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David Carr is average

the wonger need food said:
If someone can provide some factual evidence to show otherwise please do so.
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Well gee, not that you couldn't find this yourself, but it would hurt your position:

Completion %--12th among QB's who started 10 or more games (and higher than John Elway had in 13 of 16 seasons)
Total yards--12th
Yards per attempt--11th
Rushing yards--3rd
QB Rating--16th (and ahead of other recently drafted QB's Leftwich, Palmer, Vick, Harrington, Ramsey)

For an even better picture let's look at his performance before his pass protection went from OK to miserable, i.e. the mid point of the season.

Games 1-8: QB rating 95.1, Comp. % 64.1, ypg 270.3, ypa 8.6
This would have been 8th, 9th, 5th and 3rd in the league if continued through the season.

IMO he has steadily progressed each year despite getting more turf time than any other QB in his 3 years in the league (not an excuse, a statement of fact--you tell me what is more realistic, considering the context of his performance or being blindly dismissive of what is happening). Seems like with top half to top third #'s and not being so myopic as to ignore the performance of the players around him it is hard to conclude he will never be anything but average.
 
infantrycak said:
Games 1-8: QB rating 95.1, Comp. % 64.1, ypg 270.3, ypa 8.6
This would have been 8th, 9th, 5th and 3rd in the league if continued through the season.
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Here was our schedule and the pass defense ranking of the team we played:
San Diego 30
Detroit 21
KC 32
Oakland 28
Minnesota 29
Tennessee 26
Jacksonville 16
Denver 6
-------------
Indianapolis 31
Green Bay 25
Tennessee 26
NY Jets 14
Indianapolis 31
Chicago 13
Jacksonville 16
Cleveland 5

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/stati...=def&league=nfl&order=true&season=2&year=2004

You will notice how many horrible pass defense swe played against the first 6 weeks of the season. We only played 2 teams in the top 20 in pass defense the entire first half of the season. I think this had an impact on inflating Carr's stats early in the season.

The second half of the season, Carr struggled to pass the ball as well. Although the Colts and Packers had bad pass defenses, they were able to cover that up with their pass rush. I'd like to think he could dismantle these two teams if he had a more reliable line. We may never know at this rate.
 
TheOgre said:
You will notice how many horrible pass defense swe played against the first 6 weeks of the season. We only played 2 teams in the top 20 in pass defense the entire first half of the season. I think this had an impact on inflating Carr's stats early in the season.

The second half of the season, Carr struggled to pass the ball as well. Although the Colts and Packers had bad pass defenses, they were able to cover that up with their pass rush. I'd like to think he could dismantle these two teams if he had a more reliable line. We may never know at this rate.
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That almost certainly accounts for some of the split although not all IMO. The average ranking of the 1st 8 teams is 23.5, for the last 8 20.5--a split, but we aren't talking about anything of the magnitude of split in Carr's performance from top 10 to bottom 10. My inexplicable observation for the year was the OL couldn't play a complete game. During games 1-8 the pass protection was decent but the run blocking below average. During the 2nd half of the season the run blocking was decent but the pass blocking below average.
 
exactly Infantrycak. I wonder if it was a coincidence that after the 8th game, Carr's stats declined and he started to hit the turf. 9th game was against Indy and Freeny caused havoc .. yet I don't recall him getting a sack, but he disrupted the plays.... that is the direct damage he did... what also happened was that teams were getting a good game plan on our OL and how to disrupt anything we did.. As far as Carr goes.. I see a QB that can make all the throws necessary.. but doesn't have the confidence in his OL to step up in the pocket like a QB should be able to do.
 
Lucky said:
What does this tell me? That if Carr is allowed just average protection, he is one of the better QBs in the league & the Texans can have a winning record. But if Carr is allowed to be sacked at a league high rate, he's not good & the Texans will lose.

Now maybe, just maybe, you could convince a veteran QB to come play behind this O-line. Maybe not. But I'll tell you, there aren't many QBs that are successful while being sacked 3.5 times a game. I would prefer the Texans use their time & resources to improve and develop the offensive line rather than signing and working a new QB into the system. That's just the way I see it.
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I sat there at the end green bay game depressed. Not because we lost a winnable game. But because I knew this Carr suxs **** was coming from the stone chunkers and I'd have to read it all winter. TY, TY for the great post. Carr was Mauled in the Cleevland game also. Too painful to watch. The o-line should have oppologized for their prefomance. The fact that Carr is taking this beating and not complianing about it tells me he is a pro's pro. He is never going to be Manning. But what he is is a winner. Dump him if you want. But for my money he is the perfect QB to run this offense. JMHO.
 
Hulk75 said:
that was all very well said! if Carr got to throw the ball 40 times or so a game he and the O could be up there like the Colts.
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I think most agree that DC will be fine now because it is hard to argue with his play after last year. I do hope we never become that kind of team though (puts way too much pressure on the D with a few incompletions...passing offenses in the NFL do not manage the clock well). I got sick of the pass happy Run and Shoot Oilers getting beat in the Playoffs each year (like the Colts).... Palmer uses run and shoot type progressions here in the passing game (ugh) and that is as close to that high school scheme as I want to get.
 
the wonger need food said:
For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.

