Amen, brother.
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Greg Cossell Talks NFL Draft
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
Amen, brother.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
this class reminds me of the QB's taken in the first 12 picks of the '99 draft. Tim Couch, Akili Smith Cade McNown, Culpepper, and Donovan McNabb. Many of those teams hit for singles or struck out instead of getting a long term solution.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Clearly? (In response to Logan Thomas quote)
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Yep, he emphasized that word... but Combine throws can't come close to overshadowing his tape or even Senior Bowl week.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
so why not take someone special (Greg Robinson) then target QB later if disparity between so call 1st tier is not so much over so called 2nd tier?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Which is what TK has been proposing since day one in various and roundabout ways.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
There was an interesting point made by Seth (I believe) on 610 Mad Radio that the two best teams in the NFL were not your high powered offensive juggernauts but smash you in the mouth shove it down your throat ball control teams, San Francisco & Seattle. I have no problem setting the OL for your future franchise (whoever that maybe) QB to develop & run Bill O'Brian offense. Somebody help me here but don't think Auburn (Robinson) ever faced South Carolina (Clowney) in the last couple years when both played? But if you actually watch game film of both there is no way Robinson doesn't dominate Clowney, Jadeveon probably leaves the game with bruised ego, I mean hamstring pull.... Having a truly stellar OL is something fans would warm up to as they witness some serious pancake crushing & lane openings (like on your commute home from work) as Bill develops his next great QB off the scrape heap
And so have I, only more directly.
Any first round pick - ESPECIALLY one in the top five - needs to be ready to step right in and start.
TexansFTW
Veteran
We do this same song and dance in circles in every new thread that comes out.
To all the people that say IF there is no difference between the 1st and 2nd round QBs why not just draft one later...
That is called common sense. No one has ONCE disagreed with that OBVIOUS statement.
What these 100+ pages of saying the same thing say is if that is the case then go for it, but most of us debating this say THIS IS NOT the case. We believe there is a HELLUVA (hell of a) difference and one of those guys is going to make us pay dearly if we pass on him.
Look around at all your older scouts too, just about every 70+ year old scout like Cosell seems to start with size then begin their evaluation. If you're not 6'4+ 230+ then you are dead to that crop of old school scouts before the evaluation even begins.
To all the people that say IF there is no difference between the 1st and 2nd round QBs why not just draft one later...
That is called common sense. No one has ONCE disagreed with that OBVIOUS statement.
What these 100+ pages of saying the same thing say is if that is the case then go for it, but most of us debating this say THIS IS NOT the case. We believe there is a HELLUVA (hell of a) difference and one of those guys is going to make us pay dearly if we pass on him.
Look around at all your older scouts too, just about every 70+ year old scout like Cosell seems to start with size then begin their evaluation. If you're not 6'4+ 230+ then you are dead to that crop of old school scouts before the evaluation even begins.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not necessarily you but when this kind of statement is made it is generally implying "so they get by with lesser or game manager QBs." San Fran and Seattle had 7 4th qtr comebacks and 9 game winning drives. Their QBs also contributed 1061 yds of generally off-script rushing yardage. Wilson had 1 more attempt with the ball thrown over 20 yards than Peyton Manning and just 2 less than Tom Brady. Both teams certainly love rushing but they weren't by any means carrying their QBs.
Stats are deceiving. Those two teams are stacked. Neither of those two QB's have anywhere near that success on the Browns.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And neither of those two teams have anywhere near that success with two joe schmoes at QB. The stats are not deceiving in this instance.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
I see it more of a perfect storm when all those high picks on Defensive & Offensive lines develop continuity which allows backside to play instinctual, confident w/authority, paired with strong running game & balanced passing attack with nurtured, young & talented QB's.
I think the biggest difference between Seattle last year & the Texans (other than Schaub's lingering issue concerns) was that their game manager knew when to take chances, & when not. Then when he took those chances, he was better at it than ours... then our starting & back up running backs got hurt, & our starting TE. & his defense didn't suck.
