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How much longer do we give Carr????
- Thread starter Texas_Thrill
- Start date
FILO_girl
I'm not here
Texas_Thrill said:
Ask what you want, but be prepared for all answers. I get roasted once in awhile, no biggie. We all have opinions, and once in awhile you will find one that matches your own. LOL!
I have questioned David several times myself. It is OK to question, doesn't mean you are not a fan. Some questioning is good, shows you form your opinion on what YOU see, not on just what some hack reporter sees.
I see your frustration about the O line. I have it myself. I am not totally sold on "this year they will be better". My boss doesn't give me a full season to know my position, should we let our O line have this too? I have been told I don't see the whole picture on this. It is possible, I think I was wrong once, a long time ago......
(that was a joke)
That's what I wanna do....draft average at best picks in the 1st because the 'AINTS did it. If we drafted all the top prospects this year AND signed all of last years top OL, they would still need a year or so to gel. Why is that so hard to understand? The OL is the hardest place to try to "plug and play" with different personnel.'04 was a mix of new players, players at new positions and a new scheme. Growing pains are part of the process. I hope poor draft choices don't become part of it.olyy said:
canadiantexan
Waterboy
I can't believe that there is another thread questioning David Carr's ability(especialy on this message board). David ran for the second most yards in the league last year among quaterbacks. Mr. Carr also threw for more yards in the AFC than anyone except for Manning, Brady, Plummer and Trent Green thats pretty good company. David Carr has gotten better every year and I would suggest that as a rookie if he had went to a team that was'nt in it's expansion he would damn close to a pro bowler now. David is our franchise guy and will prove that to all his doubters this year.
Get aboard or get the **** out of the way!
Get aboard or get the **** out of the way!
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
When you look at this topic you have account for alot of things. #1 their are bigger fish to fry- lets just assume Carr isn't cutting the job and isnt our franchise qb (which btw he is the complete oppisite). What good is it going to do to replace him. If you do replace him your going to have to go through the whole learning curve again with another qb that has to learn the playbook all over again (which will scrap the progress we have made over the past 3 years) and on top of that your going to be throwing him behind the same Oline- which will do absolutely no good. So even if we did have a inept qb, we have a even worse oline. First things first we would still need to establish a solid ol, because it isn't going to do any good plugging another qb behind this line. If you did all that your just exposing another qb to punishment and setting him up for failure. So before we post these questions we need to get the line in order. Also what is the worst that you could say about David last year. He was probably avg. or a notch below avg. and thats behind arguably the worst line in football. Just imagine how much better he or our passing game would be behind a avg. oline, that he would be able trust in, where he could wait to the last second and be able to stand tall in the pocket. I got tired of seeing him have to fire out passes to recievers that were in the middle of running routes. One thing is for sure when he does get a solid Oline he should have great poise, cause he has been passing under fire for 3 years now.
THEFUTURE
Rookie
anyone that thinks we should have drafted a tackle in this draft with our first day picks are silly, capers already said the line would be returning in tact, mckinney as of now is the only one i think needs to be replaced, Wand was in his first year starting, and in a new scheme then he had been learning the year prior.. if he still has problems then fine, look to replace him... but im not looking for his head quite yet.. next is the fact that there were quality tackles, every analyst i have ever heard speak said that this years OL draft picks were all not exactly superb, that next years talent will be far greater then this years... so why take a avg at best OL, when we already have avg OL... instead we went the right route and picked up players we felt could make impacts at important positions... finally back to David Carr, he is not going anywhere, barring any bad injuries, knock on wood, he will be a sight to watch this year
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I don't care how the line gets better, whether it is through players improving of whatever, I just want it to improve FAST. Also anybody that questions Carr I dare you to bring up 3 qbs (you can go through the whole history of the league) that have suffered anything close to the # of sacks Carr has suffered and show me the #s they have put up, cause I garuantee you it isn't anything better Carr has put up. He just needs protection.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
please do im curious to see the numbers myself
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I understand I'm pretty tired also, I wouldn't even know where to dig stats up like that
he was a sight to watch last year, it just wasn't a pretty sight.
