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Fire Frank Bush

Coaching is important and crucial to success. Then why do we insist on hiring guys like Bush with no track record or experience as DC? Oh yeah, he coached at Denver and is friends with Kubes. After all, that is all it takes to work for Gary.

God forbid we hire the most qualified candidate. Things better change and they better change fast or we are looking at 2005 all over again...and don't act like it can't happen.

I drank the KoolAid thinking that Bush was going to change things, but it looks like its status quo on the defense. After all, the scheme has worked so well for us the past 3 years...why not give it another 3 years to blossom.

After all that is the Texans way.

fwiw - thanks for all the support, I don't worry about the opinion of the homers around here because well they are homers, but I do appreciate the support I have gotten for being honest, objective, and non-homering.
 
Meh, I'm not willing to say "Fire Him" after two games, but I hope the leash is short.

I also hope he can get the guys to play the way he, Johnny Meads, Robert Lyles, Robert Abraham, Keith Bostic and Childress, etc. played (albeit in a 3-4).
 
Texan_Bill said:
Meh, I'm not willing to say "Fire Him" after two games, but I hope the leash is short.

I also hope he can get the guys to play the way he, Johnny Meads, Robert Lyles, Robert Abraham, Keith Bostic and Childress, etc. played (albeit in a 3-4).
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that's what i am saying, TB. fire him is just to get the conversation going and to light a fire...no coach deserves to be fired after 2 preseason games...but if one deserved to not be hired it would be FB.

i just didnt and still don't think he should have been hired to begin with and I challenge anyone to give me one truly valid reason that he should have been hired other than 1) coached with Denver 2) friends with Gary.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
that's what i am saying, TB. fire him is just to get the conversation going and to light a fire...no coach deserves to be fired after 2 preseason games...but if one deserved to not be hired it would be FB.

i just didnt and still don't think he should have been hired to begin with and I challenge anyone to give me one truly valid reason that he should have been hired other than 1) coached with Denver 2) friends with Gary.
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As for opening up the conversation, I'm all for that. It (or his hiring and/or performance) should be discussed.

As far as the hiring, I have mixed emotions. One hand, I think the Texans jumped the gun and could've interviewed a couple other guys. OTOH, every defensive coordinator in the league, had to have his first shot, somewhere. If he coaches like he played and was coached, this defensive will be a secondary short of being good.

I say give him his shot, but keep tight reigns on him - because we can not afford a nother Dick Smith type of performance from this defense. Saturday night was inexusable. With regard to coaching nepitism, meh that happens everywhere.
 
Texans Kubiak demands defensive upgrade
HOUSTON — It is a good thing the first roster reduction to 75 is not until next week, or the Texans might consider cutting the defense after its performance in Saturday night's 38-14 loss to New Orleans.

Fortunately for the players, especially those competing for starting jobs as well as places on the roster, they have a chance to redeem themselves on Monday Night Football next week against the Minnesota Vikings.

One day later, the abysmal performance against the Saints didn't look any better to the coaches.

“I was disappointed in our overall effort,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “New Orleans was much more physical than we were in all three phases. That was disappointing for me.”

The Saints were first in offense last season, but they were a passing team that relied heavily on quarterback Drew Brees. If the Saints could run for 173 yards and a 6.4-yard average per carry behind Mike Bell (10 carries, 100 yards), imagine what Minnesota is capable of doing.

The Vikings have been a run-oriented team featuring running backs Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor combining with a run defense that has ranked first in each of the last two seasons.

Now the Vikings have new quarterbacks in Brett Favre and Sage Rosenfels, the former Texan who was traded to Minnesota for a fourth-round draft choice in March.

“We took a step back,” Kubiak said. “I hate to say that because preseason is about stepping forward. Now we've got to rebound against, to me, one of the best teams in the league. I'm looking forward to getting back on the field and seeing how our players respond.”
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http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/nfl/Kubiak_demands_defensive_upgrade.html
 
Move to Dallas we don't need you any more


Second Honeymoon said:
Just thought I would go ahead and get this thread started. The defense was the same ole same ole, no heart, and no deception or aggressiveness.

