Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Maybe I'm missing something because I'm too lazy to read through 50+ posts but when did Manning get demoted as a the return guy??
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Holliday Returning Kicks Again
- Thread starter jtexas
- Start date
texanfan2002114
Veteran
Holliday didn't do that bad during preseason in kickoff returns. He only had 3 returns for 79 yards with a 26.3 average and 3 punt returns for 27 yards with 9.0 average.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Really? Man I must be a pessimist....lol, only remembering the bad stuff.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
I got a good feeling about him!
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
I think this is a big risk, reward move. Hard to get your first start in Baltimore.
That being said, if the punter out kicks his coverage, which sometimes happens for the Ravens, I wouldn't want to cover Holliday.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
Kubiak said he was the starter today. He defended his performance by pointing out the pressure leading to tips and errant throws. If JJ was gone, they would be insanely thin at receiver.
There's a point of view that returners should be designated guys because if they are splitting time between returning and a position on the field, they can't excel at both.
TejasTom
All Pro
Last year he had a thumb injury, that best I remember, required surgery. This preseason he had (surprise!) hamstring injury.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
Exactly what I want Kubiak saying. He needs to be over-selling Jones right now.
Either way, I can't imagine Kubiak ever throwing anybody under the bus.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
I think it was a pinkie.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
I got a good feeling about him overall, not necessarily in the context of Sunday's match up. Admittedly I know very little about the Ravens' special teams. Good to know info about their punter. Hopefully he is real careful on punt returns. I like the idea of him getting a head of steam on kick returns with his speed, seems a lot of teams are bringing it out even with the rule change.
speedfreek
All Pro
dude's too small to play at the pro level. he will become a turnover machine when the bigger folks start hitting him
TJ
TJ
He's gonna be a flat out broke machine when those backup LB's and TE's start nailing him in a game that counts. 240+ hitting ~170 at full speed is a semi hitting a Smart Car. It ain't gonna be pretty for the Smart Car. If he was anything remotely resembling NFL quality at these positions, why was he on the PS to start with? As I said earlier, the
has been hit and hopefully Phillips and Dennison will want to coach for the "Chin" in 2012.He's gonna be a flat out broke machine when those backup LB's and TE's start nailing him in a game that counts. 240+ hitting ~170 at full speed is a semi hitting a Smart Car. It ain't gonna be pretty for the Smart Car. If he was anything remotely resembling NFL quality at these positions, why was he on the PS to start with? As I said earlier, the
Yea cause u can never find any quality from the practice squad. Wait, the league's leading rusher last year was where from Sept-Nov of 2009?
Im not saying he is gonna be awesome but talent can be found on the practice squad
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
As long as Holliday doesn't fumble.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Hate to quote myself, but since no one addressed my question before (and apparently I missed something) when did Manning not become our return guy anymore??
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
For the time and effort it took you to quote yourself, you would have,been finished reading through this thread. You lazy sumbitch.
Kubiak wants JJ and Manning to focus on their positions. Manning is in on 70+ snaps in addition to the return game. He's tired.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I don't know that referring to it as a demotion is an accurate way of putting it (especially in Manning's case), but basically, at a press conference earlier today, Kubiak referenced the number of snaps both Manning and Jacoby played on Sunday and essentially said he wanted to get them a little relief. Here's the quote from HT.com
LINK
Apples and oranges.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
edit - double post
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
He's gonna be a flat out broke machine when those backup LB's and TE's start nailing him in a game that counts. 240+ hitting ~170 at full speed is a semi hitting a Smart Car. It ain't gonna be pretty for the Smart Car. If he was anything remotely resembling NFL quality at these positions, why was he on the PS to start with? As I said earlier, the
J.J. Moses played in 30 games during his two seasons here...and out of over 200+ returns he only put the ball on the ground twice. He's the same identical size as Holiday. I'm not saying at that size that a player has nothing to worry about injury wise, but it doesn't mean it's a certainty that "somebody is going to break you" either. It all depends on if he's fast/quick enough to avoid kill shots and square on hits (like most small guys are). Plus the guy played in the SEC...he played against a lot of players that size in college.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
He's gonna be a flat out broke machine when those backup LB's and TE's start nailing him in a game that counts. 240+ hitting ~170 at full speed is a semi hitting a Smart Car. It ain't gonna be pretty for the Smart Car. If he was anything remotely resembling NFL quality at these positions, why was he on the PS to start with? As I said earlier, the
No worries! He wasn't actually on the practice squad - he'd been cut from it a couple of weeks ago and was on the street, so all is well.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
His left thumb is comparable to my pinkie so... SHUT IT!!!
