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David Carr is average

the wonger need food

the wonger need food

All Pro
For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.

He has proven to be a very average QB. Has he shown anyone that he has the mentality to be great some day? Yes he gets hit a lot and still plays, big deal, a lot of QB's do that. The organization should seriously consider bringing someone in to challenge him for his job. I remember when they drafted Henson someone from the team had to make a call to him to explain. Forget that, he should have to perform to keep his job just like the rest of us.
 
the wonger need food said:
I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.
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You don't know what happened?? :fib

Tell me. Where exactly did you sense any presence of a pocket?
 
He is average at this point of his career, that doesn't mean he is destined to stay an average QB. I think he has a ton of upside, excellent mobility, live arm, and durable. A bad O-line can make ANY QB look bad. This is even more of an issue for a young QB who you are trying to develop. A lot of young QB's pick up bad habits they can't shake as a sort of shell shock from the beating they take. Quite frankly, I'm sure he is a bit jumpy from getting little or no protection all year. Fix the O-line and see what a diff it will be. Next year, a healthy DD, Wells, and Hollings. Upgrade the TE spot, so he has another target in the passing game, but one who can block as well when needed. The problem was you'd leave a TE in on protection, and often have the RB protect as well, with less guys in the pattern and Carr still on his back. A bit demoralizing no? You could also use a complement to AJ, someone to stretch the field and take some of the D pressure off of AJ. That way that cant rotate coverage to his side and lock down one half of the field. More creative play calling certainly couldn't hurt either. Yes, Carr was average, BUT he is not an average journeyman type of QB. I think he will elevate his game once he has some pieces around him, primarily the O-line.
 
I think Chawky summed it up perfectly. The O-line needs major help in the off-season.

And in our next draft, forget this noise of "picking the best available athlete". We need good, young athletes for the offensive line.
 
pek281 said:
I think Chawky summed it up perfectly. The O-line needs major help in the off-season.

And in our next draft, forget this noise of "picking the best available athlete". We need good, young athletes for the offensive line.
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That strategy sort of worries me though. Many times when you reach, you end up with a bust. Picking the best available player is generally accepted as the best way to go, whether you are a perennial powerhouse or a bottom feeder. Look at the Patriots, picked low of course from the SB win, but picked up a TON of depth and they are as good as they were last year. In fact, if not for the injuries to like everyone on their D, they'd probably be better than the team that won the SB last year. This is a perfect example of what drafting best available does for you.

I think you guys need to be active in free agency. Sit down, evaluate your own roster and cut loose all the dead weight. Upgrade as many spots as possible through free agency to gain more flexibility in the draft. Going in knowing you need like one lineman is one thing, but going in with a shopping list saying we need an LT, C, RG, DT, DE, etc. is a sure fire way to disaster. I hope you guys have a good front office and take care of as many problems as possible prior to the draft. It's not good to be picking middle of the pack with glaring, gaping holes that must be filled when its your turn to pick and somehow a blue chip WR has fallen to your slot, but then taking a projected 2nd-3rd LT because he is the only LT left on the board who has graded higher than like the 5th round, ya know. :hmmm:
 
He's average with a horrible offensive line, which means he's well above average to do that well with what he has.

If the Oline were to protect him just 1 or 2 more seconds on a pass play, we'd see him shine.
 
the wonger need food said:
For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.

He has proven to be a very average QB. Has he shown anyone that he has the mentality to be great some day? Yes he gets hit a lot and still plays, big deal, a lot of QB's do that. The organization should seriously consider bringing someone in to challenge him for his job. I remember when they drafted Henson someone from the team had to make a call to him to explain. Forget that, he should have to perform to keep his job just like the rest of us.
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Dude you just don't get it. I watched the game again and on the first drive that we scored the offensive line protected him and he was able to complete passes to OPEN receivers. For the most part for the rest of the game the pocket was collapsing around him(he didn't really have a pocket and time enough to locate open recievers if they were open I can't really tell you). He shows me when he has time to throw that hes is a very good QB, that my opinion. I will be watching most games again. Carr next year if we have a better line he will show you.

Oh by the way how can he have pocket presence when there is NO pocket?

:loser :thud:
 
Average for now. We'll see what happens when he gets more time to throw. Should progress next season. Kinda looks like Eli Manning right now struggling with the O-line. I'd like to see him become more of a leader and get consistent with his reads. Doesn't look comfortable throwing into coverage. If things don't pan out, Vince Young, nuff said.
 
the wonger need food said:
...At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season...
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I took your advice and looked back at the games. Over the 1st seven games, Carr was sacked 16 times. The Texans record was 4-3 & Carr had 4 games with a 100+ passer rating. The 2.3 sacks allowed by the Texans matched the league average. Carr's 9.2 yards/attempt was 2nd only to Daunte Culpepper.

