DC and VY from a coach point of view

[expwrlifter]

Hey,

can someone tell me how the press conference went yesterday. I live in Dallas and had to read about the horrible news that DC got his extension. Another sad day for the Texans. ... Did anyone ask the question about VY? And before I get the oh.. DC doenst have this and he doesnt have this... Well guys let inform of you something. I am a football coach by profession and I watched DC in action even before he touched the field as a Texan when he was at FSU.. Even when I learned the Texans were going to draft him I questioned that decision, now I really dont understand why they are doing what they are doing again. I hate to inform you but VY is a better player not just as a QB but as a player overall. I actually have seen him play in person and must say he is a natural. There is a saying "that no matter what sport you play if you are an athlete you will adjust to it and produce". Guys its a no brainer here DC is not a great QB and neither is VY at the Pro Level but give him his chance he has excelled in the other levels.. Let him sit and learn. ( Which is not bad considering you are going to pay RB the same amount if you draft him first and he wont get the same amount of touches that VY will get when he gets his turn) You are going to pay RB tons of money to get 15 carries a game and play in a rotation, what sense does that make? RB is more like a Marshall Faulk guy. He isnt a every down back and RB has been supspect to pass blocking. If he does go out in the slot or as a third receiver the NFL secondary will be able to bang him at the line or as we call combo him in cover 2 which makes it hard for him to get the ball. If he tries to go inside the LBS will hit him harder than he is felt before because he is not used to getting hit head on. Dont get me wrong I think RB is a great player but he doenst scare me as much as VY, because he (RB) can be contained as one guy where VY offers the pass as well as the run. You will hear people say you cant run the option in the NFL which is true, but its not the option he will need its the versatility he brings to the table. As a LB you cant come running at him because of his height he can drop it over your head to a Running Back and if you wait too long to attack him he will get yards on you because of his long strides. It just makes you a little more worried because you have to pick your poison. At least VY will learn and then touch the ball alot more than that. DC is in a no win situation all the way around. He will now have to be a superstar QB to live up to the extension. For all you VY haters you have no idea what you will be missing if he does not come to Houston. Again being a coach by profession having to prepare for him is harder than preparing for DC.. He is a dual threat and DC is not. It takes more time to prepare as well as change schemes for him. Its not as easy as you people think to prepare for teams each week. Alot of time goes into the games and its not XBOX or MADDEN, its real out there. And again VY is more of a threat than DC will ever be. Overall VY is just harder to prepare for and dont worry I dont like UT but VY just makes people around him better, something DC has never done in his four years. I know I will get plenty of feedback on this but trust me on this one... I hope the Texans have something up there sleeve because its not looking good ..... AGAIN

 

[Tale Gator]

For the love of God -- paragraphs my man - paragraphs...

 

[Darporini]

Did anyone ask the question about VY?AGAIN

Bob McNair said he was keeping all options open. He even alluded to San Diego's situation of having two top QBs (Brees and Rivers). So, who knows what is going to happen at the end of April!!

 

[expwrlifter]

sorry new to the posting..

 

[bigTEXan8]

Oh boy...
Another "I hate DC, VY can do no wrong" thread. I thought they were starting to die down, but silly me, I was wrong. :brickwall

 

[expwrlifter]

No I dont hate DC as a person I just dont like him as our QB... he is not capable of being what you people think he will be. He didnt play very many good teams in college and had great stats but so did my college QB who plays in the league now (Tim Rattay). Pretty similiar stats actually. They even played in the same conference. (WAC).. Heck Timmy Chang played in the WAC and got all those records last year.. A

And as for VY he can do wrong and will when he first starts out. If you read in the post it states that he will learn like he did in HS and colllege. All players will adapt to there situation, and DC has had four years and still hasnt. He is not a horrible player (DC) I just think he needs a new start and Houston will not be the place because he will be under the microscope. Its not fair to him..

 

[Nighthawk]

There is a saying "that no matter what sport you play if you are an athlete you will adjust to it and produce".

Good post. Hard to understand the Young-haters here. They seem to have the man-crush problem on Carr and any mention of replacing him with a better player riles them up. I'll be very sorry to see VY go to the Titans, but he will be a great player to watch in furture years.

 

[texan279]

Good post. Hard to understand the Young-haters here. They seem to have the man-crush problem on Carr and any mention of replacing him with a better player riles them up. I'll be very sorry to see VY go to the Titans, but he will be a great player to watch in furture years.

How can you say Young is a better player than Carr when Young hasn't even stepped foot onto an NFL field?

 

[Wolf]

If RB or VY is so great.. well they ought to "help" this team alot IF we try to trade down.. we should command a lot of picks for one of them. If TJ can net us an extra 3rd by moving down last year, I wonder what we could get for RB and VY moving off of the top spot



FTR...I think both guys (RB/VY) are great athletes, but this team needs so such help on both sides of the ball that we all wouldn't have thought that 4 years later we are still looking for depth.

 

[expwrlifter]

I agree with you on that.. what might make more sense if RB is a lock then we can trade down and get an extra pick and then probably choose 3rd or 4th.. I hear NO wants ML and the NYJ want RB so we can pick up another pick and then still get VY.

