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Drafting a QB
- Thread starter Blake
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
True but he is an ERFA so if the Texans want him he's theirs for a qualifying offer.
I think Jameis Winston is the most pro ready QB in this draft. A close second would be Garrett Grayson. But I also like Hundley.
If I could get Hundley or Grayson in the second.. mid second I think we'd be good. OB still isn't "married" to him as it's a mid second.
But I like Tom Savage better than both those guys.... or at least as well.
If we can't sign Mallett, I'm good with Fitz/Keenum & Savage. Even if Savage starts from week 1. I don't care if he does or doesn't, but he needs to get plenty of game time so OB can decide what he wants to do QB wise for the 2016 draft.
By the end of the 2016 draft, I expect OB to be married to a QB. I'll be disappointed if we don't have our QB by then.
PapaL
Loose Screw
With one minor tweak, that's my stance. Unless it's Winston, I'm not interested in any QB this year. I'd rather fix other problem areas and not reach on a QB.
I wouldn't think Hundley or Grayson in the middle of the second round to be a reach.
Why did Mallett leave us? What it something we said?
He hates polls. We have too many polls.
...or that's the word on the street.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He hates polls. We have too many polls.
...or that's the word on the street.
and czechs.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
If the Texans want Hundley they are going to have to draft him at 16. There are 7-9 teams that are in need of a QB and probably only 4 QB's in the draft that could possibly be a starter in the NFL.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
He hates polls. We have too many polls.
...or that's the word on the street.
and czechs.
He hates these cans!!!
[IMGwidthsize=400]http://i.imgur.com/Oc5H1.jpg[/IMG]
Garrett Grayson
I like him as much as any QB in this draft besides Winston.
I like him as much as any QB in this draft besides Winston.
For the poll I voted Garrett Grayson, Brett Hundley in the 2nd round. I don't want Winston and trading up for Mariota will be prohibitively expensive. In actuality I think Hundley will go in the 1st round. QB's are over drafted due to the premium put on the position and Hundley has good skills to work with. I'd love to see the Texans trade down to the 22-24 range, pick up an extra 2nd rounder, and take Hundley in the 1st round.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
The only QB's in this draft that I'm even mildly interested in are Mariota, Hundley, and Grayson.
We aren't getting Mariota unless we trade up in the 1st.
We aren't getting Hundley unless we trade up in the 2nd or take him in the 1st.
Grayson will be available in the 2nd although I would prefer to take him in the 3rd and he might not be there.
We aren't getting Mariota unless we trade up in the 1st.
We aren't getting Hundley unless we trade up in the 2nd or take him in the 1st.
Grayson will be available in the 2nd although I would prefer to take him in the 3rd and he might not be there.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Unless you can move up to get a foundational type guy (and I dont think you can or you should considering what it would take) I'd say you cant tie up a high pick on this position as crazy as it may sound, I'd take any guy left on this list in the 5th or 6th.
Cant keep shuffling the deck on mediocre guys, weed out those type prospects in house and give the shot to either Mallet or Savage and hope for the best, all the while of course trying to find that franchise guy in case the opportunity presents itself, but the ship has sailed as far as using a high pick to select and groom that position. I dont see this team being rock bottom any time soon.
Cant keep shuffling the deck on mediocre guys, weed out those type prospects in house and give the shot to either Mallet or Savage and hope for the best, all the while of course trying to find that franchise guy in case the opportunity presents itself, but the ship has sailed as far as using a high pick to select and groom that position. I dont see this team being rock bottom any time soon.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
One thing we learned this season is that our team can play well despite the QB not playing well and we can actually win with these guys.
I mean we can say something for each one. Fitz can beat teams he supposed to, Mallet still has the jury out on him but he showed the flashes, Savage is a holding pentalty/roughing the passer penalty away in Indy and is young. Even Keenum showed and improvement and that he can win with the defense we have.
And as Uncle Rico stated, you can't tie up a high pick on the QB position and I would take a guy in the 5th, 6th or 7th round and to me that guy is.....
Blake Sims QB Alabama.
I mean we can say something for each one. Fitz can beat teams he supposed to, Mallet still has the jury out on him but he showed the flashes, Savage is a holding pentalty/roughing the passer penalty away in Indy and is young. Even Keenum showed and improvement and that he can win with the defense we have.
