Front office loyalty to Carr and possible implications

[Carr Bombed]

How did that MVP for Mcnabb work out, must of been that black on black crime he suffered from I hope he recovers from the attack

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Very good logic. But I would argue that we have been anything but logical in our spending or "surrendering" of picks in the past. We know what we will get out of the current team, at its best, and that is seven wins. We reupped on our highest paid player and have not given him or our defense the tools they need to succeed. Coaching changes will help and I believe it would be a stretch for just the staff to get us back to our high water mark of seven wins.

I see overreaching for an LT or DE at this moment than picking Bush if a trade down partner does not develop.

One of the Texans' hope has to be that someone becomes as illogical as they have been and will trade up anyway. I believe it is unlikely, but not out of the question.

I don't see the Texans making the sort of football related move that you are suggesting with drafting a LT or DE anyway. That would be the boldest of the bold moves. The safest and best business move (and not a bad football move) is going with the chalk. With Bob mcNair sticking his nose into the football decisions to a greater extent, I expect business and safety to rule out in the end.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I agree david carr sucks.:brickwall :brickwall

McNabb MVP in '05? More like biggest dissapointment in '05. Welcome to the board you will do well here as you walked into our most heated debate which will seem like Sunday School compared to your team's fans.

 

[thunderkyss]

There is some difference though. The Broncos had proven they could turn any RB into a 1400 producer (already had done so with Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, and Mike Anderson in the previous four seasons) and they still had Anderson on their team along with Reuben Droughns that also put up a 1000 yard season after Portis left.

I really think We have the backs right now, to put us in a similar situation. I can easily see DD getting 1400 yards, and then some, with a more Denver like system.

Later, you point out that RB, and VY aren't NFL elites yet..... that's true, but none of the NFL Elites were on draft day either. I think it is easier to look at these two prospects as future elites, than many others in this draft, and drafts from recent history.

 

[cuppacoffee]

Overspending for an average QB means you can't pay other positions as well as you could if you chose not to. It's not a personal opinion (about DC's character)....its a football opinion - no knives out here.

That is the crux of the arguments on this board. Carr has never been put into the position of being anything but average.

I think it is. The Broncos traded the back most like Bush (Portis) and went with a back more like Dom a year ago....You can find backs everywhere, all the time, and in any draft. Elite QB's are much tougher to secure.

Am I correct in thinking you are referring to the mighty VY here?

There have been many 'elite' college qb's fail in the NFL.
Young will be one of these qb's. My opinion, no knives here either.

Additionally, you cannot find backs everywhere, all the time, and in any draft that possess the skills of Bush. If you truly believe this, then I have seriously overrated your judgement/opinion of football talent.

 

[thunderkyss]

Additionally, you cannot find backs everywhere, all the time, and in any draft that possess the skills of Bush. If you truly believe this, then I have seriously overrated your judgement/opinion of football talent.

I'm old school. All that fancy stuff Bush does spread out, and racing to the corner doesn't impress me. He's awesome, he'll be an elite one day, I'm sure of it. But I don't want him on my team. I've got no use for him.

 

[houstonhurricane]

thunder,

Instead, are you saying that we have room on "our" roster for a qb who will sit on the bench for a year or two? Or are you a proponent of seeing if the market will bear trading down?

I like the idea of adding an immediate impact playmaker to the roster. And that is exactly what RB brings to the table. He not only serves as an extremely quick back out of the backfield, he would also become an immediate WR2 on our team (much quicker and better hands than Gaffney, etc.). However, if someone packages a great deal - and that must be picks 2 - 4 so we could ensure we get Brick - then I am all about the trade down.

 

[jerek]

thunder,

Instead, are you saying that we have room on "our" roster for a qb who will sit on the bench for a year or two? Or are you a proponent of seeing if the market will bear trading down?

I like the idea of adding an immediate impact playmaker to the roster. And that is exactly what RB brings to the table. He not only serves as an extremely quick back out of the backfield, he would also become an immediate WR2 on our team (much quicker and better hands than Gaffney, etc.). However, if someone packages a great deal - and that must be picks 2 - 4 so we could ensure we get Brick - then I am all about the trade down.

This is essentially my line of thinking. Bush is a viable playmaker - not sure if he is a #1 featured back, but could fare well in a Denver RBBC type system, as well as lining up in the slot 5-8 times per game. But the trade down possibilites are something very much to be considered as well.

Though I do like Gaffney as a WR and think he has been under-utilized to this point.

 

[thunderkyss]

thunder,

Instead, are you saying that we have room on "our" roster for a qb who will sit on the bench for a year or two? Or are you a proponent of seeing if the market will bear trading down?

