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Domanick Davis, any questions?
- Thread starter supertankman
- Start date
Fiddy said:
Come on, what do you expect here. You have a very young team with a terrible O-line, which is hurting DD as well as Carr and the Wr's. Plus your D is as bad as my Seahawks, if not worse. I don't have the stats on who is in fact worse statistically, but I think we are both in the same boat. Football is a team game, and your team has a lot of young talent, as well as a lot of holes such as O-line and D-line.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fiddy said:
So the obvious conclusion for you to draw is DD sucks vs. what many people might say in light of the fact that the Jags have a better record, which is they are a better team at this point. What are you trying to say now anyway--it isn't empty yards anymore, it is empty touches?--stick to an argument. By the way, the Chiefs were 11-2 when Holmes touched the ball 20 or more times last season whereas the Chargers were 4-9 when LT touched the ball 20 or more times. This year, the Chiefs were 4-4 when Holmes touched the ball 20 or more times and the Chargeres are 10-3 when LT touched the ball 20 or more times. So does that mean Holmes ruled last year and LT sucked or that this year LT rules and Holmes sucks? No, it means your example above means diddly squat for judging a RB.
You do realize there is a huge area in between elite RB and sucks RB that must be trashed whenever his name comes up--don't you?
And by the way did you notice the comment about Taylor and Jones having a combined 4 TD's? That would be one-third of DD's TD's. And before you say, but yeah he sets up the passing game, the Jags have just 3 more passing TD's than the Texans, so let's add those in--Taylor/Jones/improved passing game 7 vs. DD 12. But no, the difference between the Texans' record and the Jags' must be that DD sucks and Taylor rules, not that the Jags DT's are 2 of the best 10 in the league or that their OL gives up half as many sacks and run blocks better, or that Carr gets vapor lock of the cranial cavity whenever he sees a cover 2 scheme, etc.--nah, never mind--it is all DD's fault.
Fiddy
All Pro
When did I ever say Davis sucks and when did I ever say Taylor rules???
All I was pointing out with that stat was that production is measured in just more that TDs. You almost made it out that since Davis had more TDs than AJ, Davis has been more productive. Davis didnt drive 80 yards to set up his own TDs. On his recieving one, AJ got tripped up at the 5 and Davis caught the short pass after that. Davis has done a great job of getting the ball in from short distances. But does that make you a franchise back??? No.
As good as their record is, the Jags are 3 plays away from having about the same record as us so I think the teams are pretty even.
I am going to leave this thread now because it is going around in a circle and is getting really drawn out. And I seriously start to get headaches when I come back to this thread. I will also try to refrain from talking about Davis being or not being our franchise back for awhile. But before I do leave, I will say this because people will rat on me when we dont draft a back in this year's daft: Davis may be our back going into next year and I wont be surprised because I dont think we will have a high enough pick to snatch Ronnie Brown (at least me and Cak agree on Brown), Williams, or Benson...
All I was pointing out with that stat was that production is measured in just more that TDs. You almost made it out that since Davis had more TDs than AJ, Davis has been more productive. Davis didnt drive 80 yards to set up his own TDs. On his recieving one, AJ got tripped up at the 5 and Davis caught the short pass after that. Davis has done a great job of getting the ball in from short distances. But does that make you a franchise back??? No.
As good as their record is, the Jags are 3 plays away from having about the same record as us so I think the teams are pretty even.
I am going to leave this thread now because it is going around in a circle and is getting really drawn out. And I seriously start to get headaches when I come back to this thread. I will also try to refrain from talking about Davis being or not being our franchise back for awhile. But before I do leave, I will say this because people will rat on me when we dont draft a back in this year's daft: Davis may be our back going into next year and I wont be surprised because I dont think we will have a high enough pick to snatch Ronnie Brown (at least me and Cak agree on Brown), Williams, or Benson...
Wolf
100% Texan
yall made good points
let me ask this..If you had AJ at WR and LT at RB... how many points (on average would you think we would score?
now being we have AJ at WR and DD at RB.. we already know how many points we score..
(not getting into a carr - brees debate)
the difference is LT can go paydirt from anywhere on the field at any time.. DD can't
Not knocking DD..he just doesn't have the speed.
let me ask this..If you had AJ at WR and LT at RB... how many points (on average would you think we would score?
now being we have AJ at WR and DD at RB.. we already know how many points we score..
(not getting into a carr - brees debate)
the difference is LT can go paydirt from anywhere on the field at any time.. DD can't
Not knocking DD..he just doesn't have the speed.
Wolf
100% Texan
Fiddy said:
I agree. I just find it funny that people say the OL didn't block when DD has a bad game and when he has a good game we all jump on the franchise RB bandwagon(hey, our OL blocked well).I think our main points are that \he doesn't break one open when he gets into the open field. That separates the franchise backs from the solid backs.
