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How long before we see Weeden

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Actually both Capers and Casserly said their intention was to start Banks but Carr beat him out.

And I'd say highly paid QBs are the presumptive starters throughout the league.
Bringing Banks in as the only alternative was a huge failure of it's own that is not discussed
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
I don't have an issue with a guy being brought in to be the man.

Just be right.

And if you aren't right, then have a contingency plan.

And if you don't have a contingency plan, then you better be a good enough coach to win games despite not having a qb.

Or in the Texans case, just being the best in a bad division with a patient owner.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Savage is the 2nd string quarterback. Brock would have to benched and Savage would have to get hurt before Weeden number is called.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Randall Cunningham, Scott Mitchell, Gus Frerotte, Mark Rypien, Rodney Peete, Trent Dilfer, Jim Harbaugh, Doug Pedersen, Kent Graham

according to link
Not much there. Cunningham, Mitchell, Rypien, Harbaugh and Graham all were out of the league in 2002. Pedersen had 17 career starts.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
& Fitz & Hoyer....

Take it with a grain of salt, but this QB competition thing is mainly for the fans. Nine times out of 10, the HC knows who his QB is going to be. Russell Wilson being the exception.
I don't know, man. I think there were some real competitions going on last summer between very mediocre QBs:

Paxton Lynch vs. Mark Sanchez in Denver
Sam Bradford vs. Carson Wentz in Philly
Robert Griffin III vs. Cody Kessler vs. Josh McCown in Cleveland
Geno Smith vs. Bryce Petty vs. Christian Hackenberg (and Ryan Fitzpatrick in absentee) in New York
Blaine Gabbert vs. Colin Kaepernick in San Fran

Granted, I think Seattle is special with the way that Pete Carroll runs things, as he has always stated that EVERY position is open to battle every single week. That's not normal with most head coaches.

Actually both Capers and Casserly said their intention was to start Banks but Carr beat him out.

And I'd say highly paid QBs are the presumptive starters throughout the league.
Yeah, I agree. It was not a criticism on my part, just an observation. I get giving the big investment the first chance thing. And I'm not convinced about Brock in either direction, but I am a bit concerned about some of the basic fundamentals of the position that he's been analyzed to have problems with since college. He has not shown a lot of improvement, but maybe that's due to not enough reps.

O'Brien really need to look at Brock's skillset and strengths and modify his scheme to take advantage of them, as opposed to what we perceive right now of trying to mold Brock into his system. Osweiler just does not look comfortable right now, like he's second guessing, locking onto receivers, and hears the footsteps of real and phantom pressure on every play. It's a bit disconcerting to see such uncertainty in our premium-paid QB.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Yeah although I don't recall what vets were available that offseason.
There was slim picking, that's for sure.

I had come back and looked at the situation back then several time.

The process was supposed to help the Texans as a new franchise, but it didn't.
 

klockWork

Rookie
Watching some of the Broncos games last year with Brock I see the same protection issue as this year, and some game were worse, but Brock looked more decisive and comfortable under Kubiak. I think he needs a playbook that fits his style. I thought Sam Bradford Oline had just as bad a time of protecting him than Os did but the difference was the playcalling fits his environment.

I hate to say it but I think I've seen enough of Brock to realize he's not a franchise qb. But I think under the right playbook and coaching he can be above average and win with a good defense, solid running game and special teams play. Sadly he's not surrounded by any of that. It's like deciding which of the handful of holes in a dam to plug.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
There was slim picking, that's for sure.

I had come back and looked at the situation back then several time.

The process was supposed to help the Texans as a new franchise, but it didn't.
I believe they changed the process because of the early success Jacksonville and Carolina had in their expansion draft. I could be wrong.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
I don't know, man. I think there were some real competitions going on last summer between very mediocre QBs:

Paxton Lynch vs. Mark Sanchez in Denver
Sam Bradford vs. Carson Wentz in Philly
Not sure I would call Lynch or Wentz very mediocre as 1st round rookies.

Anyway, you left out the Denver QB who won the job after barely any expectation he would compete - Simien. What gets me about that is maybe Kubiak had a more critical eye here the whole time too and avoids the media circus of calling it a competition.

I believe they changed the process because of the early success Jacksonville and Carolina had in their expansion draft. I could be wrong.
Correct - they made it much less favorable for the Texans.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Not sure I would call Lynch or Wentz very mediocre as 1st round rookies.

Anyway, you left out the Denver QB who won the job after barely any expectation he would compete - Simien. What gets me about that is maybe Kubiak had a more critical eye here the whole time too and avoids the media circus of calling it a competition.