If our defense plays even half as bad as they did last night, we will be lucky to win 6 games. Very lucky.

And don't give me that BS that its only preseason. Last time I heard that garbage, we were pathetic in preseason and we carried that into the season going a miserable 2-14. Last night was a bad omen.

Everyone had to realize that hiring from within was a stupid and ignorant move. The fact that they didn't even interview anyone worth a crap, tells you all you need to know. Bush is Kubiak's friend and Kubes wants to hire his friends or Denver cronies...and we know how good that Denver defense has been....

FIRE FRANK BUSH (yes I am the first and I wont be the last)
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Wolf said:
must.....resist....link... must ...resi.......



sadly my first thought is that Justice probably loved what happened .. He seems to bash no matter what and this gives him some fuel for the fire.


I have nothing more to add except I will use the smiliey to pole vault over the link :polevault: :whip:
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................................what? :um:idonno:
 
it was a bad joke

I saw it was a justice link.. and I told myself I would skip his blogs.. he comes up with some wild stuff in the comments that almost ....ALMOST... makes me want to reply to him .


(his comments are just head shaking to me )
 
Wolf said:
it was a bad joke

I saw it was a justice link.. and I told myself I would skip his blogs.. he comes up with some wild stuff in the comments that almost ....ALMOST... makes me want to reply to him .


(his comments are just head shaking to me )
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Well you know there is no new like bad news
 
I just dont really understand why there is this level of fuss over FB right now. From what I saw on Sat, it was more we were getting beaten straight up...man to man. That is more personnel and position coaches. Is anyone not confident in Kollar? You are not going to see much of anything other than a base D right now. So the real concern will come for me if at all after I have at least had the chance to see his real playbook open up.
 
Tailgate said:
I just dont really understand why there is this level of fuss over FB right now. From what I saw on Sat, it was more we were getting beaten straight up...man to man. That is more personnel and position coaches. Is anyone not confident in Kollar? You are not going to see much of anything other than a base D right now. So the real concern will come for me if at all after I have at least had the chance to see his real playbook open up.
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you forgot 'we didn't show all our blitz packages' and 'we played it pretty close to the vest'
 
Second Honeymoon said:
you forgot 'we didn't show all our blitz packages' and 'we played it pretty close to the vest'
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I'm somewhat comforted by the level of surprise and disappointment coming from the players and coaches. 2005, if you recall, it was as if the organization was willing to lose royally. I don't see that kind of quit, lack of talent, attitude, or anything else from this group.

That being said, I'm very concerned about our DTs, particularly Okoye, and I will throw a gasket if he looks outmatched again on Monday but remains in the starting lineup on week one.
 
Tailgate said:
I just dont really understand why there is this level of fuss over FB right now. From what I saw on Sat, it was more we were getting beaten straight up...man to man. That is more personnel and position coaches. Is anyone not confident in Kollar? You are not going to see much of anything other than a base D right now. So the real concern will come for me if at all after I have at least had the chance to see his real playbook open up.
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what level of fuss is there really? A few folks posting a few critical comments? This thread title is tongue in cheek, the team played horribly Saturday and we are here to react to the game...good games, bad games, it doesn't matter - NFL fans are gonna be emotional and reactionary about their franchises. It's the same way all across the NFL.
 
Since all decisions ultimately boil down to the owner, let's fire McNair. Maybe Bud Adams can afford 2 NFL teams. Remember those days? Houston has the craziest fans. I'm proud to be one of them.
 
It's just preseason...we didn't even show that much blitzes, it was mostly base defense...Even Captain 'Meco said it at the launcheon. Just wait 'till Game 1 against the Jets, we're going to MURDER them with our true defensive plays.
 