 

[bigTEXan8]

No I dont hate DC as a person I just 1. dont like him as our QB... he is not capable of being what you people think he will be. He 2. didnt play very many good teams in college and had great stats but so did my college QB who plays in the league now (Tim Rattay). Pretty similiar stats actually. They even played in the same conference. (WAC).. Heck Timmy Chang played in the WAC and got all those records last year.. A

And as for VY he can do wrong and will when he first starts out. If you read in the post it states that he will learn like he did in HS and colllege. All players will adapt to there situation, and DC has had four years and still hasnt. He is not a horrible player (DC) 3. I just think he needs a new start and Houston will not be the place because he will be under the microscope. Its not fair to him..

1. That's what I'm talking about...sorry.

2. Niether did VY this year...he played in the overrated Big 12...OOOHHH.

3. I agree and disagree with you at the same time. I think that maybe a fresh start for DC would be a good thing, and tha'ts the part I agree with you with. But at the same time, is it wise to get rid of a player you have no clue about, which is what the Texans have in Carr? That's where I disagree. Also, no matter where DC plays, he'll always be under a microscope. Every player is under a microscope, that's how they keep or don't keep their job.

 

[Wolf]

If we trade down and gain an extra pick next season.. I'd like to have this guy.(sorry for the highjack) if I am not mistaken he is like 6'2 220 lbs or so and runs 4.4

http://www.adpeterson.com/index.html


back to topic.. problem I have with RB is, yes he is a homerun hit, yet if we can't get DD enough push to get the 3rd and 1's or on the goal line get that extra yard. How is Bush going to do it???

 

[LBC_Justin]

Hey,

can someone tell me how the press conference went yesterday. I live in Dallas and had to read about the horrible news that DC got his extension. Another sad day for the Texans. ... Did anyone ask the question about VY? And before I get the oh.. DC doenst have this and he doesnt have this... Well guys let inform of you something. 1. I am a football coach by profession and I watched DC in action even before he touched the field as a Texan when he was at FSU.. Even when I learned the Texans were going to draft him I questioned that decision, now I really dont understand why they are doing what they are doing again. I hate to inform you but VY is a better player not just as a QB but as a player overall. I actually have seen him play in person and must say he is a natural. There is a saying "that no matter what sport you play if you are an athlete you will adjust to it and produce". Guys its a no brainer here DC is not a great QB and neither is VY at the Pro Level but give him his chance he has excelled in the other levels.. Let him sit and learn. ( 2. Which is not bad considering you are going to pay RB the same amount if you draft him first and he wont get the same amount of touches that VY will get when he gets his turn) You are going to pay RB tons of money to get 15 carries a game and play in a rotation, what sense does that make? 3. RB is more like a Marshall Faulk guy. He isnt a every down back and RB has been supspect to pass blocking. If he does go out in the slot or as a third receiver the NFL secondary will be able to bang him at the line or as we call combo him in cover 2 which makes it hard for him to get the ball. If he tries to go inside the LBS will hit him harder than he is felt before because he is not used to getting hit head on. Dont get me wrong I think RB is a great player but he doenst scare me as much as VY, because he (RB) can be contained as one guy where VY offers the pass as well as the run. You will hear people say you cant run the option in the NFL which is true, but its not the option he will need its the versatility he brings to the table. As a LB you cant come running at him because of his height he can drop it over your head to a Running Back and if you wait too long to attack him he will get yards on you because of his long strides. It just makes you a little more worried because you have to pick your poison. At least VY will learn and then touch the ball alot more than that. DC is in a no win situation all the way around. He will now have to be a superstar QB to live up to the extension. 4. For all you VY haters you have no idea what you will be missing if he does not come to Houston. Again being a coach by profession having to prepare for him is harder than preparing for DC.. 5. He is a dual threat and DC is not. It takes more time to prepare as well as change schemes for him. Its not as easy as you people think to prepare for teams each week. Alot of time goes into the games and its not XBOX or MADDEN, its real out there. 6. And again VY is more of a threat than DC will ever be. Overall VY is just harder to prepare for and 7. dont worry I dont like UT but VY just makes people around him better, something DC has never done in his four years. I know I will get plenty of feedback on this but trust me on this one... I hope the Texans have something up there sleeve because its not looking good ..... AGAIN

Don't sell Carr short and don't over hype VY just yet.

1. Did you see David Carr's college stats they were amazing. He was the fastest QB, the strongest QB, had the best arm in the draft.

2. Running Backs don't get Quarterback money. Regardless of what position they are drafted in.

3. Marshal Faulk is an NFL MVP, took his team to TWO Superbowls (won 1), and was a big part of the his team being the #1 offense for three straight years. (If Reggie Bush is like that.....I'll take him in a heart beat.)

4. We also don't know what we are getting. No one knows how Vince Young will do in the NFL. He is a unique talent and is going to be asked to do A LOT of things he rarely or has NEVER done before. He is there for a Big Risk!! He is a great pick with the #3, #4 or #5 pick. But is not worth the #1 or #2 pick. Otherwise you would hear about how he is going to the Saints and not to the Titians.

5. Michael Vick and Michael Brooks are the only two QBs that are faster than David Carr currently starting in the NFL. You right DC is not as big of a dual threat as VY or those other two guys but the guy has wheels. You could even argue that VY isn't a great of a passer so he isn't that much of a dual threat. Yes he can pass but if you really watched him play his passing got results but they didn't look pretty.

6. The problem with a running QB is they only get slower as they get older. They are more likely to get injured. VY is a good passer but based on his passing ability alone he is not a Top QB prospect. Sorry.

7. I love UT. I even went to the Rosebowl. It was awesome.

GO TEXANS.

