prefers to use his jets instead of pretending to be an Earl Campbell clone. Bush never had to consistently pick his way for 4-5 yard gains. He exhibited patient running but at his athletic level, against college competition, he was gonna get more than 5 yards. You wanna punish him for that? Yes, he ran behind a great line but not all those holes were gaping. You are certainly overstating the "on their backs" stuff there. The holes just look that way because Bush would blow through them so quickly. I've seen defenders (not on their backs by the way) just barely miss getting a hand on him, meaning that if he were any slower in his speed or reactions the D would have had time to get to him.

Sorry, but his play against Texas sold me on his ability to produce in the NFL. He faced a fast D that was geared up with all eyes on him and still produced. Of course he had to adjust his running to compensate for Texas' speed. If he doesn't make the boneheaded lateral attempt, we're probably singing a different story about that game and Vince is probably still in school. As someone else pointed out, Bush was effective before White did any damage. Hell, Bush's own teammates point out that White benefitted greatly from having Bush on the field as a decoy. One concern I did have from that game was how he seemed to respond to that lateral. Dude seemed to be moping quite a bit. I saw Leinart going over to pump him up. Maybe Bush is just that hard on himself and easily bounces back, but I didn't like seeing him mope, especially in contrast to the great leadership Young was displaying.

Bush is no guarantee; none of these players come with one. But, as with Vince, there is no need to raise questions due to his running style. As long as the coach that plays him accepts that Bush is not a pounder, the dude will be OK. He is not and never will be Earl Campbell. He will have to adjust to what NFL athletes can do, just as he had to adjust to the college level.

I'm not saying that you have to be Earl Campbell, but you have to be able to be physical, fall forward, and be on the field in short yardage. Yes, I exxagerated for effect, but the blocks were solid, lockdown. Considering what White did, I would expect more out of Bush, he's a better player, that's what I'm saying. In the NFL, 6 of your first 11 carries can not be for 3 yards or less (with 5 being for <2yds.), that simply won't be good enough. He did better catching the ball out of the backfield than taking handoffs; that's not the quality I look for in my primary back during the biggest game of his life.

As far as the " decoy" argument, USC had the most offensive weapons of any team last season, you couldn't completely key on any one guy (double team every play) 'cause they would eat you up just as much. Additionally, I didn't see Bush used as a decoy for White once in that game, so it's a moot point. They ran a fake reverse to him once for an incomplete WR pass, that's about it.

I'm not being "sold" on anything; I think Bush is a good running back (I mean that in the purest sense possible) in spite of his Texas performance, not because of it. Guess we just see it different...

 

[infantrycak]

I don't care how you slice it, but 6 of your first 11 carries being for 3 yards or less is ineffective running.

So how do you want to color it? I say Bush came out and capitalized on the demoralization of the fumble, but after that got bottled up.

So now it is the demoralization of the fumble? Sorry, I was confused by you not mentioning the fumble and saying White wore them down.

In any event, while I am a huge Emmitt Smith fan, your 1st statement above shows an incredible lack of perspective on RB's which is countered by--Barry Sanders. Dude took tons of plays for a loss and is still considered one of if not the best RB of all time by most people. I would certainly agree VY outplayed RB in the Rose Bowl, but going so far as to say 6.3 ypc with a TD and 95 receiving yds is "ineffective" just ain't facing reality.

 

[TreWardTxn]

So now it is the demoralization of the fumble? Sorry, I was confused by you not mentioning the fumble and saying White wore them down.

In any event, while I am a huge Emmitt Smith fan, your 1st statement above shows an incredible lack of perspective on RB's which is countered by--Barry Sanders. Dude took tons of plays for a loss and is still considered one of if not the best RB of all time by most people. I would certainly agree VY outplayed RB in the Rose Bowl, but going so far as to say 6.3 ypc with a TD and 95 receiving yds is "ineffective" just ain't facing reality.

First off, I gave props for his receiving, I am talking about his between-the-tackles running ability on handoffs. Second, if I don't get a single other point across this post, please let it be that Bush is not Barry Sanders, so anything Barry did does not apply to him. Barry was 5'8'' 200+, his butt was an inch off the ground when he ran, as opposed to Bush's upright style, never had an even average O-line, and he was difficult to tackle in the backfield because he could break tackles. The Gale Sayers comparison is fair, but not Barry Sanders...

I apologize for the oversimplification in the first post, I didn't think anyone wanted to read the long(er) version. Can we agree that turnovers swing momentum, and placing a D that just went 3 and out right back on the field is "deflating"? And that allowed the offense to readjust and give Bush extra carries where he rattled off good runs? OK, but after that, the defense regrouped and he became stagnant, until USC utilized White in the game more (for running plays), and used Reggie as the 'change of pace'. On his next 6 carries only two were for more than 2 yards (17 and 5). I don't see how you can call that effective, when the other guy on the team is getting a first down every other carry. White was more effective taking handoffs and running the ball, I don't see any way around that.

The Texans are about to bring Bush in here and pay him $60M because they think he can make a huge play anytime he touches the ball, not just on screen passes.

