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Deshaun Watson... are we giving him a pass?

SnakeEyes

Rookie
Let's be honest here...

  • Majority of us want Jack Easterby gone!
  • Majority of us think Cal is doing a horrible job!
  • Majority of us aren't happy with the Caserio hire... not because he may be a bad GM, but it's a sign that Cal is staying the course.
If Deshaun just accepted it and played a good soldier, then nothing would change. We should be happy DW is expressing his frustration, this is probably the only way Cal will make serious changes.
No we should not. Watson is acting up and Cal is not going to do anything about it. As another member posted, he is not going to be involved with the GM really anyway. He is going to be involved in the process for a HC. I'm fairly certain Caserio will have him involved. However, does anyone really think that his opinion matters that much? Look at it like 4 quarters, if you are honest Watson's choice/opinion/list of candidates is equal to what 1/4th. Simply because he may not like the system 100% or something. Yet the FO and GM (as well as many players) like the HC option. It's just how it is in life, a HC or a Boss.
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
We all knew the selection for GM was coming very soon. We needed that to get the HC. We knew. He knew. That’s why I don’t understand the rush to run to Cabo and then complain about not being consulted were you weren’t in town.

It’s just as important to remember it’s not only about getting the virus - it’s about spreading it. You never know who you come in contact with.
Well said. Plus, Watson knew about the GM possiblity of Caserio since last year. The team had tampering charges for us going after him last year. Why would he or anyone else not know that Caserio had been and was a top canidate for the position?

A true face in palm situation if you want to think he was "unaware and not consulted"
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No we should not. Watson is acting up and Cal is not going to do anything about it. As another member posted, he is not going to be involved with the GM really anyway. He is going to be involved in the process for a HC. I'm fairly certain Caserio will have him involved. However, does anyone really think that his opinion matters that much? Look at it like 4 quarters, if you are honest Watson's choice/opinion/list of candidates is equal to what 1/4th. Simply because he may not like the system 100% or something. Yet the FO and GM (as well as many players) like the HC option. It's just how it is in life, a HC or a Boss.
Quoted for truth.

As far as the title of this thread goes, he needs to worry about his passing capabilities and not about mgmt. Otherwise if you get an offer you like trade his azz.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
Quoted for truth.

As far as the title of this thread goes, he needs to worry about his passing capabilities and not about mgmt. Otherwise if you get an offer you like trade his azz.
Dude I bet a little chill runs down your spine every time you type trade him or some variant of that gawd daaamn
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Dude I bet a little chill runs down your spine every time you type trade him or some variant of that gawd daaamn
LMAO

You do realize with the qay his contract is setup the Texans wont be winning anything?

I'm just glad fans are able to see the hissy fit DW4's throwing and yes Cal's an idiot
 

TripleTap

Dead Wood
Somebody has to put up a Trade or Not trade Watson thread. I love him but if he’s really worth a king’s ransom in players and draft picks, well, I’d give it some thought on the idea that with him and w/o the picks our chance of going anywhere in post season does not look great.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I don’t think they’re necessarily haters, but somehow the draft is more exciting to them than the Super Bowl.
Or maybe its the idea of a team built to win in 2019 or 2020 now in cap hell with no draft assets and a QB (&LT) who's contract doesn't appear to fit the new window of opportunity.

Think about it , this team just went 4-12 with Watson putting up very good statistics and they are very limited in their ability to add talent to the team for next season when he only counts $15.94m against the cap and the following year he accounts for $40.4m in cap space.

The prospects for improving the team around him in the next two seasons are grim.
It's going to take a year or two to clear the books of the toxic contracts - Mercilus , Martin , Cunningham , McKinney , David Johnson , Cobb , Eric Murray and under performing players and time to accumulate draft picks to put any talent around Watson.

They'll have to dump another $24.46m in salary after next season just to accommodate his cap hit for 22 ... that after having to dump some ~$40m just to fill out the roster for 2021.

Really this has nothing to do with Watson and everything to do with the franchise not having any financial vision beyond 2019 & 2020. Even without the Covid economic issues they'd be in cap hell.