 

[texarg]

How can you say Young is a better player than Carr when Young hasn't even stepped foot onto an NFL field?

excelente question.

 

[stevo3883]

2. Niether did VY this year...he played in the overrated Big 12...OOOHHH.

.

Vince played and beat 2 teams in the top 4. including usc with a 34 game winning streak. wtf are you talking about trying to compare their college comp? did Carr even play a ranked team? did he win?

 

[Wolf]

I thought fresno went on a run as "giant killers" on Carrs last season.. I maybe wrong though

 

[Texans86]

Vince played and beat 2 teams in the top 4. including usc with a 34 game winning streak. wtf are you talking about trying to compare their college comp? did Carr even play a ranked team? did he win?

Yes Texas beat two of the top four teams this year (two of the best games I've ever seen. two hundred college kids in a dark room watching Vince toss a touchdown with 2 minutes left. Wow) However, no one can deny that the Big 12 had a bad season. OU was not as dominant as in the past for most of the season, and A&M got off to a bad start. Baylor and OSU weren't great either. The Big 12 was just weaker than is has been in recent years. Next year I expect OU and A&M to be back to normal, along with Baylor improving under their Moriss. But yea, this year, the Big 12 wasn't up to par.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I am a football coach by profession

Uh, yeah...

 

[Jack Bauer]

if we can't get DD enough push to get the 3rd and 1's or on the goal line get that extra yard. How is Bush going to do it???

Why do people think we have a problem running the ball? Our offensive line is effective at run blocking. We do not have a problem running the ball. Kubiak likes using RBC and having a three-headed monster in Bush, DD and Morency is a good thing.

 

[stevo3883]

Yes Texas beat two of the top four teams this year (two of the best games I've ever seen. two hundred college kids in a dark room watching Vince toss a touchdown with 2 minutes left. Wow) However, no one can deny that the Big 12 had a bad season. OU was not as dominant as in the past for most of the season, and A&M got off to a bad start. Baylor and OSU weren't great either. The Big 12 was just weaker than is has been in recent years. Next year I expect OU and A&M to be back to normal, along with Baylor improving under their Moriss. But yea, this year, the Big 12 wasn't up to par.

yeah, but trying to act like VY got his numbers against a bunch of nobodies is very very unfair to vince. He had fantastic games against 2 of the best teams in the country, both on the road.

 

[Texans86]

yeah, but trying to act like VY got his numbers against a bunch of nobodies is very very unfair to vince. He had fantastic games against 2 of the best teams in the country, both on the road.

No doubt. I attend the University and am very proud of his accomplishments. Considering he sat out a total of nearly 2 games because we were ahead by so much in the 4th quarter all season does give leverage to his stats. I simply was expanding on an arguement that started:

Person 1: Carr didn't play anyone his senior season, that's why his stats were inflated.
Person 2: The Big 12 is was an overrated division, so Vince's stats are also inflated.

I was simply talking about the conference this year, not anything about VY.

 

[Wolf]

Why do people think we have a problem running the ball? Our offensive line is effective at run blocking. We do not have a problem running the ball. Kubiak likes using RBC and having a three-headed monster in Bush, DD and Morency is a good thing.

we can run the ball but not on shortage situations

 

[bigTEXan8]

No doubt. I attend the University and am very proud of his accomplishments. Considering he sat out a total of nearly 2 games because we were ahead by so much in the 4th quarter all season does give leverage to his stats. I simply was expanding on an arguement that started:

Person 1: Carr didn't play anyone his senior season, that's why his stats were inflated.
Person 2: The Big 12 is was an overrated division, so Vince's stats are also inflated.

I was simply talking about the conference this year, not anything about VY.

Carr and the Bulldogs beat Wisconson, Oregon St., and Colorado that year. All were ranked in the top 25 when the 'Dogs played them. So no, they did play somebody.

 

[Jack Bauer]

yeah, but trying to act like VY got his numbers against a bunch of nobodies is very very unfair to vince. He had fantastic games against 2 of the best teams in the country, both on the road.

I have to put a disclaimer in here everytime - I think Vince will excel in the NFL, but Vince got his numbers against a good Ohio State defense and a very average USC defense.

 

[stevo3883]

4. We also don't know what we are getting. No one knows how Vince Young will do in the NFL. He is a unique talent and is going to be asked to do A LOT of things he rarely or has NEVER done before. He is there for a Big Risk!! He is a great pick with the #3, #4 or #5 pick. But is not worth the #1 or #2 pick. Otherwise you would hear about how he is going to the Saints and not to the Titians. like what? what is he going to be asked to do he has never done before?? punt the ball? we have covered why the saints wouldnt take him, they have weapons ready and just need a basic pocket qb to get the ball to these weapons

5. Michael Vick and Michael Brooks are the only two QBs that are faster than David Carr currently starting in the NFL. You right DC is not as big of a dual threat as VY or those other two guys but the guy has wheels. You could even argue that VY isn't a great of a passer so he isn't that much of a dual threat. Yes he can pass but if you really watched him play his passing got results but they didn't look pretty. ok carr is a good athlete but he is not the 3rd fasest in the league, thats ridiculous. Culpepper, McNabb, Mcnair, Vick, Brooks, Plummer(4.6), josh McCown(4.59) are all faster than Carr and his 4.67 40. just because they dont run and choose to pass doesnt mean they arent as fast or faster. and vince isnt really a dual-threat? what? hes the only 3000/1000 qb in NCAA history- ie the most complete dual-threat qb EVER.. you're obviously a texas fan with all of these constant disses on his game...

