EmDiggy
Waterboy
No Prob Cap'n! I actually enjoy back and forth banter
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Football Gameplan's 2012 Wk 4 Texans vs Titans Video Preview
- Thread starter EmDiggy
- Start date
No Prob Cap'n! I actually enjoy back and forth banter
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
Oh come on people, he's not a troll. He just has a different (maybe a bit crazy) viewpoint.
Em, I get the feeling sometimes that its not so much that you don't like the players but our running scheme. Do you buy into the school of thought that this Denver based ABS is 70% scheme 30% running back talent? If so what would change your mind cause I really think these guys are more talented than you are giving them credit for.
Em, I get the feeling sometimes that its not so much that you don't like the players but our running scheme. Do you buy into the school of thought that this Denver based ABS is 70% scheme 30% running back talent? If so what would change your mind cause I really think these guys are more talented than you are giving them credit for.
EmDiggy
Waterboy
Thanks JC! I'm conflicted when its about scheme/system... Although it helps, it ultimately depends on the the talent in it. For instance, there's a difference between Terrell Davis, Arian Foster, Clinton Portis as opposed to Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Mike Bell and Ben Tate. Exceptional talent in the right system will put up numbers like the first group of backs and solid talent will put up yards like the latter.
What the ZBS RB HAS to have is acceleration and above-average field vision. Just like some backs need to be told what hole to go to.. the ZBS RB just needs a landmark hence (Inside/Outside Zone)
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
I know a guy who had the talent to be great in the NFL, but he got caught up in drugs. So in a matchup between him and Arian I'd say its a wash.
EmDiggy
Waterboy
Try... but
You just don't know. In the Texans ZBS this guy would run for 3000 yards. You better recognize!
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
First off, a "classic" logical fallacy is the Argument from Authority. "I know more than you do therefore you're wrong." Just because you've been something doesn't mean you're right. It gives you perspective and insight and that's it.
And there's a HUGE difference between "the stats only tell a small portion" and "numbers always lie." Numbers don't lie, people do. Numbers don't mislead, people do. People use numbers to show one thing or another. The numbers are what they are.
One of the huge flaws in what you're doing (and that started this whole thing) is that you're comparing group to group. That's a totally irrelevant comparison. Who's the better Running Back? Who has the better defensive line? Doesn't matter. What matters is the running attack of Team A vs. the Defense against the run of Team B or the passing attack vs. the pass defense. That's what matters. Who's going to win and why, that's what matters.
But who has the better running back is just mental masturbation. Reggie Bush's talent level and skill set means jack if it's not used to win the game. If he's in New Orleans and they've got him sitting on the sidelines in short yardage situations, the fact he COULD break a long run is irrelevant.
You lost me as a viewer as soon as you started comparing the talent levels of Bush and Foster. You lost all credibility. Cause it doesn't matter what your experience is if you not giving me something useful or informative.
EmDiggy
Waterboy
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Maybe if you define your opinion of "skill-set" when it comes to RB position.
Texan fans feel that you are slighting their RB's because of OL & run blocking scheme. The Titans OL is no chopped liver either as they lead league in pass pro, so they can control line of scrimmage to a high level as well. That's a push.
As a fan of RB's how can anyone in the league even compare to Arian Fosters skill set- production, athletic & big play ability, leadership/character, balance, power, ability to run after the catch, yards after contact, blocker, vision etc....
Chris Johnson was a phenomenal talent, but it's been two years since he flashed that explosive power & elusiveness. I remember him from scouting him during his college days @ ECU so familiar w/his "skill-set" last 6 years but he never, despite early production, looked like a durable, franchise RB on the road to Canton unlike Arian Foster.
There is a kid playing right now with the Oregon Ducks, named De'Anthony Thomas, closest thing I've seen since to CJ. Explosive speed, ability to cut-back on a dime & fearlessness to run between the tackles, yet nobody strikes me as the next AF.
Thats all you got ?
I have to admit , you never had me as a viewer .... but this thread will make sure you never have me as a viewer .... I wont support you with clicks.
EmDiggy
Waterboy
Maybe if you define your opinion of "skill-set" when it comes to RB position.
Texan fans feel that you are slighting their RB's because of OL & run blocking scheme. The Titans OL is no chopped liver either as they lead league in pass pro, so they can control line of scrimmage to a high level as well. That's a push.
As a fan of RB's how can anyone in the league even compare to Arian Fosters skill set- production, athletic & big play ability, leadership/character, balance, power, ability to run after the catch, yards after contact, blocker, vision etc....