BorrowMe said:
It's just preseason...we didn't even show that much blitzes, it was mostly base defense...Even Captain 'Meco said it at the launcheon. Just wait 'till Game 1 against the Jets, we're going to MURDER them with our true defensive plays.
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Who spiked the kool-ade?
 
Vinny said:
what level of fuss is there really? A few folks posting a few critical comments? This thread title is tongue in cheek, the team played horribly Saturday and we are here to react to the game...good games, bad games, it doesn't matter - NFL fans are gonna be emotional and reactionary about their franchises. It's the same way all across the NFL.
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The thread title maybe tongue-n-cheek now but knowing the started all to well and his ability to go off the deep easily it was not intended like that when it was started.

Their was already 3 threads in which the game could be discussed. So why another worded as such? Reactionary? Don't you mean over-reaction?
 
DocBar said:
Since all decisions ultimately boil down to the owner, let's fire McNair. Maybe Bud Adams can afford 2 NFL teams. Remember those days? Houston has the craziest fans. I'm proud to be one of them.
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Count me in this group

I'm proud to be one of the crazies too
 
Specnatz said:
The thread title maybe tongue-n-cheek now but knowing the started all to well and his ability to go off the deep easily it was not intended like that when it was started.

Their was already 3 threads in which the game could be discussed. So why another worded as such? Reactionary? Don't you mean over-reaction?
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I think the server can handle three negative threads, there are a lot of good conversations in other threads. It's not the end of the world and it's just what you find on most football forums....a few guys taking a cartoon stance. It's just part of the program if you are gonna play on a mb methinks. Nobody makes us clicky the crazy overemotional threads, but we do...it's like rubbernecking - everyone beaches about it, but everyone does it.
 
Vinny said:
I think the server can handle three negative threads, there are a lot of good conversations in other threads. It's not the end of the world and it's just what you find on most football forums....a few guys taking a cartoon stance. It's just part of the program if you are gonna play on a mb methinks. Nobody makes us clicky the crazy overemotional threads, but we do...it's like rubbernecking - everyone beaches about it, but everyone does it.
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Just hard to keep my football buzz going around here...and the season hasnt even started yet. But yes, I click it to myself.
 
Vinny said:
yep, The league operates at 55 mph but the Texans operate at 35 mph on the feeder road of the NFL. This team is slow to make decisions and they tend to take chances with too many unproven commodities in experiments that take years to unwind. It's like extending Carr when you had an escape clause. You built that in to protect yourself....but when it comes time to dump damaged goods, you extend it because he's such a nice guy and you set your franchise back for a couple of more years.
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Nail meet hammer. Once again Vinny you hit a bullseye. The Texans are WAY too slow in making changes. Richard Smith should have been fired after his FIRST YEAR. That joker would not have lasted more than 1 year much less the 3 years with his pathetic defense if he worked for one of the top organizations in the NFL such as the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, Giants, Colts, etc.

Don't get me started on picking up David Carr's option. He would have been ridden out on a rail mercilessly in any other NFL city YEARS before we finally got rid of him.

My mindset this year is Playoffs or Bust. The Texans better share that same mindset because it is close to TWENTY YEARS now that this city has had an NFL team play a frigging PLAYOFF GAME! I don't know if I can take another year of mediocrity.

I am trying to stay positive because I believe this team can make some noise but Saturday was bitterly disappointing. Amobi and our defensive line whom we have invested more money and top picks than virtually any other team getting carved up like Swiss cheese is a huge downer and is deflating.

If we see the same crap Monday, then I'll press the panic button. All I know is I want to see some nastiness out of our D against the Vikings in order to restore some pride and for payback for that SOB Jared Allen cheapshotting and kneecapping Schaub. That team is physical on both lines and will be a very good test.

What kills me is that the Texans defense looks like pure amateur hour when I watch teams like the Ravens, Steelers and Eagles drive offenses crazy with all the pressure they bring from every angle. Our defensive scheme looks like a middle school scheme compared to these guys. I would have killed for a Jim Johnson protege coach up our soft defense.
 
