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GET BUSH, or else................
- Thread starter HOOK'EM
- Start date
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Goldeagle said:
I would think that by now the Texans should have made it clear that they don't think they need all those draft picks that the rights to Reggie Bush would get us. Look at what's happening. Capers and his staff are out the door and Dan Reeves has endorsed the job that Charlie Casserly has done. They believe that the team has talent, the coaching stunk, and Pitts is the answer at LT.
Dan Reeves said it, Charlie Casserly promptly agreed with him, and Bob McNair believed it. Now they're going to go back to Bob and tell him that the "Next Gayle Sayers" isn't going to be playing for him because the team is full of holes and the 7 picks we have in this draft won't be enough to correct things? They're going to tell him that Charlie is going to have to "Do some wheelin-n-dealin with that pick that represents the greatest running back to ever live (or some such hype)? Casserly is going to do that with the memory of Phillip Buchanon fresh in Bob's memory?
I know you all read the interview in the Chronic where McNair basically hung Casserly out to dry over that. If you think that Bob is now thinking that was no big deal then you're mistaken. He thinks Casserly has done more right than wrong but he knows damned well that Casserly can waste some picks if given half a chance. You think he's going to give him this one?
Bush declares and he's a Texan. Not a doubt in my mind.
Whether they're right or wrong at this point makes no difference. The Texans don't think they're that hard up for talent and they're not going to pass on this (supposedly) once in a lifetime talent with the top pick in the draft. I personally want to see them select him but even if I didn't I'd still have to conceed that in all likelyhood the only thing that can keep the Texans from selecting him is injury in the Rose Bowl.
BattleRedTexan
Noob
I agree with you 100%!!! We need to draft Reggie Bush and KEEP HIM!
Anyone saying that we should trade the #1 pick, or draft Reggie and then trade him is an !d!0t
I would rather draft Reggie and trade Dominic Davis (although I would prefer to have Reggie and DD).
I think everyone would agree that if you have a chance to draft a special/rare player like Reggie Bush then you DO IT! Reggie Bush will end up being the premier running back in the NFL. If we don't draft him we will be kicking ourselves for a very long time.
To make a comparison to basketball... passing on Reggie Bush would be like passing on a Michael Jordan caliber player.
Reggie Bush is a DIFFERENCE MAKER!
Anyone saying that we should trade the #1 pick, or draft Reggie and then trade him is an !d!0t
I would rather draft Reggie and trade Dominic Davis (although I would prefer to have Reggie and DD).
I think everyone would agree that if you have a chance to draft a special/rare player like Reggie Bush then you DO IT! Reggie Bush will end up being the premier running back in the NFL. If we don't draft him we will be kicking ourselves for a very long time.
To make a comparison to basketball... passing on Reggie Bush would be like passing on a Michael Jordan caliber player.
Reggie Bush is a DIFFERENCE MAKER!
CenTexNative
Waterboy
I could not agree with you more.Goldeagle said:
BattleRedTexan said:
Was Barry Sanders Special?
Hell yes he was.
Did Detroit ever amount to anything?
No
One guy will not fix Houston's problem's no matter how godly people think he could be.
Reggie is a awesome College player. No one can know what the NFL has awaiting him. He could get hurt in training camp and thats all she wrote.
Gale sayers was great, then he got hurt and he lost his super human powers.
Chicago was pretty good when he played but I don't remember them winning the Superbowl.
I think that the Texans can get a very good group of players If they give up Mr. Bush. I think that they would have an imediate impact in many of the Texans weak areas.
CoastalTexan
Waterboy
The basketball comparison is stupid. In basketball you have 5 players playing defense and offense. In football you have 22 Starters. 5 vs. 22, do the math. But IF we can get colledge(LT) or someone similar in the 2nd I dont disagree with the bush pick.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
zeplin said:
If this was Slashdot I'd moderate this post "-1 Offtopic" because what Barry Sanders did or didn't do with the Detroit Lions (or Gayle Sayers with the Bears) has absolutely nothing to do with the decision the Texans have to make regarding what to do with the first pick of the draft.
The Lions fail to win a Super Bowl while Barry Sanders is playing for them and you blame Barry Sanders? Gayle Sayers was great but he got hurt and they didn't go to a Super Bowl so you say "Don't draft someone like Gayle Sayers"?
