Davis Tracking for Over 1,200

[tulexan]

15th is mediocre. There are 32 teams and he is ranked 15th. I guess technically the most mediocre is Cadillac Williams because he is ranked 16th out of 32 starters, but I would say give or take 4 is in the mediocre range. And again they aren't stacking the box to stop the run, they are stacking the AJ to stop our best player.

 

[Grid]

apparently logic doesnt enter the equation. When you are wearing Reggie Bush tinted glasses.. every other RB sucks.

 

[gg no re]

I'm wearing Reggie Bush tinted glasses right now, and I can tell you this: Eric Metcalf and Dave Meggett were WRONGED.

 

[tulexan]

apparently logic doesnt enter the equation. When you are wearing Reggie Bush tinted glasses.. every other RB sucks.

Actually it seems logic doesn't enter the equation when you have homer and texas tinted glasses. Because I know that if Reggie played for any Texas team there would be no question about his skills.

 

[MorKnolle]

speed this speed that...look DD is mediocre and his stats show it...he's 15th in rushing which is is about..mediocre....he's averaging 4.0 yards per carry...mediocre...in the top 15 there is only one player averaging less than he and that is lamont jordan....

LDT averaged 3.9 ypc last year. He's pretty damn mediocre.

are you saying DD is equal to or better than LT......
no i didn't think you were...who is dd equal to ? how many starting running backs is he better than ? or as good as ? ...Look DD is average... he's not better or as good as many starting running backs...there are some backups that would give him a run for his money...

The Art of Silly Arguments 101:

1) A single statistic is chosen that "proves" Domanick Davis is not a good RB, in this case that he is 14th out of the top 15 rushing RBs in yards per carry.

2) An example of one of the best two RBs in the league, in this case LaDanian Tomlinson, is brought up that contradicts this "proof" of Davis' inadequacy, as Tomlinson averaged fewer yards per carry last year than Davis is this year.

3) Angry comment shot back that person who pointed out discrepancy in the single, "all-telling" statistic, is completely wrong and is claiming that a good RB is better than one of the two best RBs in the league. This response is formed because his own logic is used against him, in this case that Davis has a higher ypc average than LT did last year, and by the original poster's logic would mean that Davis is better than Tomlinson, when in fact it is merely posted to point out the fallacy of trying to make a claim about the lack of overall skill of one player based on a single statistic.

4) Argument generally persists, not yet in this case, until participants become so exhausted with it that they give up trying to make a logical case or until the entire point of the argument is completely lost in the exchange and forgotten.

Take notes kids, this is the key to becoming a good politician.

 

[eriadoc]

I just love how when you point out all the stats that clearly point to DD being among the top RBs in the NFL (check this thread) the argument is "Stats lie", yet when trying to make a (very weak) case against DD, they pull out stats. It's great.

Oh, and the comments about DD breaking one and taking it to the house - Pick a RB, any RB. Go look up the stats and see how many runs over 20 yards they have. Then compare DD. Then go ahead and check 60-yarders just for fun. Yeah, there might be a few backs that can do it, but it just simply doesn't happen that often. And by the way, we have a running back on the roster with the speed to break one long at any time - Hollings. We see where that's gotten him.

 

[Napa Auto Parts]

If DD is as good as some of his supporters say we should have no problem getting a 1st rounder for him. unless GM'S around the league think differently of him.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Actually it seems logic doesn't enter the equation when you have homer and texas tinted glasses. Because I know that if Reggie played for any Texas team there would be no question about his skills.

Once again time will tell. You may be right as I feel Peterson is the best thing since sliced bread, because I have seen him many times. I have only seen Bush against Pac 10 teams.

 

[infantrycak]

LT had a terrible OL for the first 3 years of his career and he averaged 2048 total yards and 14 touchdowns per year.

Terrible?--compared to a non-Texan standard evidently. Folks around here are trying to act like the Texan OL is not too bad--(for the 2nd half of last season it was approaching a top half run blocking OL and what happened by the way?). That would make the San Diego OL look like an all pro set. Yeah there is a difference between run blocking and pass blocking but it isn't so great that an OL which gave up 27 sacks in 2001, 24 sacks in 2002, 29 sacks in 2003, and 19 sacks in 2004 (99 sacks in 4 years) has ANY reason to be called terrible in conjunction with an OL which has given up 216 sacks in 3.75 years. If San Diego was terrible, what the heck is that?

