Front office shake-ups: Texans

[steelbtexan]

Cal did serve time on the search committee that hired Kubiak and Rick Smith. Since his dad's bout with cancer and his being named COO, he has been taking a more active role in Texans operations.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear Rick Smith promoted to VP of Football Operations and Gaine or another named GM

Yes and this is what is being reported by LaCon whatever his name is.

 

[DX-TEX]

Jeff McLaneVerified account
‏@Jeff_McLane Brian Gaine is interesting. He and coach Bill O'Brien have apparently gotten close. Probably doesn't want to lose him. Has ties to Parcells.

This Mcclane guy is an Eagles beat writer. How he knows about the front office of the Texans is beyond me but it adds some credence to the rumor of moving Rick Smith elsewhere in the organization and promoting Gaine to GM

 

[Troy Chapman]

This Mcclane guy is an Eagles beat writer. How he knows about the front office of the Texans is beyond me but it adds some credence to the rumor of moving Rick Smith elsewhere in the organization and promoting Gaine to GM

Gaine's name was mentioned for some GM interviews the last few years. Now the Eagles have requested to interview him for their GM position; which I don't think anyone wants right now. The power struggle up there is bad. Kelly has full control over the roster now.

Hopefully we see something here in the next 2-3 weeks on a Gaine promotion.

 

[disaacks3]

Relevant to this discussion

Quote:
Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer · 17m17 minutes ago
... Looking back, I believe 8 coaches have final say over the 53: Belichick, Carroll, Kelly, O'Brien, Payton, Philbin, Smith, Tomlin.

Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer · 14m14 minutes ago
Yes ... That's 9. RT @auchamps4life @AlbertBreer Jeff Fisher as well.

Not to play Devil's Advocate, but that's just say over the active roster. That has nothing to do with Draft Day and other acquisitions.

 

[Texian]

Not to play Devil's Advocate, but that's just say over the active roster. That has nothing to do with Draft Day and other acquisitions.

Imagine if you will that you're a head coach in the NFL with final say on the 53 man roster. To say that you have no say or control over the draft or free agency is counter-intuitive to the overall process, doesn't make a lot of sense and a recipe for failure. I think this is more of case of you not believing what your eyes and ears are telling you because it doesn't agree with your what you want to believe.

 

[infantrycak]

Imagine if you will that you're a head coach in the NFL with final say on the 53 man roster. To say that have no say or control over the draft or free agency is counter-intuitive to the overall process, doesn't make a lot of sense and a recipe for failure. I think this is more of case of you not believing what your eyes and ears are telling you because it doesn't agree with your what you want to believe.

According to you and some others, having a HC involved in the groceries at all instead of the GM is counter-intuitive and a recipe for disaster. So maybe you don't have a real good grasp on the thoughts of teams that go that route.

I'm betting the answer is, it varies.

It really is two very different subjects between "you don't have to have anyone on your team you don't want" and "you get to pick everyone who walks in that door."

 

[steelbtexan]

According to you and some others, having a HC involved in the groceries at all instead of the GM is counter-intuitive and a recipe for disaster. So maybe you don't have a real good grasp on the thoughts of teams that go that route.

I'm betting the answer is, it varies.

It really is two very different subjects between "you don't have to have anyone on your team you don't want" and "you get to pick everyone who walks in that door."

Out of the HC's listed above which ones do you think have the everybody that walks thru the door power? Belichick/Kelly.... ?

 

[infantrycak]

Out of the HC's listed above which ones do you think have the everybody that walks thru the door power? Belichick/Kelly.... ?

Belichick. Sounds like Kelly may have just acquired it. Carroll?

 

[steelbtexan]

Belichick. Sounds like Kelly may have just acquired it. Carroll?

Probably, the question is did Carroll get this power when he agreed to become HC? Did BOB get this power or after this season is BOB making a power play like Kelly did? I think we will know the answer if Gaine gets promoted. Which is what I hope happens.

 

[nero THE zero]

Belichick. Sounds like Kelly may have just acquired it. Carroll?

If Carroll has that level of authority it has to take some of the shine off the oft-lauded Schneider.

I would sell my soul to be a fly on the wall in the Texans' meeting rooms. What I am really interested in is how, if at all, the decision making process is different between the Kubiak and O'Brien regimes.

