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Hopkins Says He can be Better than AJ

Nitrofish said:
Hopkins disappeared today. Probably cost me a fantasy championship in one of my leagues but that is another story. I have high expectation for Hopkins, but better than Dre? I doubt that.
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Yup. Andre in his prime was a top 5-7 WR of all time IMO. Ignore the numbers and just watch him play. Between the 20s he was as good as it gets. There's a reason why the majority of his catches, defenders were at least 5 yards away from him. If he had an elite QB, he would have broken the yardage long before Calvin did(with 200 targets nonetheless).
 
Nitrofish said:
I assume you mean while Keenum was throwing passes? Johnson had 181 targets in 2013, and is down to 147 in 2014. Hopkins had 127 in 2014.
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You assume incorrect. I was talking about this last game. You said he disappeared today, I said you can't disappear when the ball isn't thrown accurately to you. Can't blame the WR there.
 
I don't want to hear this for the next 3 years. Typically when Dre has a good game Hopkins won't, and vice-versa. Its the nature of the business, very rarely will they both get lots of passes and yards. This is what happens when you get good players around Dre. His stats drop off, nothing new or exciting about it, just reality.
 
BWTB: Comparing 'Dre and Nuk

YDS REC TD YPG YAC 25 YPC
JOHNSON 2,118 145 10 66.2 934 25 14.6
HOPKINS 2,012 128 8 62.9 574 21 15.7


It's fascinating how similar the stats are. Johnson has a slight edge across the board in all but two categories: yards after the catch (YAC) and yards per catch (YPC). In the former, he has 360 more than Hopkins. In the latter statistic, Hopkins is a yard better per catch than his teammate.
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JB said:
And then went on to compare QB's...

was Carr/Ragone worse than Schaub/Yates/Keenum/Fitz/Mallett/Savage/Keenum?
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I'm not going to disagree with your overriding point, but I will point out yet again that the two of them had the same QB the last two years.
 
eriadoc said:
I'm not going to disagree with your overriding point, but I will point out yet again that the two of them had the same QB the last two years.
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It was only comparing their first two years in the league
 
BWTB: Comparing 'Dre and Nuk

Four years into a brilliant career, defensive end J.J. Watt is nipping at his heels, fresh off winning a second Defensive Player of the Year award.

But down the line, there's a chance receiver DeAndre Hopkins could enter the discussion.

In year two as a pro, Hopkins finished with 1,210 receiving yards on 76 catches, good for nearly 16 yards per grab. He also hauled in six touchdowns and had a dozen receptions that went for 25 yards or more.

But how does that stack up against Johnson?
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Also interesting to note is who threw the balls each receiver's way. In 2003 and 2004 for Johnson, David Carr was under center for the Texans in 28 of those 32 games. Tony Banks also appeared in 12 games during that span, but attempted just a pair of passes in five 2004 contests. Dave Ragone also was a factor in a pair of 2003 games, attempting 40 passes in Johnson's rookie season.

Hopkins, meanwhile, has seen a carousel of quarterbacks in 2013 and 2014. His rookie season began with long-time starter Matt Schaub. In Week 7 of that year, Case Keenumtook over. Sprinkle in 22 pass attempts in three games from T.J. Yates, and Hopkins saw a trio of signal-callers as a rookie.
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He says this like Hopkins has been at a disadvantage because of the carousel, but the carousel put up 132 more receptions for 1265 more yds and 11 more TDs.
 
Yeah, let's not devolve into lunacy here. A young AJ was better than Hopkins is now. Perhaps Hopkins will continue to get even better. You never know. I will say this: AJ never had a season where he put up 16 a catch. That's impressive and represents one area where Hopkins may end up being a real value to the team. He can be a deep threat despite not being a burner. There's value in that.

http://www.footballperspective.com/deandre-hopkins-and-percentage-of-team-receiving-yards/
 
eriadoc said:
I will say this: AJ never had a season where he put up 16 a catch.
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Going to throw a little caution on this one. Coaches keep seeing big bodied AJ and trying to use him as a RB at WR. They have from day 1. Hopkins had 5 balls thrown to him behind the LOS. AJ had 20. That kills an average.