Simple question--would DD's stats be better behind a good OL (say like many of the elite RB's have) such as Seahawks, Denver, Kansas City, Indy?

 

[Runner]

(for the 2nd half of last season it was approaching a top half run blocking OL and what happened by the way?).

Well, we ran best behind Pitts and Wand last year,* perceptions and reputation of Wade and Weigert put aside. If we leave that combination out there maybe we would have remained a successful running team, like our coaches seem to want. Pendry couldn't leave Wand out there though, since he was the scapegoat for all of last year's problems. The line's performance on all fronts certainly plummetted this year.

This is the problem with judging the line or a player by one metric, in this case sacks. It has led to our current situation - we are giving up fewer sacks than the record setting pace at the beginning of the year (WOW! Great improvement!), but we have reduced the offense to the point that it is barely capable of putting points on the board. It certainly can't put enough points up to win games for this team.


*Somebody posted a detailed post breaking down last season's running game earlier in the year, it may have been infantrycak.

 

[BigBull17]

I'm sorry but do you really think any defensive coordinators really need to gameplan for anyone or anything in regards to the Texans offense? Here's the gameplan: stop the run to the left, stop the 7 yard out or 7 yard slant pattern, and stop the rollout to the right by Carr. My 4 year-old can come up with a defensive "gameplan" to shut down our O. Don't blame DD for the stupidity of our offensive scheme, all 4 plays of it.

Dont forget the 5th play, 2 step sack...

 

[vtech9]

The stat that I am most interested in seeing, is how well Davis stacks up against other RB's in the league in yards after initial contact.

 

[gg no re]

If DD is as good as some of his supporters say we should have no problem getting a 1st rounder for him. unless GM'S around the league think differently of him.

Ask The Colts GM and the Seahawks GM what they were offered for James and Alexander.

 

[MorKnolle]

If DD is as good as some of his supporters say we should have no problem getting a 1st rounder for him. unless GM'S around the league think differently of him.

No one trades a first round pick for a RB, for that matter very few trades are made in the NFL. Corey Dillon, probably one of the top 5 RBs in the league at the time, was traded for the last pick in the 2nd round a couple years ago. Teams are not willing to trade off a first round pick for a player, and usually it would require a player great enough that the other team would not be willing to offer. It just doesn't happen in the NFL.

The stat that I am most interested in seeing, is how well Davis stacks up against other RB's in the league in yards after initial contact.

I would be interested to see this statistic as well. Do they post that anywhere?

 

[Doug]

DD was a 4th round pick (if I remember correctly) and has been more than what I thought he would ever turn out to be. I sit up on the couch every time he gets the ball just to see what he's going to do because I enjoy watching him run and the way he goes about it, his feet never stop. So many times I've watched him run into a pile and think, man it's either a no gain or 1 yarder, then he pops his head out the other side of the pile for a 3 or 4 yard gain. He's constantly made something out of nothing and to me that's more important than a speedy back who needs a gaping hole (Which you don't get often with this Oline) to run through to get a 99 yard td (Enters Sarcasm). Let's face it, with this lines inconsistant run blocking and pass blocking we need someone who can help carry the load and he does that. The argument is constantly made that if Carr had time to throw the ball imagine what he could do and I believe the same could be said for DD as far as run blocking is concerned. We have games where he's got holes and cut back lanes all day but then there's times that he would need a sledge hammer to break through the wall in front of him. This is a good kid and in my opinion a great back for this team. Every time I hear or read someone interview him and ask a quetion on how he feels about something his response is always, "I'll do whatever this team needs me to do to make us a better team and help us win". If our line shapes up and we actually start having a passing game you will see DD turn 1300 yards or more in a season. Will he break off a 60 yard run and take it to the house? Probably not, but he will be consistant and he'll help get us where we need to be. Sometimes I think fans expect everyone on their team to be a highlight reel and that's just not going to happen.