 

[infantrycak]

All this authority stuff isn't amenable to hard rules and outside impressions. It's the place of tell all books 20 years down the road. It isn't sufficient to say Kubiak had final 53 authority as if that answers all questions. Fine, he wanted Schaub on the roster, that doesn't mean he decided at what price, when a contract should be done/redone, etc. I wouldn't ordinarily take final 53 authority to mean the HC can say "pay any price" over the objection of the GM. So in effect the GM can cross people off the team too.

This isn't some big 10's of thousands of companies issue so you can talk about the norm very accurately. This is the pinnacle of 32 businesses, several family run, in a business unlike any other. They're not all cookie A or cookie B.

 

[Seegara]

Cal did serve time on the search committee that hired Kubiak and Rick Smith. Since his dad's bout with cancer and his being named COO, he has been taking a more active role in Texans operations.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear Rick Smith promoted to VP of Football Operations and Gaine or another named GM

<chuckle> He did serve on the search committee... Serve time implies a prison term. You didn't mean it that way, did you?

 

[Playoffs]

This Mcclane guy is an Eagles beat writer. How he knows about the front office of the Texans is beyond me but it adds some credence to the rumor of moving Rick Smith elsewhere in the organization and promoting Gaine to GM

Gaine has already interviewed with the Bears and is scheduled to do same with Eagles. Unless it's just some sort of exercise for experience or compensation gauge, it appears the Texans are willing to let Gaine leave.

I'm not sure how "close" OB is with Gaine. He has said he didn't know him before meeting him here. There may be other guys O'Brien knows better and would rather have here. I can't say. I'd be surprised if the Head Coach wasn't at least impressed with the job he did as PPD this year.

 

[sandman]

This isn't some big 10's of thousands of companies issue so you can talk about the norm very accurately. This is the pinnacle of 32 businesses, several family run, in a business unlike any other. They're not all cookie A or cookie B.

This. I work in O&G, and I promise you we are not revenue sharing with the other Big Oil companies. And the majority of our employees are not millionaires. We have a bad year and drill dry holes, people lose jobs and the business shrinks. Texans have a bad year and go 2-14, they don't reduce the 53-man roster down to 45 and reduce the schedule to 14 games. It's business, but a completely different business than anything on the Street.

 

[Texian]

Belichick doesn't have a GM per say but he does have Ernie Adams.

 

[Playoffs]

Albert Breer &#8207;@AlbertBreer

Houston has granted the Eagles permission to interview dir of pro personnel Brian Gaine for their GM spot. Interview is being scheduled.

My bad, being scheduled.

 

[powda]

Albert Breer &#8207;@AlbertBreer


My bad, being scheduled.

Yes. I posted here to make you jump with anticipation. And still nothing.

Call me impatient. Let's do something.

 

[Playoffs]

The Texans also could lose pro personnel director Brian Gaine, who interviewed for general manager jobs with Chicago and Philadelphia. The Eagles’ job is still vacant.
...
Smith is expected to make every effort to keep Gaine, who is well-respected in the organization and around the league.

--chron.com/McClain

 

[Troy Chapman]

--chron.com/McClain

Simple fix. Pay raise and change of title to General Manager.

 

[JB]

Cal did serve time on the search committee that hired Kubiak and Rick Smith. Since his dad's bout with cancer and his being named COO, he has been taking a more active role in Texans operations.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear Rick Smith promoted to VP of Football Operations and Gaine or another named GM

Interesting

EXECUTIVE MANAGEMENT
Robert C. McNair Founder, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
D. Cal McNair Vice Chairman and Chief Operating Officer
Bill O'Brien Head Coach
Rick Smith Executive Vice President of Football Operations and General Manager

 

[Playoffs]

Neal Stratton @InsideTheLeague

@HoustonTexans Southeast area scout Mike Martin has been elevated to National Scout. No word on his replacement @ SE yet. Joined team in '07

Good move, need to retain this guy.


Profile of a Super Scout

Teams do a lot of restructuring of their scouting departments every year after the NFL draft. New general managers often bring in new directors of college scouting, while general managers on the hot seat change directors of college scouting to show they are distancing themselves from past mistakes in the draft. Some director spots are also filled after the former director departs for a general manager position. Teams that are looking for an elite scout to head up their college scouting should be targeting Houston Texans scout Mike Martin.