1st 2 years - AJ 39 (2003-4), Hopkins 7.
 
Johnson and Hopkins are two completely different type of receivers, the only thing you can compare is their production, everything else really ends there.
 
silvrhand said:
Johnson and Hopkins are two completely different type of receivers, the only thing you can compare is their production, everything else really ends there.
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I love both. But you do have to consider who was opposite AJ when comparing the start of their careers, both the good and the bad. Did AJ get more targets because he didn't have a star opposite him or did he simply get more attention from the defense? Perhaps both. Now Hopkins has the advantage of a distracted defense covering AJ, but it also reduces the number of times he gets targeted.

Whether it is an advantage for either one questionable, but pertinent to any comparison.

I, for one, am glad we have both.
 
Dre is my favorite player of all-time. I know that he's not what he used to be, but he's still a BMF. Hopkins has some great skills, and I think he will be a great number one receiver on the Texans for a long time. I see some Pro Bowls in his future.. As far as NUK being better than AJ, he has a long way to go. When he stats breaking some of AJ's records, then he can say he's better than Dre. I seriously doubt that will happen though.

That's all I have to say about that. :forrest:
 
Marshall said:
I love both. But you do have to consider who was opposite AJ when comparing the start of their careers, both the good and the bad. Did AJ get more targets because he didn't have a star opposite him or did he simply get more attention from the defense? Perhaps both. Now Hopkins has the advantage of a distracted defense covering AJ, but it also reduces the number of times he gets targeted.
Whether it is an advantage for either one questionable, but pertinent to any comparison.

I, for one, am glad we have both.
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I'm not sure who you are saying is getting reduced targets. Nuk's targets increased over 33% from 2013, and AJ still had 20 more targets than Nuk. Granted AJ's targets were down from previous years (147 compared to 164/181 last two years) but he also missed almost two full games with the concussion.

Playing all 16 would have had him at the 160 target range, and his career average for a full season is 170. It would have also put him close to 100 receptions and 1,100 yards. But for some reason we seem to look at the down numbers for him and forget that he missed time. His YPC is a direct result of those stupid WR screens and Fitz' inability to hit a receiver in stride.
 
sandman said:
I'm not sure who you are saying is getting reduced targets. Nuk's targets increased over 33% from 2013, and AJ still had 20 more targets than Nuk. Granted AJ's targets were down from previous years (147 compared to 164/181 last two years) but he also missed almost two full games with the concussion.

Playing all 16 would have had him at the 160 target range, and his career average for a full season is 170. It would have also put him close to 100 receptions and 1,100 yards. But for some reason we seem to look at the down numbers for him and forget that he missed time. His YPC is a direct result of those stupid WR screens and Fitz' inability to hit a receiver in stride.
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I'm saying Nuk would have gotten even more targets if he played opposite Johnny Journeyman instead of AJ. He would also attract the better coverage people, so the results of this can be debated and should be considered when comparing their early careers.
 
Marshall said:
I'm saying Nuk would have gotten even more targets if he played opposite Johnny Journeyman instead of AJ. He would also attract the better coverage people, so the results of this can be debated and should be considered when comparing their early careers.
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Ah, thanks for the clarification. That is a good debate and shows just how good AJ has been. Just checked the numbers for his career and last year marks only the second time in 12 seasons that anyone else had 70 or more receptions.
 
I think it's a good thing to have a player that has confidence in himself and believing he can be better than a great player like AJ. Keep working hard Nuk!
 
infantrycak said:
Going to throw a little caution on this one. Coaches keep seeing big bodied AJ and trying to use him as a RB at WR. They have from day 1. Hopkins had 5 balls thrown to him behind the LOS. AJ had 20. That kills an average.

1st 2 years - AJ 39 (2003-4), Hopkins 7.
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Nuk is a solid, above avg WR.


He couldn't carry a young AJ's jock.
 
steelbtexan said:
Nuk is a solid, above avg WR.