Thanks for the clarification. I went and looked it up and sure enough... it was the thumb.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
As far as another topic that was discussed in this thread. Daniel Manning has been a fantastic returner for us, I don't see how anybody could criticize the job he's done returning the ball this year. I see the move to Holiday solely being that they can't afford to lose someone like Manning in the secondary. Injuries are starting to mount, this is a attempt to not lose a starter to STs play only.
Houston has been one of the best kick return teams in the league with Manning returning kicks...he's been a asset returning kicks this year as he's hardly ever brought down by the first guy and has 0 wasted movement. He's a point A to B returner.
Houston has been one of the best kick return teams in the league with Manning returning kicks...he's been a asset returning kicks this year as he's hardly ever brought down by the first guy and has 0 wasted movement. He's a point A to B returner.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
And Moses has what to do with Holliday other than tiny? Moses lasted how long? Holliday did what in previous preseasons? Notice that I didn't compare Holliday to anyone else. I merely judged his results on the field of play. If you feel all warm and fuzzy about this, I surmise that you have an obese, hairy wife. Please quit posting with her on your mind.
In your post you were talking about a player at 170 pounds not being able to stay healthy...well guess how much Moses weighed and how tall Moses was. It has everything to do with Moses since they have the same exact body type. During his two seasons here he only failed to play in two ball games. Are you going to call this a apples and oranges argument too, because from where I'm sitting 5-6 and 175 pounds = 5-5 and 170 pounds and is apples and apples.
I don't really care how long Moses played here, he gave us two seasons and I'm only looking for Holiday to get us through the last 11 games without screwing the pooch. You totally lost me with the fat, hairy, wife line. As far as Trindon goes though, I'm more concerned with his ability to catch the ball than what he can actually do once he has it.
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I see the same thing here as you do CB.
On Holliday, he actually was known more for his punt return at LSU then kick return.
His 18 yard average on punt return during his Sr year was outstanding (362 yards on 20 returns.)
He has good hands and good concentration (for the most part).
However, as a small guy, he does have small hands.
I had watched a huge numbers of his returns (about 15 games in his last 2 years at LSU; I only watched games against tier 1 opponents.)
I really like the guy out of college; however, I do have concern about him catching the ball as an NFL coverage man approaching in on a tackle.
When he gets hit hard a few times, his mental approach might be affected.
This (the mental aspect) was my biggest concern.
If the coaches (after seeing him in practice at this level for over a year) think that he can handle it, I'm all for giving him a shot.
Last year, our roster spots were more in flux (we weren't as set with the back-ups at a few different positions), it was harder to justify carrying a specialist.
This year is a little different; we have a little better depth.
Of course, if we can find another situational pass rusher, things can change.
(They may cut Nading or Holliday or another position, depending on how things shape up.)
GP
Go Texans!
What I think everyone is failing to talk about here is this:
NOBODY'S job is safe.
1. We kept Maynard (the punter), he sucked in the next preseason game and he was cut and Hartmann was brought back on.
2. David Anderson was cut, tried to catch on in Denver, and was brought back to Houston. I am sure he probably thought he had it made and was back in the fold again, back home with Houston. And now? He was cut again.
3. OgBo was started vs. Raiders, and was promptly cut this week.
4. Holliday, who had been cut from the PS, is now being asked to come in on ff the street and return kicks and punts.
5. Jacoby had his golden chance vs. Raiders to show he belongs as a starter, and possibly as a WR at all, and he blew it. We've been told that he isn't returning punts so that he can focus on being a WR...but come now, does anybody truly believe that by signing Derrick Mason that Jacoby will see time on the field unless injuries to other WRs allow him to be? Maybe if we have a 5 WR set Jacoby also could see time at WR...but my money is on Jacoby being shown the door at some point. It's over. His fugg ups vs. Raiders might have been a huge factor in the loss.
I bet there will be a passionate Texans team this Sunday. Not saying it translates into a win on the road vs. the Ravens. Just saying that I think, as some have speculated, there was a HUGE **** storm in the meetings this week.
Lots of shuffling, lots of coach-speak, and a coach who knows it's now or never.
What's sad is that Kubiak should have been operating like this EVERY year, but he had to try the "Awww shucks" game by having lingering loyalties that he's having nothing to do with THIS season.
Someone's wearing gasoline underwear while running through hell, I would say.
NOBODY'S job is safe.