There just aren't scouts around the NFL who have produced for their teams what Martin has. When the Texans made Rick Smith their general manager after the 2006 NFL Draft, he quickly hired Martin away from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers where Martin had been a productive scout for many years. The decision paid off huge for Houston as Martin has delivered elite talent to lead the Texans into the postseason. WalterFootball.com spoke with Grambling State head coach Doug Williams who was one of the top scouts in the Bucs organization when Martin worked in Tampa Bay about his former colleague.

"There is no doubt in my mind [Martin] has a great eye for talent," said Williams. "Mike does a good job of looking at guys and describing them and writing them up exactly the way they are. Some guys are athletes that just play. Mike was an athlete that could look at it from a talent standpoint of other players."

The Texans did the scouting equivalent to winning the Super Bowl in 2009 when they signed an undrafted running back named Arian Foster. Martin was a big fan of Foster and gave him a high grade. After Foster went undrafted, Martin successfully lobbied Smith and head coach Gary Kubiak to get the green light to pursue the University of Tennessee running back.

Foster was pursued heavily by the New Orleans Saints and Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but Martin and the Texans convinced Foster to bring his talents to Houston. Houston cut Foster after his first training camp and stashed him on the practice squad until mid-November. He then ran for over 100 yards against the Patriots in his first pro start. Foster emerged as one of the best backs in the NFL over 2010-12 and now carries the Texans' offense.

Redskins defensive backs coach Raheem Morris was a young assistant in Tampa Bay when Martin first arrived as a scouting assistant. Morris told WalterFootball.com how Martin became a valuable voice.

"Well, first off, when he came in there, he was a young guy figuring it out," said Morris. "The greatest thing he did when I was coaching there was he would meet with me and Mike Tomlin and we would figure out ways to get better. [Martin] would watch tape with us and see what we were looking for in players. He did a great job with all that stuff. We gave him a nickname and called him a young Kanye West because he was so hungry. From that point on he scratched his way up and became an area scout. I was fortunate enough to work with him. With a scout you're not as worried about if he is right or wrong, but you're more worried about whether the guy has an opinion and one that you can value. You take that away and then can make your own decision. [Martin] was one of the guys that helped in that process and he's reached the point where he's ready to go [move up]."

Many scouts pursue moves like the one Martin assisted the Texans in making for Foster for their entire careers only to come up empty. Former Buccaneers and Titans defensive tackle Jovan Haye said that with the politics inside a team, it takes a special scout to push for undrafted players as potential difference-makers and many scouts aren't willing to risk their reputations.

"I think what makes [Martin] special is he is willing to go out on a line. Anytime you can push for a guy, you're putting your credibility on the line and you have to be confident. He doesn't lack confidence, and of course, he does his homework," said Haye. "It is easy to see a first-round draft pick, but when you go around and chose late-round draft picks, undrafted players, guys that were cut and people say their career is probably done; it takes special person with an eye for talent. He clearly has that. He's confident and does his homework. You don't put your credibility on the line if you don't do your homework.

"And he's always been a friend back from when we played together (at Vanderbilt). I think if things didn't work out I'd still feel like I had someone in my corner. I've said it for years don't be surprised if one day if he's a VP or GM. I've seen guys over my years of playing come up, especially coaches going from holding up the cards and doing all the dirty work, to becoming a head coach - Gus Bradly for example. I was in Tampa with Gus and I knew he'd end up a head coach before long. I look at Mike Martin the same way. He's worked hard and people appreciate him. People recognize him and they need to give credit where credit is due. If they do, before long he'll be a GM."

Another pillar for the Texans' roster is left tackle Duane Brown. Martin scouted him out of Virginia Tech in 2008. While others saw flaws, Martin saw a future franchise left tackle. Houston was fortunate to land Brown with the 26th pick in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft. Landing a pro bowl left tackle late in the first round is not an easy feat. Current Purdue offensive coordinator John Shoop explained how Martin was able to see a franchise left tackle.

"I think sometimes discovering talent isn't necessarily the hardest thing to do, but knowing the kind of coaches and people that form your organization to mesh with the talent is really the test," said Shoop. "Mike just really digs in and asks a lot of personal questions. He asks a lot of questions on how these players are motivated. A lot of questions on how much they love football, how they're coached and what kind of coaching they respond to.

"I think anybody can turn on the film and see that son of a gun can throw the ball, or that guy is fast, but a lot of really talented players have gone places where they're not a good fit and it didn't work out. As much as anything, scouts need to be able to say that is a super player, but he may not be a fit for us, or say other people don't like this guy as much, but he really fits what we're trying to do. I think as much as anything scouts need to know the coaches that are on their staff now, and know what they're working towards. Mike can just see which guys are a good fit."

