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Could Vince Young ever achieve success here?

b0ng said:
If somebody posted on this forum that white guys can't run fast or jump high and therefore should be relagated to linemans positions and QB, it'd be just as racist.
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Or ... it may be based on their own observations and opinion and completely viable. I personally would have no problem with that comment, other than they forgot to include most of us have no rhythm and cant dance for ****. All generalized statements, but holding some semblance of validity depending on the persons personal history.

The difference to me between racism and experience is intent. My comments are based on my life experiences and observations, with no ill intent. If I had not personally witnessed what I voiced my opinion about, I would not have been able to form said opinion.
 
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b0ng said:
Stating an anecdote as some sort of proof that should allow you to say racist things about black people doesn't make it right no matter how much you complain about "PC". If somebody posted on this forum that white guys can't run fast or jump high and therefore should be relagated to linemans positions and QB, it'd be just as racist.

Have fun wearing your sheet and hood tonight while you extoll the racial downfalls of african american athletes.

edit: you'd fit right in with these guys quite well.
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Isn't there a movie out there named White Men Cant Jump?

Is that racist? I liked the movie BTW.
 
kingtexan said:
Thanks for the neg rep but the statement wasn't racist. Most of the interviews I have seen with African-American players, sportscasters, talking head ex-athletes, etc. they do not have an accurate knowledge of the English language, or maybe they just think it is cool to talk ghetto. Either way they come across as being illiterate. Get mad at me if you want, but you should be mad at their teachers, coaches and parents. If you are a part of society that wants to be perceived differently .. do something to change the perception.
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Of course it wasn't racist...to YOU.

I hate the neg rep function on this board, and I have never used it, until now. What you wrote was offensive and racist, and being "PC" has nothing to do with it.
 
houstonspartan said:
Of course it wasn't racist...to YOU.

I hate the neg rep function on this board, and I have never used it, until now. What you wrote was offensive and racist, and being "PC" has nothing to do with it.
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That is your opinion, and I respect it. But its wrong. It wasn't anything other than an opinion based on my personal observations and experience. Sorry you cant see the difference.
 
steelbtexan said:
Isn't there a movie out there named White Men Cant Jump?

Is that racist? I liked the movie BTW.
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Is the title racist? Or the movie? Can one be racist & not the other?

& as far as kingtexan's statement goes I think that's part for the course for most players... Mike Golic murders the English language everyday & Greg Koch... Ted Johnson... even though Koch has a law degree you wouldn't know it listening to him talk...

But kingtexan made it a point to single out African-American athletes... I wonder what Cushing plans to do after football.

& Vince Young... yeah that's another level of stupid & it's not fair or honest to drag all other African-American athletes down to that level.
 
kingtexan said:
Or ... it may be based on their own observations and opinion and completely viable. I personally would have no problem with that comment, other than they forgot to include most of us have no rhythm and cant dance for ****. All generalized statements, but holding some semblance of validity depending on the persons personal history.

The difference to me between racism and experience is intent. My comments are based on my life experiences and observations, with no ill intent. If I had not personally witnessed what I voiced my opinion about, I would not have been able to form said opinion.
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Um no, you can unintentionally say completely racist things. Also, blanket statements about race are always wrong and based completely on prejudices and personal biases.

So yeah, you are a racist, good job guy. I'm sure you wouldn't tell terrell suggs or any other black athlete that you think they cannot speak the english language because you observed it in your lifetime.

EDIT: The title to the movie White Men Can't Jump is based on a racist statement that has been said many times about white guys, and is used as a juxtaposition because in the movie, Woody Harrelson plays a white guy who is really good at basketball (even though he cannot dunk in the movie). The movie itself is not really racist in nature but it's a movie and not some idiot spouting his dumb opinion on the internet.
 
thunderkyss said:
Is the title racist? Or the movie? Can one be racist & not the other?

& as far as kingtexan's statement goes I think that's part for the course for most players... Mike Golic murders the English language everyday & Greg Koch... Ted Johnson... even though Koch has a law degree you wouldn't know it listening to him talk...

But kingtexan made it a point to single out African-American athletes... I wonder what Cushing plans to do after football.

& Vince Young... yeah that's another level of stupid & it's not fair or honest to drag all other African-American athletes down to that level.
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Is racist =racist? It is what it is.