From then on, Carr was sacked 33 times. The Texans record was 3-6 & Carr had zero games with a 100+ passer rating and 2 games with a passer rating below 40. Carr finished the year sacked more than any other QB. Other teams allowed more sacks than the Texans did, but those teams had QBs that couldn't play the entire season. Carr was the "last man standing", and his yards/attempt for the final 9 games dropped to 6.3.

What does this tell me? That if Carr is allowed just average protection, he is one of the better QBs in the league & the Texans can have a winning record. But if Carr is allowed to be sacked at a league high rate, he's not good & the Texans will lose.

Now maybe, just maybe, you could convince a veteran QB to come play behind this O-line. Maybe not. But I'll tell you, there aren't many QBs that are successful while being sacked 3.5 times a game. I would prefer the Texans use their time & resources to improve and develop the offensive line rather than signing and working a new QB into the system. That's just the way I see it.
 
I think the QB exposed his weakness on Sunday and tried to cover up when he took a big hit late on when he had had enough, Banks came in and made an easy play & the line and the pocket held, and Carr almost trip over himself trying to get back into it,

so the manager has to decide can David really cut it, I think not, the rest of the team is improving but is David? Good arm, strength, etc all count, but where is the quickness of thought, and the game awareness of a brilliant QB?

The thumping of the ground in frustration reflected poorly on him, this is a team game, and he let the team down. With only a handful of competitive games a season (compared to other sports) do the Texans have the luxury of giving him another couple of seasons to come good? I hope the frailties of the QB don't result in whole scale changes to the team.
 
Well after only a few yrs on the team, Why would he be expected to be another Brett Farve right off the bat?? He's still growing like the rest of the team...Right now Carr needs an o-line to compliment him until he gets to be a stronger QB...I think we all know he has the potential to be explosive...Maybe this coming season he will...I haven't given up on him yet.
 
What is your point? Carr has shown progress. He is in the middle of the pack with a passer rating of 83.5 Everyone knows he makes mistakes. But its a team effort. There are a ton of teams who would love to have Carr. Just be glad we arent one of them.
 
Bank came in last year and everyone thought he did well.....until the o-line couldn't protect him and he went down. See a pattern here?
 
texanbrit said:
I think the QB exposed his weakness on Sunday and tried to cover up when he took a big hit late on when he had had enough, Banks came in and made an easy play & the line and the pocket held, and Carr almost trip over himself trying to get back into it,

so the manager has to decide can David really cut it, I think not, the rest of the team is improving but is David? Good arm, strength, etc all count, but where is the quickness of thought, and the game awareness of a brilliant QB?

The thumping of the ground in frustration reflected poorly on him, this is a team game, and he let the team down. With only a handful of competitive games a season (compared to other sports) do the Texans have the luxury of giving him another couple of seasons to come good? I hope the frailties of the QB don't result in whole scale changes to the team.
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:rofl:
one more time for the record, Banks through a five yard dump off to Davis just as I said he would when he came into the game. DD escaped the tackle and turned into a 17 yard gain.
 
I've read on a lot of posts that we need to get a QB in here that can challenge David for the starting QB position (in not so many words). Are you talking about drafting or looking into the FA market?

If you're talking about drafting, let me ask why? Why would you waste a draft pick? Why wouldn't you draft an O-lineman, D-lineman, or even second WR to AJ?

I wouldn't mind seeing Carr being challenged for his job, just not at the expense of a draft pick.
 
This challenging Carr for his job thing is ridiculous. How about we challenge each of our O linemen for their jobs? I think that might work.
 
texan279 said:
This challenging Carr for his job thing is ridiculous. How about we challenge each of our O linemen for their jobs? I think that might work.
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Whole-Heartedly Agree!!! Get some drills going in the offseason, obstacle courses, anything.
 
Why would you not want to challenge him for his job? Competition makes players better.

I know that it's politically incorrect to hold Carr accountable for anything, but I can't help myself.
 
And like I said in the other post, who challenges him for the job, Dave Ragone? :shocked If you bring in another QB to challenge Carr for his job all you will be doing is spending money on a veteran QB that no other team wants who will have to come in and learn our offense and our system and will most likely ride the bench anyways.
 
TexansFan#80 said:
I would love to see Carr challenged. I just don't want to see it done through the use of a draft pick.
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Yeah, that's a tough one.