Where's the window to contend with Watson and where's that window to contend without him ?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I would NOT trade Watson but I would take 2021 to clear the decks of all those contracts I listed elsewhere. No better time than now to clean up that cap situation and prepare for 22 and beyond.
I understand. Makes perfect sense to me. But we know they won't. I'm anxious to see how they screw it up. Then hope like hell it works.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, & in the end the only thing that matters is that you have a dead cat (I do understand how stupid that sounds, but I couldn't stop myself).

Two years from now, I'm hoping to see a dead cat. A plethora of draft picks, tons of cap space, & a competitive team.
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
Well said. Plus, Watson knew about the GM possiblity of Caserio since last year. The team had tampering charges for us going after him last year. Why would he or anyone else not know that Caserio had been and was a top canidate for the position?

A true face in palm situation if you want to think he was "unaware and not consulted"
Look, I’m on the record for saying Watson had no business being part of the GM / Coach selection process, but that doesn’t invalidate his current gripe.

Ownership told him he was to be part of it and then proceeded to leave him out. And the whole consulting firm smokescreen? Yeah, Texans management has brought the entire pile of hate down on themselves without anyone else’s assistance.

The best we can hope for at this point is that Caserio is at least competent to fill the role and can patch things up (that aren’t really of his doing) with the best player on his roster. A good first step would be to do what every single other team looking for a HC has done... request an interview with Bienemy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So we should trade our franchise qb for a bunch of draft picks to use on finding a new franchise qb.

That’s why we don’t take you haters seriously. You are crazy
Due to lack of cap space or draft picks you are just going to waste your star QB's career, just like they have wasted AJ/JJ's career. If you're truly a DW4 fan you should be hoping for a trade.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don’t think they’re necessarily haters, but somehow the draft is more exciting to them than the Super Bowl.
This isn't the case for me.

I just acknowledge the gravity of the situation. The only way the situation changes is if Caserio is some kind of draft wizard that can find the Hill's/Kelce's in the 3-7 rds. To do this the Not Texans Wothy crap has to die and momma ain't gonna let this happen.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Look, I’m on the record for saying Watson had no business being part of the GM / Coach selection process, but that doesn’t invalidate his current gripe.

Ownership told him he was to be part of it and then proceeded to leave him out. And the whole consulting firm smokescreen? Yeah, Texans management has brought the entire pile of hate down on themselves without anyone else’s assistance.

The best we can hope for at this point is that Caserio is at least competent to fill the role and can patch things up (that aren’t really of his doing) with the best player on his roster. A good first step would be to do what every single other team looking for a HC has done... request an interview with Bienemy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DW4 said his piece and Cal decided to go in a different direction. How much more of a part of the process do you think DW4 should be?
 

michaelm

vox nihili
Due to lack of cap space or draft picks you are just going to waste your star QB's career, just like they have wasted AJ/JJ's career. If you're truly a DW4 fan you should be hoping for a trade.
Personally, I'm a Texans fan, and I think they have a better chance to win with DW than chasing another starting QB which might take years.
Caserio needs to earn his money, get creative and figure it out. Not take one huge step backwards in hopes that he can eventually take that step back at some point.
Even if they trade DW for a 1.1 pick, the odds are not very good that they will draft a QB of his caliber.
1.1s bust all the time. Imagine how far the team would be set back drafting a bust QB 1st overall
 

TripleTap

Dead Wood
As several others have said, we're wasting Watson on a team that can't help him win more games, and can't improve significantly through draft or trades in the next couple of years (prime years for Watson). On the other hand, if you get a slew of picks and a few players in trade for Watson, and a half-good QB, the Texans have a fair chance of improving considerably overall in the next few years.

Nobody loves to see Watson run around and make magic more than I do, but this is a team game and he make all the magic he wants and we still end up with this year's rotten record. Next year, if we're very lucky, Watson might win 6 games all by himself.

All I'm asking is for fair consideration of the options for improving the team overall. I'm not interested in finding another hero QB (though I'd be happy to have one if he fell into our laps), just somebody pretty damn good, good enough when paired with the 4 or 5 other picks or players we get via a trade (maybe more if we trade Watt, too; Watt played well this year (though nothing like his best years) and should bring a pretty high pick.

