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Deandre Hopkins, already number 2 all-time Texans offensive player ?

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Andre was the most technically sound route runner I have ever seen. That guy would make defenders look silly and would end up wide open.

Hopkins is the most talented catcher I have ever seen with superb body control.

Two different styles, both HOF worthy. Andre will always have a special place in our hearts because he was our first legit HOF type player on consistently bad teams. He had no mentor and had to pave his own way. Throw in his humble style and the beat down on Innegan (because he beat the f out of him) and he will be number 1 forever. The most NUK can do is tie him, and IMO he already has.

I have

1) Andre and Nuk
2) JJ Watt
3) Foster
4) Brown
No doubt Hopkins is elite and one of the top NFL WRs. But last week, a friend of mine asked me to watch the WRs and especially Hopkins on plays where Watson was being blitzed. It was disturbing to see that seldom would the WRs, most troubling as pertains to the supposedly savvy Hopkins, ever make a move to break route in order to help Watson. Hopkins, like the others would typically continue to complete his route, oblivious to the calamity left behind.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
Both guys have amazing talents. The question is who is using those talents in the most effective way? Understanding that we're comparing two all time greats, it's definitely picking nits.

My nit? TDs put points on the board. Hopkins has pulled in some TDs I don't think AJ necessarily would have, like the 50/50 ball this week

Tough call. I lean Hopkins through 93 games. We'll see how things stand at the end.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
If the Texans win.....I'd probably sit Hopkins for the final game. I would have D Thomas take the lead possibly making him a better weapon for the playoffs.
 
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Shishkabob

All Pro
No doubt Hopkins is elite and one of the top NFL WRs. But last week, a friend of mine asked me to watch the WRs and especially Hopkins on plays where Watson was being blitzed. It was disturbing to see that seldom would the WRs, most troubling as pertains to the supposedly savvy Hopkins, ever make a move to break route in order to help Watson. Hopkins, like the others would typically continue to complete his route, oblivious to the calamity left behind.
Yessir I really noticed this in the last Colts game. Hopkins lined up in the slot, his corner blitzed, Watson noticed it immediately as it came from the right he looked for Nuk to just cut off his route in the vacated space to get rid of the ball quickly but Nuk never did.

That's why I say our whole offense has a problem handling blitzes, not just Watson, not just the line, but every single position group. It's as almost if they don't practice it
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
DW4 could be a legit candidate for league MVP in 2 years. If that happens he will already be the greatest offensive player this franchise has had.
Hell he could be a legit MVP candidate next season. He was a legit MVP candidate his rookie season before his injury. I just said 5 years because I think to be an all time great you need to have sustained success for some time, not just a 2 or 3 year stretch.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Yessir I really noticed this in the last Colts game. Hopkins lined up in the slot, his corner blitzed, Watson noticed it immediately as it came from the right he looked for Nuk to just cut off his route in the vacated space to get rid of the ball quickly but Nuk never did.

That's why I say our whole offense has a problem handling blitzes, not just Watson, not just the line, but every single position group. It's as almost if they don't practice it
That could be an likely scenario............but with Hopkins long-time experience with his past QBs being unmercifully blitzed........NO EXCUSE!
 

txtechsean

Practice Squad
If the Texans win.....I'd probably sit Hopkins for the final game. I would have D Thomas take the lead possibly making him a better weapon for the playoffs.
why? what benefit does sitting Hopkins give you?

if extra rest is the argument, then play him and win the last game against the Jags, clinch the bye, and he can rest the following week.
 

txtechsean

Practice Squad
Yessir I really noticed this in the last Colts game. Hopkins lined up in the slot, his corner blitzed, Watson noticed it immediately as it came from the right he looked for Nuk to just cut off his route in the vacated space to get rid of the ball quickly but Nuk never did.