They will probably have to get D and O line help through free agency to fix those problems immediately. Maybe pick up a speedy receiver in round 1 to take Bradford's spot and compliment Johnson. Then use their 2nd round choice on a QB. Either way they are going to need a reliable backup with Banks leaving. And Ragone is terrible.

What if Carr tears an ACL or keeps regressing like he did the second half of this season, what are we left with?
 
What about BJ Symons. I know he's nothing special, but he did have an awesome year at Texs Tech. I'm not sure how'd he fare in the NFL. He has knee surgery this past season and has been doing rehab. He would be someone to definately get into the mix. Maybe not necessarily challenge Carr for the starting job, but he'd be a decent backup.
 
Hulk75 said:
IS EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD MENTALY STUPID THE GUY IS GOING NO WERE. BOB MCNAIR: YESTERDAY SAID " DAVID IS GOING TO LEAD OUR TEAM FOR MANY YEARS". SO GET BEHIND HIM AND STOP ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF HEAD CASES! :hairpull: UNBELIEVABLE!
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Dang... busted a caps lock on us. You must really love Carr.
 
the wonger need food said:
Why would you not want to challenge him for his job? Competition makes players better.

I know that it's politically incorrect to hold Carr accountable for anything, but I can't help myself.
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Yeah, the NFL is full of situations where open competitions for the quarterback position are good for team chemistry. :rofl:
 
the wonger need food said:
Yeah, that's a tough one.

Then use their 2nd round choice on a QB. Either way they are going to need
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Give me a freak'n break a 2nd round choice on a QB (already spent a 3rd pick on Ragone worked out great huh?), how stupid is that. Yeah our free agent o-line is working out great. We need lineman through the draft and only top talent lineman through FA. Lets see Carr w/ time over a 100 passer rating and 4-3 record. Carr w/ no time 3-6. Yeah the QB is the problem. :hmmm: I'm not saying he's HOF, but w/ a line he's above average. You put any QB in the situation he was in the 2nd half and none succeed. AJ needs a complement and we need help on both lines. It will come together if our front office makes the right moves. Get off his back, would you rather have Harrington.
 
the wonger need food said:
Why would you not want to challenge him for his job? Competition makes players better.

I know that it's politically incorrect to hold Carr accountable for anything, but I can't help myself.
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Calm down, every one understands that Carr makes mistakes, he has happy feet, he checks down to DD far too often, he rushes his throws under pressure, but what would you do, you get out there and get sacked more than any other QB has, continually get knocked down and have to run for your life and see how you take it, see how comfident you are in your pass protection. Im astonished that he has gone this long without ending up on ESPN talking about how horrible his O-line is, hes sat back there and taken a beating but not once have I ever heard him in an interview talk about his weak offensive line play offecting his performance.

No Carr is not average, he is great at leading his team, he has a killer arm, good accuracy, a brilliant deep ball, he can hit the open receiver in stride, and he can squeez the ball between coverage. He has done a damn good job makeing plays even with one of the worst pass protecting O-lines in the NFL.
 
...after reading this, does anyone else think ESPN is gonna save some money and replay that Texans commercial again where there is no offensive line?
 
the wonger need food said:
Harrington has been just as average as Carr. Their stats are basically identical except Joey has 12 more TD passes.
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Do you still want to use our 2 rnd pick on a QB? Okay Harrington has 12 more TD's and has a better line, 2 deep threats and the Lions still can't win. We are winning more games. We need a better line and more consistency. Then if Carr is bad then I'll agree w/ you that he is average, until then I thoroughly disagree.
 
:survivor:

Where is that beating a dead horse smilie when you need it ?
Except the horse is pretty much unrecognizable by know.

Don't totally write off Ragone as a bust. If we were to suddenly figure out the art of pass blocking and then have to put him in he might do ok.

Palmer was the guy that made Rob Johnson (at least he didn't sign with us) look so good that Jacksonville traded him for a 1st round draft choice. Of course since then Palmer has forgotten everything he once knew about offense :)
 
It's like arguing if I could please Pam Andersn or not. We can argue all day, but until she's in my bedroom and willing, we'll never know.

So let's fix the O-Line and see :shocked
 
Let's compare him to big Ben for a second. The Steelers carried that boy all season. Carr is having to carry a great deal of the load, but not all. So Carr is good and in time will be the next Elway..... :howdy:
 
the wonger need food said:
For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.
Click to expand...

Do you play for the Texans O Line?
 
the wonger need food said:
For everyone out there who thinks that David Carr makes no mistakes and the offensive line is blame for all of the Texans woes, check yourself. At least go back and look at the games. He has stunk it up the second half of this season. Stats don't necessarily win games, but his have fallen drastically. I don't know what happened but he lost all sense of a pocket presence.
Click to expand...

