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Duke Johnson vs Carlos Hyde for primary carrier?

badboy

Hall of Fame
Purpose of my thread is to get input on utilizing Duke more than Hyde or a Hyde type RB if he doesn't return next season. I do not care about whether he will be back rather just his type of runner. Age and contract numbers are not important for my question rather production IE stats and actions on field such as blocking for QB and being a safety valve and ability to get down field as a receiver offering more complete package.

2019 stats only:

Duke Johnson 5'9" 207 lbs 16 games 48.5% offensive snaps 83/410 at 4.9 per & 2 TDs with receiving 44/410 @ 9.3 and 3 TDs * fewer snaps his avg rushing decreases greatly over the season.

Carlos Hyde 6' 230 16 starts 245/1,070 @ 4.4 6 TDs 10/42 catches @4.2.

His last seven games including Bills for the most part has been terrible; Denver was good at 5.21 next at Tennessee was 26/104 @ 4.0 and a 4.19 vs Colts; the rest were 3.0 and 3.25 and 1.7 and 1.59.

I think I would rather have Johnson getting majority of snaps particularly when we go empty backfield so much. Can he hold up to greater workload?

Question one..do you agree? Question two should we eliminate a Hyde type and go with another Duke Johnson type to alternate with Duke? I'm not sure if Duke can offer 245 carries but could we be as productive with two RBs splitting 245ish? Also take into account the receiving advantage.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
I don't really know what type of runner Duke is, or whether he can even handle the bulk of the carries as the primary back or not. What I do know is that he has been a very good pass catcher in his career and the Texans just seem to refuse to use him that way. Career lows in targets, catches and yards for Duke this season, and never has he had more yards rushing than yards receiving. This year he had exactly 410 yards at both, and of course, a career high in rushing yards.

I also know that Hyde is a JAG. I mean he's 6 years into this now and this is the 1st time he's cracked 1,000. And he's been about as inconsistent as you can get. In his last 2 full games he's averaging 2.2 YPC. 4.4 two games before that. Then 17 yards on 10 carries before that, and so on. If I'm GM I probably don't bring Hyde back. There's better than Hyde out there.

The problem though is this coaching staff misusing the talent they have. Even with Lamar Miller, they go get this speedy back and they negate that speed by ramming him up the middle when he gets here. If they want to smash it up the middle then go get a back built for that. Don't go get speed and take the use of that speed away.

Same with Duke. Duke is a huge asset in the pass game. You can easily create mismatches with him, but this coaching staff just doesn't do it. I just don't understand WTF they're doing down there on Kirby.
 
We could never have afforded him, even if he was willing to come here, but a Bell like RB is what best fits OBs scheme. Since Bell is off the table Hyde is the next best thing for us. There is a reason why he has been the best RB we have had in 6 years and it’s not because he is so much more talented it’s because he is build for the role he is put in.

On paper you’re right a RB like Johnson who is both a running and pass threat is better particularly with Watson at QB. Trouble is on paper doesn’t translate into how RB plays are designed and called.

OB is always going to use RBs as battering rams, I don’t know why and I rarely agree with it but if it is what it is then let’s get RBs that can be battering rams. Sort of if you can’t beat’em, join’em mindset. I mean it’s ok so far so it’s not as bad as say KC who can’t run to save their life, it’s just not utilizing all our weapons and possibly leaving yards and points on the field.
 

EllisUnit

Trump 2020
I have always been impressed when D Johnson runs the ball, IMO he has better vision and can cut better than Hyde. I wouldn't mind making Duke the primary back for a season to see what the kid can do, plus he is a double threat which keeps defenses honest.
 

RGV82

Random guy
I already started a thread on the Running Back situation for next year in case you want to view more opinions, but to answer your question I truly believe that we are going to be drafting a RB in the mid-later rounds of this years draft. There are a ton of power backs in the draft this year that we could easily target in rounds 4-6 which would be a good compliment to Duke Johnson. If it were up to me, I would bring back Hyde, Duke and a draft pick and let them fight it out in training camp.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I would want to keep both, but I want Duke to be more involved... not just a 3rd down back. I still want Hyde to be the primary ball carrier, he has the body type to take on that type of load. Duke gains 6.5 yards every time he touches the ball, he should touch it more.

I also want to see some screen plays called for Duke, and I'd like to see this offense be able to execute a screen.

OK, I guess I'm asking for too much.
 
I would want to keep both, but I want Duke to be more involved... not just a 3rd down back. I still want Hyde to be the primary ball carrier, he has the body type to take on that type of load. Duke gains 6.5 yards every time he touches the ball, he should touch it more.

