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Game 4...Prove It...Carolina Panthers!

maverick512000 said:
Cam seemed to be a better QB than he actually was because not many QBs were a real run threat at that time. Vick started it, Kaepernick showed it could work and then Newton made it work. Since then not only do you have most major QBs be duel threat in some regard but defenses have learned how to plan for that. Newton was never actually really even a duel threat because he couldn't throw the ball. He use to brag that if people didn't like his trash talking then find a way to stop him. Well defenses did and now a QB that survives just on his legs doesn't work any more. Newton's era is done, its now the era of the Mahomes and Watsons who are true duel threats because their legs can get them out of trouble and their arms can make the plays.
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You make good points but I predict Cam will make at least one pro bowl appearance. I base that on nothing other than a feeling.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
Cam was a much better Qb than the stats say he was. You may be right about his future but I think you are wrong. I predict Cam will be back in the Pro Bowl at least two more times.
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You may be right. But if he makes it to the Pro Bowl it will be as a different QB. He is publicly saying he has to change his style. Be more “efficient”. And it could that he will be 32 to start over if he has that lisfranc...which should be harder (doc?) to recover from as a mobile QB. I have a different respect for Schaub after seeing his leg wrapped up to his knee.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
Cam was a much better Qb than the stats say he was. You may be right about his future but I think you are wrong. I predict Cam will be back in the Pro Bowl at least two more times.
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You may be right. But if he makes it to the Pro Bowl it will be as a different QB. He is publicly saying he has to change his style. Be more “efficient”. And it could that he will be 32 to start over if he has that lisfranc...which should be harder (doc?) to recover from as a mobile QB. I have a different respect for Schaub after seeing his leg wrapped up to his knee.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
He has been to the Pro Bowl before has he not? Stats do not always tell the whole story.
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The probowl is a meaningless designation. Like hookem said, and a few more..

Elvis Grbac made the pro bowl.
Kordell Stewart made the pro bowl.
Kerry Collins made the pro bowl.
Derek Anderson (yes, the Cleveland Browns QB) made the pro bowl.

Read that list out loud and tell me that that's the measuring stick you want to use for success.

Stats do not in fact tell the whole story, but they're a completely reasonable piece of it, far more so than the pro bowl..

and his stats stink, just like those 'pro bowlers'.
 
Mollywhopper said:
The probowl is a meaningless designation. Like hookem said, and a few more..

Elvis Grbac made the pro bowl.
Kordell Stewart made the pro bowl.
Kerry Collins made the pro bowl.
Derek Anderson (yes, the Cleveland Browns QB) made the pro bowl.

Read that list out loud and tell me that that's the measuring stick you want to use for success.

Stats do not in fact tell the whole story, but they're a completely reasonable piece of it, far more so than the pro bowl..

and his stats stink, just like those 'pro bowlers'.
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It's even more meaningless now that so many players don't even want to go to it anymore. How many guys get in because 2 or 3 guys ahead of them opted out. I think that's how Winston got in.
 
maverick512000 said:
Cam seemed to be a better QB than he actually was because not many QBs were a real run threat at that time. Vick started it, Kaepernick showed it could work and then Newton made it work. Since then not only do you have most major QBs be duel threat in some regard but defenses have learned how to plan for that. Newton was never actually really even a duel threat because he couldn't throw the ball. He use to brag that if people didn't like his trash talking then find a way to stop him. Well defenses did and now a QB that survives just on his legs doesn't work any more. Newton's era is done, its now the era of the Mahomes and Watsons who are true duel threats because their legs can get them out of trouble and their arms can make the plays.
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You make good points but I predict Cam will make at least one or two pro bowl appearances before he retires. I base that on nothing other than a feeling.
 
Mollywhopper said:
The probowl is a meaningless designation. Like hookem said, and a few more..

Elvis Grbac made the pro bowl.
Kordell Stewart made the pro bowl.
Kerry Collins made the pro bowl.
Derek Anderson (yes, the Cleveland Browns QB) made the pro bowl.

Read that list out loud and tell me that that's the measuring stick you want to use for success.

Stats do not in fact tell the whole story, but they're a completely reasonable piece of it, far more so than the pro bowl..

and his stats stink, just like those 'pro bowlers'.
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The pro bowl does not always equate to a HOF carreer but it does mean those players did not suck on the years they appeared in them. So with that said I think Cam will have a few more seasons of being above average.
 
