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Did anyone else notice ...?
- Thread starter eriadoc
- Start date
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
eriadoc said:
I did as well. Davis played well today.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
tulexan said:
Anyone that wants Bush definetly should agree with you.
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
tulexan said:
im with you i was glad when ever he was braking them (10 20)lol yarders hopefully some Gm's around the league were watching.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Grid said:
Don't let it upset you or anything man. We're all wanting a better Houston Texans team, we just have different ideas how to get there that's all.
I know one thing. Whatever they end up doing one group on this board is going to be raising all kinds of hell next year.
Imagine this ok. We pass on Bush and trade down. With the extra pick we get a TE in the 2nd (for instance, whatever) and next years #1 from the team we traded with. Then we take Brick with our new #1 farther down. Cool but that TE doesn't immediatly look like Jeremy Shockey and Brick, even if he's as great as they say is still a rookie. We all know that it's going to take time for those players at those positions to develop correctly. Maybe we have Pitts still starting at LT and Brick backing him up or over at RT. Anyway if things aren't going well then the first time Bush rips off a 100-150 yard game or hey, even a 40+ yard run the threads are gonna start. Remember how every year you still see a "We should have taken Portis!" post or thread? This is going to dwarf that.
And if we do take Bush he'd better start racking up hundred yard games and TD's from day one or the other half of the board is going to be throwing out every possible player we might have had if we had just traded down. Every sack of Carr is going to be followed with a "Too bad Reggie Bush doesn't play LT and didn't block that guy" post.
Next year might just get really ugly if there isn't some winning to take the edge off of both camps.
run-david-run
All Pro
yeah, like maybe ours!!! Trading DD could be one of the biggest mistakes the Texans would ever make... Bush is not the answer, Rb is the absolute least of our troubles right now.Napa Auto Parts said:
TexanExile
A New Hope
Runner said:
Awww, c'mon---sure we can! As long as all passes are also to DD. Remember Houston's 2004 offensive scheme?
God, I miss that scheme.
As I was reading that post Herv.. i was thinking that I was gonna post "People dont whine as much when we are winning games".. but you made that comment at the end of your post.
I personally feel a bit of loyalty towards DD. He has worked his butt off and he is improving every season. he is already good enough to be a starter on MOST NFL teams, and with Wells backing him up I think we have all the talent we need at RB.
Bush is a very promising prospect.. but it is one position that we REALLY dont need anyone else. Even if he becomes another LT (which..btw..is unlikely.. not impossible..but not a sure thing by any stretch).. even if he does.. we really dont NEED an LT on our team.
WOuld it be nice to have LT on our team? yah.. but will it make us win? no.. we need more than a running game.. we already have a running game. We need an Oline.. we need playmakers on defense.. we need a TE.. we may even need a QB.
Anyway.. im rambling and this doesnt really apply to your post Herv
. I agree with ya though.. no matter what, we are gonna be hearing about it later.. and the only way to stop the whining is to win games.. so lets hope that whatever way we go, it improves our team.
I personally feel a bit of loyalty towards DD. He has worked his butt off and he is improving every season. he is already good enough to be a starter on MOST NFL teams, and with Wells backing him up I think we have all the talent we need at RB.
Bush is a very promising prospect.. but it is one position that we REALLY dont need anyone else. Even if he becomes another LT (which..btw..is unlikely.. not impossible..but not a sure thing by any stretch).. even if he does.. we really dont NEED an LT on our team.
WOuld it be nice to have LT on our team? yah.. but will it make us win? no.. we need more than a running game.. we already have a running game. We need an Oline.. we need playmakers on defense.. we need a TE.. we may even need a QB.
Anyway.. im rambling and this doesnt really apply to your post Herv
. I agree with ya though.. no matter what, we are gonna be hearing about it later.. and the only way to stop the whining is to win games.. so lets hope that whatever way we go, it improves our team.
