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College production comparisons DE/Edge

Texansphan

Football connoisseur
There's no predictor like stats.
Here are the top 7 De/Edge profiles:-
Aiden Hutchinson.
Games 36 : solo 85, ast 71, tot 156, loss 27.5, sak 17.5, ff 5.
Kayvon Thibodeaux.
G 30 : solo 84, ast 42, tot 126, loss 35.5 sak 19, ff 3.
Travon Walker.
G 29 : solo 32, ast 29, tot 61, loss 13, sak 9.5, ff 1
George Karlaftis.
G 26 : solo 61, ast 36, tot 97, loss 29, sak 14, ff 3
Jermaine Johnson.
G 28 : solo 53, ast 53, tot 106, loss 24.5, sak 18, ff 3
Arnold Ebiketie.
G 28 : solo 75, ast 45, tot 120, loss 28, sak 15.5, ff 5
David Ojabo.
G 14 : solo 25, ast 11, tot 36, loss 12, sak 11, ff 5

Draw your own conclusions, but there is one hyper hyped prospect in this group that has the worst stats and for mine, does not warrant that hype.
Can you spot who it is?
 
There's no predictor like stats.
Here are the top 7 De/Edge profiles:-
Aiden Hutchinson.
Games 36 : solo 85, ast 71, tot 156, loss 27.5, sak 17.5, ff 5.
Kayvon Thibodeaux.
G 30 : solo 84, ast 42, tot 126, loss 35.5 sak 19, ff 3.
Travon Walker.
G 29 : solo 32, ast 29, tot 61, loss 13, sak 9.5, ff 1
George Karlaftis.
G 26 : solo 61, ast 36, tot 97, loss 29, sak 14, ff 3
Jermaine Johnson.
G 28 : solo 53, ast 53, tot 106, loss 24.5, sak 18, ff 3
Arnold Ebiketie.
G 28 : solo 75, ast 45, tot 120, loss 28, sak 15.5, ff 5
David Ojabo.
G 14 : solo 25, ast 11, tot 36, loss 12, sak 11, ff 5

Draw your own conclusions, but there is one hyper hyped prospect in this group that has the worst stats and for mine, does not warrant that hype.
Can you spot who it is?
Walker?
 
Wow, Ojabo's stats are really good on a per game basis. If the Texans could pickup an extra 2nd, he could be a great investment for 2023. Needs a year in the weight room, anyway.
Would you draft him if he falls to #37? Or would you want him later than that?
 
There's no predictor like stats.
Here are the top 7 De/Edge profiles:-
Aiden Hutchinson.
Games 36 : solo 85, ast 71, tot 156, loss 27.5, sak 17.5, ff 5.
Kayvon Thibodeaux.
G 30 : solo 84, ast 42, tot 126, loss 35.5 sak 19, ff 3.
Travon Walker.
G 29 : solo 32, ast 29, tot 61, loss 13, sak 9.5, ff 1
George Karlaftis.
G 26 : solo 61, ast 36, tot 97, loss 29, sak 14, ff 3
Jermaine Johnson.
G 28 : solo 53, ast 53, tot 106, loss 24.5, sak 18, ff 3
Arnold Ebiketie.
G 28 : solo 75, ast 45, tot 120, loss 28, sak 15.5, ff 5
David Ojabo.
G 14 : solo 25, ast 11, tot 36, loss 12, sak 11, ff 5

Draw your own conclusions, but there is one hyper hyped prospect in this group that has the worst stats and for mine, does not warrant that hype.
Can you spot who it is?
So the dude nobody wants has the most sacks in less games than everybody? I don't have any inside sources, but I think Lovie see Thibs as Simien Rice.
 
Sam Williams
Games 35 : solo 76, ast 58, tot 134, loss 32.5, sak 22.5, ff 6

I like guys who hunt the ball, and Williams does that as well as anyone.

I would be very happy with Sauce at #3 Davis at #13 and Williams #37. Then draft all offense. I would even trade up for Salyer into the 2nd.

That's 4 difference makers. It may not be sexy but it would be a great foundational draft.
 
I would be very happy with Sauce at #3 Davis at #13 and Williams #37. Then draft all offense. I would even trade up for Salyer into the 2nd.

