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Houston as a dstination for FA's

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Obviously Houston isn't a FA destination.

What are you guys thoughts on what can be done to make the Texans org an attractive place for FA's to want to play for and why dont they currently want to play in Houston?

Thoughts
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I think this is really over-blown. It's not a one-way street. Players that the Texans (the FO, not the fans) want, have to want to come here at value to both. Thank the LORD ALMIGHTY that fan's don't run the Texans FO
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I think this is really over-blown. It's not a one-way street. Players that the Texans (the FO, not the fans) want, have to want to come here at value to both. Thank the LORD ALMIGHTY that fan's don't run the Texans FO
Why,

The Texans org hasn't been sucessful, so what would it really matter if fans ran the org. I could make a case fans could've done a better job.

BTW, the question I asked is why dont FA's want to come here? You know, the ones they FO says they really want but finished 2nd as a choice for FA's.

You didn't answer that question.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
Looks like we set a "competative" contract value on every player and will not deviate no matter what (nate s being the only real exception that comes to mind) So if we're not going to outbid other teams, we need something to lure in free agents.

As much as I and others have despised the free agent coma, it does ultimately take two to tango.

What do we have to offer? Houston is no great vacation mecca. This is an average location with average owners, coaching, talent ,and history. Couple that with questions about ob's job security. He's well past the honeymoon stage ,and 1 subpar season away from being gone.

We have no income tax and that's really the only major perk I can think of that should appeal to every free agent.

I don't know if it's a contributing factor, but I can't help but wonder outloud if the McNair v. Duane Brown fiasco is completely forgotten. Certainly didn't paint a pretty picture.

All that aside, there is something I think a lot of us overlook: our sales team. I'm not talking about merchandise. I'm talking about the guys who meet a prospective free agent at the airport, walk him around the facility, wine and dine him, and give him our pitch on why he should come here. Make no mistake, every team does it, but they're not all equal in this regard. Is our pitch and personnel just not good at it? Do we have a guy in that process that can sale ice to an eskimo?

We can pick all the right talent in free agency and offer solid contracts, but if we can't convince them why they belong here none of it means sh*t.

Obviously, this isn't something we read about often so I have no real idea if this is even the issue - but I wonder.

As it stands now, we better have a good draft.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Looks like we set a "competative" contract value on every player and will not deviate no matter what (nate s being the only real exception that comes to mind) So if we're not going to outbid other teams, we need something to lure in free agents.

As much as I and others have despised the free agent coma, it does ultimately take two to tango.

What do we have to offer? Houston is no great vacation mecca. This is an average location with average owners, coaching, talent ,and history. Couple that with questions about ob's job security. He's well past the honeymoon stage ,and 1 subpar season away from being gone.

We have no income tax and that's really the only major perk I can think of that should appeal to every free agent.

I don't know if it's a contributing factor, but I can't help but wonder outloud if the McNair v. Duane Brown fiasco is completely forgotten. Certainly didn't paint a pretty picture.

All that aside, there is something I think a lot of us overlook: our sales team. I'm not talking about merchandise. I'm talking about the guys who meet a prospective free agent at the airport, walk him around the facility, wine and dine him, and give him our pitch on why he should come here. Make no mistake, every team does it, but they're not all equal in this regard. Is our pitch and personnel just not good at it? Do we have a guy in that process that can sale ice to an eskimo?

We can pick all the right talent in free agency and offer solid contracts, but if we can't convince them why they belong here none of it means sh*t.

Obviously, this isn't something we read about often so I have no real idea if this is even the issue - but I wonder.

As it stands now, we better have a good draft.
I think you might be on to something.