I am on the fence with Carr. I saw plenty of reason's to blame the line play, early in the year. But last part of the year I saw plenty of reason's to blame Carr directly. Perhaps he was a bit 'shell shocked' from the hits during the first part of the season. Sometime soon he has to get more confidence in his line, and they have to know that he is going to step up INTO the pocket they forming and not run to his right everytime he sees a Defensive lineman coming, even if he is actually being blocked effectively. Carr had a bit too much 'flight of fright' runs last year and I would personally say about half of them were not necessary. Some of those hits he brings on himself.
I am looking forward to the line gelling together for an entire year for the first time ever, appeared some of that was happening at the end of last season. I am also hoping that it will calm Carr down some and make him more eager to step into the pocket and get that extra second or two that he seems to need to find his open receiver. One thing is for sure, Carr will never be compared to any QB who has ever played as being one with a 'quick release'.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
The only problem with that is many have agreed that pocket was collaspeing from the center postion. Mckinney rarely was able to hold his ground and on many occasions was driven straight back into Carr (obviously the coaching staff noticed also, seeing how the only Olineman the drafted was a center), so how do you expect him to step up into a pocket that collasping right on him. That is why on many occasions he took of running, becuase he was fushed out of it and many times ran right into more pressure from the edge rush. There were many sacks pinned on Wand just for that reason. Another thing is how do you expect him to trust in his line. Trust is gained over time not after a game or so. Just becuase he might get solid protection on one play doesn't mean he is going to expect it on the next. The line was too inconsistent last year. Come to think of it inconsistentcy is what our major problem is. We also had a inconsistent rb and a inconsistent defense (especially on third downs)
we also had an inconsistant QB.
You may be, and it certainly seems so, a huge Carr fan. I'm not knocking the guy, but he ain't no Marino, or Montana either. Not by a LOOOONG shot. Carr called plenty of plays last year at the line that didn't work for diddly. He ran into the Defensive right tackle enough times to make you wonder if he was a sadist and enjoyed eating dirt. Alot of times he didn't have to. Was the pocket collapsing, yeah it sometimes did. Yet other times it was a textbook pocket and Carr still didn't step into it. Biggest knock I actually have on Carr is he has not pocket awareness. Both from the sense of recognizing where the pocket is and how to step into it and from the perspective of where the pass rush is coming from. He simply doesn't have an awareness of who is around him and where the sack seems to be coming from.
the question was how long are we going to give Carr. My answer would be next season. If he doesn't seem to improve DRAMATICALLY next season, then I would say he is and always will be an average, at best, NFL QB. Which is not necessarily a bad thing in and unto itself. But he won't be getting into the HOF that way either.
You may be, and it certainly seems so, a huge Carr fan. I'm not knocking the guy, but he ain't no Marino, or Montana either. Not by a LOOOONG shot. Carr called plenty of plays last year at the line that didn't work for diddly. He ran into the Defensive right tackle enough times to make you wonder if he was a sadist and enjoyed eating dirt. Alot of times he didn't have to. Was the pocket collapsing, yeah it sometimes did. Yet other times it was a textbook pocket and Carr still didn't step into it. Biggest knock I actually have on Carr is he has not pocket awareness. Both from the sense of recognizing where the pocket is and how to step into it and from the perspective of where the pass rush is coming from. He simply doesn't have an awareness of who is around him and where the sack seems to be coming from.
the question was how long are we going to give Carr. My answer would be next season. If he doesn't seem to improve DRAMATICALLY next season, then I would say he is and always will be an average, at best, NFL QB. Which is not necessarily a bad thing in and unto itself. But he won't be getting into the HOF that way either.
Texan Dave
Waterboy
Thegr8fan, get the stats from the first three years of some of the quarterbacks you considered to be good and compare them to Carr. Verry seldom do quarterbacks come into their own bye their 3'rd year. I think you'll find his stats to be verry simular to people such as Joe Montana, Troy Aikman,....etc,etc. I'm not saying that he's anywear near the quarterback they were. But the fact is that throwing out a verdict on a quarterback in the NFL within the first 3 or 4 years is totaly ludicrist. Perfect example, Drew Breese, and Bret Favre. Imagine, the people in Atlanta were anxious to see Favre leave. The Chargers drafted a quarteback that wanted nothing to do with them, while they had a probowler siting in their livingroom, talk about a waste of 40 million dollars, on a rookie backup.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
thegr8fan said:we also had an inconsistant QB.