That's 4 difference makers. It may not be sexy but it would be a great foundational draft.
I can see why people like Walker, but much like Clowney, you draft a guy at 3 to put the qb on the ground, not just run stuff and get pressure. I don't see the closing burst of Walker. I think if you want him to play LDE to set the edge and get 6 sacks, then that's in his range. You just don't draft him at 3.
 
I can see why people like Walker, but much like Clowney, you draft a guy at 3 to put the qb on the ground, not just run stuff and get pressure. I don't see the closing burst of Walker. I think if you want him to play LDE to set the edge and get 6 sacks, then that's in his range. You just don't draft him at 3.

He got that in college playing inside.

BTW, My post said Sauce/Davis/Williams, I didn't mention Walker in that post.
 
I would be very happy with Sauce at #3 Davis at #13 and Williams #37. Then draft all offense. I would even trade up for Salyer into the 2nd.

That's 4 difference makers. It may not be sexy but it would be a great foundational draft.
The defence would receive a huge boost with those three and have a solid core for several seasons or until we can lock them into longer contracts.
After those three defenders, go O the next few picks. Around #80, Jamaree Salyer or Dylan Parham; #107 & 108 Justyn Ross WR or Tyler Algeier RB or trade up for John Metchie III ( I really like this kid).
That would give the O something to work with.
Once the higher picks are gone, in the lower rounds take the ones with best upside.
 
There's no predictor like stats.
Here are the top 7 De/Edge profiles:-
Aiden Hutchinson.
Games 36 : solo 85, ast 71, tot 156, loss 27.5, sak 17.5, ff 5.
Kayvon Thibodeaux.
G 30 : solo 84, ast 42, tot 126, loss 35.5 sak 19, ff 3.
Travon Walker.
G 29 : solo 32, ast 29, tot 61, loss 13, sak 9.5, ff 1
George Karlaftis.
G 26 : solo 61, ast 36, tot 97, loss 29, sak 14, ff 3
Jermaine Johnson.
G 28 : solo 53, ast 53, tot 106, loss 24.5, sak 18, ff 3
Arnold Ebiketie.
G 28 : solo 75, ast 45, tot 120, loss 28, sak 15.5, ff 5
David Ojabo.
G 14 : solo 25, ast 11, tot 36, loss 12, sak 11, ff 5

Draw your own conclusions, but there is one hyper hyped prospect in this group that has the worst stats and for mine, does not warrant that hype.
Can you spot who it is?

Whitney Mercilus
Games 37 : solo 40, ast 41, tot 81, loss 29, sak 18, ff 11.

Nick Bosa
Games 29 : solo 47, ast 30, tot 77, loss 29, sak 17.5, ff 2.

I don't know if we can use "production" as the end all be all. A major component, maybe.

I can understand the hype with Walker. If he's going to be used in a 4-3 I believe his NFL "production" will warrant a top 5 pick.

But whether I'm talking Aiden Hutchinson, or Nick Bosa, it's all projection.
 
Whitney Mercilus
Games 37 : solo 40, ast 41, tot 81, loss 29, sak 18, ff 11.

Nick Bosa
Games 29 : solo 47, ast 30, tot 77, loss 29, sak 17.5, ff 2.

I don't know if we can use "production" as the end all be all. A major component, maybe.

I can understand the hype with Walker. If he's going to be used in a 4-3 I believe his NFL "production" will warrant a top 5 pick.

But whether I'm talking Aiden Hutchinson, or Nick Bosa, it's all projection.
True, but he was also originally projected around the #45 mark - so what changed? He ran 40 yards a whole 2/10ths of a second faster than Hutchinson.🙄
To me, the ability to change direction quickly is of prime import for a Dlineman and that's one thing cone and shuttle drills are designed to demonstrate and stats bear out.
 
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True, but he was also originally projected around the #45 mark - so what changed? He ran 40 yards a whole 2/10ths of a second faster than Hutchinson.🙄
To me, the ability to change direction quickly is of prime import for a Dlineman and that's one thing cone and shuttle drills are designed to demonstrate and stats bear out.
At 45, that says that somebody saw something there.

Then when he performed well at the combine, it's saying there's a lot more there that Georgia didn't tap into.

If I were a 3-4 team, I still probably be more interested than #45.

