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I blame McNair

B

BREAZE

Waterboy
Ok there, I said it! I'm a big Bob McNair guy and love everything he has done up to this point. We are blessed to have an owner with good cash who puts the fans and city 1st.

However, he is ultimatley the one who hired the GM to help build this team. The result was Dom Capers, Chris Palmer, wacky draft picks, etc. The GM is the one who wasted a #1 on a QB, but has yet to draft to protect in that investment resulting in damaged goods. Everybody wants to jump on Carr, but what team would of drafted a QB and WR 1st if the strategy was to build a defense 2nd. Most teams would have put Carr on the shelf until he could be protected...that is unless your plans were never to protect him in the 1st place. The result is a QB that has been on his back more than a porn star his whole career and now may never become what he should have become.

A coach was brought in that is defense 1st...offense 2nd and yet here we are with one of the more pathetic defenses in the league. Talent makes the coach, the coach does not make the talent so this again is on the GM. Thank God we have a talented QB, WR, and RB with a pathetic O-line to fall back on...our stamp.

If we lose this week to Tenn. we may not win a ball game for some time. Until McNair makes more moves, he will utimately have to take the blame for this downturn. I'm confident he will not dissappoint! We need a whole new direction! :texflag:
 
I agree that if we do not improve change is needed. That being said, I don't believe that midseason is the best time to make these changes. McNair should definentally start courting possible replacements, but firing the GM and headcoach midseason will only cause turmoil. The team would look worse than they do right now. A perspective head coach would want to come into a situation he thinks he can work with. Seeing a team that doesnt know their @$$ hole from their elbow wouldnt be very attractive to a big name head coach IMO.
 
I guess you want a Jerry Jones-type owner roaming the sidelines every game while looking over our coach's back?

Mr. McNair is not a football guy. He's a business man who is a football fan. He'll make changes when he's darn well ready. But blaming him is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

So say we get another front office installed. You do realize that we would have to wait another couple of years for the new regime to install their players for their system. I guess by year 3 of the new staff, it's boom or bust with this crowd, 'eh? Bill Cowher would/could never make it in this market.

Have a little patience, bro. This team will come together. I BELIEVE! :cool:
 
HardKnockTexan said:
I agree that if we do not improve change is needed. That being said, I don't believe that midseason is the best time to make these changes. McNair should definentally start courting possible replacements, but firing the GM and headcoach midseason will only cause turmoil. The team would look worse than they do right now. A perspective head coach would want to come into a situation he thinks he can work with. Seeing a team that doesnt know their @$$ hole from their elbow wouldnt be very attractive to a big name head coach IMO.
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I agree, but you can pretty much cash in this year if we lose Sunday. McNair may not be too concerned about when things happen at that point...we will just have to wait and see.
 
What McNair should be doing right now is putting the heat on Casserly to do whatever it takes to get Lavar Arington in here. We are missing a defensive beast! Arington isnt happy in Washington and the Redskins may cut him. If that happens then he NEEDS to be in steal blue by week 6!
 
Double Barrel said:
I guess you want a Jerry Jones-type owner roaming the sidelines every game while looking over our coach's back?

Mr. McNair is not a football guy. He's a business man who is a football fan. He'll make changes when he's darn well ready. But blaming him is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

So say we get another front office installed. You do realize that we would have to wait another couple of years for the new regime to install their players for their system. I guess by year 3 of the new staff, it's boom or bust with this crowd, 'eh? Bill Cowher would/could never make it in this market.

Have a little patience, bro. This team will come together. I BELIEVE! :cool:
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I would not want any other owner!!!! Sorry if you misread into this. My point is sometimes you have to smack your own. If the present leadership does not get it together and if the formula continues to decline you will be waiting more than a couple of years for playoff spots my friend. Don't think the owner does not know this either...that's why I have confidence. :)
 
Me, too. I've got my trust in McNair, and I'm sure he wants a winner just as much (or more!) than we do. I like an owner that is a fan instead of a self-appointed football "expert". :thumbup

I think we'll see big changes in the offseason if this team tanks the season. With the firing of Palmer after only two games into the season, it is obvious that our owner is not scared to rock the boat in order to light a fire under this organization.