6. The problem with a running QB is they only get slower as they get older. They are more likely to get injured. VY is a good passer but based on his passing ability alone he is not a Top QB prospect. Sorry. they are not more likely to get injured. running can save you from injury. its a lot worse to be hit blindisde in the pocket than tackled while scrambling. VY put up passing numbers equal to leinart, yet you say he can't pass, right....

7. I love UT. I even went to the Rosebowl. It was awesome.sure you are, thats why you constantly degrade vy's skills. calling him a run-only qb who cant pass... right

GO TEXANS.i can agree with that

not so good

 

[stevo3883]

I have to put a disclaimer in here everytime - I think Vince will excel in the NFL, but Vince got his numbers against a good Ohio State defense and a very average USC defense.

osu had arguably the best defense in the nation.

and before the rose bowl USC had "the most underrated D in the nation" and once Vince torches them for his 2nd best game of the year, they are average. The defense had a nfl-coach w/1 month to plan for VY, they also led the nation in forced turnovers, and vince didnt turn it over once.

 

[Texans86]

Carr and the Bulldogs beat Wisconson, Oregon St., and Colorado that year. All were ranked in the top 25 when the 'Dogs played them. So no, they did play somebody.

As I stated in the post, I was just adding to another discussion in this thread. One person says one thing. Another person says another thing. I add my two cents. And we all go home happy. I don't know much about Carr's opponents his senior year, I just know he had a lot of touchdowns, only a few ints, and a rocket for an arm.

 

[stevo3883]

Carr and the Bulldogs beat Wisconson, Oregon St., and Colorado that year. All were ranked in the top 25 when the 'Dogs played them. So no, they did play somebody.

did they finish ranked?

it doesnt matter if they were ranked when they played... they could start ranked top 25 and lost 10 games, thats not a good team.

 

[Jack Bauer]

osu had arguably the best defense in the nation.

and before the rose bowl USC had "the most underrated D in the nation" and once Vince torches them for his 2nd best game of the year, they are average. The defense had a nfl-coach w/1 month to plan for VY, they also led the nation in forced turnovers, and vince didnt turn it over once.

I said OSU had a good defense. Just because I don't sensationalize like everyone else seems to, doesn't mean you can argue about it. Fact: USC had the 39th ranked defense in the country and Fresno State torched them for 42 points. Should we draft a Fresno State player with the first pick in the draft???

 

[Jack Bauer]

did they finish ranked?

it doesnt matter if they were ranked when they played... they could start ranked top 25 and lost 10 games, thats not a good team.

When Texas played Ohio State they should NOT have been a top 25 team. They were only ranked as high as they were because of PRESEASON rankings. It was only later in the season that they started playing like a top 10 team. So should we discount that victory?

 

[Sportsfan]

How can you say Young is a better player than Carr when Young hasn't even stepped foot onto an NFL field?

Owned.

 

[Wolf]

on that note.. lets take Peyton Mannings stats and put an asterisk by it.. because he inflated his stats (and the Colts) for playing us twice a year and heck he had to play the Titans twice a year..

seriously.. what is funny is any argument about VY or RB ... turns into a "didn't play anyone"

when can we agree they were really good college football players that in the right system can flourish at the NFL level

As much as Carr bashing goes.. why can't he succeed in Kubiaks system? Why don't we give him a chance because Capers system had bad results with 2 expansion QB's.. Well at least Carr (that we know of) didn't take up drinking and he has had it worse than what Collins had..

oh yeah and Fangio's system did wonders for Foley.

 

[Maddict5]

Hey,

can someone tell me how the press conference went yesterday. I live in Dallas and had to read about the horrible news that DC got his extension. Another sad day for the Texans. ... Did anyone ask the question about VY? And before I get the oh.. DC doenst have this and he doesnt have this... Well guys let inform of you something. I am a football coach by profession and I watched DC in action even before he touched the field as a Texan when he was at FSU.. Even when I learned the Texans were going to draft him I questioned that decision, now I really dont understand why they are doing what they are doing again. I hate to inform you but VY is a better player not just as a QB but as a player overall

What? pee-wee footbal. seriously though i just read the part ive quoted and stopped cos when carr was coming out he was a unanomous pick for us (although peppers was good we needed a qb and he was the best 1 there) so why did you question it. that makes no sense. No1 can say VY is a better qb-they can next year if he throws 3000+ yards and generally looks amazing.and if hes soooooo great why is it generally considered that he wont be the first qb taken so thats my opinion and I should know im a NFL head coach-what? seriously i am

 

[stevo3883]

When Texas played Ohio State they should NOT have been a top 25 team. They were only ranked as high as they were because of PRESEASON rankings. It was only later in the season that they started playing like a top 10 team. So should we discount that victory?

are you serious?

they started ranked 5th, and ended up 4th. and you want to DISCOUNT Texas' victory over them.

most ridiculous thing I have ever seen, makes absolutely no sense.

 

[bigTEXan8]

did they finish ranked?

it doesnt matter if they were ranked when they played... they could start ranked top 25 and lost 10 games, thats not a good team.

I believe WISC and OR St. were...dunno about COL. I'll see if I can find something.

