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Current O-Line Stats Breakdown
- Thread starter TEXANS84
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Runner said:
Yes. The total sacks for Carr/Banks/Ragone was 36. Other than in the context of the total joke that is now our pass protection I would say that while 36 was a huge improvement that year it did not fully reflect all the pressure on the QB which was still above NFL average and was at a cost of quite a few penalties. Right now it still looks freakin' good. Vinny correctly identified Carr's propensity to run out of bounds in 2002--in 2003 Carr almost entirely corrected that. It has snuck back into his repertoire, but in a lessor fashion--he used to run out 5+ yds behing the line of scrimmage, now it is 0 and 1.
Coach C.
Veteran
blockhead83 said:I think when McKinney decided to double the tackle instead of blocking Bullock's direct path to David Carr, he should be attributed with 1 full sack
By the way that was not McKinney's block. If you look at the scheme that we were going with on that pass it was Weigert's block. They likely split it in half, which is a little unfair to McKinney.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
I was just going to point out Carr and his sacks, but Infantry beat me to it. I've stated this before but it's no big deal for Carr to get a sack when he runs out of bounds either at or right before the scrimmage line, the result is the same, it's a minimal loss, not like a sack where the defender gets into the pocket. DD needs to step up his pass protection and assignments. If McKinney was supposed to to double with the LG then DD needed to pick up that blitzer.
Current updated stats:
LT Chester Pitts:
7 games
0 false starts
2.75 sacks allowed
1 holding
LG Steve McKinney
7 games
1 false starts
4.25 sacks allowed
0 holding
C Drew Hodgdon
3 games (2 GS)
0 false starts
0.50 sacks allowed
2 holding
RG Milford Brown
4 games (3 GS)
2 false starts
2.00 sacks allowed
1 holding
RT Todd Wade
7 games
4 false starts
6.00 sacks allowed
1 holding
***Reserve/Injured***
LT Victor Riley
6 games (4 GS)
2 false starts
6.50 sacks allowed
0 holding
RG Zach Weigert
5 games
0 false starts
0.50 sacks allowed
0 holding
LT Chester Pitts:
7 games
0 false starts
2.75 sacks allowed
1 holding
LG Steve McKinney
7 games
1 false starts
4.25 sacks allowed
0 holding
C Drew Hodgdon
3 games (2 GS)
0 false starts
0.50 sacks allowed
2 holding
RG Milford Brown
4 games (3 GS)
2 false starts
2.00 sacks allowed
1 holding
RT Todd Wade
7 games
4 false starts
6.00 sacks allowed
1 holding
***Reserve/Injured***
LT Victor Riley
6 games (4 GS)
2 false starts
6.50 sacks allowed
0 holding
RG Zach Weigert
5 games
0 false starts
0.50 sacks allowed
0 holding
i totally agree with markbeth on this...we definitly should spend 2-3 high picks on o-lineman...the way i see it our draft should look something like this
1st. ferguson
2nd. either top o-lineman or top 4-3 DE
3rd. top TE
3rd. top o-lineman or top 4-3 OLB
4th. top o-lineman
5-7th either trade for better players or bpa
our offensive line next year should look different no matter what happens...they need to figure out if mckinney is worth keeping around as a guard as well as Wade...i mean if we drop both mckinney and wade we could see us drafting two tackles in a row in the draft probably being whitworth in the second round giving us two rookies as tackles...not the most comfortable idea but one that could happen...if we keep wade i think we have to restructure his deal because he's not playing up to his pay...and even with drafting ferguson in the 1st round i'd say keep pitts at LT for atleast half the season...letting ferguson play LG til he's ready to take the full load...maybe even letting him play RT for a game or two before taking the full load at LT
1st. ferguson
2nd. either top o-lineman or top 4-3 DE
3rd. top TE
3rd. top o-lineman or top 4-3 OLB
4th. top o-lineman
5-7th either trade for better players or bpa
our offensive line next year should look different no matter what happens...they need to figure out if mckinney is worth keeping around as a guard as well as Wade...i mean if we drop both mckinney and wade we could see us drafting two tackles in a row in the draft probably being whitworth in the second round giving us two rookies as tackles...not the most comfortable idea but one that could happen...if we keep wade i think we have to restructure his deal because he's not playing up to his pay...and even with drafting ferguson in the 1st round i'd say keep pitts at LT for atleast half the season...letting ferguson play LG til he's ready to take the full load...maybe even letting him play RT for a game or two before taking the full load at LT
S
SESupergenius
Guest
Hodg seems to be doing ok, or that McKinney is better at the LG spot than center. I havnt kept my eye on the center spot too much but I did see Hodge on a running play where he was sealing the lane pretty well and boxing the guys from getting to DD. It's just one play but I was impressed at his technique.
utahmark
markbeth
keyfro said:
mckinney is probably gone cause of his play and salary capp. he is gonna cost us about 4 mil to keep and hardly anything to let go(less than a mil). wade will probably stay because of the cap. although his play has not been good, it would cost us a fortune to drop him.