So I'm trying to stay positive about this season, as well as place my full confidence in the guy that brought football back to our fair city. :)
 
I am not and have never been sold on casserly since the Heath Shculer pick. Capers is a good DC and a decent Head Coach not sure how good at managing the game he is, but players have to play. I dont think we have put the players in the best situation to succeed. Casserly does have a nac for engineering trades, but I think McNair would be smart to put an assistant GM in place that would split with Casserly and be able to quell some of his impulses. Kinda like Phil Savage was with Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore.
 
Complaining is part of human nature, especially with football fans. And we got some things to complain bout right now, no doubt about that. As far as McNair goes, I pretty much still give him profound thanks on a daily basis for getting NFL ball back in town. Come to think about, its about as close to daily prayer as I get. McNair is maybe our community's greatest citizen -
X Prez Bush is the only one I can think of in the same league with him.
When and if mere mortals like Dom Capers and Charley Cassidy need to be replaced, I'm confidant his timing to accomplish that task will be perfect.
 
No way a guy throws away 700 million to field mediocrity.

Bob McNair seems to say what he thinks on camera without stepping on the operations toes. I have no doubt he will do the right thing long before home blackouts and empty seats. That's too much revenue to lose.
 
Double Barrel said:
I guess you want a Jerry Jones-type owner roaming the sidelines every game while looking over our coach's back?

Mr. McNair is not a football guy. He's a business man who is a football fan. He'll make changes when he's darn well ready. But blaming him is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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EXACTLEY!!!

the only time I've seen him voice his opinion was at the end of last season after the Cleveland game and he specificly stated that we (Texans) need to address aquiring some protection for David Carr. guess Casserly over ruled him in discussions with the free agent signings (PACE) & was more willing to give to draft picks for PB, aquire a medicore tackle in Riley and with the 1st pick goes defensive lineman instead of offensive lineman.

no the brunt of this issue is sqaurely upon Casserly's shoulders and if he cannot rectify the situation I have no doubt that Bob McNair will make the buisness decision :read:
 
Blame McNair for what? This is a game people....teams win and teams lose. A great game that only a few cities have and we only have 8 home games a year at that. Anybody mad at the owner because this team isn't a playoff team right now is not looking at this with any fair perspective whatsoever. If the Men he hired can't get it done he will get other Coaches and GM's. Every team in the league has rough periods...even expansion teams. This season will play out quickly. If we lose to the Tacks we can start to "Grab the shovel". I think this may catch on as much as Bum's "hold the rope" rally cry.
 
jayseed2002 said:
Double Barrel said:
I guess you want a Jerry Jones-type owner roaming the sidelines every game while looking over our coach's back?

Mr. McNair is not a football guy. He's a business man who is a football fan. He'll make changes when he's darn well ready. But blaming him is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

So say we get another front office installed. You do realize that we would have to wait another couple of years for the new regime to install their players for their system. I guess by year 3 of the new staff, it's boom or bust with this crowd, 'eh? Bill Cowher would/could never make it in this market.

Have a little patience, bro. This team will come together. I BELIEVE! :cool:[/QUOTE
Double Barrel, now I am NOT a cowboy fan at all..... but Jerry does have 3 rings..... he can't be too big of an *****. Dom and Charley have both been in the league longer than Jerry, yet Jerry has mor rings COMBINED! Think about it.....
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Three things... first you're comparing an owner to a GM and a coach. Second, Jones bennefited from the Vikings giving up mulitiple first round draft picks for Hershal Walker. Third, it was Jimmy Johnson who built that team, not Jerry Jones.
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McNair is a great owner. You won't find any better than him in the league. I'm sure he was one of the chief reasons Palmer was fired during the bye. Capers has moved quickly into the hot box.
 
jayseed2002 said:
McNair hires Casserly, Casserly hires Dom, Dom and Casserly pick the players, the players do not perform...... now look back at the first name..... McNair

Now check this out:

Jerry Jones hires Jimmy Johnson as head coach and GM...... Jimmy and Jerry pick the players( and orchestrate a GREAT trade for their team), the players perform, they win 3 super bowls..... HMMMM.... I hope our owner turns out to be as good as JJ. Now look back at the first name...... seems like this is comparing Apples to Apples to me.......
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I understand the trickle down affect. But would the Cowgirls win all those superbowls if the Vikings GM didnt have a serious brain fart and basically hand them 3 hall of fame players? McNair is a great owner. He will put the right people into the possitions to bring Houston to the superbowl... bet on it. :texflag:
 
jayseed2002 said:
Double Barrel, now I am NOT a cowboy fan at all..... but Jerry does have 3 rings..... he can't be too big of an *****. Dom and Charley have both been in the league longer than Jerry, yet Jerry has mor rings COMBINED! Think about it.....
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This is true, but you have to remember the history of Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson. At the time of the Cowboy's dynasty, he was not an owner that was trying to call all the shots. He left everything up to his coach and front office, and the results is a winning team.

Since that point (of losing JJ and the team he built, after the '95 Championship), the Cowboys have only had a winning record three times (out of 9 seasons).

2004 6-10
2003 10-6
2002 5-11
2001 5-11
2000 5-11
1999 8-8
1998 10-6
1997 6-10
1996 10-6

His coaches' records:

2003-present Bill Parcells 16-16-0
2000-2002 Dave Campo 15-33-0
1998-1999 Chan Gailey 18-16-0
1994-1997 Barry Switzer 45-26-0

He is finally relinquishing control at the moment, but that is more than likely due to the demands of the Tuna more than anything else.

I suppose the "moral of the story" is for owners to keep their noses out of football operations, 'eh?

Sure, Jones has three NFL Championships, and I would never try to take anything away from that. But these were not teams that he was the acting general manager, and it is clear that Jimmy Johnson was the mastermind behind those glory years. :)
 
No doubt in my mind that Bob McNair will make the necessary changes during the offseason. I have full faith in confidence in him.
 
McNair will be a good owner, he's just getting his feet wet.

It's like running any other business. You look at someone's resume, bring them in for an interview, talk to their previous employers. You just never really know how someone is going to perform until after they are hired. Unfortunately the pool of candidates for management positions in the NFL is very small. On top of that, it is one of the tightest good-ole-boy networks in existence.

He surrounded himself with incompetent people this first time around, but he will get better as he gains more experience. He will be better equipped to make good personnel decisions and be able to recognize sooner when things need to be changed.
 
Second, Jones bennefited from the Vikings giving up mulitiple first round draft picks for Hershal Walker.
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People say that but it really isn't fair IMO. Seems like the Saints and Washington had a blockbuster trade involving a stud RB and eight draft picks. How many SB's have the Skins have won since then (heck how about winning seasons)? Maybe there was more to the JJ thing than just one lucky trade.
 
jayseed2002 said:
Go back and READ THE THREADS!!!!! This started out about NOT having an owner like JJ........ I hope McNair is as successful over time as JJ...... GEEZ>.... READ BEFORE YOU FLAP THE GUMS! :tomato:
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What is up with you dude? Have you read the title of the thread and the first post? :confused:
 
infantrycak said:
People say that but it really isn't fair IMO. Seems like the Saints and Washington had a blockbuster trade involving a stud RB and eight draft picks. How many SB's have the Skins have won since then (heck how about winning seasons)? Maybe there was more to the JJ thing than just one lucky trade.
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I didn't think the Saints/Redskins trade was 8 picks. I thought the Saints were already low on picks that year and just traded what they had left to the Redskins.

Mike Lynn (Vikings GM) made THE worst trade in NFL history. He traded for a good back and gave up a ton of players and picks in the process. It set that team back for years. Jimmy Johnson definitely did well with those picks. He made the most of it, but that team probably wouldn't have been nearly as good without that trade.
 
I give credit for Johnson and Jones for pulling off that trade. But things have to happen in a perfect order for a dinesty to be born. Luck, stupidity and good decission making all comes into play. Would I trade McNair for Jones?? not in a heart beat.
 