Goldeagle
Veteran
Im still for keeping DD with Wells as his back up. I just have doubts about Bush and his size. I do like his back up Lindelle White who is like 230 in the NFL.
I say trade the first pick (cuz we are going to get it), and get that O-line everyone here has known we have needed except Casserly and Capers. But, I have no reason nor can I point to anything saying Bush wont succeed, just how I feel. He is only 200lbs so I wonder if he could handle the hits and rigors of the NFL.
I say trade the first pick (cuz we are going to get it), and get that O-line everyone here has known we have needed except Casserly and Capers. But, I have no reason nor can I point to anything saying Bush wont succeed, just how I feel. He is only 200lbs so I wonder if he could handle the hits and rigors of the NFL.
TexanExile
A New Hope
Grid said:
I agree with a lot of that post, Grid, but I can't go along with the part I put in bold. This team is not deep at RB. Wells has been good but not great, and DD's just not durable enough to be the only real RB on the roster. Morency's shown nothing promising, but that's not entirely on him, of course. Hollings is waiver-wire fodder who'll be lucky to make an NFL roster next year.
I think DD has been the best offensive starter on the Texans this year, and I'm loving his better handling of the football this year. But to say "we're deep at RB" is kind of like those of us (me included) who said the Texans were deep at WR this year--just wasn't true when they had to replace AJ.
Anyway, you're absolutely right that DD's getting better. Healthier? No. But better. And you're also right that having LT didn't make the Chargers an instant winner. The possible Bush pick'll be a tough call--one that I won't be prepared to make until after the Rose Bowl.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
Goldeagle said:
Not too sure on who we have to pick but Bush being 200 lbs now doesnt mean he wont be at an ideal weight of 220-225 lbs once he gets into a weight training regimen of the NFL. To say that his 200 lbs is the reason we dont take him is RIDICULOUS...
On the other hand WE HAVE ALL KNOWN FOR THE PAST 3YRS that what we have NEEDED is an OFFENSIVE LINE that can actually protect our QB for more than 1.8 seconds...I'm surprised these quick slants and quick throws to the sidelines havent resulted in more INTS run back the other way for 6...I know i would be jumping that route if I were a DB.
The result of all this probably wont be decided until draft day or even the combines at the earliest...after we see how people score on all of the test and we interview several players will our front office have any GOOD CLUE on who we should draft.
I will agree with most of this board that CHANGES MUST BE MADE...and I will also go as far as agreeing that the changes must come in the coaching staff before we dismantle this team that has not been given a proper chance to win...the lack of attempt to fix the offensive line last year was just ludicrous.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
gg no re said:
What's your point? So what if Bush is listed at 6' even. You don't really think he's 6 feet tall do you? Even if he is that just means he could add a little weight with no harm done. When he gets to the NFL some strength and conditioning coach is going to have a field day with him.
Look what Ricky Williams got down to and then got back up to in relatively no time at all. Bush being 200 lbs is a non-issue. It's just another straw some hater is grabbing on. There are plenty of reasons to not want to draft Bush before you ever get anywhere near his size.
I accept the argument that the picks you could get in exchange for his rights would be more useful. I'm interested in hearing what people who support that plan would do with a hypothetical package of draft picks. Talking about him only being 200 pounds is just stupid though.
J-Storm
Waterboy
I think from about 2 weeks ago DD was awre he'd better step up with a good performance when he could. Like mentioned above, with yet another loss I'm sure he will have "With the 1st pick in the '06 Draft, the Houston Texans select..." playing loud and clear on every down from here on 'til the last game of the season!
And I agree that not sayin taking Bush 'cos of his current frame of 200lbs is starting to stretch for a reason not to select him. I still don't think we need him but I guess we all have to wait and cross that bridge when we get to it...