I like the idea of adding an immediate impact playmaker to the roster. And that is exactly what RB brings to the table. He not only serves as an extremely quick back out of the backfield, he would also become an immediate WR2 on our team (much quicker and better hands than Gaffney, etc.). However, if someone packages a great deal - and that must be picks 2 - 4 so we could ensure we get Brick - then I am all about the trade down.

I'm really in the trade down camp. I don't necessarily think D'Brick should be the target though. But I think if we are going to use the pick, I think we should put Vince on the bench, and let him study with Kubiak & Sherman. I think Carr will show us in the next year, that he'll never be a Peyton, or a Brady....... I've always thought David was a good enough QB, never would have used a #1 overall on him. Vince, I think is the kind of QB that you would use a #1 overall on.

 

[Vinny]

Additionally, you cannot find backs everywhere, all the time, and in any draft that possess the skills of Bush. If you truly believe this, then I have seriously overrated your judgement/opinion of football talent.

Backs are availble in the FA market every year. Starting caliber NFL backs are all over the first day of every draft....one reason guys like Henry and Edge couldn't get a trade partner willing to trade a high pick the last few years. I could care less what you think of my opinion btw.

 

[SESupergenius]

Throwing good money after bad is what I see. I can only hope for the best...but I'm not real happy with this off-season so far.

That was me last season, it can't get any worse, well maybe 0-16, but that is splitting hairs. They've at least got rid of Fangio, that should be 4 wins right there.

 

[SESupergenius]

....You can find backs everywhere, all the time, and in any draft. Elite QB's are much tougher to secure.

Then no need to go after another high draft pick if the QB trend is to find one in later rounds (Brady, Warner, Dilfer) Roethlisberger was drafted high, but I wouldn't say he won the Super Bowl without that defense giving him such a good backbone. No need to go after Young if we can find one in later rounds, which is what we should do this year because Banks isn't it.

 

[aj.]

I wanted Young but I'm a Texans fan first so I'll live with their decision because I really have no choice. Carr is getting a second chance and hopefully he can turn his career around. If he can, that's great for all of us. If he can't ... well ... I don't even want to go there so I hope he succeeds - for all of our sake. Right or wrong, fans will not have a lot of patience with him this season and he will need to turn it around quickly - and rightfully so, because one of the reasons they are keeping him is because he is already "ahead of a rookie QB" in terms of the speed of game and those adjustments and experience. What I don't want to hear 1 1/2 years from now is "just give him time, it's a new system." I'll be cashing social security checks and we'll still be talking about haircuts, leadership and potential.

 

[thunderkyss]

because one of the reasons they are keeping him is because he is already "ahead of a rookie QB" in terms of the speed of game and those adjustments and experience.

What have you seen that makes you believe David Carr knows how to read an NFL defense?? Let me in on the secret....... please.

 

[aj.]

What have you seen that makes you believe David Carr knows how to read an NFL defense?? Let me in on the secret....... please.

Just because I state something the Texans are probably thinking, doesn't mean I necessarily subscribe to it. That's why I was throwing quotation marks around.

He has experience, but a lot of it is bad experience. One of Kubiak and Calhoun's main jobs early on will be to break DC of some bad habits.

 

[SESupergenius]

It's taken Plummer almost 3 years with the offensive system of the Broncos to get some acclaim for his numbers, that's the only guage I can go by now with Carr. Plummer was put into a team that went 9-7 the previous season. Expecting Carr to go from 2-14 to playoffs is a little unreasonable. I don't want to hear that it's Carr's fault if we don't put up 30 points because our defense let up 31. I do expect them to improve to at least 6 wins next year, depending on how this offseason goes, like I said, getting rid of Fangio was at least worth 4. Call me crazy.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

It's taken Plummer almost 3 years with the offensive system of the Broncos to get some acclaim for his numbers, that's the only guage I can go by now with Carr. Plummer was put into a team that went 9-7 the previous season. Expecting Carr to go from 2-14 to playoffs is a little unreasonable. I don't want to hear that it's Carr's fault if we don't put up 30 points because our defense let up 31. I do expect them to improve to at least 6 wins next year, depending on how this offseason goes, like I said, getting rid of Fangio was at least worth 2. Call me crazy.

Crazy, but not because of this post.

 

[cuppacoffee]

I'm old school. All that fancy stuff Bush does spread out, and racing to the corner doesn't impress me. He's awesome, he'll be an elite one day, I'm sure of it. But I don't want him on my team. I've got no use for him.

Sounds like a VY description to me. High School spread out offense.

 

[SESupergenius]

Crazy, but not because of this post.

That's what most people called me when I said our team wasn't good after all the Casserly shenanigans last offseason. I'm still looney I guess.

 

[thunderkyss]

Sounds like a VY description to me. High School spread out offense.

I see your point.