Double Barrel said:
...I guess by year 3 of the new staff, it's boom or bust with this crowd, 'eh? Bill Cowher would/could never make it in this market.
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The Steelers made the playoffs in Cowher's 1st 6 seasons as head coach. I think he'd make it here.
 
Double Barrel said:
I guess you want a Jerry Jones-type owner roaming the sidelines every game while looking over our coach's back?:
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Not that UGLY sucker! :homer:


bobby 119C
 
Lucky said:
The Steelers made the playoffs in Cowher's 1st 6 seasons as head coach. I think he'd make it here.
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I respect that fact, but he didn't have to build a brand new team. (He was working with players from the Chuck Noll era to start his new HC career.)

Do you honestly believe that the fans crying for Caper's head on a platter wouldn't be calling for Cowher's head this season?

I seriously doubt Cowher would have this team in any better position at this point (except maybe fire in the belly, but that's subjective).
 
Double Barrel said:
I respect that fact, but he didn't have to build a brand new team. (He was working with players from the Chuck Noll era to start his new HC career.)
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Noll's Steelers missed the playoffs in 6 of his last 7 years as head coach. They may have been Noll's players, but they played better under Bill Cowher.

And yes, I think Bill Cowher & staff would achieve more with this group than Dom Capers & staff have. I also believe that the fans are justified in calling for new leadership. Unlike previous seasons, the Texans have not improved this season over last. In fact, they've regressed and I feel Dom Capers has taken them as far as he can.
 
Jerry Jones gets mentioned and all hell breaks loose.

There is a fundamental difference between JJ and BM and that's ego. BM would have never let Jimmie Johnson go, but he might be smart enough to bring him back...
 
Htown34s said:
What is up with you dude? Have you read the title of the thread and the first post? :confused:
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You obviously misunderstood the 1st post. The point is if time proves that the head coach's and GM's formula/stategy backfires then the owner has to be mentioned from an accountablilty standpoint...he hired them and all arrows are beginning to point towards a backfire.

Everbody is confident BM will do the right thing and get this bus heading in the right direction. :texflag:
 
Lucky said:
Noll's Steelers missed the playoffs in 6 of his last 7 years as head coach. They may have been Noll's players, but they played better under Bill Cowher.

And yes, I think Bill Cowher & staff would achieve more with this group than Dom Capers & staff have. I also believe that the fans are justified in calling for new leadership. Unlike previous seasons, the Texans have not improved this season over last. In fact, they've regressed and I feel Dom Capers has taken them as far as he can.
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Without a doubt, Noll had lost the confidence of the team (even after earning four championships in his tenure).

However, he and his staff still picked the talent that Cowher utilized his first several years with successful results.

My point is that Cowher did not start off with nothing. Capers & Co. did, and have built from the ground up.

I still think Cowher (or whoever) would have had a tough battle with the expansion deal that was given to the Texans. I seriously doubt anybody would have built a playoff contender from scratch in four years. (Please don't refer me to the Panthers or Jaguars, as they had completely different expansion deals than offered to the Browns or Texans.)

And if we turnover our entire front office (from the GM down, which seems to be the prevalent thought around here) every three years, I think success will be fleeting, at best.
 
BREAZE said:
You obviously misunderstood the 1st post.
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I guess I interpreted it differently. To me, when you take the title you choose for this thread together with your first post it comes across differently. Assigning the blame to him means that he caused all of this to happen, that he was the one directly responsible.

Bob was a new owner when he made his hires, and I'll bet a lot of what he did was based on suggestions from others within the NFL. To me his first big test will be his next move. :texans:
 
As much as I like the Cowboys I can't stand Jerry Jones. McNair is a much classier person than Jones. I'm grateful for him bringing football back to Houston. Got a great facility that other cities are jocking - especially Jones that asswhore. Anyway, we still have a long season ahead. The team can turn this around. So in hoping that it begins to happen this week, GO TEXANS!!!!!
 
I think Mr. McNair has been a great owner and will do whatever is necessary to replace incompetent people in the front office and on the coaching staff. He said so himself after the Pittsburgh game: "Whatever changes we need to make, we'll make." He also said there was no point in making a change if the change wouldn't improve anything.