And I agree that not sayin taking Bush 'cos of his current frame of 200lbs is starting to stretch for a reason not to select him. I still don't think we need him but I guess we all have to wait and cross that bridge when we get to it...
eriadoc
Texan-American
To add two comments --
Shaun Alexander and ... some other big name FA RB (I forget who) were being shopped around this past offseason and their teams could not even get a 3rd round pick for them. So all this DD trade talk is pretty silly, especially when you factor in the new contract. Besides, if we compiled a top-10 list of what's wrong with this team, DD would be nowhere on the list. This line of reasoning leads me to believe it's pretty illogical to draft Bush. The only argument I have seen (repeatedly, dear god) for drafting Bush is "You can't pass up that talent!". Well, we may or may not end up picking #1 overall, but Bush will likely go in the top 3 picks. There aren't that many joint occurrences of RBs and tackles being taken in the top 5, but there are plenty in which a tackle and a sure-fire prospect otherwise were taken in the top 5 or 10.
In 1993, the Cardinals took Garrison Hearst at 1.3. Hearst was probably every bit as hyped as Bush is now, but people have short memories when it comes to these things. The Saints took Willie Roaf at 1.8. The Rams took Bettis at 1.10 and even though Bettis won ROY, I'd be willing to bet the Rams wish they'd taken Roaf. In 1995, the Bengals took Ki Jana Carter at 1.1 and he was as hyped as any college player entering the pro ranks has ever been. The Jags took Tony Boselli at 1.2 and I'm going to guess that, even with Boselli's shortened career, they feel like they got the better of those two picks. In 1997, Shawn Springs and Darrel Russell were highly-touted defensive players in what was a defense-heavy draft. Half of the first 20 picks were defensive and only 5 were skill positions (including Tony Gonzales). Orlando Pace was taken at 1.1 overall, Darrell Russell at 1.2, and Shawn Springs at 1.3. Incidentally, the team that took Springs at 1.3 also took Walter Jones at 1.6. In 2002, the top pick overall was David Carr. Yay. Harrington was the only other skill position taken in the top 10. Now, Carr was not as hyped as some of these other players coming out of college, but here are some of the other players taken in the top 9 spots - Peppers, Jammer, and John Henderson. I am willing to bet that the Vikings are happy with their 1.7 pick of Bryant McKinnie at LT and the Bengals will want to keep Levi Jones at 1.10. Anyway, just some food for thought.
Second, all this talk about Bush being 200 lbs. contains a great deal of hypocrisy. Many people that deride DD for his size and perceived durability are the same ones touting Bush as the Messiah. And the reverse occurs frequently as well.
Shaun Alexander and ... some other big name FA RB (I forget who) were being shopped around this past offseason and their teams could not even get a 3rd round pick for them. So all this DD trade talk is pretty silly, especially when you factor in the new contract. Besides, if we compiled a top-10 list of what's wrong with this team, DD would be nowhere on the list. This line of reasoning leads me to believe it's pretty illogical to draft Bush. The only argument I have seen (repeatedly, dear god) for drafting Bush is "You can't pass up that talent!". Well, we may or may not end up picking #1 overall, but Bush will likely go in the top 3 picks. There aren't that many joint occurrences of RBs and tackles being taken in the top 5, but there are plenty in which a tackle and a sure-fire prospect otherwise were taken in the top 5 or 10.