If Emmitt Smith had torn his knee up (hell, make it both knees) and finished his career with 2,000 yards in a little under two seasons you probably would be saying that he was a lousy pick too. They were really bad back then, they should have traded him for picks right? If the Cowboys had drafted him and then completely failed year after year to build a good team around him you would probably be saying it was his fault.
zeplin said:
Well, they don't appear to be thinking that. They appear to me to be thinking that Reggie Bush is going to look mighty sweet in a Texans uniform next season. Maybe it's all a ruse to try and bring on the big trade but I don't think so.
They don't appear to me to believe that they have a big talent problem so why give up Reggie Bush to address it if you don't think it's there to begin with?
vtech9
All Pro
RTP2110 said:
I don't get it, what does Tennessee have to do with our first pick and Reggie Bush?? The only way that Tennessee would have a chance of getting Bush is if they traded up with us to get him. Most likely, if there is a trade, it would be to another team wanting to jump ahead to make sure they get Bush. We don't need Bush, we need O-Linemen. McNair knows this, so I don't think he would have any problem at all with trading Bush away for more picks. However, if we can't do a trade, we almost have to draft Bush. We can't just let him go to another team for free. If we do get Bush and keep him, we are pretty much writing off Morrency and Wells. With DD's contract, he doesn't really have much trade value, so trading DD is out of the question. I also have a sinking feeling that if the Texans do take Bush and keep him, there will be a lot of resentment by the current Texans players.
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
Goldeagle said:
i agree here why would we want reggie when we know for a fact that dom davis can carry the load all season he never misses any games
besides game breakers are over-rated.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
It's a deep OL draft, though. (for those saying the Texans need OL). With 4 of the 1st 66 picks, the Texans can improve their line with guys like Mangold from Ohio State and Jean-Gilles from Georgia without giving up a player of Bush's caliber. The Texans don't need the best OL in the world. They need more talent and at least one of those guys would be available with pick #33 and would immediately upgrade the line. There is no guarantee on a high OL draft pick just as there is no guarantee on Bush being the best player to ever step on a football field. (at least that's what the hype makes us believe). If the Texans can grab 2 solid linemen in the 1st 3 rounds they will be in much better shape.
RTP2110
All Pro
vtech9 said:
The original poster was saying that if we pass on Bush at #1 there's a good chance he would be drafted by Tennessee at #3.
Edit: Now that I think about it, there's no way we would pass on Bush and draft someone else #1. If the Texans didnt want Bush they would trade down with someone who would draft Bush at #1. So the only way it would be TEN would get Bush is if we trade with them. I see your point now vtech.
LBC_Justin
Rookie
It is now the offseason for us. Pretty much everything is going to be draft talk at this point.A4toZ said:
Big B Texan Fan
Veteran
No it's not.CoastalTexan said:
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Hervoyel said:
You are absolutely right. If we had 38 holes on our team then Charley Casserly wouldn't have a job right now. Obviously people who have professional experience in evaluating football talent believe that our players are not the problem. Our record may reflect our horrendous play calling. NFL teams don't go entire games only throwing 7 yard hitch passes. NFL teams don't have 1 audible which is run to the left. NFL teams also don't play ultra conservative one week at the end of a game and then ultra aggressive the next. What is the same thing that we heard in interviews with players after the games? Two things in particular. One: "It's not the talent", and two: "We didn't adjust in the second half".
How many games were there where we were actually in the game in the first half only to get blown out in the second half or collapse in the fourth quarter?
Look at our offensive performance when David Carr called the plays compared to when Pendry or Palmer called the plays.
Look at the sack numbers compared to before Pendry and after Pendry.
Our major problem is that we have a very stagnant offense. We have only one receiver who is a touchdown threat and two receivers who either can't catch the ball or can't create separation. This means that our touchdown threat isn't going to be getting too many single coverage situations down the field. We have a solid running back who is a work horse and can do the dirty work, but not one that is a potential touchdown threat every single time he touches the ball. Luckily for us, we can fill two of our offensive needs with one player and he happens to be the best player in college football.
We do have some offensive line issues, but I believe that a major issue that we have with the line is that we are constantly rotating people in and out every other game. The line needs to work together and have experience working together and when we are constantly shifting everything it really does damage to the cohesion of the line. Next year we should choose a line and stick with it. Make changes due to injury, but not because we are curious how someone will perform at the position. This year's draft is extremely deep with OL talent. We are not really looking for a LT because Chester Pitts has been doing well at the position and never should have been moved the first time. RT's are much easier to acquire and generally you do not have to use a top pick to get a quality RT. We should be able to pick up a RT like Winston Justice or Jonathan Scott (both of which would be serviceable at the position) with the 33rd pick. We also could also shore up the line by picking up a guard with our 33rd pick. We could get a player like Max Jean-Gilles or Davin Joseph and they would do wonders to improve our line.
vtech9 said:
Mcnair likes Bush, and has tried avoiding revamping the O-line his whole tenure in H-Town.