Wolf
100% Texan
one another thread, I wanted to see who people thought where the top 15 Rb's in the league... 2 people but DD at 14 and others didn't name him in the list..
so even with him named.. that is middle of the pack in terms of RB.. I think of franchise backs as at least in the top 10
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=5313
I am not saying these people are all knowing or anything, I just wanted to do a different spin on the argument in here.
so even with him named.. that is middle of the pack in terms of RB.. I think of franchise backs as at least in the top 10
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=5313
I am not saying these people are all knowing or anything, I just wanted to do a different spin on the argument in here.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fiddy said:
We should start a thread over in the draft forum after the last two games and keep track of all the players that won't be available when we pick--if it is anything like last year, 45 players will be nominated for 15 spots. I will be surprised if all three of those RB's get takin in the top half of the 1st round, but it certainly could happen.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wolf said:
Well if you would replace LT in your question with Portis, you see what I was trying to get at with showing the dramatic drop off in Portis' production in Washington vs. Denver. Portis has the speed to go paydirt from anywhere on the field at any time but it isn't happening anymore.
2002 5.5 ypc 15 TD's 11 runs over 20 yds
2003 5.5 ypc 14 TD's 13 runs over 20 yds
2004 3.9 ypc 5 TD's 5 runs over 20 yds
So noone would argue Portis wasn't a franchise back and wasn't explosive in Denver--did he stop being a franchise back in Washington and isn't explosive anymore? Nope, the team around him ain't getting it done.
As for the argument that maybe Portis is getting them in position to score more so it just isn't in his stats:
2003 Washington 17.9 points per game
2004 Washington 14.9 points per game
And no, the point of this isn't that DD is as good as Portis, it is simply that all the running game ills of a team cannot be fairly laid at the feet of the RB. JMO, DD ain't elite, but he is holding the running game back less than the OL at this point.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
30 carries, 150 yards, a long run of 44, and a touchdown today. He did it against the number 9 rushing defense in the NFL. The difference between the 9th ranked and 1st ranked rushing defenses is about 20 yards a game so I think it's safe to assume that Jacksonville has a "good" rushing defense.
What more does he have to do? Davis isn't fast. He's never going to be fast. He gets it done differently by running hard, breaking tackles, and squirting through the tiny holes our line gives him at times. He's got good hands and can catch the ball out of the backfield. When he gets into the open field he rips one off. Jacksonville didn't give him either of his two long runs today as some have said Tennessee did a few weeks ago.
Davis is a franchise back. The only real question I have left about Davis is whether or not he can stay healthy for a full season. Aside from that he ranks among those I consider "franchise backs". Is the the best franchise back? I don't think so but he is one of them.
What more does he have to do? Davis isn't fast. He's never going to be fast. He gets it done differently by running hard, breaking tackles, and squirting through the tiny holes our line gives him at times. He's got good hands and can catch the ball out of the backfield. When he gets into the open field he rips one off. Jacksonville didn't give him either of his two long runs today as some have said Tennessee did a few weeks ago.
Davis is a franchise back. The only real question I have left about Davis is whether or not he can stay healthy for a full season. Aside from that he ranks among those I consider "franchise backs". Is the the best franchise back? I don't think so but he is one of them.
I agree with you Herv. Get that boy some better blocking and that will improve not only his rushing ability.. but his durability. He could definatly be our guy if we get him some more help at the line of scrimmage.
Maybe we should be thinking of how to improve our blocking.. instead of getting us a big back than can force his way past a bad block.
Maybe we should be thinking of how to improve our blocking.. instead of getting us a big back than can force his way past a bad block.
TexansFan.com
Practice Squad
What a great day for D. Davis! Congrats to him for such an outstanding performance.supertankman said:
rittenhouserobz
Veteran
Grid said:
I would like a little of both. A slightly larger RB and a little better blocking. Improving just one area would not be the best solution.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Take away the big runs from a majority of the backs people consider "franchise" and you get the same thing. On many of those small runs Davis was met in the backfield. Not many franchise backs look like one when they're met in the backfield by the defense.
And yes Wags, Fred isn't a franchise back by that definition. He's a glorified third down back
And yes Wags, Fred isn't a franchise back by that definition. He's a glorified third down back
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Fiddy said:
Which tells me that we need an option besides Davis. When Fred gets nicked up and can't play (cause he's not a franchise back and can't do that) then the Jags have someone else who can come in and carry the ball. When the Texans are in that situation with Davis (who's obviously not a franchise back either because he can't play well when nicked up) they bring in even more injury proned Tony Hollings and Jonathan Wells who...oh wait Wells got his hundred when he came in against the Raiders.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Vinny said:
I never said he was. I said Davis was a franchise back. I never said Davis was the best franchise back out there. I would even accept that he's in the lower end of that range but I think of all the guys playing right now who get the label or just do the job of "franchise back" Davis belongs.
rittenhouserobz
Veteran
Hervoyel said:
If I think about it every RB gets a few plays off, thus meaning they did not play 60 minutes. By your definition a RB can never be a franchise back. Personally I would like to have a guy like Jamal Lewis. A big Bruiser that DBs hate to encounter.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
rittenhouserobz said:
A few plays off isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about getting nicked up (as non-franchise back type players like Domanick Davis and Fred Taylor are wont to do) and having to come out of the game like Taylor did against us earlier this year with his wimpy little hip pointer injury. He started that game and he may even have played the one after that but just because it was one of his "46 straight starts" doesn't mean he's an iron man now or anything.