But if I plan on putting him in a 4-3, I'm dreaming of all kinds of things. Kinda like NFL teams do for QBs. & it's the eye of the beholder that's important here.

You don't like him at #3... others posted the same. I understand. But I'm not going to be mad if the Texans get him with the #3 pick.
 
Whitney Mercilus
Games 37 : solo 40, ast 41, tot 81, loss 29, sak 18, ff 11.

Nick Bosa
Games 29 : solo 47, ast 30, tot 77, loss 29, sak 17.5, ff 2.

I don't know if we can use "production" as the end all be all. A major component, maybe.

I can understand the hype with Walker. If he's going to be used in a 4-3 I believe his NFL "production" will warrant a top 5 pick.

But whether I'm talking Aiden Hutchinson, or Nick Bosa, it's all projection.

I'm not clear on what you're illustrating here.
Bosa played in a significantly lower number of games with similar total stats??
 
At 45, that says that somebody saw something there.

Then when he performed well at the combine, it's saying there's a lot more there that Georgia didn't tap into.

If I were a 3-4 team, I still probably be more interested than #45.

But if I plan on putting him in a 4-3, I'm dreaming of all kinds of things. Kinda like NFL teams do for QBs. & it's the eye of the beholder that's important here.

You don't like him at #3... others posted the same. I understand. But I'm not going to be mad if the Texans get him with the #3 pick.
Here's a few draft grades from NFL com:
KH 6.88
AH 6.80
EN 6.76
KT 6.72
AG 6.72
TW 6.48
If Texans take him at #3, then he better hit - and I am not convinced he will - he's too much of a gamble.
 
Walker is the only 3-4 containment DE of all the players listed. Part of Walkers responsibilities in the Georgia D was not to allow the QB escape out of the pocket and to keep OL off of the LBs. The rest of the players on that list are 5 and 7 techniques. Not an apple-to-apple comparison. Like comparing LBs to safeties. Walker's stats are actually very good for an interior DL. Walker also lined up as the NT (Lined up on the Center) in passing downs when Jordan Davis was out and Jalen Carter came in. Walker would also drop into coverage. If Walker was a 5 and 7 technique and strictly attacked the QB like Hutchinson and Thibodeaux his sacks and pressures would be some of the best, even while playing on a team of all-stars. Walker had 6 sacks, Thibodeaux had 7. Walker's sacks came against Alabama, Michigan, Clemson and Auburn.

JJ Watt also played a 3 technique DE in a 3-4 system much like Walker played in and had 7 sacks in his last year. Once Watt was moved outside the OT, made a 5 technique and allowed to attack the football instead of containing and blocking the pocket he became a superstar and an MVP. JJ Watt is a phenomenal athlete, Walker is better. Don't forget how many Texans fans were disappointed when the Texans drafted JJ Watt.
 
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Walker is the only 3-4 containment DE of all the players listed. Part of Walkers responsibilities in the Georgia D was not to allow the QB escape out of the pocket and to keep OL off of the LBs. The rest of the players on that list are 5 and 7 techniques. Not an apple-to-apple comparison. Like comparing LBs to safeties. Walker's stats are actually very good for an interior DL. Walker also lined up as the NT (Lined up on the Center) in passing downs when Jordan Davis was out and Jalen Carter came in. Walker would also drop into coverage. If Walker was a 5 and 7 technique and strictly attacked the QB like Hutchinson and Thibodeaux his sacks and pressures would be some of the best, even while playing on a team of all-stars. Walker had 6 sacks, Thibodeaux had 7. Walker's sacks came against Alabama, Michigan, Clemson and Auburn.

JJ Watt also played a 3 technique DE in a 3-4 system much like Walker played in and had 7 sacks in his last year. Once Watt was moved outside the OT, made a 5 technique and allowed to attack the football instead of containing and blocking the pocket he became a superstar and an MVP. JJ Watt is a phenomenal athlete, Walker is better.
If if if...
If your aunty had nuts, she'd be your uncle.
If you draft Walker any higher than #6, he better hit and be a day 1 starter.
That's all I'm going to say.
 