RTP2110 said:
Not necessarily. Just about every team in the league either has a decent RB or recently drafted one in the first round. However, teams like the Jets and Saints desperately need a QB. So it is very possible that Leinert may end up being drafted first and Bush farther on down. Besides, RBs are overrated. Denver changes them every other year and still succeeds. The Colts were willing to let James go and the same with the Seahawks and Alexander. Going ga-ga over a RB is pretty silly -- especially when drafting a RB won't do a thing to help your rushing or passing D, not to mention pass protection. This is the REAL NFL, not some fantasy football league.
BattleRedTexan
Noob
Reggie Bush is a "human highlight reel."
He is a player that will increase ticket sales, increase Texans jersey sales, and will get the media attention that every team wants.
All of that, and he can freakin' PLAY!
He is a player that will increase ticket sales, increase Texans jersey sales, and will get the media attention that every team wants.
All of that, and he can freakin' PLAY!
BigDTexansFan
Rookie
Actually all this Reggie Bush talk is ALL academic, IF he doesn't declare for draft(reportedly he wanted SF or NY to get #1) OR gets hurt in Rose Bowl...remember Willis MacGahee. So I think we should concetrate on what we have.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
If nothing else, Bush will make the Texans more money at each home game. With 30,000 empty seats at each home game that's probably $600,000 in lost concession revenue. Yeah, the games are sold out, but it loses them money to have those seats empty. Bush will put people back in the stands.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Given that Casserly pretty much said we aren't going after Lienert, that is enough for me to know we are going to get Bush. First of all, he automatically referred to USC in terms of drafting. Second, with Wells being a FA and the shown improvement of Morency you might see Wells as expendable (although I've grown to like this guy and would hate to see him go). Remember last year, the Texans let Wells test the market and he still was able to come back. This year might not be the case.
Third, coaching change brings change altogether. Davis could still keep his job while the new coach waits for the opportunity to instill his man in the lineup.
I think as soon as Bush declares, you will hear Casserly say we are drafting him. We are the #1 pick. No need to blow smoke screens.
Third, coaching change brings change altogether. Davis could still keep his job while the new coach waits for the opportunity to instill his man in the lineup.
I think as soon as Bush declares, you will hear Casserly say we are drafting him. We are the #1 pick. No need to blow smoke screens.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Hottoddie said:
No I don't have a link but I'm astounded that you have no memory of the comments floating around just a couple of months ago when the starting LT job was handed back to Pitts. that's what I'm referring to and I will try and find some evidence of it since you obviously feel that I'm making that one up. I am not making it up.
It provided a few days of debate and then was apparently forgotten by, well at least you. Anyone else remember what I'm talking about? Someone in the Texans organization was quoted as saying something along the lines of "The answer looks like it was here all along in Chester Pitts" and "If this is the case then we may not need to address this area with our first pick"
That's a complete paraphrasing of the statement but I clearly remember the uproar over the Texans thinking that Chester Pitts belonged at LT on a permanent basis.
Hervoyel said:
This sentence sums it all up for me .... People tend to forget that building a football team is a work in progress .... it Never Stops (until the team or league folds , which doesnt look likely any time soon) .
Now the team we are talking about has MANY holes but that doesnt mean they cant take Bush and build a solid unit around him over the coming years . Is one player going to affect the win loss total of this team DRAMATICLY in ONE season ? Probably not . Is taking the best available talent at each selection going to pay off ..... Eventually yes.
If Bush is far and away the best player in the draft BY ALL MEANS TAKE HIM .... But building this team and filling the holes doesnt stop with one player or one season ....Its an on-going process over many seasons that defines success in this league or any other .... :brickwall
UGA
Noob
You cannot pass on a talent like Bush. Our team lacks firepower, and with Bush and a new coach we have more weapons at our disposal.
We cannot go from having a horrid line to excellent in one draft guys. But, if we take OL with our first picks of the 2nd and 3rd, and combine that with a key free agent signing like Bently or Hutchinson.. we will be on our way. And one thing that gets overlooked is that playcalling and offensive schemes play a big part in line production. With someone like Kubiak calling the plays and installing his offense i think that right there would make a 10-15% improvement on our line as we wouldnt be so damn predictable. Keeping defenses honest is the key.
