Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

Houston Texans select 4th round KeKe Coutee WR Texas Tech

badboy

Hall of Fame
Maybe, but Coutee needs to put on his big boy pants and get with it.
True however telling someone to suck it up doesn't necessarily lead to it's being done. This is where coaching leadership comes into play. Carrot or the stick what is going to work with this particular player?
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
True however telling someone to suck it up doesn't necessarily lead to it's being done. This is where coaching leadership comes into play. Carrot or the stick what is going to work with this particular player?
Absolutely. I have guys at work I have to treat like that. He could be a huge asset to the team right now, especially with Fuller out. Wish we knew what was going on.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was

Not sure im buying this. Seems like just more organizational control. NO WAY you can tell me that the JAGS that are in there right now with Will Fuller out with injury are better options than Coutee.
 

welsh texan

All Pro

Not sure im buying this. Seems like just more organizational control. NO WAY you can tell me that the JAGS that are in there right now with Will Fuller out with injury are better options than Coutee.
Doesnt make any sense.

This guy had Wes Welker teaching him to play slot receiver in the Patriots offense until the offseason. I wonder if that is behind his regression.

OB has been operating a blame culture so far this season though, and that drop was a game killer.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Doesnt make any sense.

This guy had Wes Welker teaching him to play slot receiver in the Patriots offense until the offseason. I wonder if that is behind his regression.

OB has been operating a blame culture so far this season though, and that drop was a game killer.
They aren't running the Pats offense anymore. The offense is different and Coutee is behind the learning curve and needs to sharpen his route running skills. Seems like Coutee is going to have to really pay attention to detail or get left behind. This is called accountability and Texans fans may not recognize this. The Texans org is changing, for the better. IMHO and fans aren't used to this. This is the true way the Pats org works. Do your job right and do it right every time or you wont see the field much.
 

Earl34

Rookie
Doesnt make any sense.

This guy had Wes Welker teaching him to play slot receiver in the Patriots offense until the offseason. I wonder if that is behind his regression.

OB has been operating a blame culture so far this season though, and that drop was a game killer.
I was surprised to see Welker move on. That guy was targeted over 900 times and caught over 7000 yards in the Patriots' offense. If there is anyone on the planet who knows how to play the slot, it's Welker. When you consider how slot WRs have underperformed under O'Brien, I thought Welker could really help the slot WRs. With that said. Regardless of offense or scheme, the NFL WR route tree is the same. However, where a college offense might have 4-5 routes, NFL offenses can have as few as 9 or as many as 20 routes.

Also, another nuance is how the routes are being executed by the players in those offenses. Certain systems want you to run the routes at certain depths or make on the fly adjustments based on the coverage. If the WRs are slow turning their heads around, rounding off their routes, running routes at the incorrect depth or making mistakes and running the wrong routes it can quickly derail your offense. I'm always concerned about WRs coming from these Air Raid type college offenses. You would think they would know how to run precise routes, but many times, they are simply running slants, posts, outs and curls in college.

Maybe Welker was able to spend more time with Coutee and translate the routes to something similar at Texas Tech. I don't know. All I know is it seems he has regressed from last year and now finds himself in a doghouse with no opening.

 
Last edited:

OzzO

.. and then?
Well, there ya go.

.....In Week 7, the Texans had possession of the football with under two minutes left to play against the Indianapolis Colts, who held a seven-point lead. Deshaun Watson and Co. were moving towards midfield, when Coutee dropped an easy catch, which was intercepted by Darius Leonard. From there, the Colts took a knee and snapped the Texans' two-game win streak. On Tuesday, Texans head coach Bill O'Brien explained that Coutee's costly drop is not the only reason he has spent an extended amount of time on the bench, but it's also because he's committed some mental mistakes as well....
CBS Sports
 

welsh texan

All Pro
Could be another factor that the amount of time he spent in the trainer's room last season gave him extra time to assimilate those details, and perhaps masked some work ethic deficiencies.