Hookem Horns said:
Vince Young was in the Pro Bowl. Jameis Winston has been to a Pro Bowl. Matt Schaub was the MVP of the Pro Bowl ... those are just off the top of my head.
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Sucky or below average seasons do not equate to being in the Pro Bowl. HOFers usually have made many trips to the Pro Bowl. Look up HOF Qb's and how many pro bowl appearances they have made?
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
The pro bowl does not always equate to a HOF carreer but it does mean those players did not suck on the years they appeared in them. So with that said I think Cam will have a few more seasons of being above average.
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No it does not necessarily mean that. It means you're using a very low bar.

You don't care to listen to reason cause you're a fanboy. Cool, I get it, and have at it.
 
Dejaview said:
You may be right. But if he makes it to the Pro Bowl it will be as a different QB. He is publicly saying he has to change his style. Be more “efficient”. And it could that he will be 32 to start over if he has that lisfranc...which should be harder (doc?) to recover from as a mobile QB. I have a different respect for Schaub after seeing his leg wrapped up to his knee.
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Given Cam's injury he may never recover well enough to be better than average but if he recovers I feel he has it in him to end his carreer as a good Qb. I am not intending to say Cam is great or a future HOFer but at his best he is a good Qb who at times is great.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
Given Cam's injury he may never recover well enough to be better than average but if he recovers I feel he has it in him to end his carreer as a good Qb. I am not intending to say Cam is great or a future HOFer but at his best he is a good Qb who at times is great.
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So Case Keenan’s gotta couple of Pro Bowls ahead of him.
 
DanielTx said:
I want to give us a easy w but I know that won’t be the case. The secondary will get roasted this game. Carolina has a underrated receiver group. I expect them to take advantage. Kyle Allen had 4 tds in his first game. Rc should make it a goal to get him benched. We need our defensive veterans to step up and kill the head so the body can die. Every play should be a blitz. Carolina has a lot of speed and can stretch the field.

I expect this to be a relatively close game with the Texans coming out on top. O’Brien play calling was pretty good last game. Hopefully the trend continues and Watson can get the ball out fast.
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Just to make you feel better about the defense. They are better than last year. Holding the Chargers to 20 points at home is damn good. They held the Saints well under their season average at home compared to last year. The Jags only scored 12 points compared to 20 they scored against the Titans who are considered to have a good defense.

Talking offense.

Deshaun just threw for 350 against a Chargers defense that hadn’t given up 300 plus since Patrick Mahomes 16 games prior(regular season games). Deshaun is finding his groove and 2 of 3 games have resembled the MVP form we saw his rookie year.

Have more faith. This team is good and unlucky to not be 3-0.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
I predict Cam will be back in the Pro Bowl at least two more times.
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Because he's the 3rd or 4th alternate? Yeah, I guess that's possible. 1st QB is in the SB so he won't go, maybe another just lost the NFC title game and won't bother, a couple more with nagging injuries that won't play. Yeah, maybe.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Read that list out loud and tell me that that's the measuring stick you want to use for success.
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I agree the ProBowl shouldn't be the mark of success, but I wouldn't go so far as saying it's meaningless. Doesn't mean what we think it means.

But those dudes had dam good seasons when they went to the ProBowl.

Multiple pro Bowls means you've had multiple good seasons. That's gotta mean something.
 
thunderkyss said:
I agree the ProBowl shouldn't be the mark of success, but I wouldn't go so far as saying it's meaningless. Doesn't mean what we think it means.

But those dudes had dam good seasons when they went to the ProBowl.

Multiple pro Bowls means you've had multiple good seasons. That's gotta mean something.
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No they didn't. Their total average passer rating for their 'pro bowl' seasons is 83.2.

And only one of those 'pro bowl' season was pre-2000. Since then that is the opposite of a damn good season.

Their average number of yards is 3,239.

Average completion percentage 58.2

Average touchdowns 19 to 12 touchdowns.

None of these are 'damn good' numbers.

I mean, I guess unless we're trying to justify Cam Newton.

And well, fair enough in that case, cause that's pretty par for his course..
 
Mollywhopper said:
The probowl is a meaningless designation. Like hookem said, and a few more..

Elvis Grbac made the pro bowl.
Kordell Stewart made the pro bowl.
Kerry Collins made the pro bowl.
Derek Anderson (yes, the Cleveland Browns QB) made the pro bowl.

Read that list out loud and tell me that that's the measuring stick you want to use for success.