Walker is the only 3-4 containment DE of all the players listed. Part of Walkers responsibilities in the Georgia D was not to allow the QB escape out of the pocket and to keep OL off of the LBs. The rest of the players on that list are 5 and 7 techniques. Not an apple-to-apple comparison. Like comparing LBs to safeties. Walker's stats are actually very good for an interior DL. Walker also lined up as the NT (Lined up on the Center) in passing downs when Jordan Davis was out and Jalen Carter came in. Walker would also drop into coverage. If Walker was a 5 and 7 technique and strictly attacked the QB like Hutchinson and Thibodeaux his sacks and pressures would be some of the best, even while playing on a team of all-stars. Walker had 6 sacks, Thibodeaux had 7. Walker's sacks came against Alabama, Michigan, Clemson and Auburn.

JJ Watt also played a 3 technique DE in a 3-4 system much like Walker played in and had 7 sacks in his last year. Once Watt was moved outside the OT, made a 5 technique and allowed to attack the football instead of containing and blocking the pocket he became a superstar and an MVP. JJ Watt is a phenomenal athlete, Walker is better. Don't forget how many Texans fans were disappointed when the Texans drafted JJ Watt.
I tend to disagree because he had problems disengaging from blocks and burst out of that. As stated before, to me he's a lde in a 4-3 who can get you 6-8 sacks. Thibs is a rde who can get you 12+ sacks and he's good at setting the edge.
 
I tend to disagree because he had problems disengaging from blocks and burst out of that. As stated before, to me he's a lde in a 4-3 who can get you 6-8 sacks. Thibs is a rde who can get you 12+ sacks and he's good at setting the edge.
Then why didn't Thibs get 12 instead of only 7. Thibs is a 3-4 OLB.
 
Then why didn't Thibs get 12 instead of only 7. Thibs is a 3-4 OLB.
He played on a bad ankle for one, not making excuses. Of course the line was turned to him because nobody else was forcing a turn. I got a question, how can someone playing with all that defensive talent only manage 6 sacks?
 
To be fair, a lot of media was caught up in the hype as well. I'm willing to say some teams, also.
Absolutely.
Sometimes I wonder if it's deliberate to push someone up the board to guarantee a better outcome for their draft.
 
He played on a bad ankle for one, not making excuses. Of course the line was turned to him because nobody else was forcing a turn. I got a question, how can someone playing with all that defensive talent only manage 6 sacks?
Glad you asked. When you look at a stat sheet it is very easy to assume someone is average if you don't understand how defenses really work. Take Thibodeaux and Hutchinson for example, they always are lined up in a 7 or 9 technique position. This means that they line up at least 1 or 2 full gaps away from the OT. They're not lined up with a player directly in front of them. This is considered being an edge rusher. There main responsibility is to rush the passer. Edge rushers should be the sack leaders on every stat sheet. That's their job.

Now take Travon Walker who played in Georgia's 3-4 defense. Walker was 3 or 4 technique DE. Walker usually lined up between the OG and OT or on the inside shoulder of the OT. He would also lineup on the OT outside shoulder. Walker was primarily responsible for setting the edge, not letting QBs and RBs get to the outside and turn the corner. Or as Bill Belichick would say, if you can't protect the edge you don't have a defense.

A perfect example of setting the edge is when LSU played Johnny Manziel and Texas A&M twice. At that time, Manziel was running around beating up teams with his great scrambling abilities (Still the most exciting college player I've watched). LSU beat Johnny Manziel twice because they were able to set the edge. Against LSU Manziel was never able to escape the pocket. LSU basically took away his magic wand. Georgia pretty much did the same thing to Alabama and was able to do the same thing to Bryce Young.

Walker was more of an edge setter than he was a pure pass rusher. On passing downs Walker would often line up as the NT in the 0 gap, right over the center. It was also not uncommon for Walker because of his great athleticism to drop back into pass coverage. So in essence, Hutchinson and Thibodeaux saw far more snaps as pure edge rushers compared to Walker who had far fewer. These are the same reasons why JJ Watt only had 7 sacks in his last year in Wisconsin.

You can tell the Georgia defensive players were not allowed to free lance and were strictly responsible for playing their assigned gap control. This was evident when DeVonte Wyatt tore it up, was unblockable and the star of Senior Bowl when they completely turned him loose. Before the Senior Bowl and Combine nobody knew who DeVonte Wyatt was. Now imagine if Walker was completely turned loose, lined up as 7 or 9 technique on every play with his sole responsibility to only rush the passer.
 