That's why I say our whole offense has a problem handling blitzes, not just Watson, not just the line, but every single position group. It's as almost if they don't practice it
This is one of those things though, that unless you're in the meeting rooms and you know what the sight adjustments and hot routes are supposed to be and who's meant to make adjustments when -- you can't reasonably place the blame on any one.

it's frustrating, because the TV angle picks up those nickel blitzers and so they seem obvious -- like hey there's a dude that just left the receiver, he's fast and coming to hit you. and they absolutely need to figure out how to deal with pressure from edge/secondary blitzers -- TE/RBs chipping on the way to the route, OL communication, better decisions by 4 all could improve I imagine -- but the last part:

you really think that "blitz protection" isn't practiced by an NFL team?

i think it's more likely the defense gets paid to make the offense look bad, and they do that sometimes.
 

txtechsean

Practice Squad
And if more damage is done?
...then he got hurt playing the most dangerous sport that's popular, which you pay him lots and lots of money to do?

you rest him, Jags win, you're playing next week as the 3 seed against the Titans. congratulations, you just blew the best shot this franchise has had at making the SB.

WE CONTROL OUR DESTINY AS A 2 SEED -- ITS ALL HANDS ON DECK TO GET THAT BYE. if you can't see that, i don't know what to tell you.

if the argument was they lose to the eagles, and the pats beat the bills so the Texans are back at 3 -- then by all means rest him. but for as long as HOU can skip right to the farthest we've ever gone in the playoffs by winning 2 regular season games, that's the optimal strategy.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
We don’t know what they’re coached to do.

If all of them are doing the same thing that screams coaching.
The player I saw breaking route was D. Thomas. The rest of the receivers are inexperienced for the most part, or play as if they are unaware of anything around them...........that screams players. That Hopkins is not doing it also screams the player..........not the coaching.
 

txtx

Waterboy
I definitely see DeAndre "Don't call me Deshaun" Hopkins as #1. Apart from route running, amazing hands and reach, and being clutch. He's a rare talent that defies belief and captures the imagination.

Watson has done that too and in a shorter amount of time, so they may swap #1 & #2 from now on. The even more awesome thing is how they excel on both ends of a play. It's often a double-star play when they connect!
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
The player I saw breaking route was D. Thomas. The rest of the receivers are inexperienced for the most part, or play as if they are unaware of anything around them...........that screams players. That Hopkins is not doing it also screams the player..........not the coaching.
Hopkins is not inexperienced.

And I don’t know if what you’re saying is true or not, but if denaryius (the only guy who hasn’t been here) is doing something different that screams coaching.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Hopkins is not inexperienced.

And I don’t know if what you’re saying is true or not, but if denaryius (the only guy who hasn’t been here) is doing something different that screams coaching.
That could be an likely scenario............but with Hopkins long-time experience with his past QBs being unmercifully blitzed........NO EXCUSE!
The point I was making was D Thomas and Hopkins are both experienced.............Thomas has learned his blitz responsibility expectations.........Hopkins has not. At this point in time both should have cutting their routes as a reflex reaction to blitz situations. Coaching cannot be blamed for such lack of what by now should be basic responses for both of them.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
...then he got hurt playing the most dangerous sport that's popular, which you pay him lots and lots of money to do?

you rest him, Jags win, you're playing next week as the 3 seed against the Titans. congratulations, you just blew the best shot this franchise has had at making the SB.

WE CONTROL OUR DESTINY AS A 2 SEED -- ITS ALL HANDS ON DECK TO GET THAT BYE. if you can't see that, i don't know what to tell you.

if the argument was they lose to the eagles, and the pats beat the bills so the Texans are back at 3 -- then by all means rest him. but for as long as HOU can skip right to the farthest we've ever gone in the playoffs by winning 2 regular season games, that's the optimal strategy.
The premise was that the Texans had won and clinched?
 

txtechsean

Practice Squad
The premise was that the Texans had won and clinched?
any scenarios where we win and clinch the two seed against the Eagles would leave us in contention for the 1 seed still and home field throughout the playoffs. there's no reason, if you're competitive, to sit him for the finale. if he's injured, he should sit. if he's cleared by a doctor, he should play.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
any scenarios where we win and clinch the two seed against the Eagles would leave us in contention for the 1 seed still and home field throughout the playoffs. there's no reason, if you're competitive, to sit him for the finale. if he's injured, he should sit. if he's cleared by a doctor, he should play.
That's not true.. but I'm not gonna argue with ya over a suubjective matter as that. Enjoy your opinion even you're wrong
 

txtechsean

Practice Squad
That's not true.. but I'm not gonna argue with ya over a suubjective matter as that. Enjoy your opinion even you're wrong
even if:

Chargers win, Chiefs win, Texans win
Pats lose

the 1 is still in play if they both the AFCW teams lose week 17, with a Texans win.