I hope he makes it back because Carter is JAG where Coutee can clean up when Hop/Fuller/Stills are taking all the defensive attention.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
How many times Hyde going to fumble before he's held accountable?
He fumbled one time last game.

How many times has he fumbled? He hasn't had a reputation as a fumbler.

I certainly dont see how you can equate Hyde to Coutee.

I guess you're trying to be contrarian to stimulate conversation.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
He fumbled one time last game.

How many times has he fumbled? He hasn't had a reputation as a fumbler.

I certainly dont see how you can equate Hyde to Coutee.

I guess you're trying to be contrarian to stimulate conversation.
4 fumbles in 2019.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
He fumbled one time last game.

How many times has he fumbled? He hasn't had a reputation as a fumbler.

I certainly dont see how you can equate Hyde to Coutee.

I guess you're trying to be contrarian to stimulate conversation.
I can understand after the first or 2nd fumble getting behind your guy, putting him back on the field.

But next time, he needs to be benched if only for a series.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I can understand after the first or 2nd fumble getting behind your guy, putting him back on the field.

But next time, he needs to be benched if only for a series.
Like I said, he isn't a fumbler and if it becomes an issue I'm sure he will be seeing the field less.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
He fumbled one time last game.

How many times has he fumbled? He hasn't had a reputation as a fumbler.

I certainly dont see how you can equate Hyde to Coutee.

I guess you're trying to be contrarian to stimulate conversation.
Chris Carson & Nick Chubb. That's the entire list of RBs who have had more fumbles lost than Carlos Hyde this season. There are several RBs tied with Hyde at 2.

Chris Carson - the ONLY RB with more fumbles than Hyde this season at 5. Hyde is all alone at #2 among RBs with 4.

I don't care about his "reputation", I care about results this year. I'm not ready to bench Hyde over it, but I'm also not ready to crucify Coutee over a few drops. THAT was the point of this exercise.

So, tell me who's trying to be contrarian again? :thinking:
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Chris Carson & Nick Chubb. That's the entire list of RBs who have had more fumbles lost than Carlos Hyde this season. There are several RBs tied with Hyde at 2.

Chris Carson - the ONLY RB with more fumbles than Hyde this season at 5. Hyde is all alone at #2 among RBs with 4.

I don't care about his "reputation", I care about results this year. I'm not ready to bench Hyde over it, but I'm also not ready to crucify Coutee over a few drops. THAT was the point of this exercise.

So, tell me who's trying to be contrarian again? :thinking:
He has been benched for a few series after fumbling. How long do you want him to be benched?

These are 2 totally different situations, Hyde has fumbled a few times. Coutee has to learn the offense and how to run routes properly.

Hyde almost ran for 200 yds last week and fumbled once on a weird play, that means he's fumbled 3 other times in 9 games yet you want to bench him and compared his situation to Coutee's. SMH. Does Hyde need to improve his ball security? Sure he does, but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
He has been benched for a few series after fumbling. How long do you want him to be benched?

These are 2 totally different situations, Hyde has fumbled a few times. Coutee has to learn the offense and how to run routes properly.

Hyde almost ran for 200 yds last week and fumbled once on a weird play, that means he's fumbled 3 other times in 9 games yet you want to bench him and compared his situation to Coutee's. SMH. Does Hyde need to improve his ball security? Sure he does, but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.
What part of "I'm not prepared to bench Hyde over it" are you not understanding?

You're right, they are two different situations.

Hyde is currently the SECOND WORST RB in the entire NFL at fumbles in 2019. That's not opinion, it's solid, documented fact. My first reaction to this stat is "holy crap", not downplaying it by referring to it as "a few times".

Can you point to Coutee being ranked as poorly in drops? (Either as a total or percentage of targets?) No? If not, you're just parroting the public releases by the Texans staff as to why Coutee has found himself in a much deeper, darker doghouse than Hyde.