My question is what if a movie were to be made titled Black Men Cant think? (Not true) Then had a lot of VY types saying/doing stupid crap? Would it be funny? Yes Would it be racist? Yes IMHO

Should there ever be titles of movies made like this? Of course not regardless of whether you're black/White/Green etc.... But Hollywood makes the movies anyway. I wonder why?
 
b0ng said:
EDIT: The title to the movie White Men Can't Jump is based on a racist statement that has been said many times about white guys, and is used as a juxtaposition because in the movie, Woody Harrelson plays a white guy who is really good at basketball (even though he cannot dunk in the movie). The movie itself is not really racist in nature but it's a movie and not some idiot spouting his dumb opinion on the internet.
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That movie is probably one of the more "real" discussions we've had about race in a long time.

Part of the movie is about how they used that stereotype to scam people who believe such stereotypes.


Throughout the movie the truth was juxtaposed next to the truth. Really good movie
 
thunderkyss said:
That movie is probably one of the more "real" discussions we've had about race in a long time.

Part of the movie is about how they used that stereotype to scam people who believe such stereotypes.


Throughout the movie the truth was juxtaposed next to the truth. Really good movie
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No they didn't. The stereotype they used to scam people would have been "White Men Can't Play Basketball Well" or something to that extent. Harrelson's character in the movie couldn't dunk and lost all his money to Snipes because he couldn't "jump".
 
b0ng said:
The only thing proven so far is that you're a racist. Congrats.



Of course using a blanket statement to describe large swaths of African Americans isn't racist.

When's the next Klan meeting?
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KKK message boards is that way ----------------->
 
kingtexan said:
Thanks for the neg rep but the statement wasn't racist. Most of the interviews I have seen with African-American players, sportscasters, talking head ex-athletes, etc. they do not have an accurate knowledge of the English language, or maybe they just think it is cool to talk ghetto. Either way they come across as being illiterate. Get mad at me if you want, but you should be mad at their teachers, coaches and parents. If you are a part of society that wants to be perceived differently .. do something to change the perception.
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Additional thought (not counterpoint). Please stop discouraging young men from USING their education by demeaning rhetoric claiming they are turning WHITE because they speak the language of the educated rather than ebonics.
 
b0ng said:
I'm sure you wouldn't tell terrell suggs or any other black athlete that you think they cannot speak the english language because you observed it in your lifetime.
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I would have no issue telling anyone that is supposedly college educated, makes millions of dollars, and still speaks in a street slang that they sound ignorant and are dong their culture a disservice.
 
ubecool454 said:
If you ever listen to Capt Bennys' fishing report on 610 in the early am I bet most of the callers speak good english to you.
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I do listen because I enjoy fishing, and most of the people sound like back-woods rednecks. However, I doubt any of them were handed college scholarships for hunting or fishing, so who knows their level of education. At least they aren't on TV and supposed to be examples for young men and women and still talking junior high smack.
 
kingtexan said:
I do listen because I enjoy fishing, and most of the people sound like back-woods rednecks. However, I doubt any of them were handed college scholarships for hunting or fishing, so who knows their level of education. At least they aren't on TV and supposed to be examples for young men and women and still talking junior high smack.
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I have a few questions that would be helpful if you could share your insight. Did you learn anything from listening to the fishing show hosts? Would you be less inclined to watch them on television because of the way they speak or would still watch to benefit from what they know about fishing? Even though they are considered experts in fishing should young mean and women be discouraged from listening because they are setting a bad example?

I would have no issue telling anyone that is supposedly college educated, makes millions of dollars, and still speaks in a street slang that they sound ignorant and are dong their culture a disservice.
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Does this mean that what a supposedly college educated, multimillionaire that speaks in street slang is a disservice to Dr. Ben Carson because they share the same race? OBTW, I understand that spelling errors do occur from time to time, but I'm more interested in the gist of what you're saying.
 
back on topic here....Yes I think Vince Young could have succeeded here in Houston...No I don not believe Vince Young could have succeeded in Gary Kubiaks offense...

For Young to have been successful, you would have need a Chip Kelley type offense that could create around his abilities...

but then again, there is the work ethic problem with VY...sooo....
 
Note to self...........

"talk ghetto" = You do not have an accurate knowledge of the English language and sound illiterate. (sound illiterate?? :thinking:)

"sound like back-woods rednecks" = Who knows your level of education?

I imagine it's tough to change perception without first getting a glossary of what standards go with which culture.
 
StarStruck said:
I have a few questions that would be helpful if you could share your insight. Did you learn anything from listening to the fishing show hosts? Would you be less inclined to watch them on television because of the way they speak or would still watch to benefit from what they know about fishing? Even though they are considered experts in fishing should young mean and women be discouraged from listening because they are setting a bad example?