This is the kind of discussion I'm hoping this thread spurs.
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
The perception that I have been able to gather is that players think Houston as a city is cool enough, the Texans administration and facilities are professional enough, and there is nothing "wrong" with coaching etc...The problem is just as there is "nothing wrong " or you could "do worse than the Texans" there is nothing about the organization that excites anyone either... name. color scheme, overall history, the true chance at being great etc. that excites someone beyond the obvious motivators: money. playing time, the possibility of winning,..Not an accident that Houston is rarely just eliminated, but seemingly doesn't have players jumping at the chance to play for the Texans.

to answer what needs to change: becoming a consistent winner. The corporate feel and structure of the Texans comes from the McNairs. Nothing that I have seen from Cal indicates that he has the willingness nor personality to change the methodology. the fact we have seen repeatedly that BOB and Gaine have talked team building and philosophy over the last two off-seasons leads me to believe that they are safe for a good while. the only thing that can change is on the field success.
 

TripleTap

Dead Wood
Houston is now and has always been a 3rd or 4th tier NFL operation, save perhaps in the old AFL time. No one seems to take Houston seriously, even when it's putting in a (rare?) playoff season. The cowboys ARE Texas for the NFL (I know, I hate this, too, have always hated it, and I've been following Houston AFL/NFL teams since Jeppesen Stadium days). The only way I see to change the dynamic is to hire big name synonymous with excellent NFL football head coach and GM, and rebuild the franchise with those folks in control. Assuming they deliver on the promise the Texans could become the Steelers equivalent, a serious NFL football team. Right now, the Texans are almost a joke in the league, a constant non-finisher, a 3rd runner up, a backwater team with little prospect of making a run at the big teams. And that is why nobody wants to come here. We're a semi-pro boxer who gets beat down every time it counts.
 

KA4Texan

Clueless Wonder
Contributor's Club
Almost? I'd say they ARE a joke in the NFL

Even after a 9 w streak and a 11-5 season, several AFCs champs.... nobody takes us seriously or fears us if they see us coming in the playoffs, unless they are the Bengals.

We ARE the Rodney Dangerfield of the NFL.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Teams want players who play, make plays, & help you win.

Players want teams who put them in position to win.

However, FA doesn't always have players that are exceptionally good. Desperate teams (like the Giants & Raiders) will panic & drastically overpay average players. Do that too many times & we'll be the team Kubiak took over again. Signing players looking for their last big paycheck. Never live up to said contract but are safe as long as the guaranteed money makes it prohibitive to cut them.

The fact that the Texans substantially bid on Solder, Trent Brown, & signed Kalil more than anyone believe he warrants, suggest the Texans opinion of these guys are much higher than mine.

Still, just like players need to hit on the risks they take substantially more often than not to make them desirable, teams need to hit substantially more often than not on organizational decisions to become a FA destination.

But like their isn't always a market of worthy FAs, there isn't always destination teams bidding for your services. So they go to the highest bidder.

My position, as far as Houston not being a FA destination is just that. Unless we overbid the other guy, we won't get him. Hopefully the "moves" we've made the last two seasons will hit & we'll continue to hit on our organizational decisions in the future. & we'll be a team that could pass on a talent like Randy Moss one year, still win, then pick him up & revive his career three years later when nobody wants him.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I know it's more too it but again I will say a winning culture will attract big free agents. The Rockets and Astros can attest to that.

A solid game plan can help you bring in top notch free agents as well. Right now the Texans do not have that in place IMO. (Offense). Now on defense Coach RC knows exactly what he wants to do. That's why he's able to acquire talent either through the draft or free agency.
 

bigmck

Rookie
So far the only reasons for Not being a good destination is reputation. The things that matter are not "Well they have been rotten for a long time and they have never won". -- The players care about one thing, Money. Texas has no state income tax and prices are low here. You can get twice the house than up north. It is a warm weather city, that also is a plus. I just don't see that it is a bad place to play.
 
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Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Texans ownership isn't that great, the folks who run the football operations aren't either, and from there on down to the last person on the coaching staff it's all the same. This isn't unlike other teams, FAs know this. And who knows what's goes through FAs heads when testing the waters, but you can be sure if they see green their eyes light up. Other than that, I'm not sure how we're a whole lot different in FA eyes that a lot of other teams.