I also want to see some screen plays called for Duke, and I'd like to see this offense be able to execute a screen.

OK, I guess I'm asking for too much.
You fail to see the genius of OB's plan. Its because he touches it so rarely that he gets those yards because teams know we don't pass to RBs. Just like how our TE's are doing well because everyone knows Texans use TE's just to fill a draft slot and roster spot but never actually pass to them. So 6 years BoB has slowly been luring all other teams into a false sense of security in thinking we won't pass to a RB or TE. Now for 5-6 plays this season we will see the fruits of those labors.

The next long term plan is to keep Watson as a pocket passer so that in 2027 we can run a play against a below .500 team, most likely the Browns, that they never see coming where Watson scrambles from the pocket and throws for a TD and it was actually planned rather than just Watson not realizing BoB's genius. Then of course we can never use that play again because they will see it coming. The man truly is playing 5D chess.

:kitten:
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Getting Duke more involved means that 1 of Stills, Fells or Hyde is coming off the field. And as good as he's been, those other guys bring more to the table from a non-statistical perspective. I like Duke, i just think people on here look at his stats and say "more is better" when i don't think that to be the case.

Look no further than our starting RB who go hurt in preseason, Lamar Miller. Looking at his stats & measureables coming from MIA the thought was MIA was underusing him & if given the opportunity to be the guy, he could be so much more. Well, as we've seen, his numbers since he's been here have pretty much been exactly what they were in MIA despite an average increase in carries & targets here from his time in MIA. Some guys are just best utilized as adjuncts than as feature guys.

Duke is best utilized how he is being used...which is in doses and as an x-factor & a guy most defenses forget about after they've been hurt by DW4, Nuk, Fuller, Stills and Fells in the passing game & the contrast of Hyde's bruising running nature. I think the only thing that really needs to happen with him is picking the spots better that we utilize him in the passing game...Which is in that area just inside the red zone 20 to the 5 yd line. That's where the bulk of his looks should come.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Getting Duke more involved means that 1 of Stills, Fells or Hyde is coming off the field. And as good as he's been, those other guys bring more to the table from a non-statistical perspective. I like Duke, i just think people on here look at his stats and say "more is better" when i don't think that to be the case.

Look no further than our starting RB who go hurt in preseason, Lamar Miller. Looking at his stats & measureables coming from MIA the thought was MIA was underusing him & if given the opportunity to be the guy, he could be so much more. Well, as we've seen, his numbers since he's been here have pretty much been exactly what they were in MIA despite an average increase in carries & targets here from his time in MIA. Some guys are just best utilized as adjuncts than as feature guys.

Duke is best utilized how he is being used...which is in doses and as an x-factor & a guy most defenses forget about after they've been hurt by DW4, Nuk, Fuller, Stills and Fells in the passing game & the contrast of Hyde's bruising running nature. I think the only thing that really needs to happen with him is picking the spots better that we utilize him in the passing game...Which is in that area just inside the red zone 20 to the 5 yd line. That's where the bulk of his looks should come.
We've had this discussion before, so don't want to rehash old stuff. I agree that I don't want Duke to be the primary running back on this team, but at the same time, I think he's under utilized. Especially in the Buffalo game. You disagree, so we'll probably just leave it at that.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Duke is best utilized how he is being used...which is in doses and as an x-factor & a guy most defenses forget about after they've been hurt by DW4, Nuk, Fuller, Stills and Fells in the passing game & the contrast of Hyde's bruising running nature. I think the only thing that really needs to happen with him is picking the spots better that we utilize him in the passing game.Which is in that area just inside the red zone 20 to the 5 yd line. That's where the bulk of his looks should come.
Duke is not built to take on the role of a 3 down back OR a full-time 2 down back.............he will not make it through half a season that way..........let alone a full season. Some other player will then often be pulled to stay behind to pass block..........or be require to be used as an adjunct run blocker such as an HB/FB. Power RBs are necessary for more than short yardage situations.............they are needed in the run game to keep defenses back on their heels and honest.
 
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Getting Duke more involved means that 1 of Stills, Fells or Hyde is coming off the field. And as good as he's been, those other guys bring more to the table from a non-statistical perspective. I like Duke, i just think people on here look at his stats and say "more is better" when i don't think that to be the case.

Look no further than our starting RB who go hurt in preseason, Lamar Miller. Looking at his stats & measureables coming from MIA the thought was MIA was underusing him & if given the opportunity to be the guy, he could be so much more. Well, as we've seen, his numbers since he's been here have pretty much been exactly what they were in MIA despite an average increase in carries & targets here from his time in MIA. Some guys are just best utilized as adjuncts than as feature guys.