Bush and Davis will be a hell of a one two punch and will compliment each other well. The problem with Davis is he cant sustain 20-25 carries a game for a full season. With Bush, we can limit Davis to 15 carries a game, and get Bush 10-12. Bush also can run the slot for 7-10 plays. This allows both players to make an impact while also not overloading either and placing the team on their shoulders.
What the Texans need to do....
1. Draft Bush
2. Draft OL with picks 2,3
3. Sign either Bentley or Hutchinson for the OL
4. Hire Kubiak
5. Dump Wade, and bite the bullet next year on his contract
A couple draft picks and a key signing will improve our line by 20-25%, and a new offensive direction could improve them by 10-15%. You cannot ask for much more in a one year period, especially since we have ALOT of dead weight contracts in that area. This also benifits our new franchise player (Bush) and gives us a chance to be explosive from game 1.
We cannot go from having a horrid line to excellent in one draft guys. But, if we take OL with our first picks of the 2nd and 3rd, and combine that with a key free agent signing like Bently or Hutchinson.. we will be on our way. And one thing that gets overlooked is that playcalling and offensive schemes play a big part in line production. With someone like Kubiak calling the plays and installing his offense i think that right there would make a 10-15% improvement on our line as we wouldnt be so damn predictable. Keeping defenses honest is the key.
Bush and Davis will be a hell of a one two punch and will compliment each other well. The problem with Davis is he cant sustain 20-25 carries a game for a full season. With Bush, we can limit Davis to 15 carries a game, and get Bush 10-12. Bush also can run the slot for 7-10 plays. This allows both players to make an impact while also not overloading either and placing the team on their shoulders.
What the Texans need to do....
1. Draft Bush
2. Draft OL with picks 2,3
3. Sign either Bentley or Hutchinson for the OL
4. Hire Kubiak
5. Dump Wade, and bite the bullet next year on his contract
A couple draft picks and a key signing will improve our line by 20-25%, and a new offensive direction could improve them by 10-15%. You cannot ask for much more in a one year period, especially since we have ALOT of dead weight contracts in that area. This also benifits our new franchise player (Bush) and gives us a chance to be explosive from game 1.
If the Texan's build around anyone it should be your starting quarterback. Running backs are a dime a dozen. Denver took Terrell Davis as #276 in his draft. Davis had over 7000 yards in his short career. Mike Anderson was 27 years old when Denver picked him up. Who the Texans really need to dump is Dan Reeves, he was a loser for 11 years in Denver and lost 3 Super Bowls for us.
supertankman
Noob
Walt said:
So you don't agree with any of the scouts that say he is a once in a decade type player? You take chances in the league and If you have a chance to take a SUPERSTAR, you take him period.
Guys i think it is too early to talk about whether or not we are going to keep Reggie. I guarantee you we will draft him but that is just to make sure we have him to trade. It depends if we are happy with our current tackles. I like Pitts but im not sure about the RT. What we need on the o-line are guards. If you noticed most of the pressure towards the end of the year came up the middle. I don't think you pick up a guard in the first round so that would mean we keep Bush. So i think it all depends on if we are happy with our current tackles. I think we also need to try and find another ilb. But we can't really make a decision on that until we find out what defense we will run next season. On another note where do you guys think Santonio Holmes of Ohio St. will go in the draft. I think he would be a good pick-up in the 2nd or 3rd round to compliment Andre.
chuckm
Veteran
Goldeagle said:
IMO the salient point is that Tennesse is in our division, not that they're the former Houston football team ..... the 3rd spot is the logical place to trade back to IMO ... get some extra picks and Ferguson is still there but not if we'll see Bush twice a year from now on ....
While Dan did loose 3 in Denver, one in Atlanta and one as a player I think with the Giants. He is considered to be a very well respected couch/ analysis around the league. His record speaks for itself. As a Bronco fan I have realize that when he was let go.Walt said:
How many other teams can you name that can do the same thing Denver is doing? If we get Kubiak, it might happen. If we have Reggie and DD, it will most definalty happen.
Another thing is that say if we do trade for a lineman, what next then? Wait around for another couple of losing seasons for our new lineman to develope. Drafting a lineman doesn't mean that we are going to instantly win more games. They too, take time to mature, what has Robert Gallery done so far? The Raiders are still in the AFC West basement.
You can not pass on a player of Reggies caliber. DD is not looking to be a very durable back. He has yet to play every game of the regular season without getting hurt. DD is made out of glass. Wells is mediocre at best. Morency is the thrid string, nothing to write home to mom about. So yes, we do need Reggie in our backfeild.