R
real
Guest
i say keep top three o-lineman as starters and spen first two draft picks on two that could come in and start
I'm really anxious to see how the OL does this weekend in FLA against a strong Jags D. But I'm hopeful to with Brown at RG, the rook at Center, McKinney at LG, and Pitts back at LT since they had a few weeks to play together. Be interesting to see who's the odd man out when Weigert returns.
I dunno....with all the criticism of Wade, maybe they'll drop him and put Weigert out at RT and leave the aforementioned foursome in as starters if they are reasonably satisfied with the groups performance.
Weigert has, after all, experience in the NFL at tackle and won the Outland at Nebraska at that position.
I dunno....with all the criticism of Wade, maybe they'll drop him and put Weigert out at RT and leave the aforementioned foursome in as starters if they are reasonably satisfied with the groups performance.
Weigert has, after all, experience in the NFL at tackle and won the Outland at Nebraska at that position.
An All-pro RG is a luxury for us at this point if he can be a competant tackle.keyfro said:
Afterall, most feel long with CP that Weigert is one of our 2 best OL - shouldn't they both be playing tackle if they have experience there and the
people currently playing tackle aren't effective ?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't forget folks, Wiegert was played at RT when he 1st arrived at the Texans. It wasn't anything above mediocre. He is a much better G than T.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If Pitts can handle LT. I'd consider taking Bush with my 1st pick and the next two picks on OL .If Bush runs the 40 in Mathis's range with more skills ... and AJ came in second as the NFL's fastest man and he's 3rd fastest on the Texans (if you draft Bush ) . All you would need is OK pass blocking and an OC who's willing to open up and they would be scary .
utahmark
markbeth
Honoring Earl 34 said:
If Bush runs the 40 in Mathis's range with more skills ... and AJ came in second as the NFL's fastest man and he's 3rd fastest on the Texans (if you draft Bush ) . All you would need is OK pass blocking and an OC who's willing to open up and they would be scary .
i cant understand why anyone would wont to draft a rb. when that has been our best and deepest postion on the team this year. and we have so many other holes to fill.
Coach C.
Veteran
Markbeth I doubt earl is projecting bush as a runningback. He would be a nice WR in the mold of Steve Smith. you cannot argue with that. He has hands, maybe speed. I am on the fence right now because no one has worked out. I like Winston alot and Bush is just a gamebreaker(you can never have to many). I think we need alot of players and that is likely not going to be solved through one offseason of drafting and freeagency.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Runner said:
IMO this was an interesting question as well:
Thru 5 games at LG, Pitts gave up 2.5 sacks. Thru 2.5 games at LT and .5 back at LG, Pitts gave up .25 sacks more. He did add one holding call. Watching him at LT, he takes on his man solo the vast majority of the time. That has allowed McKinney to double up with Hodg helping both Hodg and McKinney out. With Riley in, Pitts was having to help Riley out a lot and that left McKinney more exposed.
Clearly having a horrid LT next to him contributed to his sacks at LG, but I really wonder if the next regime shouldn't take a hard look at him as the long term solution at RT. He is as good a run blocker as Wade and is much better able to handle speed rushers like Mathis from Indy.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Just noticed something and wanted to point out how epicly bad the pass protection has been this year. The Texans have currently recorded 43 sacks thru 8 games. Go ahead and throw out 20 sacks as entirely Carr's fault (not a realistic number IMO, but let's be generous to everyone else). That leaves 23 sacks in 8 games. That would still leave us in 24th spot in pass protection and 6 sacks away from even being mediocre on pass protection. That's after throwing out 20 sacks. Wow, that's bad.
infantrycak said:
How many total sacks did we have last year? 48? Same QB and RBs, so probably somewhere near the same ratio being the o-line's fault. Halfway through this season and with 43 we are almost there. Wow.
AND we are running less effectively.
I think the line was better last year.
Here are some stats I've found interesting about the line progress the past few weeks:
Team/sacks/yards lost
@Buffalo-sacked 5 times-45 yards lost
Pittsburgh-sacked 8 times-59 yards lost
@Cincinnatti-sacked 7 times-46 yards lost
Tennessee-sacked 7 times-35 yards lost
*Wiegert goes down, Riley pulled from LT
@Seattle-sacked 3 times-19 yards lost
Indianapolis-sacked 5 times-42 yards lost
Cleveland-sacked 2 times-18 yards lost
*Hodgdon goes down in Jax, more adjustments
@Jacksonville-sacked 6 times-28 yards lost
@Indianapolis-sacked 3 times-12 yards lost
Kansas City-sacked 1 time-1 yard lost
St. Louis-sacked 3 times-5 yards lost
Now have we found a good key in the offensive line with Pitts at LT? Or has the offense adjusted to get the ball out of David's hands quicker to avoid the sack?