Martin was also instrumental in helping to land another steal for Houston. Before moving on to Houston, he had gotten to know Shoop when he was the Buccaneers quarterbacks coach in 2004. Shoop also had stints with the Bears, Raiders and Panthers. Shoop was the offensive coordinator at North Carolina in 2010 when the Tar Heels were led by quarterback T.J. Yates. Shoop was a big fan of Houston quarterback Matt Schaub coming out of the University of Virginia and ran a lot of the Texans' system in North Carolina.

Martin and the Texans saw a unique opportunity to land a quarterback prospect who already had a working knowledge of the team's offense. Houston was happy with Matt Schaub as its starting quarterback, but was looking for depth behind him. The Texans's selected Yates in the fifth round of the 2011 NFL Draft.

"Well, I think the whole franchise in Houston - the whole organization - looks for players that are the right fit," said Shoop. "Mike does that, and he did it with T.J. T.J. is smart and plays the game so cerebrally and Matt Schaub does as well.

"Mike has always been like that. We worked together in Tampa. We got to know each other. Mike does a ton of hard work trying to find out if a person would be a good fit and have success in the organization. I think when all the coaches got to know T.J., they saw he knew a lot of the language from the offense he ran in college. The pros had similarities. Mike's legwork proved that he would be a good fit. He's as hard a working scout as there is. A lot of scouts came through when I was at North Carolina. He's as thorough and as hard working as any I've been around."

Yates was thrust into the lineup in his rookie season when both Schaub and backup Matt Leinart were lost for the season. Yates, excelled completing 61 percent of his passes for 949 yards, three touchdowns and three interceptions. He led the Texans to their first ever postseason victory. Yates is now considered by many to be one of the more capable backups in the NFL.

Other players who Martin scouted for the Texans to draft include Auburn running back Ben Tate. He ran for 116 yards on 24 carries in his NFL debut. Tate had just under 1,000 yards in 2011.

Alabama cornerback Kareem Jackson was another player Houston selected from Martin's territory. Jackson had some early struggles but was vastly improved in 2012. Broncos ace return specialist Trindon Holliday was another player who Martin helped push for in Houston.

"When you get a guy that has a strong opinion - whether it is right, wrong or indifferent - it is valuable to a head coach or a general manager," said Morris. "You tend to lean on those guys because you know they know exactly what you're looking for. When you feel that way about people, you start to trust them a little bit more. That happened with Mike going to Houston and on his whole road up. I've always tried to talk about him because he is one of those guys I have a lot of respect for seeing him as a young guy and work his way up." Martin scouted Cadillac Williams out of Auburn while still at Tampa Bay. Prior to Williams, Martin was part of the scouting staff that suggested trading for Thomas Jones. Part of what helps Martin is building relationships with the players. Many scouts don't spend the time getting to know players.

"There is no doubt about that. It comes easy to Mike because he's such a good guy, but he really does work at cultivating relationships," Shoop said. "Even if you don't have a player on your team, I talk to Mike regularly about players we play against. Others don't do that. He calls asks how did you prepare to play this guy; did you recruit him; things like that. It is kind of like high school recruiting. I tell our coaches don't just go in a high school when they have a player, go visit when they don't as well and ask them about some of their opponents. Mike really does some of the same things that college coaches do in recruiting and fosters that relationship building."

From a player's perspective, Haye said that those relationships can make a big difference when players are trying to decide to which team they want to play for.

"You have to build relationships," said Haye. "My situation is different; maybe Arian's is different. But there are guys that have had a choice on where they wanted to go and he was able to convince them to go to them. It comes down to relationships. If you have your mind set I want to go to team A, but then Mike Martin convinced me I could see myself going to team B because of a relationship I developed with him.

"Everything Mike said he was doing for me was confirmed by Monte Kiffin. I always believed him, but to hear from a coach's mouth that he went to war for you everyday. I've always given Mike the credit. I didn't do it. Isn't my doing or my play, it took him convincing the coaches to take a chance on this guy."

Martin played a key role in the signing Haye off Cleveland's practice squad. Haye became an effective three-technique defensive tackle during Monte Kiffin's final two seasons in Tampa Bay.