Shortly after that, Palmer was fired and the team showed some life last week. Firing Capers and Casserly now probably wouldn't be the best thing to do. If the team continues on its downward trajectory, I'm confident he'll show both of those guys the door. I can't imagine he wants to be the owner of a team that's the butt of jokes.

I'd love to see Mr. McNair hire Jimmy Johnson as head coach/GM or as head coach with final say in personnel matters. He's proven to be a great evaluator of talent and a winner in the NFL. Hopefully, his competitive juices are flowing again and he'd be willing to leave his cushy analyst job for the rigors of building a Super Bowl contender.
 
Vinny said:
Blame McNair for what? This is a game people....teams win and teams lose. A great game that only a few cities have and we only have 8 home games a year at that. Anybody mad at the owner because this team isn't a playoff team right now is not looking at this with any fair perspective whatsoever. If the Men he hired can't get it done he will get other Coaches and GM's. Every team in the league has rough periods...even expansion teams. This season will play out quickly. If we lose to the Tacks we can start to "Grab the shovel". I think this may catch on as much as Bum's "hold the rope" rally cry.
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I think many of the posters (myself included) would prefer to "get a rope". :D
IMHO We Texan fans just set ourselves up for this letdown with all the offseason playoff talk.
 
rafterticket said:
No way a guy throws away 700 million to field mediocrity.
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he did not "throw away 700 million"

you do understand he gets a huge positive cash flow back from that, right?

the level of fawning serfdom in houston gets really old.
 
lucky he is still paying that 700 million off. so..no..he isnt raking it in right now. Maybe down the road.
 
lucky13 said:
he did not "throw away 700 million"

you do understand he gets a huge positive cash flow back from that, right?

the level of fawning serfdom in houston gets really old.
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Did you know that HE gets the revenue for butts in seats? That means concessions. He won't make that much money off 12,000 Sunday beer drunks if his team stinks, buddy. Everything else is part of their revenue sharing.

No "serf" here, pal.
 
I think McNair and Casserly are suffering from the total incompetence of the Capers' coaching staff. Capers I believe is the biggest problem and pushing his wishes at the expense of the team. He can not adapt to his players and that's it in a nut shell. I still think Casserly has done a reasonable job drafting, but he's being pushed by Capers on the use of certain picks.

I'm also going to say that Capers caused another big problem with the drafting of players. Remember, Casserly's philosophy is to pick the best talent available at the time of the pick. He deemed that to be Carr one year and AJ the next year. The problem is that Capers really didn't want those players. Quite frankly, with the Head Coach we have they should have drafted young defensive players and focused on older offensive players to build the offense until the defense was ready. They did the opposite and that really has hurt Capers and the Texans tremondously.

If you recall I've said the injuries in year 2 hurt us much more than people understood. One of the big reasons is that the defense we were building was made up of older experience players who reached the end of their careers before we expected. This has resulted in many unexpected holes in the defense which had to be replaced a lot sooner than planned based on Capers plans. Because of Capers philosophy they had no extra picks to use on O-line players.

Casserly was going in one direction and his head coach was going in another. Why? Because the head coach is incapable of adapting to what he has, not what he wants. Casserly saw big value in the picks he choose, like Carr and AJ, but they didn't fit into Caper's wish list. The end result has been Chaos. No, don't fire any more players or Casserly, but do fire everyone of the coaches except for perhaps the special teams coaches.

I do agree that we need to see more fire coming from McNair and directed towards the coaching staff. I firmly believe that Capers sold everyone a bill of goods concerning this year's O-line. He went totally against the stated wishes of McNair. On a ship that would be called MUTINY. Capers should walk the plank.............................
 
Great post Ibar...one of the best I have read. I would only add that I believe it is a mistake for McNair to give Capers and Fangio anymore time (and especially not 13 more games).