I mean, why on earth would you want to go to Arizona unless it's for the money? But it happens.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Texans ownership isn't that great, the folks who run the football operations aren't either, and from there on down to the last person on the coaching staff it's all the same. This isn't unlike other teams, FAs know this. And who knows what's goes through FAs heads when testing the waters, but you can be sure if they see green their eyes light up. Other than that, I'm not sure how we're a whole lot different in FA eyes that a lot of other teams.

I mean, why on earth would you want to go to Arizona unless it's for the money? But it happens.
U love Arizona

Not for every player but for most it comes down to money.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Obviously Houston isn't a FA destination.

What are you guys thoughts on what can be done to make the Texans org an attractive place for FA's to want to play for and why dont they currently want to play in Houston?

Thoughts
Do you mean Houston? Or the Texans? And please name the FAs we lost out on that we gave similar contracts to? The only person I can think of is Nate Solder.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Do you mean Houston? Or the Texans? And please name the FAs we lost out on that we gave similar contracts to? The only person I can think of is Nate Solder.
Do those that took less money to come count?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Do you mean Houston? Or the Texans? And please name the FAs we lost out on that we gave similar contracts to? The only person I can think of is Nate Solder.
Both

The reason I asked is because they've lost out 2 yrs in a row.

Other than JoJo, Os the Texans have never even tried to bring in top FA's.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Other than JoJo, Os the Texans have never even tried to bring in top FA's.
That's not necessarily a bad thing for a very young franchise

And they have tried... just not to the over-pay level YOU want
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Then what's the point of the thread? The Texans simply haven't valued players as highly as other teams. All it takes is one team being stupid, trying to burn cap, not being in position to draft, etc. to get outbid with dumb money.
Why even post in this thread.

We've had some great points made in this thread.

Unfortunately this isn't one of them.

Dumb $$$$ what's dumb $$$$? Is dumb $$$$ defined by the Texans org or is it defined by what the Texans are willing to pay? Even though he's not a FA Clowney wants to get paid like Mack and after seein Lawrence contract somebody's going o pay Clowney and it's probably not going to be the Texans.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
That's not necessarily a bad thing for a very young franchise

And they have tried... just not to the over-pay level YOU want
It is for an org that is trying to win a championship.

Why do think it's not a bad thing?

You would think the McNair's $$$$ is some of the members $$$$ when you look at some of the posts around here. I know that they tried and failed, the point of tis thread is why have they failed and what can be done to change the perception of the Texans org and the city in general.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
It is for an org that is trying to win a championship.

Why do think it's not a bad thing?

You would think the McNair's $$$$ is some of the members $$$$ when you look at some of the posts around here. I know that they tried and failed, the point of tis thread is why have they failed and what can be done to change the perception of the Texans org and the city in general.
Thanks to Asserly and Smith they've never built a foundation so that 1 or 2 FA pieces can make the difference. You can't need 15 or 20 FA signings and reach the goal you want in the salary cap era
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Other than JoJo, Os the Texans have never even tried to bring in top FA's.
This is revisionist BS and lists have been provided several times before only for you to ignore them. Not every year has stars as FAs but Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Antonio Smith, Daniel Manning, JJo, etc. were near or top of their free agent class at their positions

You ignore them and then laud Isaiah friggin Crowell & Mr. 1300 yds in 5 years Ryan Grant signings when done by someone else.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
This is revisionist BS and lists have been provided several times before only for you to ignore them. Not every year has stars as FAs but Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Antonio Smith, Daniel Manning, JJo, etc. were near or top of their free agent class at their positions

You ignore them and then laud Isaiah friggin Crowell & Mr. 1300 yds in 5 years Ryan Grant signings when done by someone else.
Over a 15 years ago

My memory is failing, or it's just been awhile. Thanks for proving my point.

Let's get back to how this situation can be changed and FA's want to come to Houston instead of rehashing old news from the 1st year the Texans we're in business.