Does this mean that what a supposedly college educated, multimillionaire that speaks in street slang is a disservice to Dr. Ben Carson because they share the same race? OBTW, I understand that spelling errors do occur from time to time, but I'm more interested in the gist of what you're saying.
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Never questioned anyone's expertise, or even their intellect. Only responded to a direct comment about the way a person speaks.

Amazing that he graduated college and can barely speak English.
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That was the only thing I referenced, was speech, and the perception it creates.
 
Showtime100 said:
Note to self...........

"talk ghetto" = You do not have an accurate knowledge of the English language and sound illiterate. (sound illiterate?? :thinking:)

"sound like back-woods rednecks" = Who knows your level of education?

I imagine it's tough to change perception without first getting a glossary of what standards go with which culture.
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Excellent observations.
 
infantrycak said:
Excellent observations.
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Really? What part?

I will just address the last part ...
I imagine it's tough to change perception without first getting a glossary of what standards go with which culture.
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I don't see that at all.

The standard should be "speak English", no matter what the culture.

I can talk ghetto and sound like a fool, or someone with a skin-tone other than pale can talk like a red-neck. Those categorizations are universal. The stigma lies with stereotypes created by a group of people all using the same terminology, and therefore establishing it as part of their particular culture.

The fact is stupidity, or the perception thereof, can be attributed to all cultures.
 
Marshall said:
Additional thought (not counterpoint). Please stop discouraging young men from USING their education by demeaning rhetoric claiming they are turning WHITE because they speak the language of the educated rather than ebonics.
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Now THAT, is an excellent observation.
 
b0ng said:
The only thing proven so far is that you're a racist. Congrats.



Of course using a blanket statement to describe large swaths of African Americans isn't racist.

When's the next Klan meeting?
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The problem with playing the race card every time you don't like something is that it loses it's impact when a real case emerges.

Generalizations are not in themselves racist. Ascribing those characteristics unfairly or to every member of the group may be. But save the big guns for when they are needed.
 
perhaps I should create a new forum called Ethic Cleansing talk. We can debate what is and isn't racist and not allow football talk of any kind. I can make it a sub-forum for the NSZ.
 
kingtexan said:
Really? What part?

I will just address the last part ...


I don't see that at all.

The standard should be "speak English", no matter what the culture.

I can talk ghetto and sound like a fool, or someone with a skin-tone other than pale can talk like a red-neck. Those categorizations are universal. The stigma lies with stereotypes created by a group of people all using the same terminology, and therefore establishing it as part of their particular culture.

The fact is stupidity, or the perception thereof, can be attributed to all cultures.
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True. But I'll admit someone saying "You're so articulate" is like fingernails on a blackboard to me. People rarely say that about someone who isn't black; although, I'll admit newscaster Edwin Newman, novelist Gore Vidal and pundit William F. Buckley WERE (may they rest in peace) some articulate muff-huggas.
 
Dread-Head said:
True. But I'll admit someone saying "You're so articulate" is like fingernails on a blackboard to me. People rarely say that about someone who isn't black; although, I'll admit newscaster Edwin Newman, novelist Gore Vidal and pundit William F. Buckley WERE (may they rest in peace) some articulate muff-huggas.
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you did come off as well spoken at the games. :barman:
 
Marshall said:
The problem with playing the race card every time you don't like something is that it loses it's impact when a real case emerges.

Generalizations are not in themselves racist. Ascribing those characteristics unfairly or to every member of the group may be. But save the big guns for when they are needed.
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I'm not a "racist" ...I hate EVERYBODY! :dread:
 
Dread-Head said:
True. But I'll admit someone saying "You're so articulate" is like fingernails on a blackboard to me. People rarely say that about someone who isn't black; although, I'll admit newscaster Edwin Newman, novelist Gore Vidal and pundit William F. Buckley WERE (may they rest in peace) some articulate muff-huggas.
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Barbara Jordan used to get the same compliments. I disagreed with her politics, but she made an impressive representative.
 
Dread-Head said:
He left early to play fuhbaaaawl! He was GIVEN every college credit he ever got. That chump didn't go to class.
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If true, when are these universities going to stop admitting unqualified students? That would put an end to any questions about unearned credits and degrees. If the universities are unwilling to comply to the academic standards that they put in place why complain if they include degrees as well. Why blame Vince for what They did? :)
 
StarStruck said:
If true, when are these universities going to stop admitting unqualified students? That would put an end to any questions about unearned credits and degrees. If the universities are unwilling to comply to the academic standards that they put in place why complain if they include degrees as well. Why blame Vince for what They did? :)
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When we "fans" stop making big time college sports (football and basketball mainly) the mega cash cows that they currently are and demand that education, not sports should be what universities should be about.

oh and good luck with that.
 
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