math isn't subjective
 

txtechsean

Practice Squad
There is one scenario that the Texans can win #1... new math is amazing
i mean... it's right. there's nothing new about it. i've been playing with the playoff machine for the last 3 weeks, and this is what it's been building to. you said "my opinion's wrong" -- it's not opinion man, it's simple numbers.

and since this is what i was replying to in the first place: "If the Texans win.....I'd probably sit Hopkins for the final game."

the point is, if you beat the Eagles, you're guaranteed to have something to play for still.

if you meant that my opinion was you should play your best players if there's still something to gain for your team if you win.... yeah, I'll own that. if you're not playing your best players when you winning the game gains you something, what's the point of playing at all?
 
i mean... it's right. there's nothing new about it. i've been playing with the playoff machine for the last 3 weeks, and this is what it's been building to. you said "my opinion's wrong" -- it's not opinion man, it's simple numbers.

and since this is what i was replying to in the first place: "If the Texans win.....I'd probably sit Hopkins for the final game."

the point is, if you beat the Eagles, you're guaranteed to have something to play for still.

if you meant that my opinion was you should play your best players if there's still something to gain for your team if you win.... yeah, I'll own that. if you're not playing your best players when you winning the game gains you something, what's the point of playing at all?
Not going to jump to much into this argument but just as a heads up if that's the ESPN playoff machine you are talking about you might want to take it with a grain of salt. It was mentioned a couple of weeks back that something in the way it is calculating is wrong. You are right that math is math but if a machine is programmed to think 2+2 = 5 then that's what it will report every time no matter how many people tell it that it equals 4.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
No doubt Hopkins is elite and one of the top NFL WRs. But last week, a friend of mine asked me to watch the WRs and especially Hopkins on plays where Watson was being blitzed. It was disturbing to see that seldom would the WRs, most troubling as pertains to the supposedly savvy Hopkins, ever make a move to break route in order to help Watson. Hopkins, like the others would typically continue to complete his route, oblivious to the calamity left behind.
It's a problem. That's obvious. Assessing blame is the difficult part. The QB has to check into those hot routes. At least with a hand signal. Is that happening? Hopkins can't check into a route without Watson being on the same page.

What? No mention of Brock Osweiller in this conversation?
He was no Brian Hoyer.

 

michaelm

vox nihili
One thing I've said a few times before but hasn't ever gotten a response is that Nuk is probably the best I've ever seen at pushing off without drawing an offensive pass interfere call
He pushes off on a regular basis but is "just barely" subtle enough to keep the flags in the refs pockets
 

txtechsean

Practice Squad
One thing I've said a few times before but hasn't ever gotten a response is that Nuk is probably the best I've ever seen at pushing off without drawing an offensive pass interfere call
He pushes off on a regular basis but is "just barely" subtle enough to keep the flags in the refs pockets
his ability to create space in a phone booth, combined with his ungodly hand strength makes him the best receiver in football at the moment.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
a friend of mine asked me to watch the WRs and especially Hopkins on plays where Watson was being blitzed. It was disturbing to see that seldom would the WRs, most troubling as pertains to the supposedly savvy Hopkins, ever make a move to break route in order to help Watson.
Which is one of the main reason I believe our offensive woes are largely due to what Watson sees & what he communicates from the Line.

I understand the talent deficit. But that doesn't explain what we saw.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If the Texans win.....I'd probably sit Hopkins for the final game. I would have D Thomas take the lead possibly making him a better weapon for the playoffs.
Eh... Watson is the X, Thomas is the Y. Putting Thomas in Hopkin's spot doesn't help him become more productive from the Y spot.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This is one of those things though, that unless you're in the meeting rooms and you know what the sight adjustments and hot routes are supposed to be and who's meant to make adjustments when -- you can't reasonably place the blame on any one.

it's frustrating, because the TV angle picks up those nickel blitzers and so they seem obvious -- like hey there's a dude that just left the receiver, he's fast and coming to hit you. and they absolutely need to figure out how to deal with pressure from edge/secondary blitzers -- TE/RBs chipping on the way to the route, OL communication, better decisions by 4 all could improve I imagine -- but the last part:

you really think that "blitz protection" isn't practiced by an NFL team?

i think it's more likely the defense gets paid to make the offense look bad, and they do that sometimes.
Agreed. For all we know Hopkins believed Watson accounted for that guy in his call & Hops responsibility was to pull that safety to him to open up the lane for the hot route.