In 1993, the Cardinals took Garrison Hearst at 1.3. Hearst was probably every bit as hyped as Bush is now, but people have short memories when it comes to these things. The Saints took Willie Roaf at 1.8. The Rams took Bettis at 1.10 and even though Bettis won ROY, I'd be willing to bet the Rams wish they'd taken Roaf. In 1995, the Bengals took Ki Jana Carter at 1.1 and he was as hyped as any college player entering the pro ranks has ever been. The Jags took Tony Boselli at 1.2 and I'm going to guess that, even with Boselli's shortened career, they feel like they got the better of those two picks. In 1997, Shawn Springs and Darrel Russell were highly-touted defensive players in what was a defense-heavy draft. Half of the first 20 picks were defensive and only 5 were skill positions (including Tony Gonzales). Orlando Pace was taken at 1.1 overall, Darrell Russell at 1.2, and Shawn Springs at 1.3. Incidentally, the team that took Springs at 1.3 also took Walter Jones at 1.6. In 2002, the top pick overall was David Carr. Yay. Harrington was the only other skill position taken in the top 10. Now, Carr was not as hyped as some of these other players coming out of college, but here are some of the other players taken in the top 9 spots - Peppers, Jammer, and John Henderson. I am willing to bet that the Vikings are happy with their 1.7 pick of Bryant McKinnie at LT and the Bengals will want to keep Levi Jones at 1.10. Anyway, just some food for thought.
Second, all this talk about Bush being 200 lbs. contains a great deal of hypocrisy. Many people that deride DD for his size and perceived durability are the same ones touting Bush as the Messiah. And the reverse occurs frequently as well.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I don't recall Garrison Hearst being considered the elite no-brainer everyone seems to think Bush is, and I have followed the draft closely for decades. I just remember him being considered the best back in that draft class....Bush is being talked about like a once in a decade or two type talent.
SBTexans08
Rookie
Once in a decade sounds pretty darn correct to me.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
eriadoc said:
Good post E. I have been asking to trade down to take LT Ferguson, but even my want reminds me that LTs are not any different in the hype, see Tony Mandarich.
I would like to see us keep DD and get Bush. All good NFL teams have a change of pace back. You need more than one back to carry the work load, with the exception of 2-3 teams. What bad could come from haveing more than one good back, or for that instance more than 1 good backup. Also with the versatility of Bush he could be split out wide and be a factor.
Not exactly like Davis is chopped liver anyhow. In 3 years, the guy has rushed for 3056. He's on his way to his third straight thousand yard season and although his touchdown numbers are going to dip, I still think the Texans have a hell of a HB already on their roster.
I like Bush as much as anyone else, but if Houston can get a good return trade-wise, I wouldn't hesitate.
I like Bush as much as anyone else, but if Houston can get a good return trade-wise, I wouldn't hesitate.
TexanExile
A New Hope
I'll be curious to see just how brave Casserly is with that trade possibility right now, assuming there's a #1 pick for Houston and assuming Cass is still employed by the Texans come draft-time. A couple of bad trades (see Babin and Buchanon) may make him less willing to stick his neck out.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
The way I see it is this, that run that Davis had set up a field goal for us because he was caught from behind. Bush would finish that play with a TD.
Guys, this guy has a legend who has never had contact with before vying for him as legit. Gayle Sayers has mentioned that this guy has skills that you just can't coach. He basically is saying this guy will make it in the NFL. We gotta get him and instead of building the offense around Carr, build the offense around him.
Guys, this guy has a legend who has never had contact with before vying for him as legit. Gayle Sayers has mentioned that this guy has skills that you just can't coach. He basically is saying this guy will make it in the NFL. We gotta get him and instead of building the offense around Carr, build the offense around him.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Kaiser Toro said:
No position is exempt from busts, but first-round tackles have actually been surprisingly correct picks. Mandarich is the big name that sticks out for tackle, but there are a few others that weren't as hyped that really haven't lived up to expectations as well. Running backs are not taken as frequently in the top 20 anymore, with good reason, but there have been many more hyped players bust out at running back than at tackle. Of course, the proviso to this is we're dealing with a fluid intangible called "hype"
Just off the top of my head, however, in the last 10 years, I can think of Thomas Jones (considered a bust until last year), Curtis Enis, Robert Edwards (injuries, IIRC), Lawrence Phillips, Tim Biakabutuka, KiJana Carter, Ty Wheatley (lasted a while, but never lived up to 1st-round status), and Nap Kaufman (injuries). I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. Skill position players are just so dependent upon the team around them to make plays and our team's foundation is too flawed for skill position players to consistently be effective.Victor Riley was taken in the first round in 1998, I think, since we're on the topic of busts
S
SESupergenius
Guest
I pose this question. Can Reggie Bush block? Can he pick up the blitz. If so then he's our man as DD just doesn't have it be a complete RB. Sure he racked up big yards yesterday, but it few and far between. Could another RB have done just as good, some of those holes were blantanly wide open.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
SESupergenius said:
I can honsetly say that I have not seen marked improvement from DD in his blocking. And I have not watched Bush enough to see him in the backfield where he is called to block. This very important piece of the game will need to be addressed by Bush's team to any prospective suitor.
