The Depression Thread
This is my favorite so far...
"When we go to the Super Bowl again, can we PLEASE not wear orange?"
LOL
This is my favorite so far...
"When we go to the Super Bowl again, can we PLEASE not wear orange?"
LOL
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For your enjoyment ... The Broncos Depression thread
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Maybe someone can figure out this - how many times has a team appeared in the SB with the #1 offense and #1 defense and what were the results?
This is Broncos related because the only example I know of is the 1977 Cowboys who beat the Broncos.
This is Broncos related because the only example I know of is the 1977 Cowboys who beat the Broncos.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well that's a different question and I used the conventional yardage measurement. Think I may start another thread...
eriadoc
Texan-American
The announcers yesterday said it was the 5th time that a #1 defense faced a #1 offense in the Super Bowl. The defense had won 3 of 4 going into yesterday's game. They didn't specify the metrics for the ranking, though. It was just one of those quick announcer stats.
If I'm reading your question right, they mentioned that this is the sixth Super Bowl with the #1 defense vs. the #1 offense.
Defense is 5-1 in those games.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Apparently I worded ambiguously. I was talking A team who was good at both. The 1977 Cowboys had the #1 offense AND the #1 defense on yards.
See new thread.
See new thread.
Ahhh, I gotcha'. I saw your other thread, as well. Should be an interesting discussion.
As far as this thread, I was researching and there is a lot of ambiguity involved.
Some articles are using the metric of no. 1 scoring offense vs. no. 1 scoring defense and other such examples.
I found one article that alluded to my 5-1 stat, but it did not give specific examples of teams and Super Bowls:
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
all I can hink about I how would things have been different if peyton came to Houston
how can Kubes or even rick IDK who it was not even give a sniff for him ...???? they tottaly over valued the forseeing of Schaub cus at the time even he was coming of a major liss frank injury
they failed to evulate the future IDK im always going to wonder this
Peyton to Andre man I bet he would even had made kevin walter a 1k+ reviver
how can Kubes or even rick IDK who it was not even give a sniff for him ...???? they tottaly over valued the forseeing of Schaub cus at the time even he was coming of a major liss frank injury
they failed to evulate the future IDK im always going to wonder this
Peyton to Andre man I bet he would even had made kevin walter a 1k+ reviver
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Don't know where they got that from, but the only Super Bowl other than yesterday where the #1 ranked offense (and this is the conventional total yards ranking) played the #1 ranked defense was Super Bowl 37 - Tampa Bay's #1 D over Oakland's #1 O.
That's it. I don't know where they're coming up with this being the 6th time it's happened. Maybe they mean playoffs, but it's happened just 2 times in the Super Bowl.
They had a graphic for it and everything.
Wish I still had it recorded so I could write down the teams and specific Super Bowls to do some research on how they arrived at the conclusion. But it was definitely framed as #1 D vs. #1 O in SB. My buddy and I paused it to check it out.
***EDIT: Here you go:
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
They had a graphic for it and everything.
Wish I still had it recorded so I could write down the teams and specific Super Bowls to do some research on how they arrived at the conclusion. But it was definitely framed as #1 D vs. #1 O in SB. My buddy and I paused it to check it out.
***EDIT: Here you go:
So it was scoring and not yardage. That would explain it.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Yeah, us Texans get that mixed up. :kubepalm:
One stat they showed on NFLN last night kinda' blew my mind.
They said out of the top 8 scoring offenses of all time, only three made it to the Super Bowl. And all three of them lost the game.
I'd be curious to see an analysis of where the defenses ranked in the last 20 or so Super Bowl winners. The media and public likes to focus on the QB so much that we often overlook the team aspect. But, I'd be curious about the old mantra "defenses win championships" to see how many of these championship QBs had top ranked defenses (not necessarily #1, but say in the top 5 or so).
Okay, so just did a quick google search of "super bowl champions defensive rankings" and found the following articles:
Study of Super Bowl champs shows dominance on one side of ball is enough
And here is a well researched article:
Interesting that defense still makes a huge difference in post season and championship games. This is a very offense-friendly league these days, so you'd think that would continue into the playoffs. But, defenses still make a huge impact on games, which we clearly saw with the high scoring offense of all time with a HoF QB being held to a mere 8 points last Sunday.