You may be, and it certainly seems so, a huge Carr fan. I'm not knocking the guy, but he ain't no Marino, or Montana either. Not by a LOOOONG shot. Carr called plenty of plays last year at the line that didn't work for diddly. He ran into the Defensive right tackle enough times to make you wonder if he was a sadist and enjoyed eating dirt. Alot of times he didn't have to. Was the pocket collapsing, yeah it sometimes did. Yet other times it was a textbook pocket and Carr still didn't step into it. Biggest knock I actually have on Carr is he has not pocket awareness. Both from the sense of recognizing where the pocket is and how to step into it and from the perspective of where the pass rush is coming from. He simply doesn't have an awareness of who is around him and where the sack seems to be coming from.
the question was how long are we going to give Carr. My answer would be next season. If he doesn't seem to improve DRAMATICALLY next season, then I would say he is and always will be an average, at best, NFL QB. Which is not necessarily a bad thing in and unto itself. But he won't be getting into the HOF that way either.
First of all I'm not some huge Carr fan and I know he was inconsistent at times, AS IS EVERY OTHER YOUNG QB, even the great Bret farve is inconsistent at times. There is nothing more I would rather do than to be able to judge Carr, TRUST ME I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO FAIRLY EVELUATE HIS PROGRESS, but as of right now I see him as a boxer standing in the middle of the ring with one hand tied behind his back, with the oline being the strap. We are never going to know what we have until we're able to see what he can do behind a avg. oline. It would be a totaly different story if I was a lion fan. They have a qb that has had excellent protection and all he has been able to do is put up #s par to a qb that has started on a expansion team who has had to pick himself off the ground 140 times. I think it is pretty stupid to think that the qb position is some kind of superman that can just leap and over blitzing defenders and put up great numbers behind a insufficient line. He and everyother qb is only going to be as good as the parts around him. Also lets look at what a sack does to a drive, 8 times out of 10 it is a drive KILLER! Ill even give you more slack lets say out of those 140 sacks a 100 of them ended a drive, how much of those 100's of drives could of been touchdowns and not only are those sacks killing our production, they are putting our defense in a tight spot and giving the opposition short fields, which then cuases us to fall behind early in games, which then allows the oppositions defense to just pin their ears back and tee off on our qb, Who still has the same insufficient oline he has had the past three years. The last of our problems is the qb position. Next year if they do "Gel" and god they better OR HEADS WILL ROLL and only surrender like 20 sacks and if he doesn't improve ill be the first one to throw him under the bus.
I have done the stats thing, many times. Carr loses when you do that. Think about it though and the stats for Carr's first 3 years are not as applicable as other QB's are cause most of them didn't start their careers with expansion teams. If the Texans were an established team and Carr had started THEN, you could compare the stats on a one-to-one basis. That situation doesn't apply here, IMHO.
Carr is not a bad QB. He ain't a great one either. Out of the 32 starting QB's in the league, I would say he is right about #16, average. Could be worse, could be better. Will he improve, maybe. Course right now the chances are 50/50 that he will improve, but they are the same that he won't either. I give him one more year, simply due to the fact that he is playing on an expansion team, to show me that he is capable of becoming a gr8 QB. If he doesn't do it next season then I will quite simply consider him as being what he has shown up to this point in his career and that is an average QB. Alot of teams do good things with average QB's. So it isn't like I am anti-Carr. I just ain't on the 'Carr is the next coming of Montana' bandwaggon either. By the 3rd year, you either 'get it' or you are relagated to being a backup QB in the NFL for the rest of your life and the team starts to look for their next Superstar Marino, Elway, Montana.
Heck looking at it from a Glass half full perspective, he at least wasn't a #1 QB pick that was a total flop, as has happened in the past.