And as Uncle Rico stated, you can't tie up a high pick on the QB position and I would take a guy in the 5th, 6th or 7th round and to me that guy is.....
Blake Sims QB Alabama.
I think we're spoiled. I hate Ryan Fitzpatrick...... maybe not hate, but for the effect, I'm using the word here. I hate Ryan Fitzpatrick, but he played well. The difference between the way Ryan Fitzpatrick played & the way we want our QB to play is that Fitz played not to lose except in that Titans game where he threw for 10.8 yards per attempt, 6 TDs, & 0 INTs.
We want a QB that defenses are afraid to blitz.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
I hear you on that. My thinking is based on what's available when we draft at # 16. Outside of Mariota and Winston, there's no one QB to really covet at # 16. I think our other needs become more important in the 2nd , 3rd and 4th based on what QBs are available then plus we got a 4th rounder under contract right now. So 5th through 7th is where I see the rest of these guys. And out of that group, I'll take Blake Sims.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
At which point the first question is why take one at all.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Understandable. The only reason I would say is because we only know what we got in Fitzpatrick (which aint much).
Agreed.
I'm thinking the same way.
Winston is probably the most NFL ready & has the best physical tools .... But I just cant bring myself to wanting him on my team. The rape issue is the biggest even if he wasn't charged & then there is a pile of other baggage too.
There are only two others I'd take in the top two rounds , Mariota & Hundley. We have no shot at Hundley and 16 is probably too early for Hundley.
Find a team at ~24 that would pony up a 2nd rounder , even if its a late one to move up and I'd take him there and have another premium pick in hand.
I get the feeling they wont be drafting a QB early , or at all ... They'll resign Mallett & he starts from day one. If he fails or gets injured again , they'll draft one early in the following draft and we pissed away another year. If he doesn't fail , maybe we make the playoffs ...
I started to say something, but it is Corrosion. Figure the meds just kicked in
you meant "we have no shot at MARIOTA...", right?
Yeah , that's what I meant.
No shot at Mariota and 16 is too early for Hundley.
You could justify taking Hundley after a move back that netted you another 2nd rounder.
You don't take a QB in the first round unless you think he can be a franchise guy. Top 10, you believe he's a sure thing. Outside the top ten, you think there's a good chance.
So.
If you think Hundley could turn into a franchise guy, what player, available between 16 & 24 would you rather have than a possible franchise QB?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If you move back, get Hundley and a 2nd you turn into a solid DeMeco kind of pick I have no problem with that. That's pretty much the only scenario I see them taking a QB this year.
Or you move back eight spots & someone else takes your QB. Then you take your star player & try to get a QB in the second. Your first choice (actually 2nd QB) is taken before your pick & you have to settle for the third or maybe even 4th guy on your list.
We haven't even got to the combine yet. For all we know, there may be a top 10 grade on Hundley....
So how likely is it that we can move back and still get a Hundley? Moving back ~8 spots means we swap firsts with Detroit or Arizona. Now given the injury history of their starters - and the associated cap hits - it's not inconceivable 
that they might be shopping for an heir apparent to their starters.
So my question is, do you still make that trade. In this pretend scenario, they offer to swap firsts plus give us their 2nd and a 4th. But you miss out on Hundley.
What say you?
that they might be shopping for an heir apparent to their starters.So my question is, do you still make that trade. In this pretend scenario, they offer to swap firsts plus give us their 2nd and a 4th. But you miss out on Hundley.
What say you?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Works for me.
16=1000
DET: 23/54/119=760+360+56=1176
ARI: 24/55/120=740+350+54=1154
If my intent is to get Hundley I'd stipulate the teams I'm putting ahead of me won't draft him.
No idea yet at this point exactly what range Hundley is slotted/valued.
I respect Mayock's ability to dissect & analyze players. However, I question his ability to project them at the next level.
He just said, on NFLN, that he expects Winston & Mariota to go in the first, but he wouldn't grade Petty & Hundley in the second because they have so much to work on before they are NFL ready.
My question, is how are they different than Mariota? I know the sum of Mariota's physical traits & playing experience makes him a blue chip prospect. But the NFL game is just as foreign to him as it is to a guy like Petty, & Hundley's responsibilities at the line actually makes him more NFL ready, theoretically.