Other than that, we were pretty much the same.
I hear what you're saying but the Niners had success - got to the NFC title game - with a guy everyone had written off as a bust, Alex Smith, because they weren't greatly dependent on "elite" QB play carrying the team.
No team will be successful with poor QB play. I'm sure everyone here feels that to be obvious. But, OTOH, superior/"elite-level" QB play only won't carry a team very far on it's own either.
I guess the real evaluation that needs to be done is:
How Close Are We?
What pieces are we missing?
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Scooter
Funky
sure they do, alex smith was game managing the best team in the league until injury. both quarterbacks this year averaged about 200yds per game passing. what they did well was keep the mistakes down (better than 2-1 td/int) and convert timely third downs with their feet. they did exactly what was required to let the better team win. the current 49ers and seahawks are rob johnson and trent dilfer type teams, that through several down years and great late additions were able to add significant talent and land great coaching.
edit: brain fart - brad johnson
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There is a lot of room in between joe schmoe which is what is being argued (see below) and elite.
Smith had erased bust over the prior season and a half. Game manager still yes. He also disproves the joe schmoe exaggeration. What happened to him? - he went to a losing team who saw him as more than joe schmoe and primarily through improved QB play had one of the greatest turnaround seasons ever.
And the coach believing your argument is wrong took the first opportunity to upgrade Smith.
And that nullified anything stated around it. Wrong Johnson. The Seahawks don't sniff the SB last year with Trent Dilfer at QB. But thank you for illustrating the hyperbole being slung on this. Kaep and especially Wilson are not useless remoras their teams are winning in spite of. They are providing above average QB play. Saying their teams would still win with below average QB play is not credible.
Obviously having a good D and running game helps any QB. Doesn't mean they'd have the same success with any QB. It also doesn't mean any QB they have is a joe schmoe. The Texans were trying for the same thing. When they failed on both their non-elite QB led the league in passing. joe schmoe doesn't do that.
TexansFTW
Veteran
With a very similarly constructed team the Texans went into the 2nd round of the playoffs led by the ultimate Joe Schmoe at QB.
The Hawks and 9ers have better than Joe Schmoe, I think they are average (14-17 QB range), and I believe almost any average QB can have similar success on those teams.
Yates was just far below average.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
hahaha, purely from draft perspective.
Big improvement with coaching changes (Carroll & Harbaugh) hopefully something similar happens 4 Texans w/OB.
as far as the respective GM's work & how they stack up compared to Rick Smith tenure here as GM I think you can see pretty clearly he has under-performed. even when they reach for a player like Bruce Irvin or Michael Jenkins it doesn't cripple them, it's very hard for me to believe that drawing blanks on Brennan Williams & Sam Montgomery could devastate a team but it did because both positions needed immediate impact players. San Fran has three #1 draft picks dedicated to their OL, Seattle 2 w/high 2nd on starting Center Max Unger from Oregon. Texans have one, Duane Brown, late 1st 26th overall. You wanna know why the Texans QB continue to struggle @ the QB position & have such a hard time in the red zone, that is a large piece, IMO.