He couldn't carry a young AJ's jock.
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:yes: :bravo:

Young AJ was freaking Ali:

65549571-173f-4946-8ed2-d76d89aebfdd.jpg



Nuk would be Glass Joe or some sh!t:

glassjoe060413.jpg
 
DocBar said:
Unfortunately, we're not talking about young AJ. We're talking about old, high dollar AJ. There is a difference...
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His salary wasn't an issue the previous two years when he went for 220/3000. But he has one year where numbers were low for him and now he is old and overpaid. Considering his personal drama in the offseason, a new regime and the parade of QB's in the second half of the season, how about we see what this season brings.

Let's not forget that in 2005 AND 2006 (with a league high 103 catches) he averaged only 11 yards a catch with HWSNBN but rebounded nicely. With the SEVEN different QB's the last two seasons he has averaged 13 and 11. Again, I'll wait and see how this next season plays out, because one year isn't a trend.
 
sandman said:
His salary wasn't an issue the previous two years when he went for 220/3000. But he has one year where numbers were low for him and now he is old and overpaid. Considering his personal drama in the offseason, a new regime and the parade of QB's in the second half of the season, how about we see what this season brings.

Let's not forget that in 2005 AND 2006 (with a league high 103 catches) he averaged only 11 yards a catch with HWSNBN but rebounded nicely. With the SEVEN different QB's the last two seasons he has averaged 13 and 11. Again, I'll wait and see how this next season plays out, because one year isn't a trend.
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You realize that's 10 years ago...or a lifetime ago in the NFL. If there's one thing I give the Patriots credit for, it's how they handle older players and their high salaries. They draft a replacement and start the process of moving on.
 
PapaL said:
You realize that's 10 years ago...or a lifetime ago in the NFL.
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You realize it's only 1 year removed from him going 1400 yds and 12.9 ypc with a **** collective 73 QB rating...or one "off" season.

If there's one thing I give the Patriots credit for, it's how they handle older players and their high salaries. They draft a replacement and start the process of moving on.
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Not a particularly apt analogy for a WR discussion since they've basically drafted dick for that position. Unless we become like them and have an arguable GOAT at QB, don't think copying them in this regard is a very good idea.
 
PapaL said:
If there's one thing I give the Patriots credit for, it's how they handle older players and their high salaries. They draft a replacement and start the process of moving on.
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I wonder how "free" they would be with their established players if they didn't have Tom Brady.

We don't have Tom Brady. If we did, I can understand letting Andre go... we'll probably win 12 games anyway. But we don't. Let Andre go & we probably win 8, or 7 games instead of 9.
 
sandman said:
His salary wasn't an issue the previous two years when he went for 220/3000. But he has one year where numbers were low for him and now he is old and overpaid. Considering his personal drama in the offseason, a new regime and the parade of QB's in the second half of the season, how about we see what this season brings.

Let's not forget that in 2005 AND 2006 (with a league high 103 catches) he averaged only 11 yards a catch with HWSNBN but rebounded nicely. With the SEVEN different QB's the last two seasons he has averaged 13 and 11. Again, I'll wait and see how this next season plays out, because one year isn't a trend.
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I wouldn't want to pay 14 mil to see.
 
thunderkyss said:
I wonder how "free" they would be with their established players if they didn't have Tom Brady.

We don't have Tom Brady. If we did, I can understand letting Andre go... we'll probably win 12 games anyway. But we don't. Let Andre go & we probably win 8, or 7 games instead of 9.
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Depends on who is added in FA/draft.

You're right, with the Texans track record it is better to keep AJ than let Rick Smith lead the team into the unknown, even at 14 mil per yr.
 
steelbtexan said:
Depends on who is added in FA/draft.

You're right, with the Texans track record it is better to keep AJ than let Rick Smith lead the team into the unknown, even at 14 mil per yr.
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I'm not down with the $16M cap hit Andre will account for this year. I think that needs to come down regardless.
 
steelbtexan said:
I wouldn't want to pay 14 mil to see.
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Not your choice to make. We all know McNair wants AJ to be the first Texan in the HoF. It means he will be overpaid at the end of his career to make it happen. He isn't going anywhere. We all know this. We just need to accept it and embrace the moment of seeing a generational type player finish out an amazing career.
 
sandman said:
Not your choice to make. We all know McNair wants AJ to be the first Texan in the HoF. It means he will be overpaid at the end of his career to make it happen. He isn't going anywhere. We all know this. We just need to accept it and embrace the moment of seeing a generational type player finish out an amazing career.
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I don't know about all that.