 

[expwrlifter]

You were impressed with Carr coming out of college... are you serious? Did you see any of his games? And to answer your question yes I am a coach and no not a pee wee coach. I actually teach as well as coach so I spend alot more time working then typing on this board like some of you that continue to bash VY and want DC. You VY haters have a lot of hatered toward him which I cant figure out. I dont have any hate toward DC just stating he needs a new start because he will be watched even more closely now... He will get booed second guessed, its endless... I even said it wasnt fair for him..

And if you know a coach you should know that there is alot of time put into a weeks game .. but of course you know that because you are probably a pee wee coach's wife...

Whats sad is this board turns into a punching bag among the posters because everyone has different views on the issue. Most of the people from the WC love DC and they have a right too, same as the people who reside in Houston want VY.. only makes sense. Heck DC even stated he understands why people want VY.. You posters shouldnt be upset or bash on people of houston because they want there hometown guy.. You should be happy for them that they want someone from there city and not trying to move them out.. Its rare for this city to have someone like this take the national spotlight.

It took the astros almost twenty years to get there hometown guy while he posted Cy Young numbers everywhere else. People should quit taking stabs at each other and try to understand if you had a guy from your hometown wanting to come home you would be excited too. All the people are doing is trying to get their voices heard to the people who make the decisions. Because the last four years they havent and you seen where it has got us.:brickwall

 

[sprtsfanatic]

You were impressed with Carr coming out of college... are you serious? Did you see any of his games? And to answer your question yes I am a coach and no not a pee wee coach. I actually teach as well as coach so I spend alot more time working then typing on this board like some of you that continue to bash VY and want DC. You VY haters have a lot of hatered toward him which I cant figure out. I dont have any hate toward DC just stating he needs a new start because he will be watched even more closely now... He will get booed second guessed, its endless... I even said it wasnt fair for him..

And if you know a coach you should know that there is alot of time put into a weeks game .. but of course you know that because you are probably a pee wee coach's wife...

Whats sad is this board turns into a punching bag among the posters because everyone has different views on the issue. Most of the people from the WC love DC and they have a right too, same as the people who reside in Houston want VY.. only makes sense. Heck DC even stated he understands why people want VY.. You posters shouldnt be upset or bash on people of houston because they want there hometown guy.. You should be happy for them that they want someone from there city and not trying to move them out.. Its rare for this city to have someone like this take the national spotlight.

It took the astros almost twenty years to get there hometown guy while he posted Cy Young numbers everywhere else. People should quit taking stabs at each other and try to understand if you had a guy from your hometown wanting to come home you would be excited too. All the people are doing is trying to get their voices heard to the people who make the decisions. Because the last four years they havent and you seen where it has got us.:brickwall

AMEN!

 

[dat_boy_yec]

You were impressed with Carr coming out of college... are you serious? Did you see any of his games? And to answer your question yes I am a coach and no not a pee wee coach. I actually teach as well as coach so I spend alot more time working then typing on this board like some of you that continue to bash VY and want DC. 1You VY haters have a lot of hatered toward him which I cant figure out. I dont have any hate toward DC 2just stating he needs a new start because he will be watched even more closely now... He will get booed second guessed, its endless... I even said it wasnt fair for him..

And if you know a coach you should know that there is alot of time put into a weeks game .. but of course you know that because you are probably a pee wee coach's wife...

Whats sad is this board turns into a punching bag among the posters because everyone has different views on the issue. Most of the people from the WC love DC and they have a right too, same as the people who reside in Houston want VY.. only makes sense. Heck DC even stated he understands why people want VY.. You posters shouldnt be upset or bash on people of houston because they want there hometown guy.. You should be happy for them that they want someone from there city and not trying to move them out.. 3 Its rare for this city to have someone like this take the national spotlight.

It took the astros almost twenty years to get there hometown guy while he posted Cy Young numbers everywhere else. People should quit taking stabs at each other and try to understand if you had a guy from your hometown wanting to come home you would be excited too. All the people are doing is trying to get their voices heard to the people who make the decisions. Because the last four years they havent and you seen where it has got us.:brickwall

1. I am starting to hate VY because everybody is blowing him out of proportion. All I see on these boards now are VY threads. Nothing major about Free Agency, or what Free Agents we should sign. It's all about how Young can do no wrong. Well guess what he is just a player with flaws and imperfections just like every other player.

2. Carr is getting a fresh start, as far as the playcalling goes and people that will be surrounding him. That should be as fresh a start as anybody needs. You know who will be the ones who don't give him the fresh start. VY fans, not saying all of them, but those who will resent the team if their player isn't taken. To say he will be under scrutiny is a joke because he is and always has been under scrutiny.

3. All the big names come from somewhere and more often than not that place has a team they could go to. The Rockets could have had Studemaire or Rashard Lewis, but they didn't take those guys. Pittsburg could have had Marino. The question is would those guys have left the same impressions they leave had they played for their hometown team.

I can understand wanting a homer. What I can't stand is when people try to convince others of the perceived greatness in a player. You who are a coach should understand better than anybody the intricate workings of a team. For you to say that one player will fit in better than another shows that you are not looking at the situation with a clear head. Talent does not always translate to a cohesive unit. Carr may not have grown up here, but for the last four yrs. this has been his home. Vince may have grown up in Houston, but last I checked he wasn't going to school here. There alot of subjects which haven't even been discussed and I'm not one to bring them up because I am tired of hearing about Young. Everyone just needs to calm down on this and try to look at the situation with a clear head.