San Francisco
2013 1 1 18 18 Eric Reid DB Louisiana State
2 2 8 40 Cornellius Carradine DE Florida State
3 2 23 55 Vance McDonald TE Rice
4 3 26 88 Corey Lemonier DE Auburn
5 4 31 128 Quinton Patton WR Louisiana Tech
6 4 34 131 Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina
7 5 24 157 Quinton Dial DE Alabama
8 6 12 180 Nick Moody LB Florida State
9 7 31 237 B.J. Daniels QB South Florida
10 7 40 246 Carter Bykowski T Iowa State
11 7 46 252 Marcus Cooper DB Rutgers
2012 1 1 30 30 A.J. Jenkins WR Illinois
2 2 29 61 LaMichael James RB Oregon
3 4 22 117 Joe Looney G Wake Forest
4 5 30 165 Darius Fleming LB Notre Dame
5 6 10 180 Trent Robinson DB Michigan State
6 6 29 199 Jason Slowey C Western Oregon
7 7 30 237 Cam Johnson DE Virginia
2011 1 1 7 7 Aldon Smith DE Missouri
2 2 4 36 Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada
3 3 16 80 Chris Culliver DB South Carolina
4 4 18 115 Kendall Hunter RB Oklahoma State
5 5 32 163 Daniel Kilgore G Appalachian State
6 6 17 182 Ronald Johnson WR USC
7 6 25 190 Colin Jones DB Texas Christian
8 7 8 211 Bruce Miller LB Central Florida
9 7 36 239 Michael Person G Montana State
10 7 47 250 Curtis Holcomb DB Florida A&M
2010 1 1 11 11 Anthony Davis T Rutgers
2 1 17 17 Mike Iupati G Idaho
3 2 17 49 Taylor Mays DB USC
4 3 27 91 Navorro Bowman LB Penn State
5 6 4 173 Anthony Dixon RB Mississippi State
6 6 13 182 Nate Byham TE Pittsburgh
7 6 37 206 Kyle Williams WR Arizona State
8 7 17 224 Phillip Adams DB South Carolina State
2009 1 1 10 10 Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech
2 3 10 74 Glen Coffee RB Alabama
3 5 10 146 Scott McKillop LB Pittsburgh
4 5 35 171 Nate Davis QB Ball State
5 6 11 184 Bear Pascoe TE Fresno State
6 7 10 219 Curtis Taylor DB Louisiana State
7 7 35 244 Ricky Jean Francois DT Louisiana State
2008 1 1 29 29 Kentwan Ballmer DT North Carolina
2 2 8 39 Chilo Rachal G USC
3 3 12 75 Reggie Smith DB Oklahoma
4 4 8 107 Cody Wallace C Texas A&M
5 6 8 174 Josh Morgan WR Virginia Tech
6 7 7 214 Larry Grant LB Ohio State
2007 1 1 11 11 Patrick Willis LB Mississippi
2 1 28 28 Joe Staley T Central Michigan
3 3 12 76 Jason Hill WR Washington State
4 3 34 97 Ray McDonald DT Florida
5 4 5 104 Jay Moore DE Nebraska
6 4 27 126 Dashon Goldson DB Washington
7 4 36 135 Joe Cohen DT Florida
8 5 10 147 Tarell Brown DB Texas
9 6 12 186 Thomas Clayton RB Kansas State
Seattle -
2013 1 2 30 62 Christine Michael RB Texas A&M
2 3 25 87 Jordan Hill DT Penn State
3 4 26 123 Chris Harper WR Kansas State
4 5 4 137 Jesse Williams DT Alabama
5 5 5 138 Tharold Simon DB Louisiana State
6 5 25 158 Luke Willson TE Rice
7 6 26 194 Spencer Ware RB Louisiana State
8 7 14 220 Ryan Seymour G Vanderbilt
9 7 25 231 Ty Powell DE Harding
10 7 35 241 Jared Smith DT New Hampshire
11 7 36 242 Michael Bowie T NE Oklahoma State
2012 1 1 15 15 Bruce Irvin DE West Virginia
2 2 15 47 Bobby Wagner LB Utah State
3 3 12 75 Russell Wilson QB Wisconsin
4 4 11 106 Robert Turbin RB Utah State
5 4 19 114 Jaye Howard DT Florida
6 5 19 154 Korey Toomer LB Idaho
7 6 2 172 Jeremy Lane DB Northwestern State (LA)
8 6 11 181 Winston Guy DB Kentucky
9 7 18 225 J R Sweezy DE North Carolina State