1. We kept Maynard (the punter), he sucked in the next preseason game and he was cut and Hartmann was brought back on.
2. David Anderson was cut, tried to catch on in Denver, and was brought back to Houston. I am sure he probably thought he had it made and was back in the fold again, back home with Houston. And now? He was cut again.
3. OgBo was started vs. Raiders, and was promptly cut this week.
4. Holliday, who had been cut from the PS, is now being asked to come in on ff the street and return kicks and punts.
5. Jacoby had his golden chance vs. Raiders to show he belongs as a starter, and possibly as a WR at all, and he blew it. We've been told that he isn't returning punts so that he can focus on being a WR...but come now, does anybody truly believe that by signing Derrick Mason that Jacoby will see time on the field unless injuries to other WRs allow him to be? Maybe if we have a 5 WR set Jacoby also could see time at WR...but my money is on Jacoby being shown the door at some point. It's over. His fugg ups vs. Raiders might have been a huge factor in the loss.
I bet there will be a passionate Texans team this Sunday. Not saying it translates into a win on the road vs. the Ravens. Just saying that I think, as some have speculated, there was a HUGE **** storm in the meetings this week.
Lots of shuffling, lots of coach-speak, and a coach who knows it's now or never.
What's sad is that Kubiak should have been operating like this EVERY year, but he had to try the "Awww shucks" game by having lingering loyalties that he's having nothing to do with THIS season.
Someone's wearing gasoline underwear while running through hell, I would say.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
And there's the difference. Whatever the reason, whether they've waken up or been awakened by the heat that's on their ass, management is doing something.
This is a very good development. We're maturing. A couple years late to be sure, but it's happening.
This is a very good development. We're maturing. A couple years late to be sure, but it's happening.
GP
Go Texans!
I thought Jacoby was going to have an electric game vs. Raiders.
I really did.
I figured he would understand the gravity of the situation: (A) He's been here for years upon years, being given lots of grace by Kubiak, (B) Andre Johnson is out, and it was up to Jacoby to stretch the field like Andre does, and (C) We needed this win vs. the Raiders very badly.
It went to ****, folks. And with it, IMO, so did Jaocby's future here. Look at the series of dominoes that have fallen since Sunday. Even OgBo got his ass kicked to the curb. The message: Life is cold and cruel, get a sweater or freeze to death.
I don't want to be sucked into being a "mark" again, though. However, what if the massive amount of ass kicking that happened this week ends up being something that sparks this team to a new level?
What if Schaub was disgusted with himself on a whole new level than before? What if the o-line also feels they screwed the pooch on Sunday? What if by seeing his punt return duties taken away, Jacoby ends up being a cautionary tale of How To Not Lose Your Job for every player on this team who needs that type of motivation?
If Mason pays off with lots of catches, moving the chains, maybe even a TD score vs. Ravens. And if Holliday ceases the day and excels at returning kicks/punts, maybe we can win on the road and maybe it sends a message that the kiddy train has been put away and the big boy train is finally being rolled out.
THIS game (and God didn't we just say this about last week's Raiders game too?!?!?) is now the most important game in Texans history.
Do our guys find a way to be punk asses and blow this? It's up to them, no doubt. It will be "On them" this Sunday, one way or another. This has the makings of an NFL Classic if all the stars align correctly.
I really did.
I figured he would understand the gravity of the situation: (A) He's been here for years upon years, being given lots of grace by Kubiak, (B) Andre Johnson is out, and it was up to Jacoby to stretch the field like Andre does, and (C) We needed this win vs. the Raiders very badly.
It went to ****, folks. And with it, IMO, so did Jaocby's future here. Look at the series of dominoes that have fallen since Sunday. Even OgBo got his ass kicked to the curb. The message: Life is cold and cruel, get a sweater or freeze to death.
I don't want to be sucked into being a "mark" again, though. However, what if the massive amount of ass kicking that happened this week ends up being something that sparks this team to a new level?
What if Schaub was disgusted with himself on a whole new level than before? What if the o-line also feels they screwed the pooch on Sunday? What if by seeing his punt return duties taken away, Jacoby ends up being a cautionary tale of How To Not Lose Your Job for every player on this team who needs that type of motivation?
If Mason pays off with lots of catches, moving the chains, maybe even a TD score vs. Ravens. And if Holliday ceases the day and excels at returning kicks/punts, maybe we can win on the road and maybe it sends a message that the kiddy train has been put away and the big boy train is finally being rolled out.
THIS game (and God didn't we just say this about last week's Raiders game too?!?!?) is now the most important game in Texans history.