Chris Johnson was a phenomenal talent, but it's been two years since he flashed that explosive power & elusiveness. I remember him from scouting him during his college days @ ECU so familiar w/his "skill-set" last 6 years but he never, despite early production, looked like a durable, franchise RB on the road to Canton unlike Arian Foster.
There is a kid playing right now with the Oregon Ducks, named De'Anthony Thomas, closest thing I've seen since to CJ. Explosive speed, ability to cut-back on a dime & fearlessness to run between the tackles, yet nobody strikes me as the next AF.
Thanks Beerlover! I'll go further into explaining in the next video. Youtube's max time limit is what kills me from going even more in-depth..that and the fact that I have to film & edit all these vids.. But most definitely will explain more of how I came up with the personnel breakdown
EmDiggy
Waterboy
You've never had me as a responder to your posts but after this post I'll make sure not to respond to any more posts that you make about my posts
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Youtube's base limit for videos is 15 minutes, and you can make it much higher (10 hours I think), if you verify your account. Feel free to take all the time you need to explain how the Oline and Runningbacks are a push.
I also suggest that you add a check box for special teams. If there's one area that the Titans clearly have an advantage, it's special teams.
False Start
On # 69
EmDiggy
Waterboy
Yep its 15 mins..but I film in HD, so my videos push the limit of the GB space.. I think its 2GB. The videos where its strictly voiceovers I can go 15 mins.. but videos where I'm actually on camera I can mayyyyybe squeeze out 9:30.. I try to find an efficient & happy medium to maximize the amount of videos I can edit/upload in a day
Maybe if you define your opinion of "skill-set" when it comes to RB position.
Texan fans feel that you are slighting their RB's because of OL & run blocking scheme. The Titans OL is no chopped liver either as they lead league in pass pro, so they can control line of scrimmage to a high level as well. That's a push.
As a fan of RB's how can anyone in the league even compare to Arian Fosters skill set- production, athletic & big play ability, leadership/character, balance, power, ability to run after the catch, yards after contact, blocker, vision etc....
Chris Johnson was a phenomenal talent, but it's been two years since he flashed that explosive power & elusiveness. I remember him from scouting him during his college days @ ECU so familiar w/his "skill-set" last 6 years but he never, despite early production, looked like a durable, franchise RB on the road to Canton unlike Arian Foster.
There is a kid playing right now with the Oregon Ducks, named De'Anthony Thomas, closest thing I've seen since to CJ. Explosive speed, ability to cut-back on a dime & fearlessness to run between the tackles, yet nobody strikes me as the next AF.
For me it isn't that he is slighting anyone, it is that he just seems to be wrong. I went back and looked at a few of his videos and honestly, he doesn't seem to want to anger any fan bases. I can understand that position because he seems to give every team something to hang their hat on. It is as if we were playing the worst team in the league, rather than finding that they have a better lighting system in the stadium he will manufacture something to which he can point to and say "I don't hate you guys, I pointed out something you do well". The only reason I would watch somebody do something like that is if I think I can learn something. This is two weekends in a row that he has told us that our RB corps (who top to bottom is the BEST in the league) are on par with two struggling teams. He doesn't argue the numbers he argues some kind of "observation" that he claims to have made that we aren't capable of making because we haven't "been" what he has been. Hell, he doesn't even tell us what it is. "Skill set"? You mean that Johnson can use a circular saw better than Foster? If he had perhaps defined it as "quick to the hole" or "Quick in quick out" or "better patience", I might be able to go with it. Instead we get "better skill set". Really? Bush would work well in a zone system? No, he wouldn't. Johnson would do better? The only thing Johnson does well is get to the edge and then get up field. Now he doesn't get to the edge.
I've just figured out that there isn't much for me to learn from him. I can't trust what he says so I'm just going to stop visiting. Glad you make your videos, you have either the time or the motivation that I don't to make these videos. I respect you for putting the work in but I view your contribution to be negligible.
Mike
Many of us here in this forum have played highschool and college sports .... tho a few were back in the stone age , that doesnt change the fact that we have just as good an understanding - If not better due to much longer experiences - as he believes he does.
This dude doesnt do his homework with stats .... thats flat out being lazy IMO. Thats like building something without measuring - Measure twice , cut once.
He's just begging for clicks to generate income and not doing a very good job of it.
Can you imagine a legitimate analyst using those lame arguments and reasoning? They would get laughed off of TV. Good thing these are hidden on youtube.