What is it, specifically, that guys like Hundley & Petty need to work on that Mariota does not?
He just said, on NFLN, that he expects Winston & Mariota to go in the first, but he wouldn't grade Petty & Hundley in the second because they have so much to work on before they are NFL ready.
My question, is how are they different than Mariota? I know the sum of Mariota's physical traits & playing experience makes him a blue chip prospect. But the NFL game is just as foreign to him as it is to a guy like Petty, & Hundley's responsibilities at the line actually makes him more NFL ready, theoretically.
What is it, specifically, that guys like Hundley & Petty need to work on that Mariota does not?
He also explained that if the first read isn't there for Petty/Hundley, they have real troubles and accuracy issues. Mariota is better at that
They all need work. That's Winston, included. They're college QBs coming into the NFL. The questions are do they have the ability, do they have the poise to survive while they are learning the ropes of NFL QBing.
I think they all do, but in my mind, Mariota is the clear top prospect when everything is said and done. He has the athleticism, he has the makeup. I think Hundley has got the goods, but is a notch below Mariota in just about every category. Winston has talent, and has been very productive at an early age. I just get the feeling he is one of those guys that peak early. I don't think he has the upside these other guys have. And the makeup makes me more concerned.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You think a 5th hits the practice squad? Cuz there's no room for him on the active.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Cody Fojardo would be my 2nd rated QB based on what I saw today.
PapaL
Loose Screw
He looked erratic during passing drills today to me. Announcers even mentioned his feet not being under him and him strictly throwing upper body.
There is if we dump Fitz.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's if we dump Fitz and Keenum (yes i know he is ERFA) and become about the 1st team I know of to carry 3 QBs with 2 starts between them.
Number19
Hall of Fame
There's a pretty good story in the Chronicle this morning about the QB position and the transition from the college level to the pro's. Nothing, really, that the informed participants of this forum don't already know, but still an interesting read.
"What you see in college football really has impacted our league"... Rick Smith
"So many times you're evaluating a QB who has never called a play in the huddle, never used a snap count...that ain't playing QB. There's no leadership involved there. When you get them and they have to use verbiage and they have to spit the verbiage out and change the snap count, they are light years behind." ... Arizona's Bruce Arians
"Basically you're talking about a kid that's in kindergarten and moving him to a college level class almost overnight" ... Mike Mayock
O'Brien believes there can be an overload of information at the QB position.
During the last five years only Indy's Luck and Seattle's Russel Wilson have cemented themselves among the league's elite.
Commenting on drafting a QB prospect, Mayock says, "You want to say you're going to need at least a redshirt year as a second or third round draft pick. But what they need is live snaps, not 7-on-7 snaps in practice."
So, put in this perspective, Savage may not be all that far behind the other draft picks from his class. I would also guess that, for him to continue making progress, the coaching staff recognizes that he needs to start taking snaps as the backup QB, this season.
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...allgame-for-college-QBs-taking-6094364.php#/0
"What you see in college football really has impacted our league"... Rick Smith
"So many times you're evaluating a QB who has never called a play in the huddle, never used a snap count...that ain't playing QB. There's no leadership involved there. When you get them and they have to use verbiage and they have to spit the verbiage out and change the snap count, they are light years behind." ... Arizona's Bruce Arians
"Basically you're talking about a kid that's in kindergarten and moving him to a college level class almost overnight" ... Mike Mayock
O'Brien believes there can be an overload of information at the QB position.
During the last five years only Indy's Luck and Seattle's Russel Wilson have cemented themselves among the league's elite.
Commenting on drafting a QB prospect, Mayock says, "You want to say you're going to need at least a redshirt year as a second or third round draft pick. But what they need is live snaps, not 7-on-7 snaps in practice."
So, put in this perspective, Savage may not be all that far behind the other draft picks from his class. I would also guess that, for him to continue making progress, the coaching staff recognizes that he needs to start taking snaps as the backup QB, this season.
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spo...allgame-for-college-QBs-taking-6094364.php#/0
So true, & what's worse, you're seeing athleticism move up on desirable traits. It used to be a plus, but when Michael Vick went #1 overall, all that changed. Take away his athleticism & Michael Vick is not a 1st round pick in any draft. Cam Newton isn't a #1 overall when you take away his athleticism.