 

[eriadoc]

DD was a 4th round pick (if I remember correctly) and has been more than what I thought he would ever turn out to be. I sit up on the couch every time he gets the ball just to see what he's going to do because I enjoy watching him run and the way he goes about it, his feet never stop. So many times I've watched him run into a pile and think, man it's either a no gain or 1 yarder, then he pops his head out the other side of the pile for a 3 or 4 yard gain. He's constantly made something out of nothing and to me that's more important than a speedy back who needs a gaping hole (Which you don't get often with this Oline) to run through to get a 99 yard td (Enters Sarcasm). Let's face it, with this lines inconsistant run blocking and pass blocking we need someone who can help carry the load and he does that. The argument is constantly made that if Carr had time to throw the ball imagine what he could do and I believe the same could be said for DD as far as run blocking is concerned. We have games where he's got holes and cut back lanes all day but then there's times that he would need a sledge hammer to break through the wall in front of him. This is a good kid and in my opinion a great back for this team. Every time I hear or read someone interview him and ask a quetion on how he feels about something his response is always, "I'll do whatever this team needs me to do to make us a better team and help us win". If our line shapes up and we actually start having a passing game you will see DD turn 1300 yards or more in a season. Will he break off a 60 yard run and take it to the house? Probably not, but he will be consistant and he'll help get us where we need to be. Sometimes I think fans expect everyone on their team to be a highlight reel and that's just not going to happen.

What he said.

 

[eriadoc]

I would be interested to see this statistic as well. Do they post that anywhere?

I did some searching and evidently, STATS, Inc. tracked it and published it for one year (1998), but they have not since. Nonme of the standard statistics sites track this stat, even though they track some pretty outlandish stats.

In 1998, some of the names that popped out at me from the top 10 were Natrone Means (led the league with something like 2.76 YAC avg), Jamal Anderson (was his 1800-yd. season, Terrell Davis, Emmitt Smith, and Barry Sanders. The range of the top 10 was roughly 2.15 YAC average to 2.76, FWIW.

There are times when DD does very well with the YAC, and for the most part, I think he's pretty good at breaking arm tackles and squirting forward between defenders to get that extra yard or two. There are other times where he'd have to have a sledgehammer, as the above poster said. DD gets pretty good YAC, but he gets it differently than someone like Bettis.

 

[Hervoyel]

Actually it seems logic doesn't enter the equation when you have homer and texas tinted glasses.

Actually combination homer and texans tinted glasses don't exist. That's a common misconception that people have. To date nobody has been able to combine the two in a small emough packed to work with glasses.

Right now the the closest you can get is a big ol' helmet with a "Homer Visor" (patent pending) that trails about ten foot of cables and prevents the wearer from not only seeing things but also renders them incapable of hearing the truth. They're available at Acadamy and Oshmans.

As big and awkward as they are I thought they would never sell but then I come on to this board and from the look of things they are obviously doing a booming business.

 

[gg no re]

I don't get it.

 

[tulexan]

Actually combination homer and texans tinted glasses don't exist. That's a common misconception that people have. To date nobody has been able to combine the two in a small emough packed to work with glasses.

Right now the the closest you can get is a big ol' helmet with a "Homer Visor" (patent pending) that trails about ten foot of cables and prevents the wearer from not only seeing things but also renders them incapable of hearing the truth. They're available at Acadamy and Oshmans.

As big and awkward as they are I thought they would never sell but then I come on to this board and from the look of things they are obviously doing a booming business.

My bad, but people have those.

 

[gg no re]

My homer visor is small and compact, and fits in my pocket.

 

[Doug]

Call it what you will but I don't see how either side is right or wrong. One person states their opinion then backs it up with stats , then a person with a difference in opinion states theirs and backs it up with stats. You can claim people aren't listening to the truth yet there's truths from both sides just difference in opinions on how the truths are used. Once people make up their opinion (mind) and feel they've justified why it is what it is it's hard to sway them any other way.

 

[Hervoyel]

Call it what you will but I don't see how either side is right or wrong. One person states their opinion then backs it up with stats , then a person with a difference in opinion states theirs and backs it up with stats. You can claim people aren't listening to the truth yet there's truths from both sides just difference in opinions on how the truths are used. Once people make up their opinion (mind) and feel they've justified why it is what it is it's hard to sway them any other way.

So true. The one thing that's important is that whether you think the Texans should tank every game to get Reggie Bush or win out, turn the corner, and trade down for more picks is that pretty much everyone here (with the exception of the odd troll from time to time) wants the Texans to improve. We just have different ideas about how to make that come to pass.