Carr is not a bad QB. He ain't a great one either. Out of the 32 starting QB's in the league, I would say he is right about #16, average. Could be worse, could be better. Will he improve, maybe. Course right now the chances are 50/50 that he will improve, but they are the same that he won't either. I give him one more year, simply due to the fact that he is playing on an expansion team, to show me that he is capable of becoming a gr8 QB. If he doesn't do it next season then I will quite simply consider him as being what he has shown up to this point in his career and that is an average QB. Alot of teams do good things with average QB's. So it isn't like I am anti-Carr. I just ain't on the 'Carr is the next coming of Montana' bandwaggon either. By the 3rd year, you either 'get it' or you are relagated to being a backup QB in the NFL for the rest of your life and the team starts to look for their next Superstar Marino, Elway, Montana.
Heck looking at it from a Glass half full perspective, he at least wasn't a #1 QB pick that was a total flop, as has happened in the past.
-false
-true
-false
-false
- neither
how did I do on the true and false parts?
quick release? yeah that would account for the 140 sacks in the NFL where the ref's won't count it a sack unless you don't pump fake it once, not tuck it in, fling it out as you are going down, or any of the other various QB tricks the NFL lets them get away with to avoid the sack charge. Your seriously kidding me about this one right?
Strong arm- yep one of the strongest in the league. Now if he could just show it during the game and not during warm ups.
Good decision maker- sorry but given his history of changing of the play at the line's ability to get almost no yardage out of it, I would say his decision making ability is severly in question.
Happy feet- only person I know of who's feet move more is MC Hammer when he is doing the Hammertime dance.
Carr is GOING to be a great QB- care to name a date on when that is going to happen? I give him one more year to impress me with that idea. After that I will totally give up on it, as it will become an absurdity. Good QB, yep. Great QB, not yet.
Carr Bomb, I am really curious how you can seem to evaluate the O-line as a unit, you can even break it down to individuals, naming McKinney as the prime culprit, and you can talk about how bad it is. But for some reason you can't evaluate a QB himself, or how his progress is in regards to the team. How is it that you can apply some criteria for evaluation of the ENTIRE O-line, but can't seem to find the criteria to evaluate a single QB?
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
thegr8fan said:
thegr8fan said:
you don't get it how he loses, but then you answer your own question on how that happens. Yes it was is more difficult to put up #'s on an expansion team, that is how Carr loses.
finally we find some common ground we can agree on.
which is also why I haven't closed the books totally on him making it into the upper crust of QB's and am willing to give him one more year to 'smooth out the rough edges' and do so.
Texan Dave
Waterboy
Look thegr8fan, I went through and looked at every quarterback starting in the league, plus Aikman, Montana, Elway, Kelly, and Marino. The ONLY 4 that did any better than he did in their third season was Marino, Manning, Brady, and Pennington. Carr has his weaknesses, but at least he isn't as bad off as as Elway was, who threw over 600 passes, for 3,891 yards and 22 TD's, but also threw 23 interceptions, with a 53% completion percentage and a 70.2 rating, and only got sacked 12 times (talk about a dramatic season full of high's and lows). David Carr's no Elway??? I'm glad he wasn't the equivilent of Elway in his 3'rd season. Also Troy Aikman who's no hall of famer (yet) but stil was a verry talented and respected QB didn't do **** untill his 5'th season. Also Penningtons 3'rd year would've been no better except he only threw 6 interceptions, a record low for all 3'rd year QB's. Another neat thing I found out was that the next highest sack total for all the QB's I looked at in their 3'rd year was Vinny Testeverdie, he was sacked 38 times with Tampa Bay compared to Carr's 49, and you think Carr had a soso season, Vinny was horrible.
on his accurancy, I am perfectly happy with that. I think he is highly accurate. I also think that some of those int's come from balls bouncing off his receivers hands and into the Defense. I have no problem with Carr's accuracy or his arm strength.
Now on his reads, yes, he needs ALOT of work. I hold out the hope that this is something that one acquires with more reps. So the more games he plays the better he gets at this, hopefully.
Carr has also learned how to put a little 'touch' on his throws which make them easier to catch, IMHO.
See it isn't all bad stuff.
Just wish he would call an audible that worked occasionally. And he would stop doing the 'look at AJ, dump it to DD' scheme that he seems to have made too much of a habit out of. There are other players out there working for the ball also.