Stats do not in fact tell the whole story, but they're a completely reasonable piece of it, far more so than the pro bowl..

and his stats stink, just like those 'pro bowlers'.
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Lol he said elvis grbac
Blast from the past
Michigan qb???
I'm sorry I've been drinking and elvis grbac was like damn
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
Cam was a much better Qb than the stats say he was. You may be right about his future but I think you are wrong. I predict Cam will be back in the Pro Bowl at least two more times.
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Don't see it happening.

Cam was a great athlete impersonating a QB …. now he's a broken athlete and cant pull off the impersonation.

If he makes a pro bowl , it'll be because the guys in front of him declined the invitation.
 
Dejaview said:
So Case Keenam’s gotta couple of Pro Bowls ahead of him.
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While you meant to be sarcastic I think it possible he could. If he has many more stinkers like his last performance it will not be this season. The troubles with Cam and Case are not all on them though.

On a side note, if you meant to liken Case to Cam you are way off. Up to this point in their carreers Cam has been the better Qb for the most part. His legs have nothing to do with it. When Steve Smith was available he completed plenty of passes to him.

CDam started last season good and was much better than just an athlete with no throwing skills playing the position.
 
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Dejaview said:
So Case Keenam’s gotta couple of Pro Bowls ahead of him.
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While you meant to be sarcastic I think it possible he could. If he has many more stinkers like his last performance it will not be this season. The troubles with Cam and Case are not all on them though.

On a side note, if you meant to liken Case to Cam you are way off. Up to this point in their carreers Cam has been the better Qb for the most part. Stats don't tell the whole story.
 
TxnsJuggernaut1 said:
Time will tell. Right now he doesn't have much in the way of weapons outside Christian McCaffrey. Give him better weapons and a solid O-line and he will do better than average.
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You act like this guy was ever a "Quarterback" … He wasn't. He was a great athlete impersonating a Quarterback.

He's never thrown for a high completion percentage and his ability to run was what made him useful.

He's got a bum shoulder and a bum foot - He has a history of being inaccurate now you expect him to start throwing strikes …. and he's going to be able to run around on a flat tire ?!


Not buying it at all.
 
Speedy said:
Because he's the 3rd or 4th alternate? Yeah, I guess that's possible. 1st QB is in the SB so he won't go, maybe another just lost the NFC title game and won't bother, a couple more with nagging injuries that won't play. Yeah, maybe.
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I will leave this subject alone beyond my final statement. We shall see how Cam does in the next three or four seasons. If he makes any more Pro Bowls it will be no fluke he will have deserved it/them!
 
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corry said:
Just to make you feel better about the defense. They are better than last year. Holding the Chargers to 20 points at home is damn good. They held the Saints well under their season average at home compared to last year. The Jags only scored 12 points compared to 20 they scored against the Titans who are considered to have a good defense.

Talking offense.

Deshaun just threw for 350 against a Chargers defense that hadn’t given up 300 plus since Patrick Mahomes 16 games prior(regular season games). Deshaun is finding his groove and 2 of 3 games have resembled the MVP form we saw his rookie year.

Have more faith. This team is good and unlucky to not be 3-0.
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I never predicted us to loose lol I said it will be challenging. The panthers are coming off a 8 sack game and the Texans snapped a 10+ streak of allowing 3 sacks a game. We have to at least dominate the line on one side of the ball. tbh long as #4 is playing, I’ll never bet against him. Never have never will. Deshaun is the best player in this game. Texans will win 24-16
 
Corrosion said:
You act like this guy was ever a "Quarterback" … He wasn't. He was a great athlete impersonating a Quarterback.

He's never thrown for a high completion percentage and his ability to run was what made him useful.

He's got a bum shoulder and a bum foot - He has a history of being inaccurate now you expect him to start throwing strikes …. and he's going to be able to run around on a flat tire ?!


Not buying it at all.
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He must be a bad man then because for one:

1. He made it to the highest level -NFL

2. Started day one as a rookie

3. Put this team on his back and took them to the Superbowl

4. Winning the MVP

But he's impersonating a QB. Bwhahaha too funny


Wow unheard of.
 
Hookem Horns said:
The Texans are not going to board a time machine and play the best of Cam from a few years ago. Those days are long over. Without his legs he's not even an average QB. Doc mentioned his injury in the Injury thread and it doesn't sound good. As a Bucs fan I would like to see the Panthers go into QB oblivion for a few years, however, Kyle Allen apparently looked pretty good last week. Actually, who am I kidding, the Bucs can't beat anyone's rookie or backup QB.
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Allen had the luxury of McCaffery busting out the longest run of his career for one, which allowed Allen to rely on a run game focused D, and to his credit Allen was good at finding the open man when he dropped back. It was a convincing win against a team they should have beat. What more can you ask of him?