My argument is that his benching for games-at-a-time simply doesn't appear justified based on what we've seen on the field. It reeks of O'Brien power play, and how "accountability" scales with how much O'Brien values you and your position.

Hell, maybe Coutee does deserve the benching. It just doesn't appear that he's done anything egregious enough on the field to justify the length involved.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
We'll never know the full extent of why....not sure why it matters though considering that Stills has stepped in nicely and in his short time here has been as consistent or more consistent than Coutee has ever been in his short career.

For the record i'm rooting for the kid, but you know how WR's are...divas. & when they aren't getting the ball enough, you start seeing them sulking & pouting. He's probably of the opinion he should be getting the ball more when he is on the field..But Stills has cut into that. We've also seen DW4 get that immediate chemistry with Stills too. Could just be a trust issue from DW4's side.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
He has been benched for a few series after fumbling. How long do you want him to be benched?

These are 2 totally different situations, Hyde has fumbled a few times. Coutee has to learn the offense and how to run routes properly.

Hyde almost ran for 200 yds last week and fumbled once on a weird play, that means he's fumbled 3 other times in 9 games yet you want to bench him and compared his situation to Coutee's. SMH. Does Hyde need to improve his ball security? Sure he does, but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.
Aaron Wilson‏ @AaronWilson_NFL[/USER] 1d1 day ago

Bill O'Brien basically attributed Keke Coutee not playing to attention to detail, not effort, and said he hasn't broken any team rules, expects to involve him going forward. "He's a great guy."
Fumble was a small portion of the big picture. "Detail" refers to route running. Early on, Plays for Watson were generally happening over longer time.............recently, with the change to quicker shorter passes, Coutee has been taxed with having to make quick, sharp and precise routes..............the slower developing plays contributed to masking Coutee's deficiencies...........later when the stop watch began being set, there was no margins of error left to make.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
No he hasn't. After the fumble he's been the first RB to touch the ball on our next drive.
In that game yes in other games.

Are you telling me Hyde's never been benched even for a series you would be wrong. I think it was against Carolina where he dropped a pass that he got benched. He also has been benched a few times for miss blitzers. Hyde is who he is, a tough hard nosed runner with a good burst, who while he can catch passes but I wouldn't say he's good at it and he makes too many mental errors in pass pro, but he's a solid RB that if used right can be very successful.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
In that game yes in other games.

Are you telling me Hyde's never been benched even for a series you would be wrong. I think it was against Carolina where he dropped a pass that he got benched. He also has been benched a few times for miss blitzers. Hyde is who he is, a tough hard nosed runner with a good burst, who while he can catch passes but I wouldn't say he's good at it and he makes too many mental errors in pass pro, but he's a solid RB that if used right can be very successful.
Um...Duke Johnson did miss a few blockers early in the season, not Hyde.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
What part of "I'm not prepared to bench Hyde over it" are you not understanding?

You're right, they are two different situations.

Hyde is currently the SECOND WORST RB in the entire NFL at fumbles in 2019. That's not opinion, it's solid, documented fact. My first reaction to this stat is "holy crap", not downplaying it by referring to it as "a few times".

Can you point to Coutee being ranked as poorly in drops? (Either as a total or percentage of targets?) No? If not, you're just parroting the public releases by the Texans staff as to why Coutee has found himself in a much deeper, darker doghouse than Hyde.

My argument is that his benching for games-at-a-time simply doesn't appear justified based on what we've seen on the field. It reeks of O'Brien power play, and how "accountability" scales with how much O'Brien values you and your position.

Hell, maybe Coutee does deserve the benching. It just doesn't appear that he's done anything egregious enough on the field to justify the length involved.
Um...it's 4 fumbles, 2 lost. You act like it is 10. Tied for 2nd. I will take his 2 fumbles lost and his production for the season. Geez.....