The defense had a horrible game the secondary stinks and we need daunte if he is going to be here now and If not let's some real cornerbacks on the roster.
 
This is not Frank Bush first season with the Texans but its his first in charge defensively. The 09 draft was dedicated to players he signed off on & so far its very promising.

I beleive its all about personel. You need players to either elevate, develop or transcend the speed of the NFL as Vinny alludes to, so its talent stupid, Texans being short of quality & depth. Injurys early on & counting on rookies costs you early season losses, as they return to health & younger players develop everthing seems alright again.

This is why pre-season is important, you practice like you play. You watch players compete individual battles, see if they get the scheme & can execute the game plan, constant improvement & effort. Lets wait to see if Bush can push the right buttons while talent level increases before we just sign off "Fire Frank Bush".

no thanks, count me out of that one :ant:
 
If it's the "same old scheme" again, then why are we calling out players names? :thinking:
 
Specnatz said:
The thread title maybe tongue-n-cheek now but knowing the started all to well and his ability to go off the deep easily it was not intended like that when it was started.

Their was already 3 threads in which the game could be discussed. So why another worded as such? Reactionary? Don't you mean over-reaction?
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it was tongue in cheek from teh beginning and anyone with a pulse knows that. its called stirring the pot.

would i be happy if we had a new DC tomorrow? yes, but i am not advocating firing a guy after 2 preseason games....

this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
it was tongue in cheek from teh beginning and anyone with a pulse knows that. its called stirring the pot.

would i be happy if we had a new DC tomorrow? yes, but i am not advocating firing a guy after 2 preseason games....

this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.
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I agree with you this was a poor hire but let's give him time to see how the defense will turn out.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
it was tongue in cheek from teh beginning and anyone with a pulse knows that. its called stirring the pot.

would i be happy if we had a new DC tomorrow? yes, but i am not advocating firing a guy after 2 preseason games....

this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.
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correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you sporting a "FIRE KUBIAK" line in your sig after season 1? I guess that was just stirring the pot too?
 
Second Honeymoon said:
this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.
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I'm sure Giants fans were saying the same thing after they hired Steve Spagnuolo(who had no experience as a DC either), that was until his defense shut down the pats in the SB . Every great DC had to start somewhere, and obviously Kubiak thought Bush was qualified and the best guy available, or else he wouldn't have hired him. Do you really think Kubiak doesn't know that his job most likely hinges on this descision?
 
Second Honeymoon said:
it was tongue in cheek from teh beginning and anyone with a pulse knows that. its called stirring the pot.

would i be happy if we had a new DC tomorrow? yes, but i am not advocating firing a guy after 2 preseason games....

this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.
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So, if the defense plays well, then it's just a joke. But, if they struggle, then you were the first to predict it and will flood the board with "I told you so".

Classic!
 
dalemurphy said:
So, if the defense plays well, then it's just a joke. But, if they struggle, then you were the first to predict it and will flood the board with "I told you so".

Classic!
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coaches are hired to be fired.. the prediction will come , in time
:pirate::splits:
 
TEXANRED said:
a lot of doom and gloom posts the past day and a half and so I had to make adjustments LOL
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Well, it may be preseason for the players but its nice to see the Texan fans in mid season form.
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I disagree that the fans are in midseason form. If they were, when the Texans look so bad I'd be reading posts spun that it's gut check time. That gut check would result in upping the season prediction from 10-6 to 12-4.

:)
 
dalemurphy said:
So, if the defense plays well, then it's just a joke. But, if they struggle, then you were the first to predict it and will flood the board with "I told you so".

Classic!
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its not a joke. would you have preferred 'Frank Bush was a bad hire' or 'Kubiak hires another unqualified Broncos coach' or 'Frank Bush = Richard Smith' as for me saying 'i told you so', i stated that Bush was a bad hire the day he was hired and I stand by that.