Or as Bill Belichick would say, if you can't protect the edge you don't have a defense.
This is the same reason it was "difficult" to evaluate how tweener DEs would translate to NFL 3-4 defenses. Jason Babin & Brooks Reed can rush the passer, but can they set the edge?

You see good production in college, in 4-3 defenses. But they're asked to do something totally different in the pros.

With Walker it's a move that is more in his favor. His athleticism will be more beneficial in a 4-3
 
This is the same reason it was "difficult" to evaluate how tweener DEs would translate to NFL 3-4 defenses. Jason Babin & Brooks Reed can rush the passer, but can they set the edge?

You see good production in college, in 4-3 defenses. But they're asked to do something totally different in the pros.

With Walker it's a move that is more in his favor. His athleticism will be more beneficial in a 4-3
Walker will be much more productive in the pros than he was in college. DCs will put a premium on Walker's athleticism and rushing the passer. Hutchinson will likely be less productive in the pros because of his arm length and footwork. The reason Texans OL coach George Warhop wants OT with 34" arms is to prevent DE's with long arms from getting inside the shoulders and gaining leverage. Kavon Thibodeaux, who knows, he comes with lots of hype, but he never had a season with double digit sacks. Thibodeaux also comes with a ME attitude.
 
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Walker will be much more productive in the pros than he was in college. DCs will put a premium on Walker's athleticism and rushing the passer. Hutchinson will likely be less productive in the pros because of his arm length and footwork. The reason Texans OL coach George Warhop wants OT with 34" arms is to prevent DE's with long arms from getting inside the shoulders and gaining leverage. Kavon Thibodeaux, who knows, he comes with lots of hype, but he never had a season with double digit sacks. Thibodeaux also comes with a ME attitude.
Can you say Travon Walker?
At least Thibodeaux has the runs on the board.
Kayvon Thibodeaux.
G 30 : solo 84, ast 42, tot 126, loss 35.5 sak 19, ff 3.
Travon Walker.
G 29 : solo 32, ast 29, tot 61, loss 13, sak 9.5, ff 1
 
Glad you asked. When you look at a stat sheet it is very easy to assume someone is average if you don't understand how defenses really work. Take Thibodeaux and Hutchinson for example, they always are lined up in a 7 or 9 technique position. This means that they line up at least 1 or 2 full gaps away from the OT. They're not lined up with a player directly in front of them. This is considered being an edge rusher. There main responsibility is to rush the passer. Edge rushers should be the sack leaders on every stat sheet. That's their job.

Now take Travon Walker who played in Georgia's 3-4 defense. Walker was 3 or 4 technique DE. Walker usually lined up between the OG and OT or on the inside shoulder of the OT. He would also lineup on the OT outside shoulder. Walker was primarily responsible for setting the edge, not letting QBs and RBs get to the outside and turn the corner. Or as Bill Belichick would say, if you can't protect the edge you don't have a defense.

A perfect example of setting the edge is when LSU played Johnny Manziel and Texas A&M twice. At that time, Manziel was running around beating up teams with his great scrambling abilities (Still the most exciting college player I've watched). LSU beat Johnny Manziel twice because they were able to set the edge. Against LSU Manziel was never able to escape the pocket. LSU basically took away his magic wand. Georgia pretty much did the same thing to Alabama and was able to do the same thing to Bryce Young.

Walker was more of an edge setter than he was a pure pass rusher. On passing downs Walker would often line up as the NT in the 0 gap, right over the center. It was also not uncommon for Walker because of his great athleticism to drop back into pass coverage. So in essence, Hutchinson and Thibodeaux saw far more snaps as pure edge rushers compared to Walker who had far fewer. These are the same reasons why JJ Watt only had 7 sacks in his last year in Wisconsin.