He has proven to be a very average QB. Has he shown anyone that he has the mentality to be great some day? Yes he gets hit a lot and still plays, big deal, a lot of QB's do that. The organization should seriously consider bringing someone in to challenge him for his job. I remember when they drafted Henson someone from the team had to make a call to him to explain. Forget that, he should have to perform to keep his job just like the rest of us.
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I'm sorry did you say something? :fib
 
Carr is the man for Houston. He's an above average QB and being made better every year by his unique welcome to the NFL. I don't think there's a QB right now that can stare down a blitz better then Carr. Sure Brady can stand in the pocket until it almost breaks, but I've seen Carr stare down blitzers as he completes passes over their heads. When the game isn't entierly riding on him, he's almost impossible to phase. He'll watch as the entire D-line is coming at him and he'll stand his ground and make the throw. He's been hit so many times he isn't scared any more. He's not gonna pull the ball down. He'll make the throw.
 
"He's not gonna pull the ball down. He'll make the throw."

...guess thats why he gets so many rushing yards and who was that QB
for the Texans who ran out of bounds instead of throwing a hail mary
against the Browns as time ran out? Banks? Ragone? :hmmm:
 
Yes, he still has to scramble, which is caused by poor O-line play (which has been extensivly documented here and elsewhere). However, he makes throws in defenders teeth all the time. Lots of other QB's just curl up when they see a defender coming.

Carr's success hindges on how much of the load he feels he's carrying. When he's having fun playing football he is a great QB. when he feels he has to do it all himself, he makes big mistakes.
 
the wonger need food said:
For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.

He has proven to be a very average QB. Has he shown anyone that he has the mentality to be great some day? Yes he gets hit a lot and still plays, big deal, a lot of QB's do that. The organization should seriously consider bringing someone in to challenge him for his job. I remember when they drafted Henson someone from the team had to make a call to him to explain. Forget that, he should have to perform to keep his job just like the rest of us.
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This is one of the most hiatus things I've ever seen on this board. The dude has improved greatly over the past two years. He has a more demanding presence in the offense now, and he is taking complete leadership over this team. Give this man better o-line play, a TE to throw to, and I bet you he will be a top 5 Qb. This dude can make all the throws and the correct reads.
 
LikeABoss said:
This is one of the most hiatus things I've ever seen on this board. The dude has improved greatly over the past two years. He has a more demanding presence in the offense now, and he is taking complete leadership over this team. Give this man better o-line play, a TE to throw to, and I bet you he will be a top 5 Qb. This dude can make all the throws and the correct reads.
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Not sure what a "hiatus thing" is. Doesn't hiatus mean a gap or interruption in space or contunuity or something like that. Anyway...

Like I said, the guy had an average year. All of his stats (aside from rushing) are middle-of-the-road. If last year proved to you that he is a future HOF'er, good for you and I hope all of your dreams are fulfilled someday. However, myself and several other Texan fans are not convinced that he is the guy that will get the organization a championship. No amount of what if's and excuses will change our minds.

With that said, I hope he has a great year and career and proves me wrong.
 
the wonger need food said:
Not sure what a "hiatus thing" is. Doesn't hiatus mean a gap or interruption in space or contunuity or something like that. Anyway...

Like I said, the guy had an average year. All of his stats (aside from rushing) are middle-of-the-road. If last year proved to you that he is a future HOF'er, good for you and I hope all of your dreams are fulfilled someday. However, myself and several other Texan fans are not convinced that he is the guy that will get the organization a championship. No amount of what if's and excuses will change our minds.

With that said, I hope he has a great year and career and proves me wrong.
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Carr is average... heck Joe Montana would be average on this team. Our OL can't either 1) keep carr upright or 2) give Carr a pocket so he can step up and throw. Time will tell, but it is unfair to judge someone esp a QB, when the offense still needs help (i.e. OL,RB,TE and another WR)
 
"offense still needs help (i.e. OL,RB,TE and another WR)"

We are entering our 4th year and still need this much help on offense?
What were we doing with players the first 3 years? To need this much
help means we have some serious problems either (1) player evaluating/
scouting/selecting or (2) effective coaching to get desired results from the
players or a combination of the 2.

But the real scary part is that maybe the powers to be that remain in
place continue with this lack of player development, which means-of course-
that our QB will not be able to 'strut his stuff.' Let's hope this is not going
to be a revolving door of 'what you see is what you get.' :dontknowa
 
I wouldn't go jumping off any bridges. Most teams in the NFL need help in multiple positions. We have developing young players at WR and Joppru has yet to hit the field at TE. I don't think it is a secret that we could use some quality depth at RB and OL. You only get 3 first day picks per year and you shouldn't expect more than a couple of impact FA's in any free agent class so it takes a few years to build a roster that goes 45 (quality players) deep. In our 3rd year we were 7-9 and have a good foundation to build on. Heck, the Steelers were 6-10 last year and we have a better record than that this season (they went 15-1 this year btw). Not such scary stuff.
 
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