UGA
Noob
jerek said:
The point is we dont need to talk ourselves out of drafting the clear cut best talent in the draft. Its not about Bush being the greatest thing since slice bread, its about a 2-14 team doing what a 2-14 team should do with the first pick... draft the best player.
Davis is not a fulltime back, and has injury concerns. Its obvious he is best suited for 10-15 carries a game. While he is a good back, he is not a franchise back, nor a back that i consider durable nor talented enough to belive to be useful beyond a 2-3 year frame at best. His upside is he has produced within a crappy team and is tough for his size, but his downside is he isnt a breakawy threat, is not effective from the red zone and is not durable.
Given this its obvious we should not cite him as a reason to pass on the best player available which happens to be at Davis' position. The upside of course is that Bush and Davis in tandem share the load and have the ability to be the best one two punch in the league. Davis alone will never be better then a top 15ish back who wears down.
As for the o-line, of course we need help. But trading away from the best talent to fill that void doesnt jive well with me. For one we have 4 first day picks in a draft that has some nice depth at o-line. We could get 2-3 nice picks behinf Bush. We have the first picks in every round so we will have nice options at each turn of the draft.
Secondly, if we all agree any pick is risky and not garunteed, wed be better suited taking the best player in the draft with the most upside, then trading down for "value" which actually is just as much of a gamble but with less upside. This is where alot of teams that trade down for "value" fail. Taking multiple second tier players is still taking multiple second tier players. The real blue chippers drop by picks 4/5 generally, and for a team that is 2-14 to trade down and not get a legit franchise player is ridiculous.
One problem with most of this trade or not trade the first pick discussion is that it assumes that we either take Reggie and then draft for need with the rest of our draft or trade the pick for more picks this year and next.
The issue is more complex than that in that we will undoubtedbly face offers to receive one young (3-4 year exp) pro bowl level player of need (OT, OG, DE, LB) + a "2" in this year's draft or a "1" in next years for the right to swap picks with us. Depending on the team (Jets, Oakland, Arizona, Detroit, Tenn) there are some very interesting possiblities that we will be given the chance to say yes or no to. IMO, we continue to let the Chronicle beat the drum for REGGIE, but then we then seriously to listen to the value offers that this kid is going to bring our way.
The issue is more complex than that in that we will undoubtedbly face offers to receive one young (3-4 year exp) pro bowl level player of need (OT, OG, DE, LB) + a "2" in this year's draft or a "1" in next years for the right to swap picks with us. Depending on the team (Jets, Oakland, Arizona, Detroit, Tenn) there are some very interesting possiblities that we will be given the chance to say yes or no to. IMO, we continue to let the Chronicle beat the drum for REGGIE, but then we then seriously to listen to the value offers that this kid is going to bring our way.
should bush declare he is coming to the NFL. I think Houston should pick him up. He will turn out to be one of the greats this game has ever seen with time. Then the next thing that needs to be done is get an o-line that can block. I must admit i like DD but i think his time has come to be a second string kinda guy.
just my .02 cents.
just my .02 cents.
michaelm
vox nihili
zeplin said:
and that moster OL, great QB and hall of fame reciever had a hall of fame running back... we have the possibilty of one of the four in Andre, Bush has potential to be two of the four, and then we just need to build the third component in the coming seasons...
Carr, on the other hand is obviously a subject for about 1,000 other threads...
michaelm said:
Offensive lines make RBs, not vice versa. See the Denver Broncos as an example. They can put anybody behind that line -- and have for many years now -- and they have great seasons. That's why Reggie Bush would be a wasted pick. Everybody gets mesmerized by the college hero who scores all the TDs, but in the pros you don't go anywhere without a good OL. Dom Davis was a fourth-round pick and he is a solid back. And you want to burn a top pick on a RB? There are tons of reasons why the Texans would be stupid to do this. I'm hoping that the Texans will not be stupid.
dat_boy_yec
Rookie
Walt said:
Wait doesn't Portis play for the Redskins now? I thought they got to the playoffs. Looks like it was a good deal for both teams. Doesn't Denver have a history of plugging in decent RBs and making them look good. Portis helped out the Redskins and I'm sure that Bush can help us out in the long run. Denver goes through RB's like I don't know what, but they are usually good to great running backs and even without Portis you know they would do well. Bush could be our first franchise back and help us out until we start putting all the other pieces in place. Then once we had an offense that could afford to plug in players like Denver, I wouldn't complain. I think Bush would help the Texans not only to improve record wise, but also with their Identity as a team. Also, if the Titans ended up w/Bush I might have to go get a new brain because mine would have exploded.