What do you think the answer is to change the Texans or from bridesmaid status to bride status?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Thanks to Asserly and Smith they've never built a foundation so that 1 or 2 FA pieces can make the difference. You can't need 15 or 20 FA signings and reach the goal you want in the salary cap era
Agreed

How do you figure out a way to get to where you are talking about and how long do you think it will take? Do you think at that point Cletus will step up with checkbook in hand? In the meantime they need to figure out how make the Texans org as appealing as possible to FA's, because right now they're not very appealing at all to prospective FA's.

I would say there's a pretty good foundation in place now, to the point that adding a couple of pieces in fa and nailing the draft puts you in contender status.

If they truly want to build thru the draft they should trade Watt/Clowney etc... For more draft ammo like the Raiders did last yr. You might take a step back but that's what needs to be done if they're wanting to be a draft only team. Accumulate picks. I could get on board with this strategy. Right now they're stuck in the middle. Which will lead to more mediocrity.
 
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infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Over a 15 years ago

My memory is failing, or it's just been awhile. Thanks for proving my point.

Let's get back to how this situation can be changed and FA's want to come to Houston instead of rehashing old news from the 1st year the Texans we're in business.

What do you think the answer is to change the Texans or from bridesmaid status to bride status?
JJo, Manning, Miller, Oz were not 15 years ago.

I disagree with your premise that FAs don't want to play for the Texans.

But how to get better...

I don't like hunting the great white whale with rare exception. Let other teams blow money on the tip of the iceberg FAs. Go aggressively after the next level down for players who fit & will improve the team and then coach them well. Dumb to move Allen. Dumb to draft X, shuffle him around and then refuse to flip him for Allen. Dumb to bring Miller in for an HC who wants a power scheme even if he also wants speed.

But in terms of FA "wants" do what someone above suggested and bring in coaches players think they will benefit from. RC attracts attention. Devlin & OB do not. Hire an OC & OL coach with reps for making players better and playing to their strengths. And since OB has no individual rep for "the system" pull the system stick out of his ass. Pittsburgh & NE play the same system but it doesn't look near as inflexible or mundane. They are flexible to their strengths not their weaknesses.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Once again... what FA didn’t come to Houston because they didn’t like the city or the organization? The Texans are getting outbidded because other teams are valuing certain FAs more than the Texans.

The only player I can remember that turned down the Texans, even though they were offered similar money, was Nate Solder. Are there any others?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
JJo, Manning, Miller, Oz were not 15 years ago.

I disagree with your premise that FAs don't want to play for the Texans.

But how to get better...

I don't like hunting the great white whale with rare exception. Let other teams blow money on the tip of the iceberg FAs. Go aggressively after the next level down for players who fit & will improve the team and then coach them well. Dumb to move Allen. Dumb to draft X, shuffle him around and then refuse to flip him for Allen. Dumb to bring Miller in for an HC who wants a power scheme even if he also wants speed.

But in terms of FA "wants" do what someone above suggested and bring in coaches players think they will benefit from. RC attracts attention. Devlin & OB do not. Hire an OC & OL coach with reps for making players better and playing to their strengths. And since OB has no individual rep for "the system" pull the system stick out of his ass. Pittsburgh & NE play the same system but it doesn't look near as inflexible or mundane. They are flexible to their strengths not their weaknesses.
Well the Texans track record in Fa speaks for itself. The philosophy you're talking about is the one that has lead to mediocrity. It's what the Texans org has been doing for the last decade.

At this point I really don't care as long as they get the OL fixed in this draft. I don't even care about the CB position since they aren't going to be winning a SB next yr and this isn't a good CB class.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
You don't have to get rid of Watt and Clowney for you to build through the draft. You want to make sure to have a great mixture of both veterans and young players. We have enough draft picks in this years draft. Just have to pick what we need wisely.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Other than JoJo, Os the Texans have never even tried to bring in top FA's.
Mmmm. So we don't know the Texans aren't desirable to FAs, but that Houston isn't interested in them.

FA is a screwed up system I can understand Texans not wanting to play in that pool. Sometimes, however, there is an opportunity to bring in a player they liked a few drafts ago & give them a second chance. Maybe that's what they are doing with Body-Calhoun & Roby... Gipson.