eriadoc
Texan-American
SESupergenius said:
I'll agree that DD's blocking is his weakest point. There was at least one sack yesterday that was squarely on his shoulders. I hate that he is such a poor blocker. However, I'll have to disagree with you on the "blatantly wide open" statement about the running lanes yesterday. DD did a lot of the work himself cutting back and picking up yardage in traffic. Even when he is going down, he always seems to squeeze between a couple guys and end up with a yard or two more than you initally thought he had. One of the things that everyone overlooks about DD is the way he keeps his legs moving and breaks tackles quite a bit. That is not a given with running backs. Many of the speedster tailbacks coming out of college have never really had to break tackles in the NCAA because they've had good college-level O-lines and the speed to get outside. In the NFL, getting an outside corner and getting upfield is not that common. DD does a great job of running between the tackles.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
I havn't watched enough of Bush to determine that either, but that is a major factor in considering him to be the number one pick, he has to be a complete back. If he's not then DD will suffice and we can focus our pick in another direction.
edo783
Hall of Fame
What I have seen of Bush he SEEMS to be a better blocker (2 games) than DD (horrible), but he doesn't seem to have the power to move the pile like DD did Sunday. DD is the more of a power runner (not a Bettis) and Bush is more of the outside runner. Both can do either, but they each have their niche. Once they are in the open it's hands down Bush. I suspect that DD has the better hands.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
If we took Bush, would he automatically be one of our two best receivers without question? That doesn't necessarilly sell me on him, but AJ does need help. If Bush is that much better than Gaff and Armstrong at that position and also better at blocking than DD, that goes a long way with me. People keep saying that Bush could line up at receiver, but are we talking Gaffney and Armstrong type talent or Jerry freaking Rice? I don't doubt that he'd be great after the catch.
Complete issues with Bush both positive and negaive that needs to be brought to the table:
1) He is awfully small in size, DD is 220 and has durability issues, I wonder about Bush.
2) His success is predicated on getting space, mostly as a result of the passing game's respect, he's been playing against college players. Remember how good Charles Rogers looked?
3) I still don't understand how he can succeed when we have no semblance of an offensive line.
Bush is absolutely amazing, I just think amazingly his issues and his skills may not give the team the impact many seem to think.
1) He is awfully small in size, DD is 220 and has durability issues, I wonder about Bush.
2) His success is predicated on getting space, mostly as a result of the passing game's respect, he's been playing against college players. Remember how good Charles Rogers looked?
3) I still don't understand how he can succeed when we have no semblance of an offensive line.
Bush is absolutely amazing, I just think amazingly his issues and his skills may not give the team the impact many seem to think.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Sanders won the same amount of Super Bowls as Dan Marino, Earl Campbell and OJ Simpson.....all those great players were well worth watching during their careers and were not the reasons their franchises did not ever win it all. Frankly they are the reason their teams were playoff teams.HJam72 said:
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I bet if we trade down, Bush becomes a hall of famer and we end up the Tampa Bay Bucs trading Earl Campbell for Jimmy Giles and a sack of magic beans. I just don't trust Casserly to get better players with later picks....hell we took Travis Johnson for need (what everyone is suggesting - drafting for need)...THAT is exactly the kind of pick we will get if we trade down