10 7 25 232 Greg Scruggs DE Louisville
2011 1 1 25 25 James Carpenter T Alabama
2 3 11 75 John Moffitt G Wisconsin
3 4 2 99 K.J. Wright LB Mississippi State
4 4 10 107 Kris Durham WR Georgia
5 5 23 154 Richard Sherman DB Stanford
6 5 25 156 Mark Legree DB Appalachian State
7 6 8 173 Byron Maxwell DB Clemson
8 7 2 205 Lazarius Levingston DE Louisiana State
9 7 39 242 Malcolm Smith LB USC
2010 1 1 6 6 Russell Okung T Oklahoma State
2 1 14 14 Earl Thomas DB Texas
3 2 28 60 Golden Tate WR Notre Dame
4 4 13 111 Walter Thurmond DB Oregon
5 4 29 127 E.J. Wilson DE North Carolina
6 5 2 133 Kam Chancellor DB Virginia Tech
7 6 16 185 Anthony McCoy TE USC
8 7 29 236 Dexter Davis LB Arizona
9 7 38 245 Jameson Konz RB Kent State
2009 1 1 4 4 Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest
2 2 17 49 Max Unger C Oregon
3 3 27 91 Deon Butler WR Penn State
4 6 5 178 Mike Teel QB Rutgers
5 7 36 245 Courtney Greene DB Rutgers
6 7 38 247 Nick Reed DE Oregon
7 7 39 248 Cameron Morrah TE California
2008 1 1 28 28 Lawrence Jackson DE USC
2 2 7 38 John Carlson TE Notre Dame
3 4 22 121 Red Bryant DT Texas A&M
4 5 28 163 Owen Schmitt RB West Virginia
5 6 23 189 Tyler Schmitt C San Diego State
6 7 26 233 Justin Forsett RB California
7 7 28 235 Brandon Coutu K Georgia
2007 1 2 23 55 Josh Wilson DB Maryland
2 3 22 85 Brandon Mebane DT California
3 4 21 120 Baraka Atkins DE Miami (FL)
4 4 25 124 Mansfield Wrotto G Georgia Tech
5 5 24 161 Will Herring LB Auburn
6 6 23 197 Courtney Taylor WR Auburn
7 6 36 210 Jordan Kent WR Oregon
8 7 22 232 Steve Vallos T Wake Forest
Texans
2013 1 1 27 27 DeAndre Hopkins WR Clemson
2 2 25 57 D.J. Swearinger DB South Carolina
3 3 27 89 Brennan Williams T North Carolina
4 3 33 95 Sam Montgomery DE Louisiana State
5 4 27 124 Trevardo Williams DE Connecticut
6 6 8 176 David Quessenberry T San Jose State
7 6 27 195 Alan Bonner WR Jacksonville State
8 6 30 198 Chris Jones DT Bowling Green
9 6 33 201 Ryan Griffin TE Connecticut
2012 1 1 26 26 Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois
2 3 5 68 Devier Posey WR Ohio State
3 3 13 76 Brandon Brooks G Miami (OH)
4 4 4 99 Ben Jones C Georgia
5 4 26 121 Keshawn Martin WR Michigan State
6 4 31 126 Jared Crick DT Nebraska
7 5 26 161 Randy Bullock K Texas A&M
8 6 25 195 Nick Mondek T Purdue
2011 1 1 11 11 J.J. Watt DE Wisconsin
2 2 10 42 Brooks Reed DE Arizona
3 2 28 60 Brandon Harris DB Miami (FL)
4 4 30 127 Rashad Carmichael DB Virginia Tech
5 5 13 144 Shiloh Keo DB Idaho
6 5 21 152 T.J. Yates QB North Carolina
7 7 11 214 Derek Newton T Arkansas State
8 7 51 254 Cheta Ozougwu DE Rice
2010 1 1 20 20 Kareem Jackson DB Alabama
2 2 26 58 Ben Tate RB Auburn
3 3 17 81 Earl Mitchell DT Arizona
4 4 4 102 Darryl Sharpton LB Miami (FL)
5 4 20 118 Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin
6 5 13 144 Sherrick McManis DB Northwestern
7 6 18 187 Shelley Smith G Colorado State
8 6 28 197 Trindon Holliday RB Louisiana State
9 7 20 227 Dorin Dickerson TE Pittsburgh
2009 1 1 15 15 Brian Cushing LB USC
2 2 14 46 Connor Barwin DE Cincinnati
3 3 13 77 Antoine Caldwell C Alabama
4 4 12 112 Glover Quin DB New Mexico
5 4 22 122 Anthony Hill TE North Carolina State
6 5 16 152 James Casey TE Rice