But FA isn't the only way to build your roster. It takes two to tango, but why aren't we more active in trades. The guards traded this offseason, Jordan Howard, character guys, relatively cheap... I can't think of a good reason we weren't in on those.

Trading for DThomas in season gave me hope things were changing. But I guess not as much as I'd have liked.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You don't have to get rid of Watt and Clowney for you to build through the draft. You want to make sure to have a great mixture of both veterans and young players. We have enough draft picks in this years draft. Just have to pick what we need wisely.
Disagree,

If you're going to be a draft only team then commit to it and give yourselves as many high picks as you can. Like the Raiders did and shed salary in the process.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Disagree,

If you're going to be a draft only team then commit to it and give yourselves as many high picks as you can. Like the Raiders did and shed salary in the process.
You're acting like we are rebuilding here. That is not the case. So again you don't get rid of your core like that Steel.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Mmmm. So we don't know the Texans aren't desirable to FAs, but that Houston isn't interested in them.

FA is a screwed up system I can understand Texans not wanting to play in that pool. Sometimes, however, there is an opportunity to bring in a player they liked a few drafts ago & give them a second chance. Maybe that's what they are doing with Body-Calhoun & Roby... Gipson.

But FA isn't the only way to build your roster. It takes two to tango, but why aren't we more active in trades. The guards traded this offseason, Jordan Howard, character guys, relatively cheap... I can't think of a good reason we weren't in on those.

Trading for DThomas in season gave me hope things were changing. But I guess not as much as I'd have liked.
Just pointing out facts.

The Texans are rarely players in FA and until they become a player I n FA you can expect more.ediocrity. Unless they go all in on doing what it takes to get as many draft picks as possible and rebuild the team from the ground up. Trade away all of the older,priceier players for draft picks. But for God's sake change your current ways of doing things because they haven't and won't work.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Well the Texans track record in Fa speaks for itself. The philosophy you're talking about is the one that has lead to mediocrity. It's what the Texans org has been doing for the last decade.
Not even close, but you don't listen to anything except agreement.

Disagree,

If you're going to be a draft only team then commit to it and give yourselves as many high picks as you can. Like the Raiders did and shed salary in the process.
Building thru the draft doesn't mean churn just to churn.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You would think the McNair's $$$$ is some of the members $$$$ when you look at some of the posts around here. I know that they tried and failed, the point of tis thread is why have they failed and what can be done to change the perception of the Texans org and the city in general.
You'd think some of us believe there is no salary cap & foolish decisions made this year don't impact decisions to be made next season & the season after.

Throwing money away is not the answer. Just because someone is the best LT in FA doesn't make him a quality LT.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You're acting like we are rebuilding here. That is not the case. So again you don't get rid of your core like that Steel.
The core as currently constituted isn't good enough to win a championship and it's time to move on. You're not going to be able to catch up with just the draft unless you get a bunch of draft picks Put it this way, do you think the Texans can win a SB in the next two years? If not then it's time to rebuild and I mean a total rebuild around Watson and Hopkins.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You'd think some of us believe there is no salary cap & foolish decisions made this year impact decisions to be made next season & the season after.

Throwing money away is not the answer. Just because someone is the best LT in FA doesn't make him a quality LT.
Is he middle of the pack or better?

The Raiders think so.

BTW, FA isn't stupid, it just differentiates the way orgs are run and whether they are willing to take chances.

Also I'm very aware there's a salary cap that the Texans are well on their way to winning a salary cap championship. Certainly not doing all they can to win a SB on the field.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I would say there's a pretty good foundation in place now, to the point that adding a couple of pieces in fa and nailing the draft puts you in contender status.
Wow... BGaine got us there in one season. Or are you saying what I think you're saying?

Which is fine. You don't have to say.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
But in terms of FA "wants" do what someone above suggested and bring in coaches players think they will benefit from. RC attracts attention. Devlin & OB do not. Hire an OC & OL coach with reps for making players better and playing to their strengths. And since OB has no individual rep for "the system" pull the system stick out of his ass. Pittsburgh & NE play the same system but it doesn't look near as inflexible or mundane. They are flexible to their strengths not their weaknesses
New Orleans too. That's at least three teams we should be asking to interview their offensive staff every year.