And also I'm right....all of you other guys who don't agree with me are wrong.

 

[Grid]

Ive got nothing against Bush.. I want that #1 pick as bad as the biggest Bush groupie.. I just want it for different reasons.

We dont NEED another RB.. thats a fact..not an opinion. We are NOT hurting at RB.. Davis and Wells do their job well and will do even better when the rest of our offense functions properly. The ONLY reason to get Bush is because A) you have a man-crush on him, or B) You feel that he is the next Barry Sanders.

With option A.. there is no amount of logic that would change your mind. Stats, facts, team loyalty, nothing will pry your mind from the thought of your boy in Steel Blue and Battle Red. Option B though.. I would think that these people would understand that there is no "sure thing" in the draft.. and it would be a reckless move to waste a #1 pick on a RB when it is probably the ONE position on our team that there is really NO reason to draft anyone at.

I want the #1 pick so that we can seduce some team that needs a QB or RB to trade the farm to us so they can get Lienart or Bush... thus allowing us to grab a number of players on the first day..and increase our chances of getting a playmaker at a position where we really need one.

 

[Porky]

I think the biggest lesson of this thread is this. Stats are for losers. This isn't baseball people. Try watching the games with objectivity, and it will tell you everything you need to know. and not just Texans games. Want to know why LT and DD don't compare? Watch the freaking games. I don't need an encyclipedia to tell me the sun is orange, I just go out and look at it.

How many of you have even looked at Bush critically? Or do you mimic what all the so-called experts say? He can't run between the tackles huh. How come almost every carry he had last week was between the tackles? He isn't big or strong enough? Well, how come I saw him dragging piles of guys 5 yards down the field, breaking tackles left and right, etc. He isn't durable. How many times has he been injured again? He can only carry the ball a max of 15 times a game. Ever heard of Lendale White, a likely 1st round pick? This goes on and on, but I tire easily, so I will leave you with these famous parting words of Conficous- Man who fly upside down have crack up.

 

[Grid]

Watching games has shown me that DD is a more than servicable back for this team.. and that we need to look at players we actually need.

 

[Doug]

The only reason you say it's a fact is because it's YOUR opinion. LOL ...Sorry I thought that was funny.

I happen to agree with you Grid. I like Reggie Bush but I just don't see the need for him other than extra draft picks, not to mention the fact that we have capable backs without the big price tag and are established NFL players.

 

[infantrycak]

Simple question--would DD's stats be better behind a good OL (say like many of the elite RB's have) such as Seahawks, Denver, Kansas City, Indy?

Funny how this question hangs out there unanswered even by the Luddites who just know what they see.

Of course the run, run, pass people didn't need any stats or encylopedias either--would have proven them demonstrably wrong.

 

[tulexan]

You shouldn't look at Reggie Bush as just a RB. If this was DeAngelo Williams or Laurence Maroney I would agree with you that we don't need him, but Reggie Bush is more than just a RB. He is an offensive playmaker. He is kind of like what Ted Ginn Jr. was last year. You spread him out over various positions on offense and special teams and he gives you explosive speed and touchdown potential. You can play him at RB, you can play him in the slot, you can play him out wide, you can play him on punt returns, or you can play him on kick returns. He is a swiss army knife kind of player that you can use almost everywhere. We have only a few playmakers on this team and a bad offense. All indications are that we are going to try to be a more offensive oriented team next year, so why not add arguably one of the best offensive weapons to come out of the draft in ten or more years. We can solidify our offensive line and our defense through the rest of the draft and free agency. We can't add a playmaker like Reggie Bush through the rest of the draft and free agency.

 

[cadahnic]

Infantry I am going to go with yes they would be better. One we would be winning more games and would not have to result to as much passing in the later quarters and as I watch Larry Johnson not get hit until he has already gained two or three yards I wonder what if.

 

[infantrycak]

you can play him on punt returns, or you can play him on kick returns. He is a swiss army knife kind of player that you can use almost everywhere.

Good idea, let's yank Mathis (at league minimum) from KR's where he averages 30.8 ypr and put in Bush at $9+ mil to average 17 ypr like he does this year in college. You know the thing about swiss army knives?--they do tons of stuff, and none of it as well as the real tools they are trying to replace.