Andre also said he wants to retire in Houston. He knows this business & how it works.

More than likely they'll work out a deal to lower his cap hit & he'll play at a level on par to what he has the last couple of years... won't be overpaid.

Chances are he won't get much more than a $5M/yr deal anywhere else. We should be willing to pay him as much. Then his cap hit wouldn't be any more than $10M.... which we should be willing to take, that's a $6M saving against the cap as opposed to an $8M savings if we release/trade him.

They may even be able to work out an extension, saving $10M against the cap, so we'll see. But there's nothing that should lead you to believe he'll be "overpaid." The dude can still play.
 
infantrycak said:
You realize it's only 1 year removed from him going 1400 yds and 12.9 ypc with a **** collective 73 QB rating...or one "off" season.



Not a particularly apt analogy for a WR discussion since they've basically drafted dick for that position. Unless we become like them and have an arguable GOAT at QB, don't think copying them in this regard is a very good idea.
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WOW slow down on the reality Cak, we all know AJ is old and washed up :kitten:
 
infantrycak said:
You realize it's only 1 year removed from him going 1400 yds and 12.9 ypc with a **** collective 73 QB rating...or one "off" season.
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You realize that when players hit their mid 30's at his position it only takes one off season and players can drop off tremendously? I mean hell, the way you and others dismiss the history of that with tons and tons of players kind of makes the entire discussion come off pretty amateurish. Reggie Wayne had a 1,600 yard season two years ago with a rookie at QB, and then has a major injury the very next season. This year he comes back and he's completely done. Moss went from being able to dominate to going to 3 teams in one season in his last year of being a Patriot and then was horrible after that. Completely different guy. In every sport, once guys hit that age range the drop off comes like a ton of bricks most of the time. It isn't some gradual thing that you see for years. To completely dismiss AJ's age and his last season is not a non bias analysis at all. If it wasn't a major concern, then teams would be lining up to trade for him right now to take on him and his contract.
 
Texecutioner said:
You realize that when players hit their mid 30's at his position it only takes one off season and players can drop off tremendously? I mean hell, the way you and others dismiss the history of that with tons and tons of players kind of makes the entire discussion come off pretty amateurish. Reggie Wayne had a 1,600 yard season two years ago with a rookie at QB, and then has a major injury the very next season. This year he comes back and he's completely done. Moss went from being able to dominate to going to 3 teams in one season in his last year of being a Patriot and then was horrible after that. Completely different guy. In every sport, once guys hit that age range the drop off comes like a ton of bricks most of the time. It isn't some gradual thing that you see for years. To completely dismiss AJ's age and his last season is not a non bias analysis at all. If it wasn't a major concern, then teams would be lining up to trade for him right now to take on him and his contract.
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AJ will be 34 this next season. Yet you want to compare him to a 36 year old Wayne that came off a major injury, and probably the SOFTEST WR to ever play the game in Moss.

And I'm not sure the stats back up your assertion about significant drop off, unless you are defining "mid-30's" as something older than 34/35.

Performances at age 34 for all WR's with 1000+ career receptions:

Jerry Rice - 108/1294
Marvin Harrison - 95/1366
Cris Carter - 90/1231
Tim Brown - 76/1128
Terrell Owens - 81/1355
Reggie Wayne - 106/1355
Isaac Bruce - 75/1098
Hines Ward - 59/755

Ward is the only one that showed a significant production decrease. Bruce was pretty much on his career averages. Brown had a 91/1175 season the next year at age 35. In fact Rice, Carter, Brown and even Owens all had productive seasons between ages 35-37.

Not to mention the guys with career catches between 900-1000 like Mason, Boldin, Monk and Steve Smith who all had 1,000 yard seasons at 34 or older.

These are his peers, and his peer group shows strong inclination of performing very well at age 34 and even older. While this does not guarantee any performance by AJ, if we are going to use your argument the history of the game, the odds are actually in his favor to have a strong season in 2015.