It's hard for us to say.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Jaguars CB Jalen Ramsey: Texans’ Hopkins, Giants’ Beckham ‘1A and 1B’ as top receivers
His Pro Bowl season began with a showdown against one of the NFL’s top receivers. It will end with more of the same.

Ahead of the Jaguars’ finale Sunday at Houston, Jaguars cornerback Jalen Ramsey declared the Texans’ DeAndre Hopkins and the New York Giants’ Odell Beckham Jr. his toughest assignments this year.

“He’s No. 1,” Ramsey said when asked about Hopkins. “Him and Odell. They are probably 1A and 1B.”

Ramsey and Beckham squared off in Week 1, and the third-year cornerback was not quite at his best. Beckham had 11 catches (on 15 targets) for 111 yards and likely could have had a bigger day if not for some misfires by quarterback Eli Manning.

However, aside from a 68-yard touchdown run by rookie tailback Saquon Barkley, the Jaguars kept the Giants’ offense from establishing a rhythm. They won 20-15 at the Meadowlands, part of a 3-1 start to the season.

Ramsey and Hopkins met for the first time this season in Week 7. The results were mixed in a 20-7 Texans win, part of the Jaguars’ season-ruining seven-game losing streak. Hopkins finished with three catches (on eight targets) for 50 yards but had a 10-yard touchdown in the third quarter to blow open the game.

Hopkins’ 50 yards was his second-lowest output this season; he had four catches for 36 yards and a score in a Week 14 loss to Indianapolis. He did have an outstanding, one-handed catch over Ramsey that went for 31 yards.

“He had like three receptions for 50 yards, one long catch, 38 yards or something like that,” Ramsey said. “But he had a touchdown and that was a big game-changer for their team and ours.”https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20181227/jaguars-cb-jalen-ramsey-texans-hopkins-giants-beckham-1a-and-1b-as-top-receivers
 

Shishkabob

All Pro
This is one of those things though, that unless you're in the meeting rooms and you know what the sight adjustments and hot routes are supposed to be and who's meant to make adjustments when -- you can't reasonably place the blame on any one.

it's frustrating, because the TV angle picks up those nickel blitzers and so they seem obvious -- like hey there's a dude that just left the receiver, he's fast and coming to hit you. and they absolutely need to figure out how to deal with pressure from edge/secondary blitzers -- TE/RBs chipping on the way to the route, OL communication, better decisions by 4 all could improve I imagine -- but the last part:

you really think that "blitz protection" isn't practiced by an NFL team?

i think it's more likely the defense gets paid to make the offense look bad, and they do that sometimes.
No that was a joke made, because of how poorly we have been against the blitz this season. On every position on offense, from OL to rb to te, to wr, and to our QB they are just flat out bad at recognizing and picking it up.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
No that was a joke made, because of how poorly we have been against the blitz this season. On every position on offense, from OL to rb to te, to wr, and to our QB they are just flat out bad at recognizing and picking it up.
And yet Watson has one of the highest ratings in the league when pressured.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
At this point in Texans history, A.J. and Nuk are clearly 1A and 1B. Maybe Deshaun will have a career that challenges that at some point.

Who is 1A and 1B is subjective and I could make a case for either player. Both are HoF talents.
 
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thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
No that was a joke made, because of how poorly we have been against the blitz this season. On every position on offense, from OL to rb to te, to wr, and to our QB they are just flat out bad at recognizing and picking it up.
And yet Watson has one of the highest ratings in the league when pressured.
Funny how both are true. Hopefully Brian Gaine (even though he's a white man (shot at steelbtexan's assertion)) will fix those issues & Watson will perform even better without having to overcome so many mistakes.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Yuuup. And guess who drafted him? Satan himself! LOL .. looking at his combine numbers it was a PHENOMENAL job by Rick Smith to pluck Hopkins out of that draft in that selection. Faith in his scouts and in his process. Nabbed a hall of famer at pick 27 insane.
Not a particularly popular pick around here either (Hopkins ran a 4.57). Quite a few wanted Cordarrelle Patterson (4.44) or Justin Hunter (4.42) if a WR was going to be picked there.
 


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