"I got released by Carolina and went to Cleveland. I was on their 53 for a week and then they put me on their practice squad. I was there for seven weeks," said Haye. "Mike and I were always good friends, so I would always call him. He would always tell me to hang on and I won't be there long. It was hard being there by myself. I'd talk with my grandma, mom and dad almost every day. Mike was comforting. Mike worked with the Bucs at the time. He told me they were definitely interested. When I get cut, Cleveland put in a claim before Tampa was able to get me.

"Mike always took the time to talk to me through the ordeal and let me know he was working hard to get claim me off the practice squad. He wouldn't claim credit for it, but if it wasn't for him I don't know if I would've been mentally strong enough to go through that and I don't think I would've gotten down to Tampa."
...

"I think Mike Martin should get an opportunity to be one of the young up-and-coming executives in the NFL," said Doug Williams. "I think all he needs is an opportunity. You won't find a scout that will work harder. He really knows talent. When he left Tampa for Houston, they gave him a little more responsibility, and I think Houston got the best of that situation."

Losing Martin was a big blow to the Bucs' ability to find talent; Morris' tenure as head coach in Tampa Bay was plagued by a roster that lacked thr talent to compete on Sundays. After working with a lot of scouts as a pro position coach, college coordinator and pro head coach, Morris sees a scouting talent to lead an NFL franchise.

"It really is about the knowledge of the guy," said Morris. "[Martin] has the battle that we all had to fight about being a young guy, but once you get him in front of a person and the right audience, he has the ability to talk and express his views on scouting and how to build a team. He's definitely ready to be a director of college scouting or director of pro, because he knows so many people from his college scouting, and GM isn't too far around the corner after that. I just think he's special. He's got a great charisma about him, he works hard and does things the right way."
...

"From time in the league and the people I've known and some of the scouts that have become directors, there is no doubt in my mind that Mike Martin equals or tops them," said Williams. "Like I say, it is all about an opportunity. If he doesn't get that opportunity, we'll never know. The key is somebody has to step up and give Mike that chance to prove that he is better than others that are in that position."

http://walterfootball.com/mikemartin.php#ZgsACewVrkPxBCB3.99

 

[steelbtexan]

Is this the guy who gave the Texans Montgomery/Brennan Williams/ Swearinger?

If so, PASS

 

[sandman]

Is this the guy who gave the Texans Montgomery/Brennan Williams/ Swearinger?

If so, PASS

This is the guy who gave the Texans Arian Foster, Duane Brown and Kareem Jackson.

Every scout has a Montgomery/Williams/Swearinger on their resume. Not every scout has a Foster/Brown/Jackson.

 

[steelbtexan]

This is the guy who gave the Texans Arian Foster, Duane Brown and Kareem Jackson.

Every scout has a Montgomery/Williams/Swearinger on their resume. Not every scout has a Foster/Brown/Jackson.

If this guy is so great tell me why Foster wasn't drafted?

Brown was personally worked out and the handpicked guy of the great HOF'er Alex Gibbs. The Jackson pick certainly isn't a pick I would want to hang my hat on as a career achievement. He was terrible and has developed into a solid CB2. Nothing more

 

[ObsiWan]

Is this the guy who gave the Texans Montgomery/Brennan Williams/ Swearinger?

If so, PASS

So you're saying you have no idea if he did or not?

Edit: Dammit!
I fed the troll.
$1.00 ---> Troll Jar

 

[Playoffs]

Is this the guy who gave the Texans Montgomery/Brennan Williams/ Swearinger?

Regional scouts don't draft players. Mike Maccagnan was Director of College Scouting through 2014, if you're looking for a scapegoat.

 

[ChampionTexan]

If this guy is so great tell me why Foster wasn't drafted?

No team drafted him. Does that mean that NO NFL team has great scouts?

 

[steelbtexan]

So you're saying you have no idea if he did or not?

Edit: Dammit!
I fed the troll.
$1.00 ---> Troll Jar

I'm asking if he was the scout that made the recommendation for these picks.? If so they shouldn't be promoting him.

In fact after the 2013/2014 drafts no scout should be getting promoted. Some should be getting fired though. IMHO

 

[steelbtexan]

Regional scouts don't draft players. Mike Maccagnan was Director of College Scouting through 2014, if you're looking for a scapegoat.

Not looking for a scapegoat, I was wondering who made the recomendation for those picks?