Legitimate was a poor choice of wording. What I meant is a more recognizable analyst meaning one that is seen on tv. My opinion of his reasoning being lame still stands though.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
If he had the balls to produce it then he has to have the balls to take the attacks because of his silly comments
My thoughts exactly. Em has been coming here for a few years and has always been cordial in his approach. I don't agree with him that the Titans RB's and Texans RB's are a push by any stretch of the imagination, but it's no reason to get butt hurt about his analysis. Hell, out of all the video he has provided the Dolphins and Titans analysis from this year are the first two that I can remember anyone having issues of this magnitude. Plus he actually posts and interacts with the board as opposed to just linking his videos. Last time I checked no one is correct 100% of the time anyway. But I do think that further explanation is due when saying that the Texans RB's are equivalent to the Titans RB's, CJ401k is no where near the complete back that AF or Tate are.
I'm betting that comment is close to what the blowhards at the chronicle have said about our beautiful miss Stephanie.
Take on his points. Don't attack the man.
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Whats wrong with calling it how you see it ? When the truth is wrong .... Our world is too PC.
He isnt really analizing anything .... since he doesnt use stats. Whats he producing ? An opinion .... based upon what ?! The eyeball test ?!
Measure twice - Cut once.
He didnt do that until I called him on it .... but I give him credit for making the neccessary change there.
Maybe he'll do the same with the stats issue.
This.
I will say this about Skip Bayless. Skip will use stats and facts to back up his argument. The problem with him is he picks and chooses the stats he likes and ignores the rest when they're used against him. The fact that someone reputable would say "stats lie" in a debate is almost as laughable as it gets to me. Em may be a nice guy and I'm not saying anything personally against him, but I just can't take his opinion seriously.
When GM's go to evaluate players for the draft they won't just throw their numbers and production out of the window. It won't be their only source for evaluation, but they won't just dismiss it either. I'd love to hear a GM come out before the draft and say "stats lie". If that's the case every prospect who has ever had talent needs to come out and say, "Screw my stats Rick Smith! Look at my 40 time homie! I run a 4.3 in the 40 and a 4.0 in the shuttle. Check out the potential! You're worried about the wrong things. Who cares if I've never rushed for 50 yards in a a game or 700 yards in a season!"
Another thing..... if Em has any aspirations of advancing and taking his craft to the next level then criticism will follow. Is it always fair? No, but it comes with the territory. If I put out a product and want people to support it and it doesn't meet a certain standard then I will be criticized for it. No one has called him any derogatory names or called his mother fat or anything.
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Fred
Veteran
I have used the "skill set" technique to identify the greatest Houston players of all time.
Greatest Rocket Ever: Ralph Sampson (this is easy!)
Greatest Astro Ever: Eric Anthony
and
Greatest Texan Ever: (tie) David Carr and Tony Hollings
Texans have the best backfield since Hershel Walker & Tony Dorsett. How's that?
Clearrrrrrrrrrrrly I stated numerous times that I don't use stats when looking at personnel..Its more of a skill-set type of thing and showing where the liabilities are. And as a former RB, I know that numbers don't tell the whole story.
Here are backfields that were better than Walker + Dorsett:
Don Perkins + Walt Garrison
Calvin Hill + Walt Garrison
Calvin Hill + Duane Thomas
Duane Thomas + whatever stiff came after Calvin Hill
Tony Dorsett before Hershel Walker
Hershel Walker when Tony Dorsett wasn't in the way
Emmitt Smith
And that is only from one team - the same team that Walker + Dorsett played for.
Actually Schefter/Schein are more knowledgeable about football than you.
I am looking forward to your basketball videos where I am sure we will all learn that Kobe Bryant vs Kevin Martin is a "wash".
Jim Brown - averaged over 1 TD and over 100 yard per game for his entire career.
Emmitt Smith - (being nice and throwing out his time with the Cardinals) about 0.8 TDs and 90 yards per game.
I think stats support my contention that Jim Brown is the greatest RB in the history of the game.
I think Emmitt Smith is an interesting one. Not vs Jim Brown. But vs Barry Sanders. As a skills guy you probably think Sanders was better. As a person likes winning and winning championships I'll take Emmitt Smith.
You guys are being mean! Why bring logic and facts to the table when you can just throw out a blanket statement to support your side?...... Not fair at all!
I'm starting to like Em's logic a little. Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf were 2 of the greatest greatest QBs to ever play in the league. Lets ignore their stats and focus on their talent. Both guys had rocket arms and put the ball on the money. It might have been on the money to the other team, but it doesn't matter because "stats lie" so that is irrelevant. I think Em should be an agent to be honest with you. If he could sell that then he could stand to make a crap load of money.