Coutee drop the pass which landed in the Colts LB's hand. That and some other things got him benched. He will get his chance again after the bye.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Fumble was a small portion of the big picture. "Detail" refers to route running. Early on, Plays for Watson were generally happening over longer time.............recently, with the change to quicker shorter passes, Coutee has been taxed with having to make quick, sharp and precise routes..............the slower developing plays contributed to masking Coutee's deficiencies...........later when the stop watch began being set, there was no margins of error left to make.
I pointed this out in another thread when folks were claiming there weren’t any shorter routes for DW4 to throw to. Coutee shaking and baking at the top of a quick slant and still not getting open quick enough..He’s on the field for 1 reason, for his quickness in short space and routes. If he can’t get open in those situations, he’s of no worth to this offense
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
Um...it's 4 fumbles, 2 lost. You act like it is 10. Tied for 2nd. I will take his 2 fumbles lost and his production for the season. Geez.....

Coutee drop the pass which landed in the Colts LB's hand. That and some other things got him benched. He will get his chance again after the bye.
Geez yourself. I act like Hyde's fumbles are much more "statistically significant" than Coutee's drops. Like the worst fumble % for a RB in Texans history. Here's the list to compare for yourself Looks silly to argue otherwise. Never said I wouldn't take Hyde's production or would bench either one of them for miscues. IMHO, the Texans aren't deep enough to play "doghouse" mid-season with players who can contribute. I do hope to see him after the bye.

We'll never know the full extent of why....not sure why it matters though considering that Stills has stepped in nicely and in his short time here has been as consistent or more consistent than Coutee has ever been in his short career.
Stills > Coutee, no question about that. I'd expect a 101-game guy to far more consistent than a 12 game guy. Stills has been an excellent pickup, but that's not who they're currently benching Coutee for. We had Carter out there in London with Coutee on the bench. I've no doubt Coutee could've put up as stellar a performance (1 catch for 8 yds). At least he wasn't inactive for the game and was available if needed.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Stills > Coutee, no question about that. I'd expect a 101-game guy to far more consistent than a 12 game guy. Stills has been an excellent pickup, but that's not who they're currently benching Coutee for. We had Carter out there in London with Coutee on the bench. I've no doubt Coutee could've put up as stellar a performance (1 catch for 8 yds). At least he wasn't inactive for the game and was available if needed.
Sure, but lets be real here, Coutee was the 3rd guy before Stills arrived and now that Stills has shown to be better than him, has what appears to be more chemistry with DW4 than him that kicks Coutee down the depth chart even further. So as the 3rd option he wasn't going to see that many balls, now that he's 4th, he's really not going to see that many...Gotta be hard for him to stay locked in & pay attention to the "details" and just do what the offense needs him to do/be just so we can be consistent on the offensive side of the ball when you know this is the case..But its all part of being a professional, & he as a young player needs to learn that. & just as you're confident that Coutee could put up Carter's killer performance in London, i'm equally confident that Carter could produce what Coutee has been averaging throughout his career thus far.....which is around 3-4 receptions and 40-50 ypg.

That's why they can go to a guy like a Deandre Carter or Steven Mitchell in that spot...b/c those guys are just happy to be getting on the field & not necessarily tripping about their place on the depth chart or the number of targets they get.

Not saying this is the case with why Coutee is in the doghouse........but it could be.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So as the 3rd option he wasn't going to see that many balls, now that he's 4th, he's really not going to see that many...
Except Fuller was out. Moves QT up to #3. Regardless, he's been a better option than Carter & Mitchell (who screwed up on back to back plays).

But really, I'm more concerned with two weeks of doghouse treatment. 7 weeks, screwing up, pssh... just keep sending him out there.

7 weeks & neither Carter or Mitchell are ready to contribute. 7 weeks & we don't have a better option than the guy who can't remember what he's supposed to do.

& no, I don't want to bench Hyde. I just don't think we need to be all, "Finally.... accountability!!!!!"

That's not what's going on here.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Except Fuller was out. Moves QT up to #3. Regardless, he's been a better option than Carter & Mitchell (who screwed up on back to back plays).