Correct - they made it much less favorable for the Texans.
Well, I meant mediocre at the time they were competing. Any given rookie QB is mediocre until they actually play in a real game, as far as I'm concerned. Wentz looks to be the real deal, but they still didn't draft him and just give him the reins. He had to earn it.

Good point about Kubiak and Simien. And let's face it, he was right about Schaub. If he had even an average defense, I still believe he had the potential to have taken us deep into the playoffs during his 4000+ passing yard seasons.
 

Max

Veteran
But but Savage hasn't even start a game yet.
How do we know without giving him at least 2 years worth of start?
Best argument yet to counter a Brock supporter like myself that believes we need to give him more time. Smith/BOB saw something in Brock that we have yet to see in a Texans jersey and both of their fates may be tied to a pencil necked project.
 

Thorsson

Waterboy
Weeden is a much better fit for this team because of his cannon arm and the receiving talent this team has. Here's a video of Weeden throwing the ball 60 yards in the air and hitting the receiver perfectly in stride. Weeden spreading the field would certainly open up the run game.

 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Weeden is a much better fit for this team because of his cannon arm and the receiving talent this team has. Here's a video of Weeden throwing the ball 60 yards in the air and hitting the receiver perfectly in stride. Weeden spreading the field would certainly open up the run game.

Surely you can find one more thread to post in... go for the trifecta Ms. W
 

Thorsson

Waterboy
Surely you can find one more thread to post in... go for the trifecta Ms. W
No Ms. W. here; I'm not into red-headed dudes. Lol!

I just want to see some excitement to this offense, and there's nothing more exciting in football than the deep ball, especially since we rarely see a kickoff return anymore.
 

Thorsson

Waterboy
There is absolutely no way any QB other than Osweiler will see the light of day for three years unless Brock gets hurt. It's not about winning or losing, it's whether or not the front office can find a way to pad Osweiler's stats and justify paying him $tens of millions.

I hate to sound so negative, but how could the Texans just "give" the starting job to the unproven Osweiler?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
There is absolutely no way any QB other than Osweiler will see the light of day for three years unless Brock gets hurt. It's not about winning or losing, it's whether or not the front office can find a way to pad Osweiler's stats and justify paying him $tens of millions.

I hate to sound so negative, but how could the Texans just "give" the starting job to the unproven Osweiler?
Where do you get three years from?
 

Thorsson

Waterboy
There is absolutely no way any QB other than Osweiler will see the light of day for three years unless Brock gets hurt. It's not about winning or losing, it's whether or not the front office can find a way to pad Osweiler's stats and justify paying him $tens of millions.

I hate to sound so negative, but how could the Texans just "give" the starting job to the unproven Osweiler?
Where do you get three years from?
Okay, make that two years. If Brock doesn't live up to an $18 million a year man this season, the excuse will be that this was just a season for "learning the offense."
 

gafftop

All Pro
There is absolutely no way any QB other than Osweiler will see the light of day for three years unless Brock gets hurt. It's not about winning or losing, it's whether or not the front office can find a way to pad Osweiler's stats and justify paying him $tens of millions.

I hate to sound so negative, but how could the Texans just "give" the starting job to the unproven Osweiler?


Okay, make that two years. If Brock doesn't live up to an $18 million a year man this season, the excuse will be that this was just a season for "learning the offense."
Gotta disagree. He set a record today. Not a good one.
 

Thorsson

Waterboy
The sad thing is that the o-line did a decent job of protecting Osweiler today; not one sack. With that said, however, can you imagine Osweiler behind the Browns 0-line? OMG! He'd be turned into a 6'8" pretzel before he could pad his stats!
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The sad thing is that the o-line did a decent job of protecting Osweiler today; not one sack. With that said, however, can you imagine Osweiler behind the Browns 0-line? OMG! He'd be turned into a 6'8" pretzel before he could pad his stats!

miraculously right? out of nowhere facing the league sack leading team, these guys out of nowhere provided decent protection.

& our two running backs combined for 120 yards rushing. both over 5 ypc.

I'm not saying we're sending anyone to the probowl, but that OL is doing their job. (I also saw DBrown getting on XSF a couple of times for screwing up. Good to have that kind of leadership on the field)
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
miraculously right? out of nowhere facing the league sack leading team, these guys out of nowhere provided decent protection.

& our two running backs combined for 120 yards rushing. both over 5 ypc.

I'm not saying we're sending anyone to the probowl, but that OL is doing their job. (I also saw DBrown getting on XSF a couple of times for screwing up. Good to have that kind of leadership on the field)

Good Shaub would have been sacked at least 5 times... j/s
 

bigmck

Rookie
Yeah, that's kind of my gut feeling, as well. They already knew what they had in Savage when they signed Brock.