Does that mean he was a bad hire? we won't know until we see actual meaningful games but the fact that he was assistant to the pisspoor defenses we have had the last few years doesnt make me feel good and the fact the he is running the same scheme doesnt make me feel good either. honestly, the fact that some of you disagree with me makes me feel pretty secure because its hard for some of you to be even marginally objective.

some of you guys are such homers that any criticism of the team and its coaches gets your panties all in a wad

its kinda funny. i hope i am wrong about Bush but he smells like a cheap hire of another Broncos coach who hasn't done squat

oh, and Spags hiring as a DC came after he had actual success as an assistant. Bush has not. The guy was partially responsible for the last few years defense and if you say he is not, then you are kidding yourself. He had done nothing to merit and the fact that no one else wanted to even interview him for a job should tell you all you need to know....but some will be ignorant and act like the guy is somehow destined for greatness.

i think the guy is destined for the unemployment line because he is not qualified...and Gary might be right behind him due to his inability to attract even a halfway qualified defensive coordinator...but whatever, Gary is beyond reproach and Bush is a god amongst DCs.

just try and mix in some objectivity and lose the homering if you are going to actually try and formulate a honest opinion
 
ReliantTexan said:
I'm sure Giants fans were saying the same thing after they hired Steve Spagnuolo(who had no experience as a DC either), that was until his defense shut down the pats in the SB . Every great DC had to start somewhere, and obviously Kubiak thought Bush was qualified and the best guy available, or else he wouldn't have hired him. Do you really think Kubiak doesn't know that his job most likely hinges on this descision?
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great opinion and a good angle. however for every Spag success story there are a myriad of failures.

i do appreciate the objectivity and reason you displayed though. Kubiak could very well get some criticism for the hiring. i think if he keeps the offense progressing he may get a mulligan on this one though. Kubiak has done a good job with the offense he just might be forced to look outside hte Denver circle for the next DC.
 
TexansFight said:
Nail meet hammer. Once again Vinny you hit a bullseye. The Texans are WAY too slow in making changes. Richard Smith should have been fired after his FIRST YEAR. That joker would not have lasted more than 1 year much less the 3 years with his pathetic defense if he worked for one of the top organizations in the NFL such as the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, Giants, Colts, etc.
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Even if you gave him Jason Babin, Travis Johnson, Seth Payne, Morlon Greenwood, Shantee Orr Glen Earl, CC Brown & Phillip Buchanon as your starters?

Only one name from that group is still on the team.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
oh, and Spags hiring as a DC came after he had actual success as an assistant. Bush has not. The guy was partially responsible for the last few years defense and if you say he is not, then you are kidding yourself. He had done nothing to merit and the fact that no one else wanted to even interview him for a job should tell you all you need to know....but some will be ignorant and act like the guy is somehow destined for greatness.
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Bush joined the Texans at the end of 2007. Kubiak initially wanted Bush to be DC, but he couldn't get out of his contract with Arizona, so Richard Smith was the next choice.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
....but the fact that he was assistant to the pisspoor defenses we have had the last few years doesnt make me feel good and the fact the he is running the same scheme doesnt make me feel good either. honestly, the fact that some of you disagree with me makes me feel pretty secure because its hard for some of you to be even marginally objective.
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If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you. Not the firing Frank Bush, but the hiring didn't make sense, when there were "beter" qualified people out there.

Maybe Kubiak knows he can't work with Greg Williams? Maybe he doesn't want another "former head coach" second guessing him? Maybe he doesn't agree with Greg Williams' ethics, or the way he treats the players.. I don't know, & I'll never know. But knowing what I do know, it doesn't make sense he wasn't brought in for a look-see.

Hiring Frank Bush... IMHO, the decision to fire Richard Smith should have been made mid November. From then on, Bush should have been "trying out" for the job. Richard Smith should have been DC in name only, and FB should have been running the show. Did Kubiak see something in those last 4 games to confirm Bush was the man for the job? Did the player morale take a huge jump up? Did he see progress? I can't imagine. It's possible, but I just don't know.