Now on his reads, yes, he needs ALOT of work. I hold out the hope that this is something that one acquires with more reps. So the more games he plays the better he gets at this, hopefully.
Carr has also learned how to put a little 'touch' on his throws which make them easier to catch, IMHO.
See it isn't all bad stuff.
Just wish he would call an audible that worked occasionally. And he would stop doing the 'look at AJ, dump it to DD' scheme that he seems to have made too much of a habit out of. There are other players out there working for the ball also.
edo783
Hall of Fame
thegr8fan said:on his accurancy, I am perfectly happy with that. I think he is highly accurate. I also think that some of those int's come from balls bouncing off his receivers hands and into the Defense. I have no problem with Carr's accuracy or his arm strength.
Now on his reads, yes, he needs ALOT of work. I hold out the hope that this is something that one acquires with more reps. So the more games he plays the better he gets at this, hopefully.
Carr has also learned how to put a little 'touch' on his throws which make them easier to catch, IMHO.
See it isn't all bad stuff.
Just wish he would call an audible that worked occasionally. And he would stop doing the 'look at AJ, dump it to DD' scheme that he seems to have made too much of a habit out of. There are other players out there working for the ball also.
I have been watching you rag on Carr up and down through out this post. I have a question for you. Do you think Brady is a good QB? Perhaps even a very good one. Perhaps one you would prefer having on your team?
Texan Dave
Waterboy
Anyhow, the point is that you can't judge what a QB in the NFL is going to be in just 4 years, some make a break out in 4, the exceptionally great do it in 3, and some do it in 5 or 6, Steve Young was traded traded to the 49'rs from the Bucks after his 4'th season because he suposedly wasn't ever going to be anything but a quality backup. Now he's in the hall of fame. The Bucks seem to like to give away good QB's.
yes. I think he is a good QB. Great QB, nope. I think he is fortunate to have Belichick as a Head Coach who has put together a very good football team and a system that works very well with Brady. But no, I don't think Brady is a Montana, Marino, or Favre quality QB. Would I want him on the team as my QB, no. He wouldn't be at the top 5 prospects for a QB that I would want to go out and get from another team. What this has to do with Carr I have absolutely no idea. But I am sure you will make that link soon, hopefully, clear to me and the rest of this thread.
and yes, Texan Dave, the rest of the 31 teams in the NFL, send their future superstars to Tampa Bay and let them groom them so they can pick them up later and turn them into football giants bound for the HOF one day. I have thought that same thing myself for years now. Why does anyone draft a QB? Why not just pick up Tampa's rejects and let them come to the team and launch their next NLF HOF career.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
thegr8fan said:Carr Bomb, I am really curious how you can seem to evaluate the O-line as a unit, you can even break it down to individuals, naming McKinney as the prime culprit, and you can talk about how bad it is. But for some reason you can't evaluate a QB himself, or how his progress is in regards to the team. How is it that you can apply some criteria for evaluation of the ENTIRE O-line, but can't seem to find the criteria to evaluate a single QB?
You want me to evaluate our Qb fine.
Things he needs to work on: at times his throwing motion seems to side armed, especialy on intermediate short range passes, leading to the occasional batted ball. Although there have been qbs succeed with unorthodox throwing styles I would like to see him straighten it out, but he does have great success with it when he runs a boot leg.
Gets happy feet at times, but again until we solidify the line I don't expect that to improve a whole lot.
People have question if he progresses through his reads, but again until we solidify the line I expect to see him to continue to dump off, Although having said that he did improve greatly in that area last year, especially in the begining of the season. Gaff had his best year as a pro and on many occasions he hooked up with D. Armstrong.
I really don't have any other beef with him and of the 3 things I mentioned 2 relate to the pressure and time he has two throw. Now I'm not saying the pass rush is the reason everytime he makes those mistakes, but if you see that much pressure you start expecting it on every play. Its like the clock in his head has been sped up and as soon as it goes off he looks to get rid of the ball. Hopefully with improved pass protection we can add a few seconds to that clock.