Do you play for the Texans O Line? :hmmm:
 
pek281 said:
I think Chawky summed it up perfectly. The O-line needs major help in the off-season.
And in our next draft, forget this noise of "picking the best available athlete". We need good, young athletes for the offensive line.
Click to expand...
In the 1984 NBA college draft, Houston selected Akeem Olajuwon with its first pick - can't go wrong with that pick. The second pick belonged to the Portland Trail Blazers, and they picked according to their needs. Their main need was at center and accordingly, they drafted 7'1" center Sam
Bowie out of Kentucky, instead of selecting a skinny, but truly gifted shooting guard from the U of North Carolina who was drafted with the next pick by Chicago. He was clearly considered the best player available when Portland picked, but they needed a center. Bowie ended up having a lengthy, but less than sensational NBA career. The player the Bulls drafted went on to be the greatest of all time: he was of course Michael Jordan.
Even though its the NBA and not NFL, its still instructive to recall this well known piece of NBA history when considering drafting on the basis of "need" vs. "Best Player Available".
 
Elway:

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld Rate
1983 Denver Broncos 11 0 259 123 47.5 1663 6.42 0 7 14 0/0 54.9
1984 Denver Broncos 15 0 380 214 56.3 2598 6.84 0 18 15 0/0 76.8
1985 Denver Broncos 16 0 605 327 54.0 3891 6.43 0 22 23 0/0 70.2

Carr:

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld Rate
2002 Houston Texans 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 76/411 62.8
2003 Houston Texans 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 15/90 69.5
2004 Houston Texans 16 16 466 285 61.2 3531 7.58 69 16 14 49/301 83.5

Aikman:

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Rate
1989 Dallas Cowboys 11 11 293 155 52.9 1749 6.0 75 9 18 55.7
1990 Dallas Cowboys 15 15 399 226 56.6 2579 6.5 61 11 18 66.6
1991 Dallas Cowboys 12 12 363 237 65.3 2754 7.6 61 11 10 86.7


It's a bit early to give up on the guy don't ya think?
 
nunusguy said:
In the 1984 NBA college draft, Houston selected Akeem Olajuwon with its first pick - can't go wrong with that pick. The second pick belonged to the Portland Trail Blazers, and they picked according to their needs. Their main need was at center and accordingly, they drafted 7'1" center Sam
Bowie out of Kentucky, instead of selecting a skinny, but truly gifted shooting guard from the U of North Carolina who was drafted with the next pick by Chicago. He was clearly considered the best player available when Portland picked, but they needed a center. Bowie ended up having a lengthy, but less than sensational NBA career. The player the Bulls drafted went on to be the greatest of all time: he was of course Michael Jordan.
Even though its the NBA and not NFL, its still instructive to recall this well known piece of NBA history when considering drafting on the basis of "need" vs. "Best Player Available".
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good stuff there nunusguy.
 
nunusguy said:
In the 1984 NBA college draft, Houston selected Akeem Olajuwon with its first pick - can't go wrong with that pick. The second pick belonged to the Portland Trail Blazers, and they picked according to their needs. Their main need was at center and accordingly, they drafted 7'1" center Sam
Bowie out of Kentucky, instead of selecting a skinny, but truly gifted shooting guard from the U of North Carolina who was drafted with the next pick by Chicago. He was clearly considered the best player available when Portland picked, but they needed a center. Bowie ended up having a lengthy, but less than sensational NBA career. The player the Bulls drafted went on to be the greatest of all time: he was of course Michael Jordan.
Even though its the NBA and not NFL, its still instructive to recall this well known piece of NBA history when considering drafting on the basis of "need" vs. "Best Player Available".
Click to expand...

One of these day the average fan will realize the draft is more about talent acquisition than we need _____ so the best blank is____ so he is the right draft choice no matter what.

Good stuff Nuns
 
he may still be a little immature but he has a great arm and can thread the needle. i still say he is good in the clutch.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
One of these day the average fan will realize the draft is more about talent acquisition than we need _____ so the best blank is____ so he is the right draft choice no matter what.

Good stuff Nuns
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Wow, never realized you were such an optimist. Good post Nunus.
 
I'm very happy w/David Carr. Is he perfect, No, but he's pretty talented/tough and with a bit more talent on offense he may just be special. Patience is a virture, especially w/QBs.
 
If's and but's, candy and nuts.

I hope that he someday becomes better than average or even great, but set your myopic lenses and excuses aside and look at the stats and his performances on the field this year. HE WAS AVERAGE! That's all I'm saying. If someone can provide some factual evidence to show otherwise please do so.
 
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