 

[007]

DC is, and will never be more, than a good QB. If he had 21 all pros around him, he might be able to get to and maybe win the SB, but that's what it will take for him to reach those heights. He's no better than the other QB, who interestingly was his mentor, who came from Fresno. The guy was horrible at TB, but did win a SB with a team that had one of the best defenses of all time. He lasted one year, when the blackbirds decided he was not good enough to keep them winning longterm.

DC's so called strong arm continues to throw balls into the ground with wide open receivers and runs into sacks. He can run, but he runs a lot like Regina at A$M: scared and staight. He has no wiggle or escapeability. He's not even in the same zipcode as VY when it comes to talent and ability. Frankly, he was the best QB in the draft the year the Texans had the first pick and the guy who thought that the trade with Oakland last year for their undesirable DB was a good deal, thought he was a good fit, and he was if you take only that draft and that upcoming season into account.

If the Texans and CC don't take VY with their first pick and trade DC for a couple of mid round picks....that's if, they could even get that....then they need to trade the pick and pick up depth. Reggie Bush will never be more than a receiver/3rd down back. He will never be an every down back. Furthermore, he's not as fast as his hype. If you want evidence, look at the RB and the play when he was on the go route matched up against a UT freshman linebacker. Unlike the slow Pac 10 linebackers he was consistenly matched up against, this kid ran stride for stride for him and picked off the pass. He's not the Texans answer short term, and certainly is not the answer long term.

Let's just hope the Texans and our new coach finally get a clue. If they don't, the curse of baby blue might be on us once again.

00

 

[TexanSam]

I'll comment on two things:

First, about McNair saying all the options are still open, I believe that's a just a way to make Texans fans hope that there still is a chance we will draft Vince Young. With Carr getting the extension, that chance has minimized drastically. That's my opinion though. Hopefully the Texans don't prove me wrong on this one.

Second, there is absolutely no guarantee Vince Young will succeed in the pros. Same with Reggie Bush. David Carr isn't the 2nd coming of Joe Montana, but to say he's a bad QB is stupid, IMO. Look at who he's had to play with. Andre Johnson can't catch all the balls, and taking a 2 step drop and throwing a screen pass just so he won't be sacked probably will you tell something about our offensive line and their pass protection. QB is not our biggest need. It's not even a priority. Neither is running back, but if we had to choose which one we need an upgrade at it would be running back. Domanick Davis was injured for a good part of the season last year, and the year before that, although he only missed one game, it seemed like he was injured a lot more than the average football player. Having Reggie Bush and Domanick Davis in the backfield will give us much more explosiveness in the backfield. I'm not a Young hater, but I don't think the Texans need him. Let's say Vince Young does live up to all his hype and is an amzing QB, but let's also say Bush turns into a Marshall Faulk/Barry Sanders type of running back. Will we still regret the decision? I believe not.

 

[LBC_Justin]

4. We also don't know what we are getting. No one knows how Vince Young will do in the NFL. He is a unique talent and is going to be asked to do A LOT of things he rarely or has NEVER done before. He is there for a Big Risk!! He is a great pick with the #3, #4 or #5 pick. But is not worth the #1 or #2 pick. Otherwise you would hear about how he is going to the Saints and not to the Titians. like what? stevo3883 - what is he going to be asked to do he has never done before?? punt the ball? we have covered why the saints wouldnt take him, they have weapons ready and just need a basic pocket qb to get the ball to these weapons
Ummm try reading a defense from behind center and not in shotgun. Try taking a 5 step drop or a 3 step drop. Not running the option. If Vince Young goes top 3: Try not being behind a dominating Offensive line. Try not having a good tight end. I could go on but hopefully you get the point.

5. Michael Vick and Michael Brooks are the only two QBs that are faster than David Carr currently starting in the NFL. You right DC is not as big of a dual threat as VY or those other two guys but the guy has wheels. You could even argue that VY isn't a great of a passer so he isn't that much of a dual threat. Yes he can pass but if you really watched him play his passing got results but they didn't look pretty. stevo3883 - ok carr is a good athlete but he is not the 3rd fasest in the league, thats ridiculous. Culpepper, McNabb, Mcnair, Vick, Brooks, Plummer(4.6), josh McCown(4.59) are all faster than Carr and his 4.67 40. just because they dont run and choose to pass doesnt mean they arent as fast or faster. and vince isnt really a dual-threat? what? hes the only 3000/1000 qb in NCAA history- ie the most complete dual-threat qb EVER.. you're obviously a texas fan with all of these constant disses on his game...
Your right he is not a clear #3 in speed but McNair, McNabb and Culpepper are not faster than David Carr is right now. All three have put on weight and moved away from being Mobile QB's. That is the main reason they have had success. A mobile QB must eventually become a good pocket passer or they become Kordell Stewart. The fact remains Carr is one of the faster elusive QB's in the league.

6. The problem with a running QB is they only get slower as they get older. They are more likely to get injured. VY is a good passer but based on his passing ability alone he is not a Top QB prospect. Sorry. they are not more likely to get injured. stevo3883 - running can save you from injury. its a lot worse to be hit blindisde in the pocket than tackled while scrambling. VY put up passing numbers equal to leinart, yet you say he can't pass, right....
Running QB's take more hits. They also get sacked more (see Vick & Randall Cunningham). A good pocket QB like Peyton Manning won't lose his career if he can't run very fast. Carson Palmer's injury even if it slows him down won't make him that much less effective because he has a golden arm. As soon and Michael Vick can't run...he is done.
Also he didn't put up passing numbers that similar to Matt Leinart.
- In Leinarts worst year he pass for more yards than VY did in his best year.
- In Leinarts worst year he pass for more touchdowns than VY did in his best year.
- In Leinarts worst year he pass for less interceptions than VY did in his best year.
No this is not me HATING on Vince Young. These are facts not opinions.