Macagnan got promoted on advise given by Casserly. LOL

 

[sandman]

If this guy is so great tell me why Foster wasn't drafted?

Brown was personally worked out and the handpicked guy of the great HOF'er Alex Gibbs. The Jackson pick certainly isn't a pick I would want to hang my hat on as a career achievement. He was terrible and has developed into a solid CB2. Nothing more

31 other teams had 7 rounds to draft Foster and they didn't. Let's not make it sound like it was his unique inability see something that everyone else could. What he did do according to the article was convince Foster that Houston was his best opportunity among the teams courting him as a UDFA.

As far as Brown goes, the article has this to say:

"Another pillar for the Texans' roster is left tackle Duane Brown. Martin scouted him out of Virginia Tech in 2008. While others saw flaws, Martin saw a future franchise left tackle. Houston was fortunate to land Brown with the 26th pick in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft. Landing a pro bowl left tackle late in the first round is not an easy feat."

I have no doubt that Gibbs was high on Brown and heavily influenced the pick, but if you think that your O-line coach had the spare time during the season to go scout college games and ended up discovering Brown all by himself...

 

[ObsiWan]

31 other teams had 7 rounds to draft Foster and they didn't. Let's not make it sound like it was his unique inability see something that everyone else could. What he did do according to the article was convince Foster that Houston was his best opportunity among the teams courting him as a UDFA.

As far as Brown goes, the article has this to say:

"Another pillar for the Texans' roster is left tackle Duane Brown. Martin scouted him out of Virginia Tech in 2008. While others saw flaws, Martin saw a future franchise left tackle. Houston was fortunate to land Brown with the 26th pick in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft. Landing a pro bowl left tackle late in the first round is not an easy feat."

I have no doubt that Gibbs was high on Brown and heavily influenced the pick, but if you think that your O-line coach had the spare time during the season to go scout college games and ended up discovering Brown all by himself...

'nuff said.

 

[thunderkyss]

31 other teams had 7 rounds to draft Foster and they didn't. Let's not make it sound like it was his unique inability see something that everyone else could. What he did do according to the article was convince Foster that Houston was his best opportunity among the teams courting him as a UDFA.

He also talked Rick into beefing up the UDFA contract they offered Foster.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Um, we didn't scout Foster.. His girlfriend scouted us. They started pulling up teams and were looking for team's with crappy RB depth charts.. They picked us, because since Foster was undrafted they felt Houston was their best chance to stick with a team and make a NFL roster. I give Houston zero credit on that one.. They just lucked into it.

 

[sandman]

Um, we didn't scout Foster.. His girlfriend scouted us. They started pulling up teams and were looking for team's with crappy RB depth charts.. They picked us, because since Foster was undrafted they felt Houston was their best chance to stick with a team and make a NFL roster. I give Houston zero credit on that one.. They just lucked into it.

So the Texans new National Scout is a liar?

Well, we did want this team to be like the Patriots...

 

[Carr Bombed]

So the Texans new National Scout is a liar?

Well, we did want this team to be like the Patriots...

I'm just going by what the Foster's said

 

[steelbtexan]

31 other teams had 7 rounds to draft Foster and they didn't. Let's not make it sound like it was his unique inability see something that everyone else could. What he did do according to the article was convince Foster that Houston was his best opportunity among the teams courting him as a UDFA.

As far as Brown goes, the article has this to say:

"Another pillar for the Texans' roster is left tackle Duane Brown. Martin scouted him out of Virginia Tech in 2008. While others saw flaws, Martin saw a future franchise left tackle. Houston was fortunate to land Brown with the 26th pick in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft. Landing a pro bowl left tackle late in the first round is not an easy feat."

I have no doubt that Gibbs was high on Brown and heavily influenced the pick, but if you think that your O-line coach had the spare time during the season to go scout college games and ended up discovering Brown all by himself...

Gibbs wasn't employed the yr that was Brown's Sr. yr. So yes he had time.

Probably Gibbs looked at film of the top 10 OT's and thought Brown would be the best fit after coaching him up. Seeing that Brown was projected to go in the 3rd rd Gibbs knew Brown would be available late in the 1st Hence the trade down with the Ravens.

But give the Texans scouts credit, they did give Gibbs tape to watch on many OT's in that draft.

 

[infantrycak]

Brown was personally worked out and the handpicked guy of the great HOF'er Alex Gibbs.

I guess if you and Texian repeat this little fantasy often enough it will become fact.