Things I'm pleased with: Leadership and toughness- Many qbs put in Carrs position would already have started wars in the press and probably already start to question the franchise and his lineman PUBLICLY. Carr hasn't drawn this organization nor his teamates through the mud, instead he has taken his lumps and in turn gained the respect of his teamates. Even had said this however I beleive if Carr suffers another 40 something sack season I expect him to start speaking out, as well he should, 4 seasons is plenty of enough time to find adequate protection. We saw the beginnings of it one the field last season.
Grace under fire- Last year I saw some pretty good throws made under alot of pressure, sure there were other that weren't great, but Qbs aren't always going to make a perfect throw under pressure.
Arm strength- Carr definetly has a NFL arm, no questions there
Mobility- That was one of the surprises with Carr, cause I didn't remember hearing anything about during his collage career- although he probably didn't have to run as much
Accuracy and Touch- Although he isn't a master of both yet, he did make alot of progress on both last season, especially on the long ball.
All in all he didn't have that bad of a season, considering the circumstances. Especially in the first have of the season. I don't know what happened during the second. Maybe he was flustered or maybe we had half a season of game tape for our oppenents to study and with never really establishing a steller running game we didn't give them much to respect in that area. He threw for more tds than ints (which is what everybody was asking for) and usually about 90% of the time, their next season is really where they start to improve dramtically.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Texan Dave said:
But will be on the 1st ballot. Sure he didn't do anything until his 5th season except go to the pro-bowl in his 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons and oh yeah, win a Super Bowl in his 4th season. That said, there are certainly similarities/coincidences to Carr and Aikman's track records so far and Aikman sure turned out OK.
IMO Carr's and Aikman's careers will be very similar. Dallas wasn't much more than an expansion team when he was drafted and he took a pounding and much fan criticism. Remember the whole Steve Walsh thing? Most of the fans wanted Walsh to start. Carr is gonna do some great things in a Texans uniform and be our first hall of famer. Hide and watch...Super Bowl in 2008 and back to back in 2009(when we host of course)..
edo783
Hall of Fame
thegr8fan said:
Glad to see you think Brady is a good QB. Interesting about the Montana thing as it was the same knock on Joe as some folks are putting on Brady. Personally I think Brady is about as good of a QB as there is today in an all aound sense. Smart, accurate, resonably mobile and doesn't give the game away. The reason I asked about Brady is, if you look at Carr's and Brady's 04 numbers they are VERY similar. They each threw for ~ 3500 yards, they each made about the same number of throws and completions, 60%+ completion rate and 14 INTs. Where you will see a difference is TDs. (the interesting thing is if you look at the top 7 or 8 QBs the same GENERAL thing holds true). So, if he is throwing for approximatly the same amount of yards, the throws and completions are close and have nearly the same INTs, but only differ in the number of TDs, what do you think may be the issue???? Could it be the scheme and coaching dicisions in the red zone??? Ya think! And lets not forget that ALL the other QBs had MUCH better O-lines to work behind. So to trash David for what he is doing would be a large error. He is ALLREADY performing at or near the top QB levels in the league. Do we want him to get more TDs....of course, but to do that requires the right red zone calls being made so that the score happens. He is making all the throws between the twenties that is why his numbers are similar to the others, but the OC is making mistakes inside the twenty.
Wolf
100% Texan
edo783 said:
one BIG difference is Brady is able to spread the ball around more.. Texans go AJ then DD... I am not knocking Carr on this (yet he needs to improve on spreading the ball around) because it may be that our WR's can't get open.. Also IMO.. besides the OL of the Patriots being better than ours.. Teams don't want Dillion beating them singlehandedly ...DD..well Opponents gear to stop AJ
on that bet you would lose every time Hulk75. In fact I was shocked, and somewhat outraged when the crowd 'boo-ed' him in the last game. I didn't, nor would I ever do that. Critique him amongst football fans, yep. Publicly boo him or cheer for any player, Texan or otherwise, who is injured, NEVER. I would challenge you to find any post on here where I talked about even liking that kind of behaviour out of anyone. Don't act like you know me, or know anything about how I conduct myself at a football game.