7 6 15 188 Brice McCain DB Utah
8 7 14 223 Troy Nolan DB Arizona State
2008 1 1 26 26 Duane Brown T Virginia Tech
2 3 16 79 Antwaun Molden DB Eastern Kentucky
3 3 26 89 Steve Slaton RB West Virginia
4 4 19 118 Xavier Adibi LB Virginia Tech
5 5 16 151 Frank Okam DT Texas
6 6 7 173 Dominique Barber DB Minnesota
7 7 16 223 Alex Brink QB Washington State
2007 1 1 10 10 Amobi Okoye DT Louisville
2 3 9 73 Jacoby Jones WR Lane
3 4 24 123 Fred Bennett DB South Carolina
4 5 7 144 Brandon Harrison DB Stanford
5 5 26 163 Brandon Frye T Virginia Tech
6 6 9 183 Kasey Studdard G Texas
7 7 8 218 Zach Diles LB Kansas State
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The Texans wouldn't have been in the playoffs to carry Yates through 1 playoff game without Schaub. Thanks for proving my point.
And I think that is complete and utter hogwash, no offense intended. There is a reason getting to the SB much less winning with someone like Dilfer is noteworthy - it is exceptional. It is not the norm. It is unreasonable to apply it as ordinary.
But y'all carry on with this ridiculous Dilfer/Wilson comparison. I don't see the Seahawks dumping their QB like the Ravens did.
Russell Wilson 2013 - 4 4th qtr comebacks, 5 (league leading) game winning drives
Dilfer & BJ combined - 1 4th qtr comeback, 2 game winning drives
I don't think anyone is saying we can succeed with a "joe schmoe". We'll need at a minimum "Good Schaub" (think 2009) level play from our QB to have any chance to succeed. Kinda like the current version of Alex Smith.
But, given the questions we have up and down the roster, I have serious reservations on whether we could succeed with P. Manning or T. Brady at QB.
- The right side of the O-line is shoddy. Any argument here? Didn't think so.
- The D-line needs quality depth - and that's even with Mitchell and Ninja still here. If they leave the D-line rotation is a disaster.
- We need upgrades at CB because once you get past K-Jax and J-Jo (and some say that he's suspect) we got nuthin'.
- We're only two deep at TE.
- Since Tate is going on the F/A mkt we're only one-deep at RB and he's coming off back issues serious enough to sideline him for the whole year.
- Cushing is the only solid player we have at LB - inside or outside.
...did I miss anything?
The only quasi-strong positions on the team are WR and safety; and some would argue that safety is weak.
And folks think drafting a Bridgewater or a Manziel or a Bortles is gonna fix all that stuff? We're not strong enough elsewhere - ANYwhere - for a rookie QB to be a quick fix.
We need more picks.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Russell Wilson won the Super Bowl in his "sophomore slump" year. He is so much more than a game manager that the statement is silly. Go and read about what changed in Seattle after Wilson arrived. It took about two weeks or so before the team began to realize that this kid was serious -- his example changed the culture of that locker room. Think about that. Can he be Alex Smith but with an arm, avoiding costly mistakes? Sure he can. But then add his play outside of structure to beat you by extending plays or running, like he did at Houston.