So you're saying you have no idea if he did or not?

Edit: Dammit!
I fed the troll.
$1.00 ---> Troll Jar

Ditto.

Um, we didn't scout Foster.. His girlfriend scouted us. They started pulling up teams and were looking for team's with crappy RB depth charts.. They picked us, because since Foster was undrafted they felt Houston was their best chance to stick with a team and make a NFL roster. I give Houston zero credit on that one.. They just lucked into it.

It's not either or. That's why he accepted not why we called.

 

[JB]

I guess if you and Texian repeat this little fantasy often enough it will become fact.



Ditto.



It's not either or. That's why he accepted not why we called.

This is an either/or world for a lot of folks it seems. Everything has to fit in a nice neat package just the way they dream it to be. Everything else is fallacy and make believe. The possibility that numerous little points led up to a decision is unthinkable, as is the possibility that only one voice is heard on any subject matter

 

[steelbtexan]

I guess if you and Texian repeat this little fantasy often enough it will become fact.



Ditto.



It's not either or. That's why he accepted not why we called.

Are you saying Brown wasn't Gibbs pick?


The Texans FO does no wrong according to you. Hope you loved the mediocrity of the Kubiak yrs. If your going to be a build by the draft type of team you must do much better than the Texans have been doing. IMHO

 

[JB]

Are you saying Brown wasn't Gibbs pick?

I don't think Gibbs was the sole voice in the decision to draft Brown. I think the scouts presented a number of candidates for OLT, discussion was held on where most value would be and Gibbs gave his opinion that Brown would be a very good LT. He didn't just override everyone and say "I want this guy"

 

[thunderkyss]

Are you saying Brown wasn't Gibbs pick?


The Texans FO does no wrong according to you. Hope you loved the mediocrity of the Kubiak yrs. If your going to be a build by the draft type of team you must do much better than the Texans have been doing. IMHO

Not to be argumentative or anything, but do you see how this "can't do any wrong" attitude from 'cak is annoying? Just imagine if there was a guy here with the "can't do anything right" attitude.

Most of us believe the FO is actually some where in the middle & we're giving the most recent decisions (OB+Rick) time to play out.

 

[PapaL]

I don't understand this fascination of "whose pick was it". Is it the intern's pick if he hands the card to the commissioner? Or is it the first level scout's pick since he first saw player X? To me, they operate as a unit.

 

[thunderkyss]

I don't think Gibbs was the sole voice in the decision to draft Brown. I think the scouts presented a number of candidates for OLT, discussion was held on where most value would be and Gibbs gave his opinion that Brown would be a very good LT. He didn't just override everyone and say "I want this guy"

I remember Kubiak telling the story a while back & from his telling I gathered they (as a group) targeted Brown, Gibbs was a big part of that decision. Smith had the option to trade down/up or whatever, & it was his decision alone. Kubiak was thankful that Smith didn't trade down again (though the opportunity was there) & went ahead & took Brown there.

 

[disaacks3]

I don't think Gibbs was the sole voice in the decision to draft Brown. I think the scouts presented a number of candidates for OLT, discussion was held on where most value would be and Gibbs gave his opinion that Brown would be a very good LT. He didn't just override everyone and say "I want this guy"

Lots of input, but Gibbs certainly had their attention regarding what he thought of Brown. Link

 

[infantrycak]

Are you saying Brown wasn't Gibbs pick?

No, I'm saying JUST LIKE I SAY ON ALMOST EVERYTHING - we don't know and most likely it was a group decision.

What we do know for a fact is every pick/decision you like you ascribe to someone you like at the moment, Gibbs, Wade, RAC, OB rather than anyone you dislike, Kubiak/Smith/McNair...and every pick/decision you don't like is credited to Smith/McNair/Kubiak. ALL done without any knowledge and solely to further your agenda.

The Texans FO does no wrong according to you.

No that's how you like to portray it...while ignoring the things I say I disagree with.

And no I'm not going to list disagreements for you AGAIN. You'll just ignore them AGAIN.

I don't think Gibbs was the sole voice in the decision to draft Brown. I think the scouts presented a number of candidates for OLT, discussion was held on where most value would be and Gibbs gave his opinion that Brown would be a very good LT. He didn't just override everyone and say "I want this guy"

Exactly.