Acting like there ain't no problem is the problem.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Wow... BGaine got us there in one season. Or are you saying what I think you're saying?

Which is fine. You don't have to say.
I'm saying they have their QB and if they are going to be a draft only team then go all in one n being a draft team. No more sitting on the fence and mediocrity.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The core as currently constituted isn't good enough to win a championship and it's time to move on. You're not going to be able to catch up with just the draft unless you get a bunch of draft picks Put it this way, do you think the Texans can win a SB in the next two years? If not then it's time to rebuild and I mean a total rebuild around Watson and Hopkins.
Maybe. & I'm being honest here. Assuming Fulton & Rankin are our guards, we draft a stud Center & Fuller & Keke could stay healthy I think we can win a Super Bowl in the next two years.

That's a lot that has to happen, I know. But not as much as hoping to hit on every draft pick over the next four years.

If you were to bring in a new HC, I can see a fire sale & starting all over.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
One minute you're saying we're a few pieces away. Now you're saying the core of this is not good enough. Make up your mind Steel.
They are 5 pieces away.

If they aren't going to fix those holes in the next 2 years then tear it down and rebuild it.

They aren't going to be SB contender in next 2 years.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
They are 5 pieces away.

If they aren't going to fix those holes in the next 2 years then tear it down and rebuild it.

They aren't going to be SB contender in next 2 years.

We can not realistically put a number on that like that. Lol and we mostly don't know how the ball will bounce this season. Nobody thought the Eagles were SB contenders when they won it. The Rams were a coach away, go figure right. New coach new scheme and bam they're in the SB. So the Texans could be a coaching change away from their ultimate quest.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
We can not realistically put a number on that like that. Lol and we mostly don't how the ball will bounce this season. Nobody thought the Eagles were SB contenders when they won it. The Rams were a coach away, go figure right. New coach new scheme and bam they're in the SB. So the Texans could be a coaching change away from their ultimate quest.
If you want BOB gone and many didn't want to give Gaine/BOB a year, this is what you should wish for. The franchise would be healthier all the away around.

This franchise has been mired in mediocrity for the last decade. They need to add talent and if they aren't going to spend $$$$ in FA this is the only other option to build a championship team. Imho

You do realize Watt isn't going to be in a SB here in Houston, so unlike wasting away AJ's career trade Watt for picks and give him a chance to win a SB. Same with Clowney.
 

TripleTap

Dead Wood
For my money the problem is twofold: 1 is the owner, and 2) is the HC and GM. The first buys the second. Hw long has OB been running this mess? 4 or 5 years? And the TEAM is really not that much improved OVERALL. It's full of holes OB & GM have had 5 years to fill. You can make 100 excuses, but we're talking 5 freaking years! And that's on 1, the owner. Bring in a real football HC and see how long it takes a pro to make the team something to be proud of.
 

Mangler

Veteran
If you want BOB gone and many didn't want to give Gaine/BOB a year, this is what you should wish for. The franchise would be healthier all the away around.

This franchise has been mired in mediocrity for the last decade. They need to add talent and if they aren't going to spend $$$$ in FA this is the only other option to build a championship team. Imho

You do realize Watt isn't going to be in a SB here in Houston, so unlike wasting away AJ's career trade Watt for picks and give him a chance to win a SB. Same with Clowney.
Lol, there’s a better chance of us getting the rights to the Oilers history than letting Watt go in any capacity.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Then they really aren't being run like the Pats

The Pats don't get attached to any player other than Brady
They trade them away or don't give them new contracts when they become overpriced.* They do not typically trade away players who are underpriced. JJ is dramatically underpriced for 3 more years.

*Seymour got traded in the last year of his contract when he wanted a new long & fat contract. Mankins refused to take a pay cut and got traded for a bagel.
 


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