He got banged up and he was done for the day. "Fragile", not "Franchise".
DD is starting to grow on me. I was highly critical of him early, but he has been showing some elusiveness, power and determination and is always good out of the backfield. He's healthy too. I'm still not 100% sold, but he at least seems capable of some pretty good things for years to come if he runs like he has the last few weeks. He's also has done it against a good run D in Jax and not a bad one in Chicago.
BuffSoldier
Veteran
Fiddy said:
Well when you have Stroud and Henderson in the middle, alot of your runs will go for 1 or less yards. Did you see DD just simply run one yard and sit down, no DD ran with authority the whole game, but when your O-line cant play with the same aggresion, then you end up having 1 yard plays, and negative plays. I dont care who see had in the backfield, we could have had Jim Orenthall Sanders(mix of Jim Brown OJ and Barry Sanders) but when you have 2 or 3 out of the 4 D-lineman in the backfield directly after the hand off, you have no choice but to lay it down.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fiddy said:
It is comments like this that make anything of merit you might say about DD look like the ravings of an irrational DD hater. Sure, DD must suck because the OL olays on some plays and lets him get hit at or behind the line of scrimmage--yeah that is good analysis. And Barry Sanders sucked because he had more stuffs than any RB of his time--yah sure.
(disclaimer for the analogy impaired--no I am not saying DD is Barry Sanders)
Fiddy
All Pro
still dont see where I put "Davis sucks"...
What I am trying to understand is when Davis has a bad day it is all because of the O-line. But when he has a good run, its all because of Davis and not one thing is said about the O-line. On Davis' 40 yard run, Wand or Wade was 20 yards downfield blocking. Davis can only do what the O-line can do...but he did break a lot of arm tackles today
What I am trying to understand is when Davis has a bad day it is all because of the O-line. But when he has a good run, its all because of Davis and not one thing is said about the O-line. On Davis' 40 yard run, Wand or Wade was 20 yards downfield blocking. Davis can only do what the O-line can do...but he did break a lot of arm tackles today
Hervoyel
BUENO!
That's why I'm friggin desperate to see the line start playing well consistently Fiddy. Because until they're something like a constant it's hard to tell how much of a real threat Davis is. Right now the line is IMO still suspect. They still aren't executing well on a regular basis and it's tough to tell whether the 1-2 yard carries are on Davis or on them. Every back is going to have some of those but right now and for the majority of this season Davis has had more than he should have.
2005 is I think when we maybe get a definitive answer on this. I am going into 2005 thinking of Davis the way I thought of him coming into this year. In 2003 he impressed me and I was looking forward to seeing him play in his second year in this system. Then the run blocking scheme changed and he got off to that awful start with the fumbles.
2005 is going to be his (and the Texans) second year running this blocking scheme. I want to see what comes of Davis in 2005.
2005 is I think when we maybe get a definitive answer on this. I am going into 2005 thinking of Davis the way I thought of him coming into this year. In 2003 he impressed me and I was looking forward to seeing him play in his second year in this system. Then the run blocking scheme changed and he got off to that awful start with the fumbles.
2005 is going to be his (and the Texans) second year running this blocking scheme. I want to see what comes of Davis in 2005.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fiddy said:
I have never asserted you literally said that but it is the glaring inference from the negative spins you put on everything DD does.
Clearly you aren't refering to me here as IMO the OL & RB must both be working to see the full potential of each. Yes the OL should get credit when they block well (that would be called doing their job well) and if you look around the league, most of the time when you see a top 10 RB, you see a pretty good OL. On the other hand, when the RB gets hit two yards deep in the back field it is pretty silly to act like it is the RB's fault.
Fiddy
All Pro
I dont think he sucks. He has two 1,000 yard seasons. He doesnt suck but I believe there can be an upgrade at that position that would greatly benefit the team...infantrycak said:
I understand your point there, but those top 10 backs in league do get hit in the backfield sometimes and when they do, they can turn the broken play into a good play. I never said it was Davis' fault but I would like him to make something out of nothing every now and then...infantrycak said:
And in the 3rd quarter, I think it was the 3rd, Carr play actioned to Davis when Stroud or Henderson was in the back field and which ever one it was, didnt even make a motion towards Davis. And that was after he had his two biggest runs...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fiddy said:
You mean like today when DD got hit at the line or one yard back and turned it into a 9 yd gain?
Anyway, let's just both hope that the OL comes together next year so we can see the full potential of DD or whomever we have at RB next year--and of David Carr for that matter.
brickmantexanfan
Waterboy
brickmantexanfan said:
Just incase you missed this post last week,I noticed a change in a few of our on the wagon off the wagon fans.Once again the man did not make rookie of the year last year for no reason.