I'm starting to like Em's logic a little. Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf were 2 of the greatest greatest QBs to ever play in the league. Lets ignore their stats and focus on their talent. Both guys had rocket arms and put the ball on the money. It might have been on the money to the other team, but it doesn't matter because "stats lie" so that is irrelevant. I think Em should be an agent to be honest with you. If he could sell that then he could stand to make a crap load of money.
Correct. Discussing the merits of Emory's opinions is fair game. Calling him a troll is not.
Yeah, they have. And it's uncalled for. Emory has been posting here for almost 3 years and his contribution is and has been welcome. Do I agree with everything he has said or written? No. But he's not a troll and he deserves the same consideration as any other poster on this board.
Gotcha, yeah I can understand the troll thing and even though I didn't address him as that I can see how that could be derogatory. Actually I'm still not quite sure what a troll is. I keep thinking of little people hiding under a bridge every time I hear that.
I've tried my best to simply address his point of view in this thread which I think is wack. Now I'm under the assumption that is well within the rules of this forum.
An internet troll comes onto a board with the intent to create conflict. We've had our share of trolls here. Some members here with over 10k posts will occasionally troll (IMO). Emory is not trolling. I believe that he believes what he is saying.
Totally, and that's a big part of why we're here. Who wants a big love fest? This board is best with a variety of well formed opinions. That's why I come here.
Understood on both points, and yeah I do agree that he really does believe what he is saying. (well kind of) It's kind of hard to wrap my mind around someone thinking that talent is a push in the Running Back department in this game. He had a better argument in the Miami game than this one, but Ringer better than or even with Tate? And then I don't even know who their 3rd running back is. Old Em's perspective has me seriously scratching my head.
I've even tried to get on his level in a sense in trying to understand what he's saying. I have a close friend who's a scout in the league so I know that when they discuss players they will talk about all kinds of things physically, attitude wise, etc before going into their stats and production. But at the end of the day if those other attributes don't translate into production then they will pass on them. So I get what he's trying to say somewhat, but his argument falls short at the end. I was in sales for years, and I knew a lot of guys who could role play their butts off and had everything I wish I had. But when they got into the field and the bullets were flying couldn't get it done. While the situations are different they are similar in a lot of ways. Production is supposed to matter in the real world. That includes football, baseball, and any other sport.
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Then spammer would fit better than troll. True, he does and has contributed here for 3 years, but only when pimping his product.
And as I said earlier, props to him for what he's got going. But with it comes criticism. If you don't want a big love fest here, why should you expect it for him? I don't care if he continues to post his stuff here or not. I don't have to check it out and I won't. IMO, he's not a very good analyst.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
^^^ Exactly this.
When he first started posting his videos (or when I first saw them, at least), I was a little surprised that no one jumped on this guy for being a spammer. Because that's what he is. He's not bad about it. But he's coming here asking for views and clicks. And he goes to a bunch of other boards for different teams for the same thing. He doesn't take part in the forum in any other way.
By definition, that's a spammer.
He's working hard trying to build himself up as a kind of alternative to NFL Playbook or something. And that's cool. You've got to start somewhere. And, spammer or not, I gave him my support. Every week, I watched his Texans video. I never felt compelled to watch any of his videos on the other teams because I never felt like I learned anything useful from watching his videos about the Texans.
To make his way in that field, he needs to start delivering something. He's either got to be more informative or more entertaining and right now, he's not bringing it.
And then this whole talent/skill set thing came up and he started using the "Numbers Always Lie" slogan and for me, he lost all credibility. So he's lost my support. I haven't watched any of his videos since the Dolphins video and I won't watch any more of his videos for the foreseeable future.
I think that is over the top. Yes, he only replies to posts in his threads. But, he doesn't just post links and leave. This is the only forum of any kind I am on. This takes up all of my time available for internet chat. Emory is on what, at least 32 forums? Maybe more? I think he probably posts here as much as anywhere.
BTW, I haven't given him a free pass on criticism. I let him know that his comparison of the Dolphins and Texans backfield was a crock. And admittedly, I haven't watched all of Emory's videos. Or most of them. I probably peeked at his draft videos more than anything. He has put together some pretty good clips on prospects I might have never seen.
So, IMO, I think Emory has brought some value to this board. I don't believe the terms troll or spammer fit. Is Lance Zierlein a spammer when he comes into the forum and posts his links? No, he is welcomed with open virtual arms. As he should be. And his opinions have not gone unchallenged.
Anyway, I applaud Emory's effort even if I don't agree with his analysis. I've learned some things from his contributions and maybe, just maybe, he has learned something from ours. That's the way it should be, right?