uh, you might want to rein in the emotion when you type a rebuttal. 140 sacks has EVERYTHING to do with getting sacked 140 times. That is why they call it a sack and statmaster's even count them. Steve? Chester? what, you know McKinney and Pitts on a first name basis now? Eat at the same table as often as you eat at mine, do you? The last sentence I am having a hard time deciding what your intent is. Are you admitting that it is Carr's fault for the sack and the way the lineman say 'that was your fault Carr' is by picking him up and brushing him off? Or are you saying that their only responsibility is to pick him up and brush him off? And here I thought they were supposed to actually block another Defensive player, or two. Couldn't we just get a 'pick him up and brush him off' support type person who could run in from the sidelines like a waterboy and do this instead of paying all that money to our Lineman to do this? Seems like it might free them up to do something else, like say block somebody. Perhaps that is the problem, they are so worried about forgetting about picking him up and brushing him off that they can't concentrate on the blocking part.
Don't read too much into my reply Hulk75. I don't hate on Carr. I don't think that my posts say that at all. I do critique him, just as I do the other players, and the team as a whole. Carr is not above critique. That is all I am saying. I am not even saying he is in the bottem half of the NFL as far as QB's, IMHO. I just haven't seen anything to make me think he is some kind of QB superstar. Perhaps that is to come in the next year, perhaps not. We will see when the season starts. I am sitting here hoping that he dramatically improves next season and things start clicking for him and the team, particularly the O-line play. We will have to see. But I can critique what I have seen so far and it isn't all the great, IMHO. It ain't bad, but it ain't great, either. It is quite simply just good QB play, average, good, play.
IMHO, Carr's Sack total has a little to do with the O-line play, but alot more to do with his lack of 'pocket awareness'. Pocket Awareness is either something you have, or don't have. It isn't taught. If Carr had more of it, he would 'feel' where the sack was coming from and avoid it, or get rid of the ball before the pocket collapsed or he was sacked. If I had to point out one glaringly obvious problem with Carr, that would be it. He just doesn't seem to be able to tell when someone is near him or not. Sometimes he hears phantom feet and sometime he doesn't hear the real feet that are coming for him. All are symptoms of a very poor Pocket awareness, IMHO. Until that improves he will always be simply an average QB, IMHO. That isn't a 'hate on Carr', it is quite simply an observation.
Carr is running the expansion team version of the "Run-and-Shoot". It's called the "chuck and duck". When he gets some ACTUAL protection and the mental protection that comes with it, he's gonna WOW!! the NFL. I don't think any QB in the history of the NFL could do better than Carr under the same circumstances. You'll see the happy feet go away and the cannon arm deliver precision strikes when he finally has, AND FEELS LIKE HE HAS, adequate protection to make more than 2 reads per snap. He is much of a man to take the punishment he's had to take. Just hide and watch this year. Carr is gonna have a banner year. 25 TD's to 7 INT's. 68% completions for 9.3 yds per and 4500 yds passing. DD hits 1500 yds rushing and 1,000 receiving. AJ hits 1700 receiving. Gonna be a monster year for the Texan "O". Thank Dom Capers and the coaching staff for it. They chose not to mesh with the OL and will have 2 starters in the Pro Bowl next year. Seth Wand and Chester Pitts. I predict 10-6 and a Wild Card berth with a Wild Card victory over Pttsburgh.
Carr is running the expansion team version of the "Run-and-Shoot". It's called the "chuck and duck". When he gets some ACTUAL protection and the mental protection that comes with it, he's gonna WOW!! the NFL. I don't think any QB in the history of the NFL could do better than Carr under the same circumstances. You'll see the happy feet go away and the cannon arm deliver precision strikes when he finally has, AND FEELS LIKE HE HAS, adequate protection to make more than 2 reads per snap. He is much of a man to take the punishment he's had to take. Just hide and watch this year. Carr is gonna have a banner year. 25 TD's to 7 INT's. 68% completions for 9.3 yds per and 4500 yds passing. DD hits 1500 yds rushing and 1,000 receiving. AJ hits 1700 receiving. Gonna be a monster year for the Texan "O". Thank Dom Capers and the coaching staff for it. They chose not to mess with the OL and will have 2 starters in the Pro Bowl next year. Seth Wand and Chester Pitts. I predict 10-6 and a Wild Card berth with a Wild Card victory over Pttsburgh.