Discuss...
Team/sacks/yards lost
@Buffalo-sacked 5 times-45 yards lost
Pittsburgh-sacked 8 times-59 yards lost
@Cincinnatti-sacked 7 times-46 yards lost
Tennessee-sacked 7 times-35 yards lost
*Wiegert goes down, Riley pulled from LT
@Seattle-sacked 3 times-19 yards lost
Indianapolis-sacked 5 times-42 yards lost
Cleveland-sacked 2 times-18 yards lost
*Hodgdon goes down in Jax, more adjustments
@Jacksonville-sacked 6 times-28 yards lost
@Indianapolis-sacked 3 times-12 yards lost
Kansas City-sacked 1 time-1 yard lost
St. Louis-sacked 3 times-5 yards lost
Now have we found a good key in the offensive line with Pitts at LT? Or has the offense adjusted to get the ball out of David's hands quicker to avoid the sack?
Discuss...
Texans Horror
All Pro
Riley was a huge mistake at LT, so moving Pitts to LT was a definite upgrade. Carr passing faster also helped. So I would say both. But the latter is no solution.
TSgt.Texan
Noob
I don't know if Pitts is the anwser but against the Rams we did have time to go down field. So he was getting some time to look deep, then the second half started and I don't know who made the call but we stop attacking their corners deep.
Texans Horror
All Pro
The Rams defensive line made our guys in the trenches look good. One of the reason it's a shoulda, coulda, woulda game IMO.
TEXANS84 said:
Of course there was drastic improvement. Riley is nothing more than a figment of Pendry's imagination.
The line last year - which was the same as the line at the start of this year except for the replacement of Wand with Riley - gave up around 48 sacks, as opposed to the 121 we were heading for with Riley.
The line last year also played the whole year with an offense not geared 90% to preventing sacks, and without consistent double teaming schemes on any defensive ends. We could also run more effectively last year.
Last year's line was better. We look "good" now only because we were so pathetic at the beginning of the year.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
We still don't have a good running, so don't fool yourself. Our passing woes are only half of the equation. People tend to focus too much on the olines passing inabilities and are blinded by their lack of run blocking capabilites. How many times have we seen this team not make a 3rd and short?
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Actually the offensive lines best year was 2003 when they cut the sacks back to 35. Not great but not horrible either. Coming from 76 sacks the year before it's outstanding.
Then in 2004 the sacks went back up to 50. That was Pendrys first year coaching our offensive line and Seth Wands first season starting at LT.
Then in 2004 the sacks went back up to 50. That was Pendrys first year coaching our offensive line and Seth Wands first season starting at LT.
Hervoyel said:
Very true.
Say this year Wand starts and cuts his 12 sacks in half to 6 for his second (playing) year improvement (which is less of an improvement than Pitts had his second year, so probably doable) and we're down to 42, and then count on some improvement from the other guys. However, Wand was replaced by a guy who was on pace to give up around 26 sacks by himself at left tackle, and the offense is still coached by a guy who can't make the individual lineman any better.
I give Pendry some credit for finally installing double teaming schemes against Freeney and other ends. I discredit him for not having that acumen last year. Come to think of it, maybe Marshall is the guy responsible for the double teaming.
Last year's line was better at run blocking, and the most successful running was behind the duo of Pitts/Wand. Another year of experience for Wand and the running would have improved this year too.
The "starting Victor Riley at LT" was an incredible error in judgment ranking
right in there with another Texans' classic, trading this years 2nd and 3rd round picks for one Phillip Buchanan. Atleast we can reverse the Riley experiment, but the 2 first day picks are gone forever.
right in there with another Texans' classic, trading this years 2nd and 3rd round picks for one Phillip Buchanan. Atleast we can reverse the Riley experiment, but the 2 first day picks are gone forever.
nunusguy said:
Reversing it will be good, but totally reversing it appears will have to wait until next year since he's still starting. Our o-line will always start to fold in the second half as long as he's playing, because he is visibly huffing and puffing by the third quarter. He's hidden a little more on the inside, but I have an idea that the d-lineman can see what's going on.
I dunno.....the musical chairs situation at LT is all Capers fault, because it now appears that Casserly had made the right player acquisition way back in
2002. Capers and his assistants just failed to develope and play him as they
should have. First Wand in 2004, then a deeper regression this year with Riley. If Capers and his people would have just left Chester where he started
out at, no telling how much difference they may have made in 2004 and this
year. And you gotta give Casserly an atta boy for selecting Chester way back in 2002 - many said that was not worth a second round pick.
2002. Capers and his assistants just failed to develope and play him as they
should have. First Wand in 2004, then a deeper regression this year with Riley. If Capers and his people would have just left Chester where he started
out at, no telling how much difference they may have made in 2004 and this
year. And you gotta give Casserly an atta boy for selecting Chester way back in 2002 - many said that was not worth a second round pick.