But Michael Vick was able to win games & turn that athleticism into two $100M contracts & I can't lie, Cam is still one of my favorite players to watch (kid really loves the game).
Johnny Manziel was drafted ahead of Teddy Bridgewater... you know something's wrong.
Which really impresses me about Andrew Luck (he sucks) that kid understands football. You don't see Tom Brady get off-sides the way Luck does with his snap count. You don't see many veterans orchestrate a hurry up the way Luck does. He knows when he's got mismatches, he reads defenses, he sets up defenses.
If he ever gets his body in sync to what's going on in his head, then we're in real trouble.
I think Mayock is wrong on this one. Guys who haven't played under center need to play 7-on-7, they need to be running the scout team, they need to be working on mechanics before they get into game planning & preparation. Mechanics are going to change when the bullets start flying, but (imo) you need to get what's "right" ingrained in them so they'll at least have a solid foundation to fall back from.
Now Savage... He had pretty good mechanics from Pitt. He was familiar with playing under center, like Sean Mannion does this year. Savage is the guy who needs to get real game snaps.
Then again, if coaches do a good job with their game planning, they can put whoever they want on the field & find a way to win. Roethlisberger is a good example of that. Barely played from under center in college, didn't play Div I ball, but they had such a good run game & defense, it really didn't matter. But it's not like what the 9ers & Skins did to get their young QBs
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Andrew Luck | QB, Stanford | 2012 draft
Height: 6' 4"
Weight: 234
Arm Length: 32⅝"
Hand Size: 10"
40 Yard Dash: 4.67
Vertical Jump: 36"
Broad Jump: 124"
3 Cone Drill: 6.80
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.28
Wonderlic: 37
Agility Score: 11.08
Similar Players (Lower score = more similar)
Blaine Gabbert (2011): 3.6349964728883 (82.2%)
Giovanni Carmazzi (2000): 5.3660015204212 (77.7%)
Bryce Petty (2015): 5.7349173987496 (76.9%)
Christian Ponder (2011): 7.2951437376554 (74.3%)
Marcus Mariota (2015): 7.3321316309021 (74.2%)
Colin Kaepernick (2011): 8.1631306686193 (73.1%)
Jordan Jefferson (2012): 8.2064984057819 (73%)
Brett Hundley (2015): 8.2953795645898 (72.9%)
Pat Devlin (2011): 8.3156366602552 (72.9%)
J.P. Losman (2004): 8.34765742362 (72.8%)
Height: 6' 4"
Weight: 234
Arm Length: 32⅝"
Hand Size: 10"
40 Yard Dash: 4.67
Vertical Jump: 36"
Broad Jump: 124"
3 Cone Drill: 6.80
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.28
Wonderlic: 37
Agility Score: 11.08
Similar Players (Lower score = more similar)
Blaine Gabbert (2011): 3.6349964728883 (82.2%)
Giovanni Carmazzi (2000): 5.3660015204212 (77.7%)
Bryce Petty (2015): 5.7349173987496 (76.9%)
Christian Ponder (2011): 7.2951437376554 (74.3%)
Marcus Mariota (2015): 7.3321316309021 (74.2%)
Colin Kaepernick (2011): 8.1631306686193 (73.1%)
Jordan Jefferson (2012): 8.2064984057819 (73%)
Brett Hundley (2015): 8.2953795645898 (72.9%)
Pat Devlin (2011): 8.3156366602552 (72.9%)
J.P. Losman (2004): 8.34765742362 (72.8%)
Ummmm... I have a instinctual distrust of any number with 13 decimal points. What is it for anyway?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
So you're saying we reach for the third best QB which you can probably get in the fourth (Petty) with our 1-16 just because there is a need at QB. That somehow drafting him in the first makes him superior to that same player in the fourth.
I just don't get it.
BPA all the way. Need only fine tunes among players with similar potential.
ps Why is arm strength and potential for improvement. But he would still be behind a couple of QBs with experience. There are no instant starters in this years QB class.
Blake
MMQB
You are misreading or not reading at all. I am not saying anything in that post. Also, Petty is a 3rd round selection in the poll. Not sure where you got 1st round.
Ok. I really dont know what you are saying here. Not asking to pick an instant starter, simply asking who and what round you would pick up a QB in the draft if you knew you were going to draft one.