I don't understand this fascination of "whose pick was it". Is it the intern's pick if he hands the card to the commissioner? Or is it the first level scout's pick since he first saw player X? To me, they operate as a unit.

Ditto.

Contrary to the delusions of some, we barely know anything of the inner workings. We get little bittie glances every once in a while from a comment like Kubiak saying Casserly convinced him to take Daniels. So (a) credit to Casserly rather than Kubiak for that pick (contrary to the Kubiak TE meme) and (b) Kubiak was in charge of that draft. But those glimpses are rare. To me the bottom line is good/bad pick/decision.

 

[steelbtexan]

Not to be argumentative or anything, but do you see how this "can't do any wrong" attitude from 'cak is annoying? Just imagine if there was a guy here with the "can't do anything right" attitude.

Most of us believe the FO is actually some where in the middle & we're giving the most recent decisions (OB+Rick) time to play out.

I've pointed out things the FO has done right. The draft isn't one of those things. You're entitled to your opinion, Exhibits A/B, 2013/2014 drafts.

The middle would be 7-9/8-8/9-7 so I guess you're right on this one. Some fans expect more. Obviously these fans aren't on this MB.

What would you consider a successful season next yr?

As Corrosion said Rick and the scouts are the ones who didn't provide enough talent for Kubiak to win and those people are still in the FO so I really expect more of the same. Unless Kubiak was a terrible HC and I don't think that's the case.

 

[steelbtexan]

No, I'm saying JUST LIKE I SAY ON ALMOST EVERYTHING - we don't know and most likely it was a group decision.



No that's how you like to portray it...while ignoring the things I say I disagree with.

And no I'm not going to list disagreements for you AGAIN. You'll just ignore them AGAIN.



Exactly.



Ditto.

Contrary to the delusions of some, we aren't the boss of these folks. We don't know everything that goes down. To me the bottom line is good/bad pick/decision.

Whatever dude, Gibbs came out of retirement and was promised a 1st rd pick of the OT of his choice. Do you not think Wade came out of retirement and was promised a 1st rd pick that turned into Watt? That's what was reported?


Why it matters is the crap drafts of 2013/2014 because if the cancer remains you can expect more of the same. We are never going to agree but the record is what it is despite your best arguments. What do you disagree with how the Texans FO is being run?

 

[infantrycak]

Whatever dude, Gibbs came out of retirement and was promised a 1st rd pick of the OT of his choice.

Prove it without citing Texian.

Do you not think Wade came out of retirement and was promised a 1st rd pick that turned into Watt? That's what was reported?

No it's not unless Texian is a reporter. He says, you copy. And he's a freaking Colts fan.

What we do know is WATT WAS NOT THE TARGET. Patrick Peterson was the target of the move Smith had in place.

We are never going to agree but the record is what it is despite your best arguments.

Saying we don't know and you are making **** up is not an argument. They're facts.

What do you disagree with how the Texans FO is being run?

You're not tracking at all huh? I have said I disagree with picks/decisions of the Texans. I don't try to blame Kubiak/OB/Smith/McNair specifically unless I know whose decision it was which means 99% of the time it's a mistake of the Texans.

 

[thunderkyss]

I've pointed out things the FO has done right. The draft isn't one of those things. You're entitled to your opinion, Exhibits A/B, 2013/2014 drafts.

The middle would be 7-9/8-8/9-7 so I guess you're right on this one. Some fans expect more. Obviously these fans aren't on this MB.

What would you consider a successful season next yr?

As Corrosion said Rick and the scouts are the ones who didn't provide enough talent for Kubiak to win and those people are still in the FO so I really expect more of the same. Unless Kubiak was a terrible HC and I don't think that's the case.

2011 10-6
2012 12-4
2013 2-14
2014 9-7

I think we've got, & have had the talent to win. By firing Kubiak & Keeping Rick, McNair has made it clear he believes the same thing.

 

[disaacks3]

It got me looking at those drafts and seeing how many players remain in the NFL (Active on a Roster). My, but there are some lean years in there.

2003 - (1) Andre Johnson

2004 - (1) Jason Babin

2005 - (0)

2006 - (4) Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels

2007 - (1) Jacoby Jones

2008 - (1) Duane Brown

2009 - (5) Brian Cushing, Connor Barwin, Glover Quin, James Casey, Brice McCain

2010 - (6) Kareem Jackson, Earl Mitchell, Darryl Sharpton, Garrett Graham, Sherrick McManis, Shelley Smith