Not a hater, and I like seeing Watson do his magic, I'm just asking if it's best for the TEAM. See our record.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Personally, I'm a Texans fan, and I think they have a better chance to win with DW than chasing another starting QB which might take years.
Caserio needs to earn his money, get creative and figure it out. Not take one huge step backwards in hopes that he can eventually take that step back at some point.
Even if they trade DW for a 1.1 pick, the odds are not very good that they will draft a QB of his caliber.
1.1s bust all the time. Imagine how far the team would be set back drafting a bust QB 1st overall
We will have to agree to disagree.

The Texans wont win with DW4 because if he's all that you think he is, (I dont agree) they wont be able to put enough talent around him to win a championship. Unless they change the Not Texans Worthy crap. (Do you want this to happen?) Even then they probably wont be able to put talent around him because that contract will make the Texans non players in FA for the next 4-5 yrs. (Yes they will add some mid tier guys in FA but no differencemakers.)

They are currently in a lose- lose situation and trading DW4's the only way to have a chance to build a championship roster, even then there are no guarantees. Otherwise they will continue to be the mediocre franchise they've been since their inception.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If we can’t win with Watson we darn sure ain’t winning without him.
Depends on what they get in trade for him and if they hit on those raft picks. Another things for sure, with the current draft pick situation and the future cap situation with DW4 there will be no championships.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Another things for sure, with the current draft pick situation and the future cap situation with DW4 there will be no championships.
The future cap is not set in stone. Those future numbers mean next to nothing. If the team finds themselves in a situation where Watson’s cap is a problem they’ll renegotiate.

That’s too common in the NFL to say “never” concerning the cap two years out.

Maybe DW4 won’t negotiate. That’s possible. But it’s too far out to say one way or the other.

Two years is a long time in the NFL
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The future cap is not set in stone. Those future numbers mean next to nothing. If the team finds themselves in a situation where Watson’s cap is a problem they’ll renegotiate.

That’s too common in the NFL to say “never” concerning the cap two years out.

Maybe DW4 won’t negotiate. That’s possible. But it’s too far out to say one way or the other.

Two years is a long time in the NFL
It's very likely with the Covid and BLM the cap isn't what it was this yr and wont be in the next 4-5 yrs. To think otherwise you would have to be a true optimist.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Personally, I'm a Texans fan, and I think they have a better chance to win with DW than chasing another starting QB which might take years.
Caserio needs to earn his money, get creative and figure it out. Not take one huge step backwards in hopes that he can eventually take that step back at some point.
Even if they trade DW for a 1.1 pick, the odds are not very good that they will draft a QB of his caliber.
1.1s bust all the time. Imagine how far the team would be set back drafting a bust QB 1st overall
Actually the odds are pretty good that Justin Fields or Zach WIlson can be good as Watson sooner rather than later if obstacles that Dashaun had and has to deal with can be eliminated. 4 starters maybe 5 including a vet QB for Watson should be considered. This does not make me a hater of Dashaun. "get creative and figure it out" is not a plan. You also just can't see that a trade may not be a step back. See my thread Dashaun Watson's value and trades that have been proposed outside of Texas.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The future cap is not set in stone. Those future numbers mean next to nothing. If the team finds themselves in a situation where Watson’s cap is a problem they’ll renegotiate.

That’s too common in the NFL to say “never” concerning the cap two years out.

Maybe DW4 won’t negotiate. That’s possible. But it’s too far out to say one way or the other.

Two years is a long time in the NFL

One thing of note here - IF Watson is unhappy here and the team asked him to lower his cap figure , they would be adding years and money to that contract , It's unlikely a player who's unhappy with his team is going to commit to more years with that team meaning it would be nearly impossible under those circumstances to lower the cap figure.

(Notice the BIG IF , not a little one)
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Personally, I'm a Texans fan, and I think they have a better chance to win with DW than chasing another starting QB which might take years.
Caserio needs to earn his money, get creative and figure it out. Not take one huge step backwards in hopes that he can eventually take that step back at some point.
Even if they trade DW for a 1.1 pick, the odds are not very good that they will draft a QB of his caliber.
1.1s bust all the time. Imagine how far the team would be set back drafting a bust QB 1st overall

I feel similar in regards to Watson / the QB position.