Nobody will be knocking the 'Hawks door down trying to steal those WRs away, either, outside of Harvin who took 68 snaps all year. They'd disappear on majority of other teams. Through the roof intangibles, rated 4th/42 QBs in 2013 (>25% snaps, PFF), and a ring. Wilson = good.
Nobody will be knocking the 'Hawks door down trying to steal those WRs away, either, outside of Harvin who took 68 snaps all year. They'd disappear on majority of other teams. Through the roof intangibles, rated 4th/42 QBs in 2013 (>25% snaps, PFF), and a ring. Wilson = good.
I don't think anyone believes any of those three are going to do anything other than "solve" our QB situation. We're going to have to get a QB just like we're going to have to fix that OL.
They're just tired of waiting on fixing the QB, like you're tired of waiting to fix the OL.
TexansFTW
Veteran
Schaub went out in week 10 and we were 7-3. Hardly a lock for the playoffs. Point not proven.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Whoever the dude is around here that judges players by how they dress should get a kick out of Mettenberger
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I didn't say they were a lock. It's right there in what you quoted. I said they wouldn't have made it without him starting those 10 games. The Texans without Schaub went 3-3. Now I am no rocket scientist but 3-3 is a substantial downgrade from 7-3 I think. A season of .500 ball would not have made the playoffs.
Scooter
Funky
it's kinda funny the 3 quarterbacks brought up have near identical stats last season. 3100-3300 passing yards, 400-500 rushing yards, and very efficient TD/INT ratios. these arent drew brees or peyton manning numbers. they're efficient numbers that speak of great run games and teams that arent asking the quarterbacks to carry them. we'll see exactly what these quarterbacks are when the talent around them gets too expensive to keep and they're asked to be more than quietly efficient.
the difference between these 3 and matt schaub when it counted is that they were better at converting key 3rd downs - especially with their feet. 200 yards passing isnt scaring anyone, but when you're talking about great run games and even better defenses, 200 yards and important conversions makes a quarterback look great. at the same time the 4000 yards and missed conversions makes another guy a failure.
i meant dilfer (ravens) and brad johnson (bucs). joes on great teams that were able to simply allow the better team to win. wilson and kaep arent joes, and they're not useless remoras (had to look that one up lol). i dont think anyone said they were. what i'm saying is they are in no way carrying their teams, and those teams are good enough that they most certainly could win just as well with guys who are able to simply keep from turning the ball over.
i and a few others are advocating building with this approach in mind. not to ignore the quarterback position, but to build the areas that keep the quarterback's requirements down so that whoever we do go with doesnt have to carry the team like these quarterbacks being mentioned. 3000 passing yards, 400 rushing, and dont turn the ball over. despite being a passing league, this is today's recipe for success. however, it only wins games with a very good defense and a dominant offensive line that allows for those conversion opportunities. IMO keenum could put those numbers up, or possibly yates if they had the offensive line addressed and all other resources going to the linebackers.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The numbers only look limited and not like Manning because you are cherry picking which ones you look at. There is a spread even among the three with Wilson doing much more than the other two. That is reflected in his QB rating of 101.2 v. 91.6 (Kaep) and 89.1 (Smith). That Wilson does more than just hand the ball off and more than his low yardage indicates is reflected in having 1 more attempt over 20 yards thrown than Manning and 2 less than Brady on 252 attempts less than Manning and 221 attempts less than Brady. Wilson is way above Kaep and Smith and his team is the one with rings. You also ignored numbers like how Wilson brought his team back on game winning drives and 4 qtr comebacks (Kaep as well to a lesser degree) while Smith, BJ and Dilfer did not.
The bold is where I think you go off the rails. There simply is no substance or support for it. Even among the three, the better QB elevated his team over the others. Just like it isn't elite or joe schmoe (there is a middle), it isn't joe schmoe or carry - there is a continuum of elevating the team with improved performance. Frankly arguing otherwise defies all logic. Completing a few % points less is less 1st downs, completing for 1 ypa less is longer 3rd downs and less 1st downs, not being able to throw downfield (which Harbaugh and Reid either don't trust or the QBs can't do) limits the offense and assists the opposing D.
