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Holliday Returning Kicks Again

GP said:
I consider the #1 and #2 RBs to both be starters. They get switched out all game long, rather than being a benched player who would only come on in scenarios of injuries or a coach demoting the 1st string guy.

Semantics.
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I disagree. This is how I see it:

Starter = majority of the snaps, especially an every down back like Arian.

#2 = situational player i.e. goal line back, 3rd down back, etc. Or to give the starter an occasional breather or to keep the starter fresh for the 4th qtr. Much fewer snaps than the starter.

I rarely see a 50/50 split on the carries, most of the time you need to give the RB a chance to get in a groove.
 
infantrycak said:
In this particular instance it was Foster 22 carries, Ogbo 2.
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Exactly. That's a huge disparity. Even with a healthy Tate, obviously the preferred back up, it still wouldn't be real close, some where in the neighborhood of 70/30 (injuries aside).

*disclaimer - that's an estimation in my head not an official stat, better get that out there before Porky ask if I even watch the games.
 
I had Trindon making my final roster for many of the reasons that are now being discussed in this thread. Hopefully the little guy comes in and provides a much needed element of explosion to the team and becomes a fixture for years to come.
 
Texan_Bill said:
:heh:

Fear the mittens!
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Heh, I don't think I'll ever forget that ball he threw away, barely missing that cheerleader's head. It would've been a devastating blow if it had made contact.

And the camera man that almost got knocked out by one of his 'throw aways'

Reminds me of that movie Varsity Blues where Mox drills the opposing teams mascot.
 
Hardcore Texan said:
Exactly. That's a huge disparity. Even with a healthy Tate, obviously the preferred back up, it still wouldn't be real close, some where in the neighborhood of 70/30 (injuries aside).

*disclaimer - that's an estimation in my head not an official stat, better get that out there before Porky ask if I even watch the games.
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Last year it was 327 attempts for Foster and 69 for the other RB's. That's 83% Foster/17% others.
 
So Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter are not starters?

AJ is the lead guy, but he's the only "starter" according to you guys' thinking.

Leinart is definitely not a starter. Only one QB on the field at a time. Leinart is a backup/bench QB.

You can have "starters" despite the ratio of carries or catches. In terms of last week, Foster and OgBo were the starters at RB. Many times, you've even got multiple RB sets on the field. And especially in Kubiak's system...where he rides the hot hand...the word "starter" for RBs is even more ambiguous.

Semantics. Like I said. But keep flogging me for it....it's fun.
 
GP said:
So Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter are not starters?
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Depends. JJ generally no. Look, the NFL has a standard for whether a player is a starter in any particular game and it is pretty semantic proof. If you are on the field of play for the first snap of that unit O or D you are a starter in that game. If the first play of the game was a three WR set with JJ in the game he'll get credit as a starter. That's how AJ, Walter and JJ had 36 combined starts last year. That's how Leach only had 5 starts last year.

But keep flogging me for it....it's fun.
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Nobody is trying to flog you for it.

I provided the stats in post #106 because a lot of folks think we RBBC when it really is not true.
 
infantrycak said:
Depends. JJ generally no. Look, the NFL has a standard for whether a player is a starter in any particular game and it is pretty semantic proof. If you are on the field of play for the first snap of that unit O or D you are a starter in that game. If the first play of the game was a three WR set with JJ in the game he'll get credit as a starter. That's how AJ, Walter and JJ had 36 combined starts last year. That's how Leach only had 5 starts last year.



Nobody is trying to flog you for it.
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When I mentioned OgBo as a "starter," in the context of this conversation (semantics), I think everyone knew what I was saying. It didn't need to be challenged, as if it was misleading to the topic at hand.

OgBo went from practice squad (4th on the depth chart) to appearing as RB2, and then cut afterward. The point was that, not whether he is or isn't a starter by the strictest interpretation.

Had you not included it in your multi-quote, everything moves along. That's where I pick a bone with your need to be the message board mommy who corrects everyone when you get the chance. It was tacky.
 
Carr Bombed said:
J.J. Moses played in 30 games during his two seasons here...and out of over 200+ returns he only put the ball on the ground twice. He's the same identical size as Holiday. I'm not saying at that size that a player has nothing to worry about injury wise, but it doesn't mean it's a certainty that "somebody is going to break you" either. It all depends on if he's fast/quick enough to avoid kill shots and square on hits (like most small guys are). Plus the guy played in the SEC...he played against a lot of players that size in college.
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If Coach Marciano had his way, he would always work with a designated return guy like Moses.

He loved JJ Moses. What he didn't like is that JJ could be caught from behind.

He was the one that wanted Trindon Holliday on the Texans. At the time he said, "You can't coach speed." That if someone gave him a fast, quick guy, he could teach him the special teams.

Given Holliday's inexperience, it really is a big risk/reward move. Marciano does have the most rookie returners who have made the Pro Bowl. I believe 3 over his career.
 
GP said:
When I mentioned OgBo as a "starter," in the context of this conversation (semantics), I think everyone knew what I was saying. It didn't need to be challenged, as if it was misleading to the topic at hand.