But I do think they need to take a step back to take the eventual step forward and that step back is clearing the decks of all the bad contracts , eating the dead money all in one year , not spreading it out making the pain last longer than it has to.

If they don't do that , they are essentially limiting the potential of this team to mediocre at best .....
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Tennessee is another example. They brought in New HC and GM. And now look at them. Some fans has to stop it with the doom and gloom look. It’s old and outdated, time for a new look.
Isn't there a line about if you ignore history you're doomed to repeat history.

Why are you choosing to ignore history? Because you dont like what history tells you.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
One thing of note here - IF Watson is unhappy here and the team asked him to lower his cap figure , they would be adding years and money to that contract , It's unlikely a player who's unhappy with his team is going to commit to more years with that team meaning it would be nearly impossible under those circumstances to lower the cap figure.

(Notice the BIG IF , not a little one)
I try to keep it simple. Some people have a hard enough time discerning what is real & what is not.
 

TripleTap

Dead Wood
If we can’t win with Watson we darn sure ain’t winning without him.
Let's say we get 2 firsts and 2 seconds for Watson. Very conservative. Maybe a player we need to boot. And we get a first and third for Watt.
So now we've got, in the next two years: three firsts, three 2nds and 2 3rds.

You think with that haul we can't make the team a winner in two years?
 

ClemsonTexan

Waterboy
Goff is 9/19 with 155 yards passing. If Watson played to this level each week, the Texans would have at least 12 wins.

So no, Watson should not get a pass. Goff is beating the Seahawks. Last time Watson played the Seahawks, he lost. And if the Texans were playing the Seahawks right now, they'd definitely be losing.
 

Earl34

All Pro
Goff is 9/19 with 155 yards passing. If Watson played to this level each week, the Texans would have at least 12 wins.

So no, Watson should not get a pass. Goff is beating the Seahawks. Last time Watson played the Seahawks, he lost. And if the Texans were playing the Seahawks right now, they'd definitely be losing.
Rams defense had Wilson holding the ball and the OC never tried going to a short passing game. BOB would have been proud of that game plan.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Goff is 9/19 with 155 yards passing. If Watson played to this level each week, the Texans would have at least 12 wins.

So no, Watson should not get a pass. Goff is beating the Seahawks. Last time Watson played the Seahawks, he lost. And if the Texans were playing the Seahawks right now, they'd definitely be losing.
Running game and a top notch defense. Goff shouldn’t have been out there. One hit on that broken finger he just had surgery on and he’s out of here.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
I feel similar in regards to Watson / the QB position.

But I do think they need to take a step back to take the eventual step forward and that step back is clearing the decks of all the bad contracts , eating the dead money all in one year , not spreading it out making the pain last longer than it has to.

If they don't do that , they are essentially limiting the potential of this team to mediocre at best .....
I totally agree on taking that step back. I'm nowhere near knowledgeable on cap matters, so I can't say how to do it or if it's even possible, but I'd make every painful cut, trade and renegotiation I could in 2021 and just ride it out.
Like I said before, if there's any way possible to cut money below the cap this year, gut this thing and try to renegotiation DW so as much of his contract as possible is paid this year.

This is just my Madden level thought process, I admit. But I'd just rip the bandages off the 1,000 painful cuts OB put on this thing and shoot for 2022
 

SnakeEyes

Rookie
If they can’t recognize what they have in Watson it doesn’t matter how many picks they get.
That brings up the huge question. Is Watson maxed out? Is it as good as he is going to get? If so, you have to consider a trade if you are the GM or even the FO. Cal is not going to want the poster boy for his team to be all over social media saying stuff against the team. Plus, how much issue is he going to be in the locker room?

Keep it in mind that Carolina made the Super Bowl with Jake Delhome (sp) a solid D and good coaches. Watson is good but is he going to improve. It's been 4 years and he is still making mistakes they called out in college. Poor choices (reading the D) with the ball and holding it too long. Nobody can say that he can or can't win a SB. Just as much as they can't say our current backup QB can't win one.
 


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