 

[tulexan]

You don't need to have one guy back there returning kicks. In fact most have two guys (one on the left, one on the right)

 

[Grid]

With Mathis' production.. id rather just leave him out there to shag all the kicks.

 

[Runner]

I hope everyone braces themselves when draft day comes along. A lot of this "draft Bush because Davis isn't good enough vs. trade the pick and get a tackle and a tight end for Davis to work with" talk is going to come to a halt like it hit brick wall if and when the Texans draft for defense.

 

[eriadoc]

We can solidify our offensive line and our defense through the rest of the draft and free agency.

This is where you are completely wrong, and it's a shame that this viewpoint keeps getting thrown out there like it's reality. There was a thread (from Vinny, I believe) that listed all the available offensive linemen coming out in free agency this year. ONE (1) of them is a starting left tackle, and that's LJ Shelton. The same LJ Shelton that the Cardinals gave up on and the same LJ Shelton that we evidently passed over in favor of Victor Riley. He plays for the Browns this year and I'd be very surprised if they made a concerted effort to re-sign him. I made a post a couple weeks ago that showed every starting left tackle in the NFL this year and with a couple exceptions, all the teams that have a good offense have a left tackle that they drafted in the first round. The few exceptions were teams that are either grooming their LT of the future at RT this year, got lucky on a later round pick, or their offense sucks. The two notable quality left tackles that were taken after the first round are Matt Light, NE (out injured, but very good) and Marvel Smith, PIT. So this notion that we can fix the line in free agency or later in the draft is wrong. Sure, we might get lucky and find our future left tackle in the second round or later, but history shows that it doesn't happen that often.

Sometimes you just have to make smart football decisions and forego the flashy picks. This team needs a tackle that can play either tackle position WAY more than they need a running back. History shows that franchise-grade tackles come out of the first round.

 

[infantrycak]

I hope everyone braces themselves when draft day comes along. A lot of this "draft Bush because Davis isn't good enough vs. trade the pick and get a tackle and a tight end for Davis to work with" talk is going to come to a halt like it hit brick wall if and when the Texans draft for defense.

If the Texans stay at #1, by all means they should take Bush--he is the bpa at that spot. Don't know of any D player that would be worth the #1 pick.

 

[stevo3883]

the one thing i hate is people who sit there and tell people theyre wrong when all they are going off of is their opinion. thats all anyone is going off of, opinions.


Its my opinion that Bush could help this team more than a rookie LT could. At hb Bush and Davis would split carries, hopefully reducing davis' constant injuries, while keeping bush fresh for his huge runs. Bush is also versatile and can help in the passing game by taking pressure off AJ by lining in the slot.


you can sit and deny it all u want, but the fact remains that this offense is weak, very weak. our wr's are still going to be bad, LT or no.

this team needs playmakers, even the most anti-bush can proly agree to that. we have no one the defense fears other than AJ. Bush would finally give us another threat, something teams would acutally have to respect.


Bush could open up the passing game, and would improve the running game, more than a rookie LT could.

 

[Runner]

If the Texans stay at #1, by all means they should take Bush--he is the bpa at that spot. Don't know of any D player that would be worth the #1 pick.

I don't know of one either. What I really expect is for them to trade the pick for a proven defensive player and a later first rounder (and maybe some later round picks). However, that is just my opinion based on nothing.

I believe that the defense is in worse shape than the offense, and a good coach can do more to improve the offense than the defense. I guess that translates to that I think both units are poorly coached but the offense has more talent.

 

[cadahnic]

Runner I do agree that they will likely trade down in order to pick up a first next year and a second or third this year. If they can really swindle someone they might be able to grab some fourths this year and next. kinda like an Eli deal eventhough I cannot imagine someone wanting Bush since unlike Eli he cannot create for himself.

 

[tulexan]

the one thing i hate is people who sit there and tell people theyre wrong when all they are going off of is their opinion. thats all anyone is going off of, opinions.


Its my opinion that Bush could help this team more than a rookie LT could. At hb Bush and Davis would split carries, hopefully reducing davis' constant injuries, while keeping bush fresh for his huge runs. Bush is also versatile and can help in the passing game by taking pressure off AJ by lining in the slot.


you can sit and deny it all u want, but the fact remains that this offense is weak, very weak. our wr's are still going to be bad, LT or no.

this team needs playmakers, even the most anti-bush can proly agree to that. we have no one the defense fears other than AJ. Bush would finally give us another threat, something teams would acutally have to respect.