I like the Kollar & Gibbs hire. I've always liked the Ray Rhodes hire.... would have liked to have seen him as the DC. But I think we're putting together a nice coaching staff....

But still I question the Frank Bush "promotion"
 
thunderkyss said:
If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you. Not the firing Frank Bush, but the hiring didn't make sense, when there were "beter" qualified people out there.

Maybe Kubiak knows he can't work with Greg Williams? Maybe he doesn't want another "former head coach" second guessing him? Maybe he doesn't agree with Greg Williams' ethics, or the way he treats the players.. I don't know, & I'll never know. But knowing what I do know, it doesn't make sense he wasn't brought in for a look-see.

Hiring Frank Bush... IMHO, the decision to fire Richard Smith should have been made mid November. From then on, Bush should have been "trying out" for the job. Richard Smith should have been DC in name only, and FB should have been running the show. Did Kubiak see something in those last 4 games to confirm Bush was the man for the job? Did the player morale take a huge jump up? Did he see progress? I can't imagine. It's possible, but I just don't know.

I like the Kollar & Gibbs hire. I've always liked the Ray Rhodes hire.... would have liked to have seen him as the DC. But I think we're putting together a nice coaching staff....

But still I question the Frank Bush "promotion"
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I have a question:
If we got dogged at the DL level and the DB level, why isn't some of this "disappointment" aimed at Coaches Kollar and Little Gibbs?? I understand the "buck stops at the top" mindset, but why not start at the places where the problem seems to be. Isn't that like cursing the whole car because you have a flat tire? Shouldn't we be cursing the tire?
 
ObsiWan said:
I have a question:
If we got dogged at the DL level and the DB level, why isn't some of this "disappointment" aimed at Coaches Kollar and Little Gibbs?? I understand the "buck stops at the top" mindset, but why not start at the places where the problem seems to be. Isn't that like cursing the whole car because you have a flat tire? Shouldn't we be cursing the tire?
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I'm not cursing anybody.... not even Frank Bush. I'm just saying I can understand the "confusion" around the Frank Bush promotion.
 
Coaching is just so important, you really should spare no expense and leave no stone unturned when assembling a coaching staff. I am all for giving guys chances but wasn't his chance the last two years as a top defensive coach? What did he show during that time to merit a promotion? *crickets*

I know that some of our personnel is questionable as starters but thats how it is for 75% of the league. You have weaknesses in today's salary cap era. It's how your coaches hide your weaknesses and how your coaches exploit the other team's weaknesses. If your secondary sucks, you have to blitz and disguise coverages. You don't sit back in a zone and send 4 against the QB. Not in this league. If you still can't get pressure with the blitz then its time to find another scheme that works, and possibly another coach to run it.

Maybe the team can rally around the horrible embarassing performance. I would love to see it. These players aren't that bad. They just don't seem to be that fired up and focused on dominating the line of scrimmage. Where is the hunger and the heart? People can say the money they make should be enough motivation but its not that simple. You have to challenge players. You have to understand what they do will and exploit that. If a player isn't getting the job done, you have to have the balls to bench him (Okoye comes to mind) You can't worry about how much they are making or where they were drafted. We need players with heart and passion.

The best thing the Texans could have done this offseason was to back up the Brinks truck to Ray Lewis' miami estate and hand him a blank check to come bring some heart, passion, and dedication to this defense of ours. It probably wouldn't have worked but that is the type of player we need. I am not sure if Mario is wired that way but I think DeMeco and/or Cushing could help bring more of that desire. I sure hope Cushing can stay healthy, the kid plays and trains hard..thats for sure.
 
Personally, I would have rather had Gregg Williams. But I'm not sure he was available when we were shopping around. In fact, I don't recall who at other guys even got an interview; some of you guys with better memories probably recall the timeline and applicants.

I'm not totally sure that Kubiak ever gave anyone besides Frank a real shot at that job.
 
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