You can tell the Georgia defensive players were not allowed to free lance and were strictly responsible for playing their assigned gap control. This was evident when DeVonte Wyatt tore it up, was unblockable and the star of Senior Bowl when they completely turned him loose. Before the Senior Bowl and Combine nobody knew who DeVonte Wyatt was. Now imagine if Walker was completely turned loose, lined up as 7 or 9 technique on every play with his sole responsibility to only rush the passer.
Stay in the box please. When I watched Walker, he also stood up outside the edge and rushed the passer. He's a good striker, bur he can't or doesn't shed and stack. He will engage and stay engaged. Coaches will say you can coach this up. To me, he looks like and plays like a lde or a 3 tech with a few more pounds added. He's not a rde rush at all which is what you draft when you're drafting that high. This is a passing league and getting to the qb is at a premium. Georgia has all those nfl talents on their defense, I would expect more production from that spot. Kirby is off Saban tree correct? There isn't freestyling in Sabans defense either, yet we always see and edge guy who explodes and produces. I'm not saying Walker won't be a good foorball player, I'm simply stating that a guy taken that high needs to have the ability to get the qb on the ground consistently.
 
Can you say Travon Walker?
At least Thibodeaux has the runs on the board.
Kayvon Thibodeaux.
G 30 : solo 84, ast 42, tot 126, loss 35.5 sak 19, ff 3.
Travon Walker.
G 29 : solo 32, ast 29, tot 61, loss 13, sak 9.5, ff 1
Its amazing how just on sheer numbers Thibs is far superior to Walker. 1 less game and he also played with a bad ankle and still outperformed Walker
 
Can you say Travon Walker?
At least Thibodeaux has the runs on the board.
Kayvon Thibodeaux.
G 30 : solo 84, ast 42, tot 126, loss 35.5 sak 19, ff 3.
Travon Walker.
G 29 : solo 32, ast 29, tot 61, loss 13, sak 9.5, ff 1
Some people understand the difference between a 3-4 defense and 4-3 defense and some people don't.

Some people understand the difference between a 3 technique DE and a 7 or 9 technique DE/OLB and some people don't.

Some people understand the difference between setting the edge and rushing the passer and some people don't.
 
Some people understand the difference between a 3-4 defense and 4-3 defense and some people don't.

Some people understand the difference between a 3 technique DE and a 7 or 9 technique DE/OLB and some people don't.

Some people understand the difference between setting the edge and rushing the passer and some people don't.
Some people understand draft grades and rankings, and some people don't.
 
Some people understand the difference between a 3-4 defense and 4-3 defense and some people don't.

Some people understand the difference between a 3 technique DE and a 7 or 9 technique DE/OLB and some people don't.

Some people understand the difference between setting the edge and rushing the passer and some people don't.
Just say you think Walker is a better prospect, thats it and its your opinion. Just Bortles and Wentz, you can be right or wrong, but you're using you opinion like everyone else. Its cool
 
Just say you think Walker is a better prospect, thats it and its your opinion. Just Bortles and Wentz, you can be right or wrong, but you're using you opinion like everyone else. Its cool
You asked me the question, I just answered. I do answer question the way I see it, not how the person asking the questions wants me to answer their question. It's been fun bantering with the Brigade trolls but it is now time to set the edge and put the trolls back in the box. So I'll leave you with this little puzzle, Georgia had the #1 Defense only giving up 13 TDs and yet they only had 1 player, Robert Beal ranked in the top 150 in Sacks. Go figure.
 
You asked me the question, I just answered. I do answer question the way I see it, not how the person asking the questions wants me to answer their question. It's been fun bantering with the Brigade trolls but it is now time to set the edge and put the trolls back in the box. So I'll leave you with this little puzzle, Georgia had the #1 Defense only giving up 13 TDs and yet they only had 1 player, Robert Beal ranked in the top 150 in Sacks. Go figure.
Once they got the game lopsided, like they did most games, they just ran the air out of the ball. Without looking it up, I think they led the nation in t.o.p. So if you're trying to tie that in with production, I gotcha. I'm simply stating what I see when I watch him play regardless of scheme.
 
You asked me the question, I just answered. I do answer question the way I see it, not how the person asking the questions wants me to answer their question. It's been fun bantering with the Brigade trolls but it is now time to set the edge and put the trolls back in the box. So I'll leave you with this little puzzle, Georgia had the #1 Defense only giving up 13 TDs and yet they only had 1 player, Robert Beal ranked in the top 150 in Sacks. Go figure.

Yep, a truly great defense.

BTW, people will see how great Carter and Beal look next year on the Georgia defense. Those guys are studs too.
 
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