Bush could open up the passing game, and would improve the running game, more than a rookie LT could.

Finally, someone with some sense

 

[eriadoc]

the one thing i hate is people who sit there and tell people theyre wrong when all they are going off of is their opinion. thats all anyone is going off of, opinions.


Its my opinion that Bush could help this team more than a rookie LT could. At hb Bush and Davis would split carries, hopefully reducing davis' constant injuries, while keeping bush fresh for his huge runs. Bush is also versatile and can help in the passing game by taking pressure off AJ by lining in the slot.


you can sit and deny it all u want, but the fact remains that this offense is weak, very weak. our wr's are still going to be bad, LT or no.

this team needs playmakers, even the most anti-bush can proly agree to that. we have no one the defense fears other than AJ. Bush would finally give us another threat, something teams would acutally have to respect.


Bush could open up the passing game, and would improve the running game, more than a rookie LT could.

Well, OK, I can go with that. Perhaps I worded it a bit harshly. My opinion, however, is that we've had poor line play for the duration of this franchise's existence. I think most would agree with me. My research (and you can go check it if you like) shows that getting a franchise-caliber LT is going to take a 1st-round pick, barring some unforeseen circumstance. Since a rookie LT is not going to help this team, when exactly do you propose we go out and draft our left tackle? Or perhaps you think that we should go after one in free agency. If so, go ahead and go back and look at how many solid left tackles have left their team in the last 20 years. They don't, unless they are no longer effective. There is one exception I can think of - Willie Roaf. He left the Saints, who tought (along with most of the rest of the league) that his career was over due to injury. I believe it was Roaf who failed a physical for the Texans and Boselli passed, go figure.

The point is, you have to draft and develop a tackle at some point. Every single year there is going to be a player that fans are going to want more than a left tackle. Who the heck wants to watch a left tackle? Until these fans get it in their head that football is won and lost on the offensive and defensive line, they'll never understand this viewpoint. If we had Reggie Bush on this team for the duration of this season, we'd still be 1-11. OK, maybe I'll give you 2-12 on some freak run that he'd make, getting the game winning TD or something. Our team sucks because our offensive line is not, and never has been good. A better offensive line would have such an incredible trickle-down effect, we'd be leaps and bounds better than we are. Fix the O-line starting in the off-season and get some coaches in here that can utilize the talent we have and we will be on the cusp of a playoff spot.

Draft Bush, and we'll still be missing that LT that we need like Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Jon Ogden, Tarik Glenn, John Tait, Levi Jones, Luke Petitgout, Tra Thomas, Bryant McKinnie, etc. None of those names make the SportsCenter highlights, but those are the guys that win football games. You hear about Shaun Alexander, but it's really Walter Jones, R. Tobeck, and Hutchinson paving the way for him.

 

[Hervoyel]

That's why I advocate taking Bush with pick #1 and then trading back up into the first to get one of the LT's much like we did to get Babin after we selected Dunta Robinson.

That only makes sense if you do not believe that our team is anywhere near as bad as it appears right now. If, like myself you think that our primary problem is not necessarily personnel or personnel aquisition but rather coaching and player development then you aren't looking at this draft as a "must leverage our position to fill 8-10 holes right away kind of draft.

The thing is I don't draft Reggie Bush to return kicks or punts. I draft Reggie Bush to be my starting RB because I believe that he is (as Grid said in option B) the next amazing running back that you will be kicking yourself forever over letting get away.

Only time will tell if I'm right but in my nightmare world I see the Texans making a trade with Tennessee where we "fleece" them of their first day picks and then watch Reggie Bush run all over us for the next ten years. That is of course a worst case scenario but if the Texans pass on him and all of the people talking "next Gayle Sayers" kind of hype are proven right then I'll be sick to my stomach and so will many of you.

You either believe he's going to be great or you don't and until he proves it either way there's really no difference between those who think he's going to be the next Barry Sanders and those who have a man crush on him. Choices A and B are identical for all practical purposes until he "walks the walk" in the NFL.