Why? Because I actually now believe the situation has declined to the point where their incompetence has risen to the level of putting players that we will need to build this team on next year at risk (both physically and psychologically)
 
I've been told that Casserly is also totally hands off when it comes to who plays once the roster is set. He lets the coaches make all of those decisions, and I guess he'll hold them accountable in the end if he doesn't agree with their line-ups.
 
lucky13 said:
he did not "throw away 700 million"

you do understand he gets a huge positive cash flow back from that, right?
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sure, to offset incredible debt load. Not many people are willing to take on 700 million dollars in debt in order to make some money. There are easier and safer ways to make money than to shell out 700 million dollars.

lucky13 said:
the level of fawning serfdom in houston gets really old.
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as does your redundant bashing of the local fans.
 
Hey Fresno guy...McNair stays out of football decisions. He will make some moves this off-season but McNair is our guy here and he brought us TEXANS football back to our city. You Fresno-Carr guys will follow Carr anywhere he plays...so defend him all you want but McNair isn't the problem here. He was promised protection for the QB before the season. So far he hasn't gotten it but heads will roll.
 
Man, I'm just glad to have a team to gripe about, how long have you lived here. If you are a native, you know how bad it was without football. I'll always respect him for stepping up to the plate and forking over the millions to get us a team instead of letting it go to LA. The NFL was trying to hand the franchise to LA. Mcnair worked his butt off to get us a team. And i'm willing to promise you that after this 1-15 or 2-14 season, there will be a much needed overhaul. I'll always love and respect Mr. Mcnair
 
I got a serious question for you all. Why should we respect McNair? I'll cut him some slack for the first couple seasons, but c'mon. Your first player ever taken, a QB, is getting killed out there. McNair does nothing but sit on *** and let Cass and Capers try and ruin a QB who has the potential, maybe not to be great, but at least productive for any team. He doesn't supply his offense with with the proper skill players to move the ball. He puts up with a coach who says after every game, "I'll go over the tapes and see what we can do to fix the problem." The coach doesn't even realize he's driving this team into the ground. I swear, if I was the owner, I would have spent money out the *** to bring in an o-line coach, get rid of this joke of a blocking scheme, and went after Peerless Price for a decent #2 WR. Hell, anything other than saying, "I want to win, and I don't like losing." You know, for a owner that wants to win, he has a funny way of showing it.
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Without questioning your big-business acumen, I'll just say that McNair is doing the job he's supposed to do. He's not a football guy - he's a businessman. There's nothing worse than a businessman buying a team, thinking he's a football guy, firing the coach that takes you to back-to-back Super Bowls, ruins the team, and eventually gives in and hires a proven coach to run things.

His job is to surround himself with football people and trust their decisions. If, over a period of time, their decisions prove to be incorrect, it's his job to replace them. His yardstick for this is fan feedback and bottom-line revenue. How he conducts himself during this trying time will, in part, determine what quality of personnel he'll be able to attract. If he flies off the handle and doesn't conduct himself professionally, the chances that he can attract top talent for GM and/or coaching positions are somewhat reduced.
 
Vinny said:
Hey Fresno guy...McNair stays out of football decisions. He will make some moves this off-season but McNair is our guy here and he brought us TEXANS football back to our city. You Fresno-Carr guys will follow Carr anywhere he plays...so defend him all you want but McNair isn't the problem here. He was promised protection for the QB before the season. So far he hasn't gotten it but heads will roll.
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Yes, and as an executive with 25% of the season gone and how many millions of revenue going down the tubs and salaries paid and having been sold a bill of goods, I would be out there letting people know in no uncertain terms that I was you know what and everyone would be aware. We have not seen that from McNair. They brought Carr in as a passer not as a QB to hand off the ball. They promised to protect Carr and they have not done so in 4 years. Even Loseman at Buffalo had far better protection that Carr has ever had. Vinny, you and I will disagree on a lot of things, but I don't believe you can argue that Carr has really ever had any protection except perhaps in the 1st game he played against Dallas and you saw the results. Is Carr the player some of us think he is, I don't know and I really don't think anyone will ever know. Quite frankly, I think he is playing hurt from both a physical and mental point of view. He has taken a lot of abuse while being in Houston. He's always been a company man and seldom complained. McNair is not the captain of the ship rather he is the ADMIRAL and its time to demote his Captain and appoint a new one..............................
 
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