7. I love UT. I even went to the Rosebowl. It was awesome.stevo3883 - sure you are, thats why you constantly degrade vy's skills. calling him a run-only qb who cant pass... right.
As far as being a Texas fan, being critical of a player does not make me less of a fan, I am a fan of the team first, not of individual players,...plus the emotion has worn off. This is the Business season of the NFL. I don't like losing, in fact I hate it. Anyone who thinks VY is our savior is wearing their heart on their sleeve and not their brain. I am a HUGE texas fan, but I am a thinking man. I am not going to jepordize the future of this franchise by using the #1 pick on someone who is not a sure thing. Yes Vince Young has a TON of upside but there is a TON of risk. In my opinion the #1 overall pick is not used on a risky pick. VY is a great player but he is not worth trading David Carr and Reggie Bush to get.(That is what we would be doing.). Why is there ZERO talk about a team wanting to trade up to the #1 or #2 spot to get Vince Young before the Titans do? Why are both Cutler & Leinart rated higher than Vince Young by about half the scounts in the NFL? A #1 overall pick should be the head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. He isn't close to that. Bottomline is if Florida State had won the National Title with Vince Young, then we would not be having this conversation, it is the "Hometown Hero Syndrome", maybe I am less effected by it since I don't get pounded daily by the local media.


GO TEXANS.stevo3883 - i can agree with that Sweet!

My response is in green.

 

[Big B Texan Fan]

First, about McNair saying all the options are still open, I believe that's a just a way to make Texans fans hope that there still is a chance we will draft Vince Young. With Carr getting the extension, that chance has minimized drastically. That's my opinion though. Hopefully the Texans don't prove me wrong on this one.

I believe he said that to make sure season ticket holders pony up on paying. Word is that the Texans are wanting more up front this year to get them guaranteed to you than in years past. Like 40% more. If true, I'd say the same things. Especially if I expected many fans to drop off (not the fandom, just spending money on a bad product) because of a single draft choice.

 

[LBC_Justin]

DC is, and will never be more, than a good QB. If he had 21 all pros around him, he might be able to get to and maybe win the SB, but that's what it will take for him to reach those heights. He's no better than the other QB, who interestingly was his mentor, who came from Fresno. The guy was horrible at TB, but did win a SB with a team that had one of the best defenses of all time. He lasted one year, when the blackbirds decided he was not good enough to keep them winning longterm.

DC's so called strong arm continues to throw balls into the ground with wide open receivers and runs into sacks. He can run, but he runs a lot like Regina at A$M: scared and staight. He has no wiggle or escapeability. He's not even in the same zipcode as VY when it comes to talent and ability. Frankly, he was the best QB in the draft the year the Texans had the first pick and the guy who thought that the trade with Oakland last year for their undesirable DB was a good deal, thought he was a good fit, and he was if you take only that draft and that upcoming season into account.

If the Texans and CC don't take VY with their first pick and trade DC for a couple of mid round picks....that's if, they could even get that....then they need to trade the pick and pick up depth. Reggie Bush will never be more than a receiver/3rd down back. He will never be an every down back. Furthermore, he's not as fast as his hype. If you want evidence, look at the RB and the play when he was on the go route matched up against a UT freshman linebacker. Unlike the slow Pac 10 linebackers he was consistenly matched up against, this kid ran stride for stride for him and picked off the pass. He's not the Texans answer short term, and certainly is not the answer long term.

Let's just hope the Texans and our new coach finally get a clue. If they don't, the curse of baby blue might be on us once again.

00

I have a big problem with posts like this. Because they use inconsistent logic.
Casserly is an ***** and a bad judge of talent because he traded for P-Buc. Lets forget the fact that last year with a single 4th round pick he got us a pro-bowler, and we ended up the the #2 special teams in the NFL because of that pick. Lets forget the fact that he grabbed DD with a late round pick. Lets forget the extra picks he got us with the Drew Henson trade. Lets forget the fact that he has built a team that has won a superbowl. (For the record I am not a big fan of Casserly but he is the guy in the saddle right now so I am going to support him, and pray for the sake of all Texans fans that it was the coaching that didn't work for us in the past and not him.)

Casserly, Reeves, and Kubiak all seem to think Carr has what it takes. They also have all won Superbowl Rings. Not to question the great evaluation skills of 007 but I seem to trust them a little more that I trust you. (Also most of the Scouts in the NFL are still high on David Carr.)

Again poor logic with your argument.
You are projecting greatness on Vince Young because of his college performance but are projecting failure onto Reggie Bush when he had one of the BEST careers in the history of his postion. Makes ZERO sense.

Using your logic. One could easily say Reggie Bush will lead this team to be one of the best Offenses of all time like Marshal Faulk did with the Rams and that Vince Young will be the next Kordell Stewart (I mean did you see how bad VY played against Texas A&M with their below average defense.)

 

[stevo3883]

Lets forget the fact that last year with a single 4th round pick he got us a pro-bowler- at kick returner... and this is his second pro-bowler in 4 seasons.

Again poor logic with your argument.
You are projecting greatness on Vince Young because of his college performance but are projecting failure onto Reggie Bush when he had one of the BEST careers in the history of his postion. Makes ZERO sense.Vince Young finished with nearly as many rushing yards in his career as RB. RB didnt have a great career, he had a fantastic year.