They said out of the top 8 scoring offenses of all time, only three made it to the Super Bowl. And all three of them lost the game.
I'd be curious to see an analysis of where the defenses ranked in the last 20 or so Super Bowl winners. The media and public likes to focus on the QB so much that we often overlook the team aspect. But, I'd be curious about the old mantra "defenses win championships" to see how many of these championship QBs had top ranked defenses (not necessarily #1, but say in the top 5 or so).
Okay, so just did a quick google search of "super bowl champions defensive rankings" and found the following articles:
Study of Super Bowl champs shows dominance on one side of ball is enough
And here is a well researched article:
Interesting that defense still makes a huge difference in post season and championship games. This is a very offense-friendly league these days, so you'd think that would continue into the playoffs. But, defenses still make a huge impact on games, which we clearly saw with the high scoring offense of all time with a HoF QB being held to a mere 8 points last Sunday.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think the "let them play" attitude of the refs in the post-season contributes to that.
The Seahawks played all season this year as if the refs were calling it that way and largely got away with it. Maybe more DCs need to accept a few more flags.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Didnt the 99 rams have the best offense that year? They beat the Tacks in the SB.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
1999-2001 the Rams were #1 in both points and yardage on O.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Yep..and they did win a sb, so the #1 offense has won a sb in semi recent history.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
There is no magic formula for winning the super bowl. You first have to manage to get there, then you have to have a very good game on that particular day. You don't have to have been a good team on either side of the ball during the regular season, you just have to get into and survive the playoffs.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
This is the best graphic to illustrate the Denver area's sadness:
Yep, but they had a good defense, as well.
And what do we remember about that Super Bowl?
The Rams defense stopping the Titans one yard short. Not the offense outscoring the Titans, but the defense making a stand to win the game.
Formulating your "best" ranking by ability to score and ability to prevent scoring makes waaaay more sense to me anyway. Last I looked, no one got credit for a win solely because they had the most yards.
stingray
Hall of Fame
Im not disagreeing about elite defenses winning over elite offenses. Just pointing out that the best overall offense has won a sb before. The rams actually had a top 10 defense that year if I recall directly. So in essence you have to be balanced.
Oh yeah, no disagreement at all. Very great conversation and I appreciate all the different perspectives and analysis.
I find trends to be very interesting. I'm a big fan of defense, and while regular season seems to be owned by offense, the post season is clearly when having a great defense makes the difference. Not too many creampuff teams in the playoffs, so the regular season offensive stats sometimes blind us.
The interesting part about the NFLN stat about top 8 top scoring offenses is that the '99 Rams is 9th on the list! lol!
Breakdown:
Based on the above, only 1 in 13 of the top all time scoring offenses won a Super Bowl (and as mentioned, they still had a solid defense).
Honestly, this stat kind of surprises me. I would have thought/assumed that the highest scoring offense would have a clear advantage in the playoffs/Super Bowl. But instead, it is the exact opposite.
stingray
Hall of Fame
The Rams had some luck just to get in the SB in 99. In the NFC championship, the Bucs would have probably won the game if they would have counted a catch by Bert Emanuel in the 4th quarter that looked like a definite catch. The reciever had control of the ball but it the nose touched the ground. They changed rule after that season. And the Rams only scored 11 points in that game.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
This is the best graphic to illustrate the Denver area's sadness:
msr
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I don't disagree with that, but it's how it's presented to us by the talking heads. For most of this past season everyone said the Texans had the #1 defense and that was based solely on yards allowed. We all knew better. So if an announcer of a game told viewers that so and so has the #1 defense, I would assume that's what they were talking about - yardage - unless they specifically stated scoring defense.
I agree that we need something better than yards gained or allowed to rank offenses and defenses. Points is definitely a much better indicator but that doesn't tell the whole story either.
Troy Aikman has a ranking system that takes a lot of things into account (don't get me lying about what though) when he ranks offense and defense that tells a whole lot better story than yards gained and allowed. He had the Texans D ranked mid to upper 20's for most of the year, which sounds right about where they should have been.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
This is the best graphic to illustrate the Denver area's sadness:
Well all that graph suggests is that neither city has any "staying" power much beyond 1:00 am, irrespective of time zone. I was watching well into the 3:00/4:00am range.