the main issue, is Carr doesn't have any Pocket Awareness and Brady does. Why does that matter, cause Brady knows he can throw the ball away and rely on his defense to hold the other team from scoring, mostly. And Brady does so. That way, he doesn't get sacked, and the drive doesn't always come to a grinding halt with an emotional sack, letting the air out of the Patriots and jacking up the emotion of the opposing D. Also Belichick is a better coach, if not the best HC in the NFL today. There are alot of factors to go into when comparing Brady and the Patriots to the Texans. But on a QB level, I would put Carr and Brady in relatively the same general area, one on one. Difference between the two, Carr has the stronger arm and less experience. Brady has the much better Pocket Awareness though, and for QB's that is an intangible that simply can't be taught.
Wolf
100% Texan
your right.. I was just counting last season... on that note.. I 'll have to go with the first thought I had in the post.. spread the ball around.. 1st season (and rightfully so) it was Miller as the security blanket... since that time ..Aj isn't open the ball usually goes to DD...teams know that.. What got me last season is that our OL was better last season than the 1st , we have more weapons now than 2002.. yet our TE's are pretty much non existant (granted they are staying in to block) ...common sense would tell anyone that with the addition of AJ and DD ... our TE's should be open more...compared to James Allen in the backfield and Bradford/Gaffney as our primary guys.wags said:
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
thegr8fan said:
I absolutely agree Carr needs to improve his pocket awareness, but wow your powers of prognositication/memory are far superior to mine (which is entirely possible) if you can break that down into an actual % of those sacks resting more on his shoulders. I am still having flashbacks to the 3rd quarter of the Bears game and almost the entire Browns game where most of the pressure was coming right up the gut. I guess I have less of a love affair with QB's than most--IMO Manning would have been reduced to pulp behind our OL. Now Staubach (I know a hated Cowboy guy but it is the game not the affiliation I am getting at) would have made something happen. Each QB has strengths to their game--Carr is tough, we don't know a whole lot more now--Manning is a scientist given sterile conditions--Staubach was a tough gamer that made the team around him better. This year Carr has to make his own image in the NFL (not to say he is on the hot seat, but it is time to define himself in some fashion).
3 years and improvement each year, with less than adequate peronnel and everyone screams for the coaches head. Capers and Co. have gone from absolutelt NOTHING to building a respected and (in some cases) feared team. IMHO, I feel that the players on the field have limited the play calling much more than the scheme itself. The Texans have been playing with a few damn good draft picks and 31 other teams cast-offs. Ease up on the whole team and let's see what the 5 YEAR PROJECT turns in to. Remember the 5 yr plan? Not many seem to. PATIENCE, GRASSHOPPER!!!!!sulli60 said:Dom Capers is the head coach and his forte was supposed to be defense, so unless he can finally start getting some sacks I would say Dom is the first to go. I'm not a huge Palmer fan, so if the defense gets it done and the offense struggles then he could be gone. Dom Caper's style has never been a flashy offense, so I don't see too much pressure on Carr compared to Capers and Palmer.
Carr has made a few bad throws, but I've seen just as many good throws dropped.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
edo783 said:
As I've stated before I think the sacks have alot to do with the difference in the td #s. Think about it sacks are drive KILLERS. How many times have yall seen a drive stall due to a sack, they take you out of a managable 2nd down and put you in 3rd and longs. just think about all the td opportunities we have missed out on due to this problem. A stable oline would do wonders for our team, not only will be able to put more points on the board, but itll will help out the defense tremedously, just do to the fact that we'll have much better field position.
wags
Veteran
Wolf said:
I think Miller got a lot of catches that first year because Carr felt comfortable with him. Carr was a rookie and probably had more confidence in Miller than anyone else. Now it's different. AJ can torch people and DD is just a better football player than Billy. If it was my choice I get the ball to the better football player, rather than the tight end/best friend.
Wolf
100% Texan
I agree with that, but it is kinda ironic that we don't utilize the TE more.. I am no offensive whiz when it comes to football, but it was my understanding that the TE is a key to beating the cover two and with that, I would think guys would rotate off of AJ more with a third option.. But of course many times I am sure the TE is staying in and blocking