Using your logic. One could easily say Reggie Bush will lead this team to be one of the best Offenses of all time like Marshal Faulk did with the Rams and that Vince Young will be the next Kordell Stewart (I mean did you see how bad VY played against Texas A&M with their below average defense.)or i could say reggie will play every game like he did against washington- ie disappearing.

i have a problem with posts that bash VY

 

[LBC_Justin]

Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
Lets forget the fact that last year with a single 4th round pick he got us a pro-bowler- stevo3883 - at kick returner... and this is his second pro-bowler in 4 seasons.Well Dunta Robinson should have been a pro bowler his rookie year but he didn't make it. So was he a bad pick? Did you expect Travis Johnson to be a probowler his first year? Serious question..(I don't know the answer to this but would be curious to find out)..How do the Texans rank compared to other teams in drafting Pro Bowl players in the last 4 drafts? I could be wrong but I would guess we aren't doing that bad.

Again poor logic with your argument.
You are projecting greatness on Vince Young because of his college performance but are projecting failure onto Reggie Bush when he had one of the BEST careers in the history of his postion. stevo3883 - Makes ZERO sense.Vince Young finished with nearly as many rushing yards in his career as RB. RB didnt have a great career, he had a fantastic year. Oh yeah well....well...Reggie Bush had a higher career passer rating than Vince Young(LOL he does.). Seriously Vince Young is probably the best running college QB of all time and has more rushing attempts than Reggie Bush but still didn't run for more yards than Reggie. Oh and don't forget about the 95 passes for 1301 yards Reggie caught.(he had a better Junior year catching passes.) Or the Kick return/Punt return yards. The reason Reggie won the heisman and is sloted as the #1 pick is that he is a play maker in many areas. LOL I have spent the last few months defending VY over Reggie Bush against my USC friends so I know most of these arguments.) Trust me I would love to see VY come here and have a great career, but in my opinion it isn't the smart decison, it is the emotional one.

Using your logic. One could easily say Reggie Bush will lead this team to be one of the best Offenses of all time like Marshal Faulk did with the Rams and that Vince Young will be the next Kordell Stewart (I mean did you see how bad VY played against Texas A&M with their below average defense.)stevo3883 - or i could say reggie will play every game like he did against washington- ie disappearing.
LOL sorry but you clearly didn't watch the Washington game. (I did as I am force fed USC games where I currently live.)
Matt Leinart was lighting it up, neither of USC's running back saw a lot of action.
Reggie Bush had 8 carries for 51 <-- 6.4 yards per carry(that is a great average)
LenDale White had 16 carries for 56 <-- 3.5 yards per carry

Reggie Bush scored on a 84 yard punt return.
2 catches for 18 yards
8 carries for 51 yards, 1 touchdown
1 punt return for 84 yards, 1 touchdown
----------------------------------------
11 touches, 153 yards, 2 touchdowns. <--Just imagine what this guy can do in the games that he isn't "Disappearing".

I hope we draft Reggie Bush and he does play every game like he did against Washington.

enjoy

GO TEXANS

 

[LBC_Justin]

Oh and just for the record.
I am not "pro-Reggie Bush". I like the guy and think he is worthy of the #1 pick but I would be just as happy if we traded down and picked up D'Brick or Super Mario if the deal was right.

I would even be happy if we traded down and picked up Vince Young if the deal was right.

I would be one of the first people in line to get a VY Texans jersey. Heck the thought of him being on our team is getting me pumped up.

 

[Jack Bauer]

are you serious?

they started ranked 5th, and ended up 4th. and you want to DISCOUNT Texas' victory over them.

most ridiculous thing I have ever seen, makes absolutely no sense.

No, I am not serious. I was trying to make a point that you obviously did not get. What I was saying is that Ohio State was not as good of a team early in the season. If Troy Smith would have played the whole game, I think the outcome would have been different. And I am not trying to bash Texas or anyone. I am trying to show you that your arguments are just as weak as what you saw in my previous post. You can always say, "if this" or "if that". Makes for a weak argument.

 

[bckey]

It seems like these bbs have been taken over by a bunch of kids and new members that have picked sides and want to argue and sling insults if anyone disagrees with them. It is getting tiresome to wade through the garbage all the time. I see that a lot of the members that have been around for a while rarely post these days. These boards are in the sadest shape that I have ever seen them. Sean Taylor and DJ don't even compare to the fueding of the Vince Young and Reggie Bush crowds.

 

[stevo3883]

No, I am not serious. I was trying to make a point that you obviously did not get. What I was saying is that Ohio State was not as good of a team early in the season. If Troy Smith would have played the whole game, I think the outcome would have been different. And I am not trying to bash Texas or anyone. I am trying to show you that your arguments are just as weak as what you saw in my previous post. You can always say, "if this" or "if that". Makes for a weak argument.

i never said "if" anything.

Ohio state was ranked 5th when they played texas, obviously there were a good team when they played texas

oh and btw, troy smith didnt do anything against texas, i doubt him playing the hwole game wouldve mattered at all.

 

[Jack Bauer]

It took the astros almost twenty years to get there hometown guy while he posted Cy Young numbers everywhere else. People should quit taking stabs at each other and try to understand if you had a guy from your hometown wanting to come home you would be excited too.

I want to draft the best player available. I couldn't care less where the player is from. This comes from a coach? Yeah, okay.