 

[cadahnic]

OK so Bush is the number 1 pick at let's make it cheap and say 40M. He is going to play WR for us not to mention situational RB and maybe 3rd down back. He is then going to return kicks and punts, putting a great returner in Mathis even farther down on the bench. Then at 5'11" 190-195 he is going to hold up to all this work. This is not an opinion but just an observation of what the Bushians want out of Reggie Bush. Look I think he is a great college back(not the best playmaker in 5 years though) but no one guy can turn around a franchise other than a stud QB.

 

[tulexan]

No you draft Bush with the first pick and then draft either Jonathan Scott, Marcus McNeil, Winston Justice, or any other of the extremely deep Tackles this year. Or you could go for a guard like Max Jean Gilles or Davin Joseph. Just like last year was the year of the running back and the year before was the year of the wide receiver, this is the year of the OL.

 

[gg no re]

I think Denver would make a good supportive case. They lose and gain more 1000 yard backs in five seasons than some other franchise during their existence, yet they've always found a way to maintain a healthy running game.

 

[eriadoc]

That's why I advocate taking Bush with pick #1 and then trading back up into the first to get one of the LT's much like we did to get Babin after we selected Dunta Robinson.

That only makes sense if you do not believe that our team is anywhere near as bad as it appears right now. If, like myself you think that our primary problem is not necessarily personnel or personnel aquisition but rather coaching and player development then you aren't looking at this draft as a "must leverage our position to fill 8-10 holes right away kind of draft.

Now see, I can get behind this idea. If you think Eric Winston, for instance, is still going to be available somewhere around 20, then grab Bush and trade up. I have nothing against Bush at all - I just know that this team needs OT, OG, CB, safety, and a LB way before it needs a running back. Given that he's supposed to be this awesome talent, I can understand wanting to take him where he's available - just not at the expense of the future of the team. You have to fix this O-line and Winston or Ferguson would start at tackle for this team next year; I have no doubt.

Of course, then you have Casserly trading away his next 73 picks to get back into the first round, but that's a different discussion.

 

[cadahnic]

gg I know you are not about to bring up the fact that Denver has a solid O-line and that is why they are successful cause that may take away from some of the Bush steam. It is strange that on the poll for Bush or trade down so we can fill some of the glaring holes(which coaching cannot fix) the latter of the options prevailed.

 

[Hervoyel]

OK so Bush is the number 1 pick at let's make it cheap and say 40M. He is going to play WR for us not to mention situational RB and maybe 3rd down back. He is then going to return kicks and punts, putting a great returner in Mathis even farther down on the bench. Then at 5'11" 190-195 he is going to hold up to all this work. This is not an opinion but just an observation of what the Bushians want out of Reggie Bush. Look I think he is a great college back(not the best playmaker in 5 years though) but no one guy can turn around a franchise other than a stud QB.

Not in my world. In my world he's my starting RB who can be sent into the slot and may, from time to time see a couple of plays at WR. Anyone saying "Reggie Bush need to be returning kicks for us" must have stopped watching the Texans when the losing started getting heavy and missed Jerome Mathis. I wouldn't sit him down for anything.

I expect the Texans to put some more meat on his frame and I would be content to leave it to their judgement as to how much more he can weigh and still be effective. I don't think 210-215 is out of the question but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I believe that the defense is in worse shape than the offense, and a good coach can do more to improve the offense than the defense. I guess that translates to that I think both units are poorly coached but the offense has more talent.

I respectfully do not agree. I think we have a nice mix of speed, youth, talent and veterans. A new philosophy, in my opinion, will go much further on the defensive side of the ball. I think our offensive woes go much deeper.

 

[eriadoc]

No you draft Bush with the first pick and then draft either Jonathan Scott, Marcus McNeil, Winston Justice, or any other of the extremely deep Tackles this year. Or you could go for a guard like Max Jean Gilles or Davin Joseph. Just like last year was the year of the running back and the year before was the year of the wide receiver, this is the year of the OL.

IF any of those guys mentioned grade out to be a starting left tackle, then sure, do that. As I said above, very few left tackles come from anywhere lower than the first round and this is a fact that anyone here can easily verify at drafthistory.com with a little bit of research. As far as guard goes, we need one, but not as bad as we need a tackle. There are plenty of guards that come from the middle rounds. Tackles with good feet are just not that common.