Do our guys find a way to be punk asses and blow this? It's up to them, no doubt. It will be "On them" this Sunday, one way or another. This has the makings of an NFL Classic if all the stars align correctly.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
That's the difference. The response. The loss against the Raiders was "typical Texans" or whatever, but the response in the last 3 days has NOT been "typical" Texans." This leads me to believe that it's turning from "typical Texans" to just losses that happen to happen becaue the other team is pretty good.
A key is Cushing. I want him fired the HELL up and I want him firing everyone else the hell up. That shot of him with the blood on his face was just so awesome.
A key is Cushing. I want him fired the HELL up and I want him firing everyone else the hell up. That shot of him with the blood on his face was just so awesome.
Sorry, I'm new to this site like you made me aware of when I brought up the old #8. Won't happen again...... Besides, I still have no clue what the heck a rep is all about anyway.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Huh? You do know he is 4th in the league right? Do you watch the actual games?
Kthx
Rookie
To be fair Trindon is only a few inches shorter and about twenty lbs lighter than Woodhead is and that guy manages pretty well. I just hope that since he basically got drafted to become a returner in the first place that he doesn't have any bad habits like JJ does as far as taking that side step. I just want someone who catches the ball and takes off downfield instead of across the field or towards the back of the field.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Definitely apples and apples on size. I personally didn't like them getting rid of Moses. They did it to have more of a home run threat. Trindon certainly gives that with his speed, but what I liked about Moses was his dependability and average. Return TD's are rare. I'll take an extra 8 yards of average field position on 50 returns rather than 1 TD return. The other thing I loved about Moses was how he fielded the ball with two hands at or above his head rather than trying to basket catch at his belly.
Foster was the starter. OgBo was only backup because Tate and Ward weren't fully healed.
I won't predict a win but I think the OL is embarrassed and is going to come out with a serious head of steam. Hopefully that translates to 5 ypc like it did last year against the Ravens.
It is a mechanism for recognizing exceptional posts whether good or bad although on this MB most people don't use negative rep much at all. Generally it is used for a kind of "damn you nailed that on the head" approval of a post.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
No Porky I don't. I am not a season ticket holder either. I barely pay attention to the team.....and not everyone is ASS-tute as you.
By 4th in the leauge you mean 4th in the AFC.....right? As someone already mentioned. Except that stat is wrong too. Pesky little details and all. He's 17th in the NFL and 8th in the AFC! Stat wise his mediocre at best.
Do YOU watch the actual games? Do you make up your own stats as you go?
Perhaps you should read the rest of the thread before commenting, where this is covered and I state my memory and perception may be doing him a little disservice.
I stand by comment of him knealing the ball though. I was implying when he gets it 6 yards deep or more in the endzone he runs it out and shouldn't, that's when I scream at the TV!!! He doesn't get back to the 20 in those cases. I fully expect him to bring it out only a few yards deep or less. He has done much better when that is the case, again going by memory. Too bad they don't break out the stat by yards per return based on how deep they are when the received the ball.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...rience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go
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Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
For the time and effort it took you to quote yourself, you would have,been finished reading through this thread. You lazy sumbitch.
Kubiak wants JJ and Manning to focus on their positions. Manning is in on 70+ snaps in addition to the return game. He's tired.
I'll need to go back and watch the film to get that cleaned up. That's on me.
Regards,
Gary
Well you're not supposed to say the old #8's name. That is instant neg rep. Bad JuJu for the Texans man. HWWNBN. Or you can call him Autoo anything but his name.
Mike
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Who mentioned HWWNBN???
Txn4life did. That's why this whole thing started. The football Gods knew he was going to do it and they punched JJ in the brain with 8 seconds to go in the game. Yes. I now add him to the list of people to blame for the Oakland loss.
Mike
Txn4life did. That's why this whole thing started. The football Gods knew he was going to do it and they punched JJ in the brain with 8 seconds to go in the game. Yes. I now add him to the list of people to blame for the Oakland loss.
Mike
Forgive me for not believing in any of that foolishness. If I say his name 3 times in the mirror will he show up and sack me in retaliation for all the punishment he took here?
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
No, but he might fire a football at you, miss and zing past your wife's head.
Then he'll either A) run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, or B) hit the turf, commencing an instant fetal position
GP
Go Texans!
I consider the #1 and #2 RBs to both be starters. They get switched out all game long, rather than being a benched player who would only come on in scenarios of injuries or a coach demoting the 1st string guy.
Semantics.
panamamyers
Waterboy
Brandon Banks makes Holliday look like Jim Brown, and Banks has done just fine with Washington.