OgBo went from practice squad (4th on the depth chart) to appearing as RB2, and then cut afterward. The point was that, not whether he is or isn't a starter by the strictest interpretation.

Had you not included it in your multi-quote, everything moves along. That's where I pick a bone with your need to be the message board mommy who corrects everyone when you get the chance. It was tacky.
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I don't see anyone "flogging" anyone. Well except Porky getting real snarky with me and being way off base. Still waiting on you big Porky to come back to this thread.

Anywho, it sounds like a matter of interpretation for me I guess. I don't ever consider RB2 a starter. A starter to me is someone who carries the load, besides starts the first play of the game (obviously) as 'Cak mentioned where they get credit for it. I tend to associate it that way. JJ is WR#3, unless we start the game in a 3 WR set, JJ is not technically a starter when AJ and Walter are healthy.

A 3 WR set would mean no full back, 1 TE, and 1 RB. We wouldn't see Casey in on the first snap. Does that mean we don't have a starting FB? I guess I think of depth chart position to tell the tale vs. who is on the first snap of the game even though that's the technical definition and stat.
 
Texans_Chick said:
If Coach Marciano had his way, he would always work with a designated return guy like Moses.

He loved JJ Moses. What he didn't like is that JJ could be caught from behind.

He was the one that wanted Trindon Holliday on the Texans. At the time he said, "You can't coach speed." That if someone gave him a fast, quick guy, he could teach him the special teams.

Given Holliday's inexperience, it really is a big risk/reward move. Marciano does have the most rookie returners who have made the Pro Bowl. I believe 3 over his career.
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I loved JJ Moses. He wasn't really a threat to take it to the house, BUT he never put the Texans in a bad spot or hurt them.

Unlike me.

Signed,

Fair catch at the 6 yard line with an over the shoulder catch aka The "other" JJ
 
Texans_Chick said:
If Coach Marciano had his way, he would always work with a designated return guy like Moses.

He loved JJ Moses. What he didn't like is that JJ could be caught from behind.

He was the one that wanted Trindon Holliday on the Texans. At the time he said, "You can't coach speed." That if someone gave him a fast, quick guy, he could teach him the special teams.

Given Holliday's inexperience, it really is a big risk/reward move. Marciano does have the most rookie returners who have made the Pro Bowl. I believe 3 over his career.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Coach Joe lobby to have Holliday drafted?
 
Texanmike said:
Well you're not supposed to say the old #8's name. That is instant neg rep. Bad JuJu for the Texans man. HWWNBN. Or you can call him Autoo anything but his name.

Mike
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I personally think that "Viejo Ocho" is a decent substitute for HWWNBN or Mr. Mittens.
 
GP said:
So Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter are not starters?

AJ is the lead guy, but he's the only "starter" according to you guys' thinking.

Leinart is definitely not a starter. Only one QB on the field at a time. Leinart is a backup/bench QB.

You can have "starters" despite the ratio of carries or catches.
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Jacoby is a semi starter...Walter is full fledged...

Carries and catches have nothing to do with it...It's about the amount of snaps you take in regards to packages you are a part of....

For instance...Vonta didn't play a whole, whole lot but he was a starter because whenever a package called for a FB he was the guy...

If we have two WR's on the field Jacoby could technically be one of them, but Walter will be the other guy most times.

We run a lot of two-tight, but Dreesen isn't a starter because when we use 1 TE which we do quite often as well, OD is the guy who will get the nod...

Walter is a starter because we we rarely go with 1 wr, but if we ran a bunch of 1 WR stuff Walter would be considered second string....
 
I still like Jones on punts, his play count will drop with Mason here and even more when AJ comes back. I do prefer Holiday over Manning, because either Manning is gassed on defense or he isn't good. I tend to think he is just gassed. He plays defense and then has to immediately return a kick if they score. He just doesn't have the energy to run one back. Trindon will do nothing but return, so he should have plenty of juice to keep that motor running all game long.
 
panamamyers said:
Brandon Banks makes Holliday look like Jim Brown, and Banks has done just fine with Washington.
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This. The only rub is that Banks has merely played two years as a pro (though he's impressive, longevity is the main concern for someone of his size and stature).

So, let's try...

Gerald McNeil WR/KR/PR
5'7", 145 lbs.

1984-1985 - Houston Gamblers
1986-1989 - Cleveland Browns
1990 - Houston Oilers
Pro-Bowl 1987.

That's a good 7 years.

I remember McNeil well. FAST and electric!

Man, I forgot all about the USFL refs wearing short pants.

Wow. The **** I remember at 3:15am. :sleep:
 
i'm worried about this because of his penchant for fumbling (small hands + bigger nfl ball). i hope i'm wrong.
 
From ESPN

They signed returner Trindon Holliday this week and Gary Kubiak indicated Holliday would take punt returns off Jacoby Jones’ plate and reduce Danieal Manning’s workload by taking over kickoff returns. But Holliday is inactive, so the Ravens are unwilling or not ready to go forward with that idea.
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LOL
 
It's a lot easier to be a riverboat gambler and take chances on Tuesday than it is on Sunday. We have extremely conservative, to a fault, guys making decisions.
 
Maybe the texans figured balty would kick out of the ez everytime and they wouldn't force them to punt much.
 
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