I have no problem at all building a team to keep the QB requirements down. That doesn't mean every QB who plays on a well built team is a fungible joe schmoe. That attitude is one destined for failure because you still need elevating QB play. As far as I am concerned only two schmoes have ever been carried to rings. They are exceptions and if you shoot for that you are bucking the rule.
Exactly.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Isn't this a coaching problem? You get locked in on a QB who is "OK" and find it hard to replace him because that player is the veteran "starter". If you build a winning team around this concept, you must be willing to go after your QB at some point. In part, this also includes the front office and the way they structure the contracts that would allow you to release your veteran starter at minimal cost.
I don't know if it's a coaching problem, or a GM problem, or if our front office as a whole had the problem. If they thought Schaub was a franchise QB, they should have signed him to a franchise deal & not that Texans friendly contract they signed him to.
We were 4 years in with an 8 year veteran QB. They "questioned" if he was a franchise QB, but the best they could do was bring in Tj Yates. We traded back into the second for a DB that has seen spot duty at best (I like Harris btw).
That could have been Ryan Mallet.
We took a flyer on Devier Posey with the 68th pick in the 2012 draft. That could have been Wilson or Foles (& I like Posey but we used a 1st on a WR the very next year).
Good stuff.
Cosell's breakdown of important QB prospects in this Draft was good until you get to Manziel, and that piece of his presentation I thought was excellent and just reinforced my convictions that O'Brien wouldn't want to get close to JM, even if he's there for our taking at the beginning of the second round.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
This would actually have merit if he had shown any ability to operate that offense. Just because he played in a pro system doesn't mean he's any further ahead than anybody else. Luck and Bridgewater both played in pro systems, but they also proved they knew and understood the intricacies of the offense. Never saw anything like that from Thomas.
I would also stop way short of proclaiming that a guy with a career 55.6% completion percentage and 53 TD : 39 INT ratio is a more natural passer than anyone. Regardless of offensive system.
This reflects what I've been saying from the beginning. I thought it was curious that his throws outside the numbers were rarely simple out routes. A staple of NFL offenses. You would see come backs & curls, which by design generates lots of separation because the defense has no idea when you're breaking off that route. It's multiplied when you're not playing the best of the best on a weakly basis.
At the combine, it is probably the most common route QBs are asked to throw; quick out, short out, intermediate out, & deep outs. Practically anyone can throw the route, but very few can throw it with the zip & pop needed at the NFL level.
At the pro day, it's also a featured route. At Teddy's pro day you could see, clearly see the lack of velocity. I don't think the accuracy he displayed surprised anyone, but the lack of velocity he consistently displayed on film & at his pro-day on routes thrown outside the numbers.
Not enough to drop him to a second round grade, imo... but there are enough QBs with the same mid-first grade that I wouldn't be surprised if he falls as it becomes more a matter of preference than arithmetic.
Texian
Hall of Fame
If this was McShay, Jeremiah or Miller making these comments I wouldn't give them much weight. However since it is Greg Cosell, this story has my attention. Before the Teddybots start, yes I read what he said about Bortles. Bortles is a coaching issue that can easily be changed or fixed. Teddy's problems not so much.
If I thought that, I wouldn't think of him as a mid 1st, late 2nd round pick. I think he can gain more velocity on his throws, working on his mechanics & core strength (weight), he can dramatically increase his ball velocity.
If he's got a coach who identifies it right away & corrects it before he's expected to win games.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Fixing footwork and grip pressure is one thing but taking a kid who can only throw an 80 MPH fastball and say ok now I want you to throw it 95 MPH is another. If it was that simple everyone would be throwing 95 MPH.