But Vince has what I want in an NFL QB. The ability to make plays, once the play is broken. Sure, some people like the throw it away QB(Peyton) or the run for positive yards QB(Carr) I want the It's not over till I say it's over QB(Favre).

The offensive system, proper throwing technique, footwork..... that's all teachable.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

That's what most people called me when I said our team wasn't good after all the Casserly shenanigans last offseason. I'm still looney I guess.

I was probably one of them as I was "more optimistic" with a 7-9 record and that is if DC performed at his third year level. Once again proving that I really do not know what the heck I am talking about.

 

[SESupergenius]

I was probably one of them as I was "more optimistic" with a 7-9 record and that is if DC performed at his third year level. Once again proving that I really do not know what the heck I am talking about.

Well, you get a clean slate because really no one has a clue on how all of this is going to come out.

 

[chuckm]

Well, you get a clean slate because really no one has a clue on how all of this is going to come out.

speak for yourself buddy ....

Today's been pretty contentious but I suspect that draft day will far surpass it ....

 

[Kaiser Toro]

speak for yourself buddy ....

Today's been pretty contentious but I suspect that draft day will far surpass it ....

Who invited you to the group hug? You're one click away from my ignore list.

 

[chuckm]

Who invited you to the group hug? You're one click away from my ignore list.

noooooooooooooooooooo I can change ....

 

[infantrycak]

Get a room or start internet singing kum-bah-yah. Don't y'all (just a non-subtle reminder for all y'all who can't spell a four letter word like y'all--9 out of 10 teachers say repetition works) know there is no room for non-extremism around here?

 

[chuckm]

--9 out of 10 teachers say repetition works) know there is no room for non-extremism around here?

hmmm are you sure about this?

Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks
Carr Sucks

Holy Toledo .... you're right ... get McNair on the phone ....

 

[Dr. Toro]

I'd like to see a little stick to go with this $24 million carrot. Pick up a backup capable of pushing Carr (McCown/Kitna) or draft Young. If Carr is valued at $8 million per, there's gotta be more value placed on Plan B.

Some people are intrinsically motivated to succeed. Others need to be pushed. It seems like we're hoping that this guy has that intrinsic desire, and that 50 million dollars and 200 sacks won't/hasn't diminished it.

 

[cuppacoffee]

Backs are availble in the FA market every year. Starting caliber NFL backs are all over the first day of every draft....one reason guys like Henry and Edge couldn't get a trade partner willing to trade a high pick the last few years. I could care less what you think of my opinion btw.

Fair enough...
Its just that over a period of time there are certain posters that most of us on this board seem to lead more credence to than others. My fault. I will personally assign less importance to your opinions in the future and keep my opinion of your opinions to myself.... we're

BTW.... Bush will be a better, more productive player, than either of the players you named.

But that is JMHO though.

 

[Vinny]

fine by me

 

[thunderkyss]

I strongly disagree just because the QB got a new deal we have to go out and throw the ball throw the roof. The offense will do that regardless.

The QB reminds me off a XBOX........
If you have the system(QB) by itself it is not going to work.
You have to get cables, inputs for HD, a HDTV, a controler, a game and a PERSON(Kubiak) that knows how the system works, how to plug it in, how to get the best out of the XBOX(Mr.McNair).

and Vince is the Xbox 360...



couldn't resist.

 

[whiskeyrbl]

With Morency having one year under his belt, and all ships rising due to the Kubiak Tsunami, he will be able to foster the load that will extend Davis through the season. And if you think Davis is injury prone, then how in the heck are we going to move him to another team?

The value of the running game will have to take a backseat next year in order to show Kubiak's touch on Carr and the passing game. Expect an upgrade on the O line, TE and WR (including resign of Gaff). I know people will say Bush at WR, but how many routes has he run in the NFL? In a Kubiak offense? How will he block? Will he pick up the playbook? Zone blocking? With one unproven 8 million dollar man extended the prospect of another unproven 7 million dollar man joining him in the backfield next year is nil in my opinion.

This can be said about any rookie coming into the NFL

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I strongly disagree just because the QB got a new deal we have to go out and throw the ball throw the roof. The offense will do that regardless.

The QB reminds me off a XBOX........
If you have the system(QB) by itself it is not going to work.
You have to get cables, inputs for HD, a HDTV, a controler, a game and a PERSON(Kubiak) that knows how the system works, how to plug it in, how to get the best out of the XBOX(Mr.McNair).

Mr. McNair is not getting burned twice on this investment. Moreover, Kubiak was brought in as an offensive whiz and the backlash for not bringing in Young will be real (not that it bothers me). He will have to have measurements. This ain't XBOX, this is a business.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

This can be said about any rookie coming into the NFL

You may have missed my point or you may be the type that will spend franchise type money on unproven NFL players. Either way is cool as neither of us have a job on the line for this pending decision.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I really think Carr is in a can't win situation . He has to come out strong next year or he'll get booed for every little mistake . If he plays good the fans will say its about time .