They should be spending a draft pick every year, even late round, just to spin the wheel. Don't stop until they find The Man, because really nothing else matters until you have a reliably good QB.

Maybe Brock just needs some patience for the learning curve. Not comparing them as players, but Warren Moon's first three seasons with the Oilers was pretty bad. He threw more INTs every year than TDs. Nobody had a sense of what he would eventually become at that point.
He can't hit an open man in the flat. He misses too many passes for me. The learning curve does not matter if he can't throw straight.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
He can't hit an open man in the flat. He misses too many passes for me. The learning curve does not matter if he can't throw straight.
if the defense can't get off the field, it don't matter how the qb plays
 

gafftop

All Pro
At some point very soon I think even this brain trust realizes they need to try something else and even though it confirms that they made a huge mistake they are going to let Savage play. They will say that Brock just needs a break or is injured or something. Savage willl prove to be slightly better than Brock but he will get hurt and either they come back with Brock or they give Weeden a chance. I would agree with most of you that come hell or high water Brock is in but he is going downhill fast. He is not getting better. To salvage any benefit of him ever becoming anything I think they pull him. He is now having issues with the mechanics of just throwing and accurate pass.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
At some point very soon I think even this brain trust realizes they need to try something else and even though it confirms that they made a huge mistake they are going to let Savage play. They will say that Brock just needs a break or is injured or something. Savage willl prove to be slightly better than Brock but he will get hurt and either they come back with Brock or they give Weeden a chance. I would agree with most of you that come hell or high water Brock is in but he is going downhill fast. He is not getting better. To salvage any benefit of him ever becoming anything I think they pull him. He is now having issues with the mechanics of just throwing and accurate pass.
I don't think O'b would pull a QB while the team is still in the division hunt. I know he's not going to do it while we're leading the division.

I still believe they signed Osweiler because of the toughness he showed playing the league's best down the stretch... Chiefs, Bengals, Steelers. Even if they didn't win the game.

He's young, I'm sure they expected the wild up & downs you "normally" get from young QBs.

Now that we're past the best of the best NFL defenses, maybe we'll see Osweiler progress from week to week, instead of seeing him improve against a bad team, struggle against a good team, improve against a bad team.. etc.. etc..
 
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gafftop

All Pro
I don't think O'b would pull a QB while the team is still in the division hunt. I know he's not going to do it while we're leading the division.

I still believe they signed Osweiler because of the toughness he showed playing the league's best down the stretch... Chiefs, Bengals, Steelers. Even if they didn't win the game.

He's young, I'm sure they expected the wild up & downs you "normally" get from young QBs.

Now that we're past the best of the best NFL defenses, maybe we'll see Osweiler progress from week to week, instead of seeing him improve against a bad team, struggle against a good team, improve against a bad team.. etc.. etc..
Hope he does get better which should not be very difficult seeing that he is historically bad. His mechanics/accuracy seem to have deteriorated since the beginning of the season. He has a very slow/long release and I don't see that changing until the off season at best. He doesn't seem to work through progressions. Combination of those factors plus poor offensive plan will make it difficult.
I think at some point you need to see what you have in Savage even though I don't think he is the answer. Put him in and at least you will see what Brock contributes to this train wreck.
 

Grams

Veteran
I just wonder if maybe the rumors are true about OB not having a say in the acquisition of Brock. And instead of fitting the offense to the QB like he did in the past for Keenum, Yates and Weeden so they could be successful, he is just hanging Brock out to dry to prove a point.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I just wonder if maybe the rumors are true about OB not having a say in the acquisition of Brock. And instead of fitting the offense to the QB like he did in the past for Keenum, Yates and Weeden so they could be successful, he is just hanging Brock out to dry to prove a point.
If that's the case he's even more of an idiot than I think he is. It's his job that's on the line.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I just wonder if maybe the rumors are true about OB not having a say in the acquisition of Brock. And instead of fitting the offense to the QB like he did in the past for Keenum, Yates and Weeden so they could be successful, he is just hanging Brock out to dry to prove a point.
I've seen it reported and mentioned several times on talk radio (by hosts, not callers) that picking up Brock was a decision by "upper management". And it is always included that O'Brien did not get to interview him due to FA rules.

I thought it was kind of bizarre situation, but I'm starting to believe it when you see an offensive HC completely out of sync with his high priced QB.

This offense looked better with Fitz, Hoyer, and Keenum under center. I have yet to see a game where Brock has convinced me that he's the right man for the job (and I've been holding out hope for the guy).

Heck, if anything, I'm starting to think the exact opposite. His forward fumble without being touched last night was terrible, and truly something you cannot un-witness. That was pure bush league.
 


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