IMHO, you are a bit too eager to dig his grave.
 
B-ZSx8BCcAAEcns.jpg


Hopkins at a signing today, I didn't know he had surgery on his wrist. I thought it was strange he was signing with a cast on that wrist. It seemed painful for him.
 
Playoffs said:
Ruh-ruh.... another scaphoid break?
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The thumb spica is certainly consistent with a scaphoid fracture. If it were a tendon injury of the hand across the wrist, you would expect his entire thumb (including the distal joint) and/or MCP joints (fist knuckles) of the other digits to be immobilized. If anything, he might have a concommitant ligament injury at the scaphoid bone. The only unlikely tendon I can think of that would require a modified thumb spica cast would be the extensor pollicus (thumb) brevis.....and that wouldn't require a full hand cast pattern......just the thumb side of the wrist.

Hopkins, if anyone remembers was on the Injury Report of Dec 26, and limited in practice that week, with a wrist injury.
 
sandman said:
His salary wasn't an issue the previous two years when he went for 220/3000. But he has one year where numbers were low for him and now he is old and overpaid. Considering his personal drama in the offseason, a new regime and the parade of QB's in the second half of the season, how about we see what this season brings.

Let's not forget that in 2005 AND 2006 (with a league high 103 catches) he averaged only 11 yards a catch with HWSNBN but rebounded nicely. With the SEVEN different QB's the last two seasons he has averaged 13 and 11. Again, I'll wait and see how this next season plays out, because one year isn't a trend.
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I'm basig my opinion off of how AJ played, not who was throwing the ball. There are much better options in FA and the draft for the money. AJ just flat out looked old last season.
 
DocBar said:
I'm basig my opinion off of how AJ played, not who was throwing the ball. There are much better options in FA and the draft for the money. AJ just flat out looked old last season.
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Lol at not looking at who's throwing.

Won't get into "looks old" since that is too subjective.

Name the much better after paying the dead money options. I'll give that one to steelb, he named Cobb. Ain't going to happen but at least it was a credible argument v. Blank is better.
 
infantrycak said:
Lol at not looking at who's throwing.

Won't get into "looks old" since that is too subjective.

Name the much better after paying the dead money options. I'll give that one to steelb, he named Cobb. Ain't going to happen but at least it was a credible argument v. Blank is better.
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What? Did Norg hack your account?
 
Playoffs said:
http://hou.scout.com/story/1519989-deandre-hopkins-has-offseason-hand-procedure?s=116
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This link, if accurate, states that it is a "wrist ligament injury."

CloakNNNdagger said:
The thumb spica is certainly consistent with a scaphoid fracture. If it were a tendon injury of the hand across the wrist, you would expect his entire thumb (including the distal joint) and/or MCP joints (fist knuckles) of the other digits to be immobilized. If anything, he might have a concommitant ligament injury at the scaphoid bone. The only unlikely tendon I can think of that would require a modified thumb spica cast would be the extensor pollicus (thumb) brevis.....and that wouldn't require a full hand cast pattern......just the thumb side of the wrist.

Hopkins, if anyone remembers was on the Injury Report of Dec 26, and limited in practice that week, with a wrist injury.
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The above ligament I was referring to above (the SCAPHOLUNATE ligament) is the most commonly injured wrist ligament.

When the ligament is repaired surgically, stabilization is usually affected with multiple pins or a single screw. Depending upon circumstances, these pieces of hardware will be removed at varieable times.........the pins usually ~ 6-8 weeks (a cast will continue to immobilize the wrist until 12 weeks).......the single screw anywhere from 4-6 months, depending if there are any significant associated injuries. Theoretically, return could be a little earlier, if the player continues to be cast stabilized a longer period of time........however, in the case of WR, this would not be practical. Barring complication, most of these injuries require at least 4-5 months to gain optimal range of motion and strength, a significant number of patients may not ultimately be able to regain more than 75% of either.


1B%20Temporary%20Pin%20S-L.jpg


1C%20Temporary%20SLIC%20Screw.jpg
 
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