I wonder if the Texans feel the tension on this or is it a no brainer ? Gary Kubiak finally gets his HC job and does'nt even get a honeymoon .

 

[Double Barrel]

and Vince is the Xbox 360...

couldn't resist.

And Reggie Bush is the Playstation 3 then?

Sorry, I couldn't resist, either.

I gotta' say that I'm supporting the FO decisions because I'm a fan.

But the idea of spending elite QB money on Carr is a little suspect. I won't boo the dude, and I'll cheer him on as our team's QB....but...I certainly respect the pov of all three camps (ie. Bush, Young, or trade down), as they all have some validity to their arguments.

 

[jerek]

and Vince is the Xbox 360...



couldn't resist.

A buggy, overpriced piece of crap that doesn't begin to compare to a mere PC four years his senior? ;-)

 

[whiskeyrbl]

You may have missed my point or you may be the type that will spend franchise type money on unproven NFL players. Either way is cool as neither of us have a job on the line for this pending decision.

I haven't missed your point i agree that Carr at this point is overpaid,but,if everyone they talked to said Carr is not the problem,you have got to put personel around him to give him that extra 2 seconds in the pocket he needs.From what i hear Bush is an excellent blocker and picks up the blitz well.Something DD has not proved he can do yet.And as far as the running game taking a backseat i think that is as far from the truth as you can get.Ball control wins games.Just a penny for your thoughts on this,If Bush comes in and proves to be athreat as he has on every level so far,don't you believe a play action will just freeze the LB's and DB's in their tracks allowing that extra 2 seconds and freeing up at least 1 receiver?

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

The biggest problem would be the Texans FO telling Bob what he wants to hear just to get or keep a job .

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I haven't missed your point i agree that Carr at this point is overpaid,but,if everyone they talked to said Carr is not the problem,you have got to put personel around him to give him that extra 2 seconds in the pocket he needs.From what i hear Bush is an excellent blocker and picks up the blitz well.Something DD has not proved he can do yet.And as far as the running game taking a backseat i think that is as far from the truth as you can get.Ball control wins games.Just a penny for your thoughts on this,If Bush comes in and proves to be athreat as he has on every level so far,don't you believe a play action will just freeze the LB's and DB's in their tracks allowing that extra 2 seconds and freeing up at least 1 receiver?

There are a lot of if's there and you have not even taken into consideration how valuable Davis and Morency may be in Kubiak and Reeves eyes. Remember he kept the RB coach on staff.

Expectations are not high next year, so why risk so much money on an unproven talent at a non need position?

 

[whiskeyrbl]

There are a lot of if's there and you have not even taken into consideration how valuable Davis and Morency may be in Kubiak and Reeves eyes. Remember he kept the RB coach on staff.

Expectations are not high next year, so why risk so much money on an unproven talent at a non need position?

There is always going to be IF's in this situation.KubiaK likes to run a RB by commitee, so DD/Bush /Moreancy,seems like a very stoudt RB corp.I think you and i can agree that we will miss the playoffs this year.Take this year get your weapons ,build the line and D 2-7 rd. and FA and the draft and FA next year, and i think then we can be contenders.I think their is enough talent in the draft to take that "IF" chance on Bush. Just my opinion.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

There is always going to be IF's in this situation.KubiaK likes to run a RB by commitee, so DD/Bush /Moreancy,seems like a very stoudt RB corp.I think you and i can agree that we will miss the playoffs this year.Take this year get your weapons ,build the line and D 2-7 rd. and FA and the draft and FA next year, and i think then we can be contenders.I think their is enough talent in the draft to take that "IF" chance on Bush. Just my opinion.

Enjoy the offseason my man, we will have to agree to disagree later. Getting worn out.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I saw him today at the reception
A pen and contract in his hand
I knew he would get his extension
At his feet was the football man

No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
And if you try sometime you find
You get what you need

And I went down to the message board demonstration
To get my fair share of abuse
Singing, "We're gonna vent our frustration
If we don't we're gonna blow a 50-amp fuse"
Sing it to me now...

You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need
Oh baby, yeah, yeah!

I went down to the Fannin drugstore
To get my prescription filled
I was standing in line with Mr. McClain
And man, did he look pretty ill
We decided that we would have a soda
My favorite flavor, battle red
I sung my song to Mr. McClain
Yeah, and he said one word to me, and that was "dead"
I said to him

You can't always get what you want, no!
You can't always get what you want (tell ya baby)
You can't always get what you want (no)
But if you try sometimes you just might find
You get what you need
Oh yes! Woo!