But really, I'm more concerned with two weeks of doghouse treatment. 7 weeks, screwing up, pssh... just keep sending him out there.

7 weeks & neither Carter or Mitchell are ready to contribute. 7 weeks & we don't have a better option than the guy who can't remember what he's supposed to do.

& no, I don't want to bench Hyde. I just don't think we need to be all, "Finally.... accountability!!!!!"

That's not what's going on here.
Ask Colvin about accountability here.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Well, there ya go.

.....In Week 7, the Texans had possession of the football with under two minutes left to play against the Indianapolis Colts, who held a seven-point lead. Deshaun Watson and Co. were moving towards midfield, when Coutee dropped an easy catch, which was intercepted by Darius Leonard. From there, the Colts took a knee and snapped the Texans' two-game win streak. On Tuesday, Texans head coach Bill O'Brien explained that Coutee's costly drop is not the only reason he has spent an extended amount of time on the bench, but it's also because he's committed some mental mistakes as well....
CBS Sports
Makes me wonder how many of those situations where we saw 2 receivers in close proximity outside the hashmarks are "mental mistakes" - Or did OB really call that ?

The number of times we've seen that , with any combination of pass catchers , would be an awful lot of mistakes.
 

austins23

Hall of Fame
He was so bad they really had no choice … in such a critical position too.

Ugh , that one play cost them that Aints game.
That loss/play still bothers me. ONE play could be the difference in a 1/2 seed or 4,5, or 6 seed. Of course the season could have turned out differently but, you know what I mean.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
That loss/play still bothers me. ONE play could be the difference in a 1/2 seed or 4,5, or 6 seed. Of course the season could have turned out differently but, you know what I mean.

Had they won that one , they'd be 7-2 and have a grip on the 2 seed …. but even then , the next two games would go a long way in deciding their fate. They gotta beat both the Ravens and Dolts. Do that and you've got a stranglehold on the #2.

Pats game is pretty meaningless in that fight. You'd have the tie breaker over the Ravens ...and the tie breaker Vs the Dolts in common opponents - they lost to the Raiders and Chargers.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
In that game yes in other games.

Are you telling me Hyde's never been benched even for a series you would be wrong. I think it was against Carolina where he dropped a pass that he got benched. He also has been benched a few times for miss blitzers. Hyde is who he is, a tough hard nosed runner with a good burst, who while he can catch passes but I wouldn't say he's good at it and he makes too many mental errors in pass pro, but he's a solid RB that if used right can be very successful.

He was not benched. He was brought to the bench for rest. You do realize they're using both backs like a two headed monster approach.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I pointed this out in another thread when folks were claiming there weren’t any shorter routes for DW4 to throw to. Coutee shaking and baking at the top of a quick slant and still not getting open quick enough..He’s on the field for 1 reason, for his quickness in short space and routes. If he can’t get open in those situations, he’s of no worth to this offense

You continue to miss the point. Yes they threw a FEW short route concepts in there early on. But now they're running A LOT more of those type of plays.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You continue to miss the point. Yes they threw a FEW short route concepts in there early on. But now they're running A LOT more of those type of plays.
Which isn't the EP system.

They may or may not be running BOB's system.

They damn sure aren't running the EP system. Does BOB's system have some of the EP concepts in it? Yes

Let's get back to talking about what's wrong with Coutee in the Coutee thread.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You continue to miss the point. Yes they threw a FEW short route concepts in there early on. But now they're running A LOT more of those type of plays.
Regardless of how many there were, they've been there all along & those routes are where Coutee was supposed to do his damage & thrive. Instead he's been damn near invisible.........when he's been on the field that is. To compensate, BoB adjusted his offense to divert more of these short and outlet throws for DW4 to the backs & TE's...which is why Duke has scored 3 TDs in the last 3 games and why Fells and Akins have all of sudden come on.

At some point though, teams will hone in on that RPO play (NE) and Coutee will be called on to do what he's supposed to be good at. Right now though....
 


Top