 

[rittenhouserobz]

Over his first 5 and 6 carry stints, White ran at a 6.2 and 8.1 clip, only carrying the ball for less than 4 yards once. That's effective running, picking up first downs, and wearing down the defense.

Throw out all the averages and everything, anyone who watched that game knows that Bush did not impress running the football. Granted, his overall numbers were great, and if he didn't try that inexplicable lateral, they would seem more impressive. My point remains, as a runner he was ineffective for the most part, and if you don't agree with that outright, then you must concede that relative to his teammate, he was less effective.

The top section: When Bush is getting the right holes the defense will be getting tired from chasing him 10-15 yards. Bush can tax the defense with the right conditions.

bottom part: Try to make up your mind. IS he great or not?

 

[el toro]

So we're back to the 'why would you want a Benz when you already have a Camry argument'? Yawn.

 

[TreWardTxn]

The top section: When Bush is getting the right holes the defense will be getting tired from chasing him 10-15 yards. Bush can tax the defense with the right conditions.

bottom part: Try to make up your mind. IS he great or not?

My entire point is that behind the same offensive line, White was more productive running the football. The run which makes Bush's running stats look decent was the TD when he turned the corner, and he didn't even hit a hole on that run. How can one guy have the right holes, and the other guy not? Did they just not block for him as well?

The numbers reflect greatness, but you can't always take them point blank. 52 of Reggie's total 84 yards came on three runs. If a guy breaks off a 60 yard run, but finishes with 90 yards on 10 carries, it looks like he had a great game and ran at an average of a first down every carry, but that may not necessarily be true. If those other carries weren't first downs or TDs, then the overall performance is not as impressive/effective...

His receiving numbers were inflated due the 27 yard reception he had at the end of the game because Texas played way off, which they could do because USC had no timeouts.

I suppose it's a matter of preference, but I would rather have the guy (like LT) who can break the 60 yard run, and still nickel and dime his way to a 100+ yd. game, picking up first downs and keeping his offense on the field.

I don't see Bush as the complete, overall back that most others do, he has major questions to his game IMO...

 

[Hawg]

My entire point is that behind the same offensive line, White was more productive running the football. The run which makes Bush's running stats look decent was the TD when he turned the corner, and he didn't even hit a hole on that run. How can one guy have the right holes, and the other guy not? Did they just not block for him as well?

The numbers reflect greatness, but you can't always take them point blank. 52 of Reggie's total 84 yards came on three runs. If a guy breaks off a 60 yard run, but finishes with 90 yards on 10 carries, it looks like he had a great game and ran at an average of a first down every carry, but that may not necessarily be true. If those other carries weren't first downs or TDs, then the overall performance is not as impressive/effective...

His receiving numbers were inflated due the 27 yard reception he had at the end of the game because Texas played way off, which they could do because USC had no timeouts.

I don't see Bush as the complete, overall back that most others do, he has major questions to his game IMO...

USC used White and Bush in two totally differnent ways. They used Bush to go for the home run hit going around the end to try and turn the corner. They used White as the smash mouth carreer. I think that Bush has enough strength to be able to run between the tackles efectivley. You cant way that bush isnt going to be able to run in there yet because you dont really now, because white was used primarily in those situations. Me personally I like the texans taking Bush. I think he will give us the homerun threat and I believe that he will be able to run between the tackles. Let us not forget that we have DD.

 

[Tejaspro]

This is what I know; I've seen Bush burst through huge holes, created by his massive O-line, which LBs had no chance of filling because they were on their back. I also know that once he played against a fast defense, capable of chasing him sideline to sideline, he was ineffective until his teammate could run between the tackles and wear the defense out (not the first time that happened). I'm not saying he can't do it, but I'm not going to sit here and act like it's a given. I'm sorry, I've watched USC numerous times and I can not recall Bush picking his way through the line, getting 4-5 yard gains. If the hole isn't there, he bounces out, and looks to reverse field, which if breaks one tackle he could go the distance, but he bypasses the 3-4 yards he could have gotten, not exactly NFL running. Bush in the open field is awesome, but he has to get there first...

blah....blah.....blah....blah.....:brickwall

 

[TreWardTxn]

USC used White and Bush in two totally differnent ways. They used Bush to go for the home run hit going around the end to try and turn the corner. They used White as the smash mouth carreer. I think that Bush has enough strength to be able to run between the tackles efectivley. You cant way that bush isnt going to be able to run in there yet because you dont really now, because white was used primarily in those situations. Me personally I like the texans taking Bush. I think he will give us the homerun threat and I believe that he will be able to run between the tackles. Let us not forget that we have DD.

This is what I'm talking about. Name me the last NFL back that was drafted highly and (according to you) hadn't proved (and I mean left no doubt) that he could run solidly between the tackles? We may both "think" he can do it, but the question remains; why did he not do it (effectively) in the Rose Bowl? Of course USC used White differently, because initially they were trying to beat Texas with speed and fast defenses (and any good D in the NFL is fast) don't get beat with speed alone.

That said, I'm not saying Bush won't be the pick or that he shouldn't be the pick (if the Texans want the best chance of winning within 2 years). I just want people to realize that he may not be the running threat most people assume he will be...