Carolina does have some options at WR. Not all pro's but they are tough to cover if Allen has time. Romeo had better keep McCaffery in focus and dial up some pressure from the front 7. This game, I wish we had Clowney.
 
I dont know...... we have a Jekyl and Hyde type team........... BOB hasnt shown that he can have a team prepared for a full 60 min game....... and I saw what a worse Rookie QB in Jacksonville did to us a couple weeks ago........ and this Kid in Carolina is better then the kid is jacksonville....... and MCcafery scares me........ Alvin Kamara torched us out the backfield in NO and we looked helpless to stop him.......MCcafery does the same type stuff....... Hopefully Our Safeties and Middle Linebackers are putting in overtime watching film or this could be a very long day
 
Texecutioner said:
QB abuse? Lol!

Not even. Cam never accomplished himself to be a consistent passer in the pocket. He ran foolishly way to much throughout his career and brought all kinds of hits on himself. They add up. Its a reason why Russel Wilson doesn't have these same types of problems. He scrambles smarter and with better instincts than any of them.
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Wilson has the "luxury" of being a smaller QB who couldn't absorb the type of punishment that Newton and bigger bodied QBs can take. I very much want Watson to follow Wilson's style of play.
 
DocBar said:
Wilson has the "luxury" of being a smaller QB who couldn't absorb the type of punishment that Newton and bigger bodied QBs can take. I very much want Watson to follow Wilson's style of play.
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Don't disagree with your take at all - would be smart of Watson to emulate Wilson's ability to avoid big hits. The only additional point was Wilson is short, but he is a stocky little dude.
 
The Texans need to play the Panthers in a nickle defense most of the time, picking and choosing their fronts and coverage's. I would blitz early and often, especially from the slot CB or S. I'd keep DBs on McCaffery and probably Olsen as well. I don't think Cole or Cunningham can keep up with either.
 
DocBar said:
The Texans need to play the Panthers in a nickle defense most of the time, picking and choosing their fronts and coverage's. I would blitz early and often, especially from the slot CB or S. I'd keep DBs on McCaffery and probably Olsen as well. I don't think Cole or Cunningham can keep up with either.
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If the Texans blitz with regularity, Allen will pick them apart with short passes or our OL will run right past McCaffery. If a couple of their WRs are given any daylight, they can be gone. And at 34, Olsen is going to be a tough match for any of our LBs or DBs.........he's been the Panthers' consistent "security blanket."
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If the Texans blitz with regularity, Allen will pick them apart with short passes or our OL will run right past McCaffery. If a couple of their WRs are given any daylight, they can be gone. And at 34, Olsen is going to be a tough match for any of our LBs or DBs.........he's been the Panthers' consistent "security blanket."
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Because Allen has a history of recognizing blitzes and finding appropriate hot reads at the nfl level?
 
And the Astros have the best record in the AL wrapped up with home field advantage throughout the playoffs. They just need 1 more win with 2 games left to wrap up the best record in baseball and home field advantage in the World Series. Verlander Saturday. Cole Sunday. There's a better then pretty good chance the Astros get there.
Go Astros!
Take It Back!

The Texans on the other hand, have a long way to go starting with the next up Panthers. 36 more hours to game time!
You got this Texans!
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Last week Allen did a pretty good job of reading the blitz and stepping outside the pocket to complete the pass or keep McCaffrey back to block. There's a reason why Vegas is calling this a close game.
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I can see this game being like the game against the Jags. Very close, very low scoring. Our offense struggles, defense shows up to play.

Texans 13
Panthers 10
 
Mangler said:
I can see this game being like the game against the Jags. Very close, very low scoring. Our offense struggles, defense shows up to play.

Texans 13
Panthers 10
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I'm seeing it as a higher scoring game with each team hitting in the 20s.........and that's if the smart not too overconfident Watson shows up.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Last week Allen did a pretty good job of reading the blitz and stepping outside the pocket to complete the pass or keep McCaffrey back to block. There's a reason why Vegas is calling this a close game.
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If you're ready to declare him unblitzable after two games then fair enough. I'll give it some more time.

I like the kid a little bit, but I don't think any qb is a given going into their third nfl game.
 
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