Duke is best utilized how he is being used...which is in doses and as an x-factor & a guy most defenses forget about after they've been hurt by DW4, Nuk, Fuller, Stills and Fells in the passing game & the contrast of Hyde's bruising running nature. I think the only thing that really needs to happen with him is picking the spots better that we utilize him in the passing game...Which is in that area just inside the red zone 20 to the 5 yd line. That's where the bulk of his looks should come.
Agreed, Duke is best used when in the red zone or you just need 3-5 yards for a 1st. To me I would pretty much forget that RB role and treat him like a short game WR. He's easy for defenses to forget about because you have Hopkins as the guy you have to either double or have a shut down CB to have any chance of stopping him and Fuller and Stills as deep threats. That being said I don't think he is getting enough targets but whether that is the called play or Watson not seeing him or him just not being able to get open I can't say.
 

powda

Baby can you dig your man?
If we get a lead and are determined to burn clock on long drives, hyde will be it.

If we cant protect Watson from the kc pass rush, hyde will be it.

If we fall behind, Duke needs to be in. He creates mismatches in coverage and is far more explosive in the open field.

(Not that I trust ob to get him in space ,but we might get lucky.)
 

Seegara

Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
Team must keep them both. Hyde excels as a hard nosed runner while Johnson is a capable runner and fine receiver. Johnson seems to be the better pass blocker.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans!!!
I don't really know what type of runner Duke is, or whether he can even handle the bulk of the carries as the primary back or not. What I do know is that he has been a very good pass catcher in his career and the Texans just seem to refuse to use him that way. Career lows in targets, catches and yards for Duke this season, and never has he had more yards rushing than yards receiving. This year he had exactly 410 yards at both, and of course, a career high in rushing yards.

I also know that Hyde is a JAG. I mean he's 6 years into this now and this is the 1st time he's cracked 1,000. And he's been about as inconsistent as you can get. In his last 2 full games he's averaging 2.2 YPC. 4.4 two games before that. Then 17 yards on 10 carries before that, and so on. If I'm GM I probably don't bring Hyde back. There's better than Hyde out there.

The problem though is this coaching staff misusing the talent they have. Even with Lamar Miller, they go get this speedy back and they negate that speed by ramming him up the middle when he gets here. If they want to smash it up the middle then go get a back built for that. Don't go get speed and take the use of that speed away.

Same with Duke. Duke is a huge asset in the pass game. You can easily create mismatches with him, but this coaching staff just doesn't do it. I just don't understand WTF they're doing down there on Kirby.
My question......if Hyde had this much production behind a suspect OL for an entire season and playing in OB's complicated offense imagine what he might do in his second season and running behind an upgraded OL?

I think the OL gets better the moment Howard returns to RT. The OL gets better when Tunsil, Scharping, Martin and Howard have their second season together. I'm going to hold out hope that OB and the Texans realize Fulton is not the answer at RG and make a move this coming off-season to find an upgrade via FA or the draft. My preference would be to sign a solid veteran like Brandon Scherff who could come in and be an instant upgrade and OL solidifier. Tunsil and Scherff are Pro Bowl offensive linemen, Howard and Scharping could take a big step forward in their development next season, and Martin would be a massive benefactor of having Scharping on his right side.
 

RGV82

Random guy
Team must keep them both. Hyde excels as a hard nosed runner while Johnson is a capable runner and fine receiver. Johnson seems to be the better pass blocker.
One of these 2 jobs is going to be addressed in the later rounds of the draft. My guess is that either Hyde or Duke will be gone next year and replaced by a draft pick.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Agreed, Duke is best used when in the red zone or you just need 3-5 yards for a 1st. To me I would pretty much forget that RB role and treat him like a short game WR. He's easy for defenses to forget about because you have Hopkins as the guy you have to either double or have a shut down CB to have any chance of stopping him and Fuller and Stills as deep threats. That being said I don't think he is getting enough targets but whether that is the called play or Watson not seeing him or him just not being able to get open I can't say.
Man, DW4 has some weapons to use
 

Porky

Hall of Fame
Duke is most definitely not a bell cow. Between those two - it's not close. I do think they could use Duke better - but he's not a 3 down back.

I do think Hyde could be improved upon.
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
Hyde is the kind of back you need when it's 4th down and you have about a foot to go. Wait, that's wrong, you have to kick the field goal. My bad.
 


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